Words of Power - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

  • CursedParrot's Avatar
    640 718 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Thank you all for the feedback! I think I got too carried away on the idea of making minions that stuck around and had a mini-quest attached to them that I ended up making an overly complex keyword. Here's my next idea that should be a lot simpler:

    Maddened: This can't attack on your turn. At the start of the opponent's turn, they choose a valid target for this to attack.

    I think that Maddened as a mechanic is pretty cool because of how it encourages counterplay and can be used as both a buff and a debuff. Maddened minions attack at the start of the next turn, which essentially gives them a worse version of Rush (or charge if the opponent's board is empty, similarly to how Gnome Muncher works). However, the opponent can play around this by playing either small minions to waste the Maddened attacks or large minions to make unfavorable trades for you. This mechanic would be introduced in an expansion centered around the Old Gods and the forces fighting against them, this time with more of a focus on the elements of mind corruption, which maddened plays into very well. Yogg-Saron, Lord of Insanity exemplifies this theme through giving you Mad Whispers to either drive your own minions insane for a pseudo-rush effect, or giving enemy minions Maddened to force their next attack to target what you want it to (making it a pseudo-silence). My worry is that the card effect might be too weak and that Yogg'Saron itself isn't very flashy, so let me know if you have ideas to fix that problem without using too much card text. Corrupted Ogre is another play on the Maddened mechanic in that it serves as a sticky board-control tool that forces your opponent to trade it into their minions since it can't go face (but it also becomes useless if the opponent has no minions). Maddened Outcast uses the mechanic mainly as a debuff to lock down threatening enemy minions as long as you can keep a few tokens around. He can also be played on an empty board as a 3/2 with pseudo-charge.

    What do y'all think of this design? I think it's a lot simpler but it is still somewhat complex and unprecedented since it forces an action on your opponent's turn, but I think it's a plausible keyword in modern Hearthstone and is relatively intuitive (basically the opponent is in charge of the minion's attacks, not you).

    Also, I'll give feedback later today when I have time :)

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 610 690 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    I'm still not sure which keyword I'll go with, but I've updated Deputy Instructor to fit the criteria, as you guys pointed out.


    Feedback + tooltips for those who don't have one:

    linkblade91
    It's a shame you can't submit Burden, because it's absolutely brilliant (I remember it from years ago, btw). I don't like the other two 

    Among your other ideas, I think I prefer Encore. My main issue is the fact you have to submit several cards of the same class to showcase how it would play out, but that also makes it so that we can't see what other classes would do. If you end up going with it, change E.T.C by another card, since they've just announced another version of this character (I don't mind the overlap of expansion themes too much, but another E.T.C. is where I draw the line).

    Launch seems to be the preferred option, and I also like it. I agree with Anchorman that Booster Rocket would be more interesting in Rogue (also, it's kinda like a Sap effect, so it still makes sense for the class).

    Demonxz95
    A pretty cool twist on the Quest formula.

    Among your cards, I think Assemble an Army is my least favorite card, but all four are solid.

    anchorm4n
    The theme of the expansion is very strong, but I'm not a fan of the keyword itself, as needing a minion to survive several turns is very unreliable.

    I'd probably make it like a Battlecry that happens some turns later. This would work very well with all your cards except The Prismatic Disk, but you can always change its effect.

    AeroJulwin
    Now that they've introduced Overheal, Scrap feels like something we might get in the future.

    I'm a pretty big fan of the mechanic itself, and both Law of Equivalent Exchange and Oddity Trader are very interesting uses of it (Unstable Void is also good, but not as creative).

    My main advice is to use different watermarks to showcase it being evergreen, like Overheal. Of course, LoEE needs to keep the Alchemy watermark, but the other two cards can use different ones.

    Also, here's your tooltip :)

    Dolphinslayer
    I don't know, I think it's a pretty solid keyword. I like the effect of both cards. My main issue would be the art, as the draenei in the Priest card is clearly an Arcane Mage and the Mage card doesn't have a very hearthstone style (also, it feels pretty complex for a common).

    Your tooltip:

    Matthieu
    Welcome abroad!

    The effect is pretty cool, but I'd probably change the name, as the new expansion just introduced Harmonic spells, which are a totally different thing.

    Deja Vu is a very natural name for such an effect, but you can use Chorus or something similar if you want to keep the music theme. I'd probably go with Deja Vu (which would need to completely change the flavor and art of Pogo-Hip-Hopper, but the other two cards just need a change of name).

    CursedParrot
    Maddened is interesting, as we've never had a negative keyword, but it's too wordy right now. Also, your Yogg can't participate because it uses token cards, which is a shame because it's the best card. 

    Like other people, I'm not a fan of Fatal Flaw.

    Here are your tooltips:

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator 1670 2466 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    I adjusted Booster Rocket, and (finally) created an account so I could make the Launch tooltip. Question is: which one?

    The first one is my original iteration, and the second is based on Dolphinslayer's feedback (still within two lines of text, too :P). There's some overlap, but ultimately they carve out different design spaces; I can see pros and cons for either one:

    • First-Launch is less flexible, but perhaps in a good way. Later in the game, Unspent-Launch could be triggered with little consequence.
    • Unspent-Launch, early on, demands the cards be played off-curve. This could balance cards from being too good if they're the only card you planned to play that turn anyway.
    • Unspent-Launch lets you play multiple Launch cards in a turn, whereas there can only be one First-Launch. That makes First-Launch more impactful, both gameplay-wise and in terms of flavor. Unspent-Launch is diluted.
    • I'm struggling to define why Unspent-Launch is called "Launch". A launch is the beginning of a rocket's takeoff; First-Launch makes narrative sense to me, while Unspent-Launch does not (currently).

    Edit: Typing that out, it sounds like I want to go with First-Launch. I always struggle with this part; the deciding :/

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Almaniarra's Avatar
    Devoted Outlander 900 1353 Posts Joined 03/21/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Hello after a long time. I wanted to use one of my former keyword Bleed (x) with with a change.

    I changed it to Infect(X) since we have the actual effect in the game right now for Death Knight. So here it comes;

    Infect(x) isn't a keyword only for death knights tho. You can see that on Shaman, Rogue, Demon Hunter, Warlock and Druid too. Shamans and Druids can use it with their nature magic, Rogues can reach that word with their oils for their weapon and Warlocks and Demon Hunters can use fel to infect their opponents.

    I edited the existing cards Alexandros Mograine and Blood Boil like this;

    but they won't be my entries since it would not be creative. Here my entries come;

    Information on Plague Sprout ; it can only increase once. I mean it won't deal 3 damage after it increases to 2. Using the spell twice deals 1 damage and then other 1 damage and when it is increased, 2 damage and then 2 damage like how fatigue damage deals in an order. Using the spell twice in a turn won't make it increase on 4 turns instead of 8 turns and using the spell twice won't increase the damage to 3 by that what i mean is, each spell's damage is its own. if you use one on turn 4 and the other on turn 12 for example, first one will deal 2 damage and the second will deal 1 damage until it increases in 8 turns.

    Edit: Changed the wording on Apocalypse.

    Edit 2: I've created more cards to show how it can be on other type of cards like minions, weapons, spells and locations. Help me decide to choose for competition please. :)

    Edit: 3: Added runes to Fink Ployd.

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  • AeroJulwin's Avatar
    Fan Creator 305 174 Posts Joined 07/08/2021
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Quote From Dolphinslayer
    The way that a lot of the cards are worded, would the "third" option of the two be to decide not to scrap a card?

    Yes. I mentioned it in the text, but that's easy to miss in the absolute textwall that this week's thread has become. I was planning on either adding it to the tooltip or mentioning it in the description.

    Quote From anchorm4n
    I have only one thing to criticize: I don't like the third option. It's a very cool effect, but I think the power level should be toned down a bit by forcing the player to discard one of the two cards. That way, it's still better than most current discard effects, but it's still a little risky to play them.

    That's fair. Scrap doesn't quite have the risk of discarding random cards, unless you really need that extra effect like the second destroy from Unstable Void. But I personally really like the versatility of it. It creates a bit of strategy, which I always love to see on cards. Besides, otherwise it wouldn't really warrant bring a full keyword anymore.

     

    Feedback:

    linkblade
    I'm a fan of Storm. I do think the tooltip should clarify when you pay the alternative cost. If I play the card with enough mana crystals, does it automatically upgrade or does it function like Choose One?

    This might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm not a big fan of both Encore and Launch. Encore cards are only strong if you have another one ready to be played. They will reach maximum strength if you have as many in your deck as possible, meaning that's what they'll be balanced around and won't be very worthwhile outside of that scenario.

    Launch is just another battlecry but with a minor requirement, which we literally just got another one of. I can still be convinced, but you'll need to design a card that would be specifically interesting if it can't be played after any other cards.

    Demon
    I like Objective, but I do agree about it impeding on Sidequest. And I think it needs a different name (probably something related to quests) considering objective spells are already a thing. I think the Warrior one is probably the least interesting of the four.

    Wailor
    I think I like Gunslinger better. I do agree a different name would be better to free up design space and because many minions with guns wouldn't have this.

    anchorm4n
    I'm afraid I agree that effects that rely on a minion to survive one or even multiple turns are simply too unreliable to make for an interesting keyword. And The Prismatic Disc shows the rider fully, but very little of the mount.

    Dolphinslayer
    I like the effect, although for some reason it feels a little weird to me that it also duplicates minions (instead of only the effects).

    I'm not a big fan of Escalating Missile. It deals a lot of damage, so it should probably be rebalanced or at least not be able to hit the enemy hero. And the fact that it has a whole secondary effect just to deal a single damage more feels very insignificant. Maybe it could start lower and increase every time the effect is triggered? That would also work well with Mage since they can possibly discover another copy of it.

    Matthieu
    I'm a big fan of the keyword. It has a lot of potential, but I think the cards aren't executed very well. The Druid one becomes very powerful and you'd expect Nature spells to fit Harmony better since Druid has more ways of generating those. Pogo-Hip-Hopper's Harmony effect is way too easy to trigger and doesn't infinitely upgrade like Pogo-Hopper which is slightly disappointing. And the Mage card is a two-turn OTK. I also don't think Blizzard would print a Legendary with Harmony unless it's a Rogue card or duplicates itself, because copying/bouncing minions is way too specific.

    CursedParrot
    Fatal Flaw is a little more out there, so I don't know how the general audience will respond, but I think it's pretty cool. Especially Boom's Flawless Creation. But I think the other two cards aren't very well executed. As mentioned, Millhouse is probably a little too sticky. And I don't like Peerless Hero, first of all because it literally gives your opponent the means of getting rid of it and secondly, because said means is cheaper than the minion itself. Sure, you also get a Holy Smite, but you still pay 1 more Mana than your opponent so Peerless Hero looks more like a 2-Cost Neutral Holy Smite to me.

    Maddened is also quite interesting and I like the cards you made for it. But there's indeed only room for 4 images in a submission so tokens will be a no-go this week.

    Almaniarra
    Infect should probably exclude heroes the same way poisonous does, because you're severely limiting your own design space here. The cards you made for it are interesting, but I'm not sure how well they would perform, since you generally don't want to wait a turn for a minion to die. Blood Boil is the only card like this they printed so far and that one functions more as an AOE where if the surviving targets attack your hero that will simply guarantee your hero will get some health back.

    And keep in mind that Blightfang, which is half of the existing infect cards, has its infection effect trigger when the targets die.

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  • Almaniarra's Avatar
    Devoted Outlander 900 1353 Posts Joined 03/21/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From AeroJulwin

    Almaniarra
    Infect should probably exclude heroes the same way poisonous does, because you're severely limiting your own design space here. The cards you made for it are interesting, but I'm not sure how well they would perform, since you generally don't want to wait a turn for a minion to die. Blood Boil is the only card like this they printed so far and that one functions more as an AOE where if the surviving targets attack your hero that will simply guarantee your hero will get some health back.

    And keep in mind that Blightfang, which is half of the existing infect cards, has its infection effect trigger when the targets die.

    Well, actually i have something like these in my mind too but i didn't add them just because of the rules since they don't have the actual keyword.

    (I had to do this. :) )

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar
    640 718 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    Demonxz95: I think that objectives are pretty cool, they open up the ability to play the card flexibly early or late game. It does kind of limit card text space but I think you did well in terms of making the effects still feel interesting (the boarclear especially is really cool). The Demon Hunter one does kind of bore me since it's just drawing cards to get some units, maybe making it work on something different like Outcast could be cool?

    Wailor: I prefer transmute, I think it's just a really cool keyword and opens up a lot of possible designs. As for the designs themselves, I think Chimera is really cool but I'm on the fence about the others. Maybe something that cares more about the card it's transmuting could be cool (Like, for example, a card that transmutes a minion in hand into one with more/less Attack). Also, you should specify whether it is random or targetted (Ratsearcher should either say random or have some specification like Discover or "your leftmost minion in hand")

    linkblade91: I like your keyword since it allows for cool and unique chains, but I think that Electric Soloist and ETC aren't great uses of it since the effect doesn't change based on which minion does the Encore. I think things like "Encore: Attack the lowest-health enemy" or "Encore: Destroy this minion and give its stats and keywords to a random adjacent minion" would lead to more interesting play patterns.

    anchorm4n: I think that Stamina is a bit of a doomed keyword since it's so hard to keep units on board in HS (think of how often Inspire cards triggered more than once). You seem to be aware of this in that you made them very low Stamina requirement cards, but that makes them very similar to a start of turn effect. That said your designs specifically are really good and balanced so I think you could submit it anyway but if you have other ideas those might be worth thinking about.

    AeroJulwin: Scrap feels a little too basic for me to go for it but I tend to make overly complex designs so take that with a grain of salt. 

    Dolphinslayer: Duplicate feels like a pretty solid design, you just need to think of a third card that makes cool use of the effect. I think Spell Damage sounds useful so maybe a balanced version of that scrapped card could work.

    linkblade91: I like Launch as a keyword but your cards specifically (except Krazzle) feel a little too much like battlecries to me. I think if you design some cards that you don't want to play as your first card (like how Finale is put on card generation) would make it feel more mechanically distinct.

    Almaniarra: I like the keyword but the card text around whether something is infected or applies "infect" is unclear (for example, you Infect a minion but you also give your weapon infect to make it infect other characters).

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 610 690 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    I'll probably go with Gunslinger, as it's the generally preferred option. People seem to be very divided regarding its flavor, so here are two alternate names for it:

    Quick Draw is a middle ground that keeps some wild west flavor while also being more generic than Gunslinger.

    Swift, on the other hand, goes all the way in the flavor-agnostic direction.

    Keep in mind I still plan for all the cards to be wild west themed (I designed it as an expansion exclusive keyword, after all)

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar
    640 718 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Based on feedback, I've changed the Maddened Keyword to:

    Maddened: When this attacks, the opponent chooses the target at the start of their turn.

    The major mechnical difference is that this version of Maddened does not give the minion pseudo-rush, freezing a Maddened character stops it from attacking, and the player in control of the Maddened character can choose whether or not to make it attack (when you attack with a Maddened character you choose the target, then the minion stops mid-attack and the opponent chooses the target at the start of their turn before drawing a card or taking any actions).

    I redesigned Yogg-Saron to not need tokens, I think it's a cool design but I'm on the fence about whether it is worth including. Vicious Basilisk are a play on a corrupted version of Stoneskin Basilisk and Ogre Magi, like how Whispers of the Old Gods had corrupted versions of older cards. Xal'atath was my idea for a Maddened Weapon, in this case it gives Shadow Priest a lot of healing and damage, but the opponent can play around it by keeping small minions on the board to force Xal'atath to attack into. I worry that Maddened might make it a bit weak but I think with 2 or 3 Attack it becomes worth it just for incremental board control and healing. Flavor-wise Chromie provides an alternate version of the Anachronos effect as she is a time dragon corrupted by the Old Gods, while Samuro has the same stats as the original Samuro (with the same handbuff synergy) but is much weaker and more balanced because the opponent can make it hit only 2 minions.

    Which 3 of these cards do you think make the best use of the keyword? Any balance changes I should make?

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 610 690 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    I ended up going with Gunslinger. Sadly, I couldn't implement most of the feedback you guys gave, as I don't have much time this week.

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  • BasilAnguis's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 825 405 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Hey everyone, i'm super late this week D:

    A new keyword for hunter! Lean in more in the Hunter fantasy by gaining bonuses for successfully hunting something in a turn!

    • Reptile Fetcher - Functionally a 2 mana 4/3 if you can activate Predator. Of course you can hit something else of higher priority other than the Crocolisk. The purpose of the card is to also offer you something to hunt in the case the enemy has no minions. The crocolisk is just the vanilla 2/3 one, hope it's clear enough that it doesn't need a token.
    • Night Hunt - Hit and track your prey! A little less efficient damage/mana value but the Rush carries over to the next turn allowing you to play a Beast and attack right away to trigger another Predator next turn.
    • Cobraptor - Very proud of the name first of all lol. But the card is similar in that it promotes beast play and hunting fantasy. You select your mark and sick your pet onto it next turn, hopefully killing it for Predator. If you are already in a chain of kills you can make killing the cobraptor super hard with stealth. He's beefy enough to benefit from Night Hunt too, possibly taking down 2 to 3 targets even.

    I'll boop you 

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar
    The Cake Is A Lie 1780 2052 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    I love it, especially the Cobraptor is amazing! 

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad 2200 2409 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    You have just a little under 7 hours to submit. I didn't really get a time to post the 24-hour reminder because of how the reveal season started and that just sort of took all of my active mind space at the time. I also didn't really have any time to possibly get another keyword in.

    Last-minute feedback that hopefully you guys will be able to read.

    CursedParrot
    I'm afraid I don't really like Maddened. It feels like it goes too much against the way Hearthstone typically works.

    Almaniarra
    Infect is a fine mechanic, but the way it's written on the cards is sometimes a little bit weird (particularly on Plaguelands for example). Aside from the cards that can affect heroes, it does also feel a bit derivate of Poisonous. Some of your support cards are pretty cool (even if you can't use them).

    Wailor

    I realize that you've already submitted with Gunslinger, so this doesn't really help much… but out of those two, I prefer Quick-Draw if you to keep the mechanic strictly wild west themed.

    And good call on giving Deputy Instructor the mechanic proper.

    BasilAnguis

    Predator is definitely one of the better keywords I've seen.

    Although it's not entirely clear if Night Hunt will trigger itself or not. In other words, if Night Hunt is the first card to kill a minion that turn, will it trigger its own Predator effect? If not, then the tooltip should probably be reworded as "A bonus if an enemy minion has previously died this turn".

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator 1670 2466 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Good luck to everyone in the voting!

    Been a little busy so you might have noticed I submitted my Launch early (and didn't provide much feedback *cough*). Not feeling confident in my stuff, again; definitely think there was room there to improve, but there's always next week.

    We're beyond the half-way point for the Season D:

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator 1670 2466 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    Good luck to our finalists!

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator 1670 2466 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    Congratulations to Wassculaire! Now I'm bummed I didn't submit my Time Pirate's Pillage keyword, which was basically the same thing lol :P

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 610 690 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    Congrats, Wassculaire!

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar
    The Cake Is A Lie 1780 2052 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    Congrats, Wassculaire! 

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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