I think the new Tortolian Mage combo with potion of illusions is totally broken. Not because it is incredibly strong but just because when you manage to pull out the combo (which comes out that it's surprisingly easy) it is totally uninteractive for your opponent.
For those who doesn't know the combo you drop tortolian and get copies with potion of illusion then drop 1 cost tortolians to freeze the enemy board turn after turn while you slowly kill your opponent and he has nothing to do than just pass turn
This deck is quite unknown for the people and a bit tricky to pilot but when it becomes popular the meta will be trash
Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).
I just wanted to echo how bad this feels to play against…and the emoting that comes after makes it all the saltier, haha
But beyond the gut punch, I just don't believe that a single card should be able to completely disrupt an entire archetype (Combo/OTK), especially when that archetype is a counter to what the class typically likes to do (play Control). I'm not against disruption cards in general, but this one seems too strong/guaranteed.
Thinking of nerfs, I agree that an increase in cost is most likely, but personally I'd like something different. I feel that there needs to be more of a way to play around this card as an opponent. So maybe the nerf could be that you only swap 4 or 5 cards from hand, randomly chosen, along with swapping decks. This way Combo decks could at least add some RNG into the equation by keeping their hand full, but it would come at a cost that would benefit Priests (in terms of losing tempo and/or having to add more card draw to the deck). Alternatively, you could add restrictions on the other end such as swapping only the number of cards that the Priest has in hand.
The problem is that cards like this are necessary unless we want T5 to just lay the nerf/ban hammer hard on combo/otk decks. Even if a combo isn't T0 or even T1 there usually ends up being a lot of uproar that eventually rises from the community. If T5 hasn't already produced a semi-consistent counter card to fight against it then T5 usually will cave to the vocal minority and severely weaken, or even kill, the combo (e.g. Grim Patron, Raging Worgen, Star Aligner, etc). At least with allowing these cards to exist it means T5 is less likely to kill modern combo decks. You have to carefully pick your poison if you want to be able to play the decks you enjoy (this is coming from a heavy wild combo/otk main btw).
Also, in wild otks are a bit ridiculous with 2 decks able to consistently kill you on turns 8 or 9 if you're a control main. While I always stand by the holy trinity of rock-paper-scissors I don't feel us otk players should consistently be able to win against control before turn 10. OTKs aren't meant to function that way. So in wild Illucia actually makes it possible to not insta concede as control if you go against Quest Mage or Mech'athun Lock.
Problem is Mindrender Illucia does much more than giving Control a tip against Combo, as you can steal finishers or key cards from ANY deck you find.
Also, at the moment Illucia is not just giving a chance, she's granting you the power to tear apart any deck based on some key cards, given the right moment to play her.
Mechathunlock almost out of cards > Mindrender Illucia > game over. That's more than just a chance at it.
You could even counter QMage, either stealing their reward, or, in case they are holding the completion, stealing their spell turn right before they are ready to resolve.
Same goes against Druid (steal spells) or any other deck with key cards in hand. Including Aggro, just to say. That's Dirty Rat on steroids.
All of a sudden a Control deck has virtually no vulnerability in the metagame.
If OTK are ridiculous because they can kick in too soon (ie QMage or Druid), then they do deserve a nerf, not a card that can counter anything consistently enough.
I get what you're saying. The issue though is how counter cards are designed in the first place. Hearthstone in general is very bad about creating counter tech cards because in probably over 80% of cards the tech is a coin flip that just wins a game when you play it if you win the coin flip of drawing it. For example, Geist just wins the game against Jade Druid and a handful of OTK decks if the opponent wins the coin flip of drawing it. Dirty Rat (often claimed as a well designed tech by some) is actually just at terrible coin flip 'I-win button'. You either hit 1-2 minions (if comboed with Brann) and you win, or you don't and you lose. Sure, hand reading and timing created a type of skill ceiling for the tech card where more experienced players had higher frequencies of using it to win against OTK, but at the end of the day it still was a polarizing tech where you win with result A and lose with result B. Other techs, not against OTK, could include the anti-murloc/pirate crabs. You drew them early against a murloc or pirate deck and significantly skyrocketed whether you won, or didn't draw them and your chance of winning was significantly plummeted. I do agree that Illucia is also one of these types of coin flip/polarizing 'I-win button' cards.
The problem lies with T5 not creating what I would call 'smart' tech cards, counters that don't instantly win or lose you the game based on a coin flip or good hit and instead create a temporary disruption or extra time that could influence a win/loss for either play across multiple turns. A great example of a smart tech card is Mojomaster Zihi. Zihi, when played against something like Mecha'Thun Lock, is not an instant win for the opponent while also still allowing the warlock a chance to fight for the win, assuming they didn't expend removal or healing that they may have otherwise been able to save in their hand until they got back up to 10 mana. Glide or the new DH legendary are also smart tech cards. They do not destroy anything in the hand, but require the opponent to delay combo setup and to draw the card(s) again. Sadly though T5 mainly prints cards that are niche specific against one or two decks and that essentially make a win or loss for or against the combo player based on the result of a random outcome (like Rat or drawing Mindrender Illucia vs not drawing her).
Although, like I said in my previous post, if strong tech cards against combo don't exist in a meta then T5 is very likely to just kill the deck, which I find is even worse than having an OP tech card against my favorite combo/OTK deck. While I don't like wins & loses turned into a coin toss of polarizing tech cards I'd rather at least be able to play my combo/OTK deck without it getting the Grim Patron/Raging Worgen/Star Aligner treatment.
Hi Lyra, sorry for the long delay as I'm not used to getting responses ;P and haven't been on OOC as much the past couple months since getting burnt out on HS (and Destiny 2). But I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write such thoughtful responses while also engaging with RavenSun.
When it comes to general philosophies, I think we're on the same page in terms of the need for good combo disruption tools and a preference for the sorts of "smart" tech cards that you outlined (I really liked this distinction!). I just think that, in the specific case of Mindrender Illucia, the card either needs to be nerfed or converted into a "smart" option that doesn't win or lose the game if drawn/not drawn. And again, my claim isn't coming from a place of "Illucia is too meta-defining!" but rather that, for me personally, "Illucia is too feelsbadman" for an entire archetype that counters Control Priest.
We may still disagree, but my best guess is that that's due to: 1) Me coming from the perspective of Standard as opposed to WIld; and/or 2) The fact that I don't play T1 OTK decks so I'm more in favor of both the OP OTK decks getting weakened and the OP counter cards getting weakened (as RavenSun preferred).
Regarding #1 - I hadn't considered your arguments about how strong Wild OTK decks are at the moment, but this leads me to wanting separate balancing for both Standard and Wild as opposed to allowing cards that are balanced in Wild to dominate in Standard. So when you unpack Illucia, why not give 2 versions of the card that only work in their respective mode with the Standard version being retired/folded into the Wild version when it rotates? I know this would be harder in terms of coding and player confusion, but from a game balancing perspective I don't see why we don't have separate sandboxes.
Regarding #2 - This is just my opinion and I don't believe it should be imposed on others, but my ideal meta always includes OTK decks as a viable strategy, but they rarely rise to the ranks of T1 or T0 given how tilting they can be for the vocal minority that you mentioned in your original post (I feel the same way about Casino builds). So I've been on board with the nerfs, in Standard, to some of the old Malygos Druid decks that seemed OP, but I would've pushed back against nerfs to slower or less consistent OTK decks like when some of the Shirvallah OTK Pallys were meta-viable.
Lastly, I just wanted to leave a comment about Neutral Legendaries. It's obvious that neutral cards can only be as strong as they perform in the classes for which they have the most synergies. However, I find it frustrating when a card like Kael'thas Sunstrider performs so much better in certain classes that when it's nerfed it's no longer viable in any other classes than the originally OP ones. E.g., I'd argue that Kael'thas is extremetely fair at 7-mana in Hunter, and was borderline fair at 6-mana, but going any higher will kill it completely. So instead of a one-size-fits-all nerf to Kael'thas again, why not print multiple versions with different mana costs or abilities (e.g., only one 0-cost spell vs. a new 0-cost spell every 3 spells) like they did with all of the different versions of Galakrond? Or you could make it simpler with 3 versions (1 quad-class and 2 tri-class)...
Problem with multiple versions of cards is it multiplies the amount of work to design and keep them in check. Different versions of the same card are effectively different cards. They just can't do it.
About KT, while it is true that currently only Druid can effectively abuse it, it may not be the case forever (ie Shaman starts to gather interesting synergies).
Either way the real problem of KT is the discount to (0). He should discount to (1), and probably only one spell per turn. I don't even understand why they nerfed his base cost instead of his discount. It was obvious the problem would repeat, especially with printing even more (broken) Ramp cards...
So after grinding my ass off trying to break into Legend with Priest this season, I finally cracked, waved it goodbye and switched to Odd Warrior, which got me there in like 8 games (compared to Priest which has been going 50/50 for me for 3 days now). Here are my candidates for what needs fixing, in no particular order:
1) Kael'thas Sunstrider. Combos are fine. Combos that end you turn 7-8 are not. One of the reasons I gave up on the Priest, despite the deck running Mindrender Illucia AND Dirty Rat, was that in the 10 or so games I queued up against OTK, I never ever drew either of them. Obviously, that's RNG for you. The issue is there's just so little time to draw those answers. If you don't get them in your top half of the deck, you're done. And the main culprit is Kael'thas. The Mechathun combo itself shouldn't even be possible, because there is no reason for Kael'thas to count how many spells have been played when he's not even on the board. Kael should work like Chenvaala or Dragon Soul: only count down while in play. So if a Druid Biology Projects + Lightning Blooms him out, they still have to play 3 spells to trigger him. And Mechathun doesn't get to do its bullshit at all in this manner. There are other ways to pull the combo off if you're that into it. The fact that the nerf to Bloodbloom actually made the deck better is outrageous (though obviously, that was not the target for the nerf). Also, obviously, Kael's effect should work only once a turn. Do that, and he's a perfectly fine card. Hell, you could probably unnerf him to 6.
2) Gibberling: Knew it when that card was revealed, there's no way this thing can stay the way it is. Even nerfing it to two mana is too little I think. Druids are currently perfectly capable of essentially sealing the game turn 3, especially if going second. You could say that's a bit of a highroll, but it's been happening with astonishing consistency in my experience. And the worst part is, there is essentially nothing that clears those boards. Not even Warrior or Priest or Mage has a way to clear a board of double-buffed Gibberlings on turn 3, yet that's exactly what the deck's gameplan is. And that's just not on.
3) Suicide Warlock: Not sure which card exactly to target there. Maybe it's Darkglare, cause even if you nerf the Flesh Giant, Molten Giant still does the same thing to you. Granted, I've only played against the deck a handful of times, but every time it ended the same: Turn 5, there's 32 damage on the board and all my answers have been Loatheb'd. The deck should not be able to tank its health this fast, draw almost everything in its deck and do so for 0 mana, and it's Darkglare that's the enabler for all of it. Darkglare and Raise Dead providing you a free unnerfed innervate plus extra self damage + card draw off the [Hearthstone Card (Raise Deads) Not Found] to just keep going can't stay the way it is. Midrange decks already essentially don't exist in Wild, and if a Warlock can polish off a game by turn 5, it's no wonder that's going to stay the case. Hell, even the hated Demon Hunters can't get a word in in this meta, cause between Suicide Lock, Discard Lock and Token Druid, they're too slow. DH...too slow. What in the world?
4) This is more of an honourable mention and it has nothing to do with Scholomance specifically, but I'm just throwing it out there, even though I actually play some heavily modified and memed up versions of those decks: Raza unnerf was a mistake, and Quest Mage still needs slowing down. There is currently pretty much no control in the meta from what I've seen other than Raza Priest, because just like back in the day, all Control decks become irrelevant when Raza Priest exists. The only success a control deck can find currently is farming aggro decks and just accepting mandatory losses against Priests and all OTKs (that's how my Odd Warrior got me to legend). And these anti-aggro decks aren't even really control in the strict sense of the word. There's little end-game to be found because there is no time for end-game. You either die early or you die turn 8. You just get to pick one you shore up your deck against and accept losses against the rest. There'd be a lot more gameplay variety if those two decks took a big hit, even if Raza is the only thing Priest has going for it these days.
And yes, I'm not mentioning Lightning Bloom because if Kael takes a hit, Lightning Bloom isn't even that big of a problem compared to the rest. Not even hyper aggro Shamans with Lightning Blooms are able to keep up with token Druids, Pirate Warriors and Discard Locks. Take Lightning Bloom away and Shaman's got nothing. Even Shaman has been falling off and Big Shaman is often dead before their first minion.
I think the new Tortolian Mage combo with potion of illusions is totally broken. Not because it is incredibly strong but just because when you manage to pull out the combo (which comes out that it's surprisingly easy) it is totally uninteractive for your opponent.
For those who doesn't know the combo you drop tortolian and get copies with potion of illusion then drop 1 cost tortolians to freeze the enemy board turn after turn while you slowly kill your opponent and he has nothing to do than just pass turn
This deck is quite unknown for the people and a bit tricky to pilot but when it becomes popular the meta will be trash
Probably not as broken as you think.
Against aggro its very weak, and against everything else, draw your Potion of Illusion and there goes your combo. So the deck is a somewhat weird combo deck since it needs exactly the right cards, and at the same time cant play the distance since the longer the stall, the greater the chances of your combo being dead.
Its a fun deck to play, but probably impossible to get consistent results.
BrandonOld God Fanatic 13302231 PostsJoined 05/29/2019
Posted 2 years, 9 months ago
My guesses for nerfs in the future:
Kael'thas Sunstrider: This comes out way too early i.m.o. Turn 7-8 shouldn't be the "okay now you get OTK'd" turn. Or even earlier if you ramp with druid. My guess is that it will go either from "Every thirth spell you cast each turn costs 0" to "Every fourth spell you cast each turn costs 0" or to "Every thirth spell you cast each turn costs 1". The last one seems the most likely as other cards like the Rogue Galakrond have seen similar changes.
Lightning Bloom: If they don't nerf [Hearthstone Card (Keal'Thas Sunstrider) Not Found], it will be this card. Sure the overload 2 effect kinda balances it, but if combined with lots of ramp, you basicly negate the downside and make it a better Innervate. (Or just OP pre-nerf Innervate). In Shaman this card is also a bit high rolly, but i haven't seen shaman really abuse it that much.
Secret Passage: "1 mana draw 5!!1!1!". Okay i feel like a few ways blizz could nerf this card: #1: Increase it's cost to 2. Still really strong at 2 mana. OR #2: when your hand get's replaced, it will still count as "in hand". This nerf shuts down Mecha'thun rogue in wild, which can do their combo fairly early, because of Myra's Unstable Element and [Hearthstone Card (Ankha The buried) Not Found]. (and of course good draw) The most likely nerf i.m.o. is the "Nerf to 2 mana", because it will make this card a bit harder to use alongside cards like Eviscerate, and it slows down aggro.
Raise Dead: This card feels kinda bad to play against. Sure you "pay" for it with 3 health, but that's often A BENEFIT to both Priest and warlock. Priests want self damage for quest, and suicide warlock is a thing with cards like Darkglare and Flesh Giant. I wouldn't be surpriced if this cards cost will be increased to 1 mana.
Last but not least: Mindrender Illucia: This card just completely shuts down all the OTK decks, and it carries Raza/highlander/Galakrond priest over the top. And OTK was the main/best way to deal with these decks before. My guess for a nerf would be the "typical HS Team": "Cost increased by 1" nerf. They LOVE nerfing cards by increasing their cost by 1, but in this case it's a bit better. This nerf would make it so that these priests can't play 8+ cost cards like Kael'thas Sunstrider or Archmage Antonidas on turn 10+. (of course they can still disrupt your combo-pieces still, but at least they can't take the centerpiece of your combo.) Another nerf is: (And i know this will never happen, but i wish it would) Mindrender Illucia Removed from the Galakrond hero power. Just so priests can't get multiple of them.
RNG is only fun as long as there is a 50/50 chance of getting something really good or trash level of bad. If RNG always results in something good, then it's not fun.
anchorm4nThe Cake Is A Lie 17802051 PostsJoined 03/13/2019
Posted 2 years, 9 months ago
So the first round of (card) nerfs has arrived and I don't know how to react. I could get 3.200 dust plus some more from spare golden copies if I hit that disenchant button and I'd really like to craft a few cards... But surely those two can't be all, can they?
What do you think, are there more nerfs incoming? And if so, when do you expect them?
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know? Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
I' m fairly sure more nerfs are incoming, but unless something oppressive emerges out of nowhere in Standard, I doubt they'll step in again before the meta has somewhat settled.
I've mentioned my encounters with her in the nerf announcement thread already, but TL;DR she steals your opponents turn, and in a game of cards that can make you lose the entire game
I am still holding out hope... and all my stuff that would be targeted for nerfs so I can disenchant and finally craft my Reliquary of Souls. for me, every single time I am ready to craft it, something else comes along and steals my thunder.
if you want to play Reliquary of souls that badly just craft First Day of school and play Paladin.
Every paladin I've fought this weekend seemed to get that legendary from that zero mana spell.
OR you can play Shaman with Fist of Ra-Den and cast lightning bolt.
I've done the Shaman route... you die. A lot. Yay, you get a legendary... that you cannot support with your deck and will ultimately be destroyed for doing.
I think the new Tortolian Mage combo with potion of illusions is totally broken. Not because it is incredibly strong but just because when you manage to pull out the combo (which comes out that it's surprisingly easy) it is totally uninteractive for your opponent.
For those who doesn't know the combo you drop tortolian and get copies with potion of illusion then drop 1 cost tortolians to freeze the enemy board turn after turn while you slowly kill your opponent and he has nothing to do than just pass turn
This deck is quite unknown for the people and a bit tricky to pilot but when it becomes popular the meta will be trash
Anyone had the discover mechanic on their bingo list?
Hi Lyra, sorry for the long delay as I'm not used to getting responses ;P and haven't been on OOC as much the past couple months since getting burnt out on HS (and Destiny 2). But I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write such thoughtful responses while also engaging with RavenSun.
When it comes to general philosophies, I think we're on the same page in terms of the need for good combo disruption tools and a preference for the sorts of "smart" tech cards that you outlined (I really liked this distinction!). I just think that, in the specific case of Mindrender Illucia, the card either needs to be nerfed or converted into a "smart" option that doesn't win or lose the game if drawn/not drawn. And again, my claim isn't coming from a place of "Illucia is too meta-defining!" but rather that, for me personally, "Illucia is too feelsbadman" for an entire archetype that counters Control Priest.
We may still disagree, but my best guess is that that's due to: 1) Me coming from the perspective of Standard as opposed to WIld; and/or 2) The fact that I don't play T1 OTK decks so I'm more in favor of both the OP OTK decks getting weakened and the OP counter cards getting weakened (as RavenSun preferred).
Regarding #1 - I hadn't considered your arguments about how strong Wild OTK decks are at the moment, but this leads me to wanting separate balancing for both Standard and Wild as opposed to allowing cards that are balanced in Wild to dominate in Standard. So when you unpack Illucia, why not give 2 versions of the card that only work in their respective mode with the Standard version being retired/folded into the Wild version when it rotates? I know this would be harder in terms of coding and player confusion, but from a game balancing perspective I don't see why we don't have separate sandboxes.
Regarding #2 - This is just my opinion and I don't believe it should be imposed on others, but my ideal meta always includes OTK decks as a viable strategy, but they rarely rise to the ranks of T1 or T0 given how tilting they can be for the vocal minority that you mentioned in your original post (I feel the same way about Casino builds). So I've been on board with the nerfs, in Standard, to some of the old Malygos Druid decks that seemed OP, but I would've pushed back against nerfs to slower or less consistent OTK decks like when some of the Shirvallah OTK Pallys were meta-viable.
Lastly, I just wanted to leave a comment about Neutral Legendaries. It's obvious that neutral cards can only be as strong as they perform in the classes for which they have the most synergies. However, I find it frustrating when a card like Kael'thas Sunstrider performs so much better in certain classes that when it's nerfed it's no longer viable in any other classes than the originally OP ones. E.g., I'd argue that Kael'thas is extremetely fair at 7-mana in Hunter, and was borderline fair at 6-mana, but going any higher will kill it completely. So instead of a one-size-fits-all nerf to Kael'thas again, why not print multiple versions with different mana costs or abilities (e.g., only one 0-cost spell vs. a new 0-cost spell every 3 spells) like they did with all of the different versions of Galakrond? Or you could make it simpler with 3 versions (1 quad-class and 2 tri-class)...
Thank you for that novel. Are you enroute to get it published?
Problem with multiple versions of cards is it multiplies the amount of work to design and keep them in check. Different versions of the same card are effectively different cards. They just can't do it.
About KT, while it is true that currently only Druid can effectively abuse it, it may not be the case forever (ie Shaman starts to gather interesting synergies).
Either way the real problem of KT is the discount to (0). He should discount to (1), and probably only one spell per turn. I don't even understand why they nerfed his base cost instead of his discount. It was obvious the problem would repeat, especially with printing even more (broken) Ramp cards...
So after grinding my ass off trying to break into Legend with Priest this season, I finally cracked, waved it goodbye and switched to Odd Warrior, which got me there in like 8 games (compared to Priest which has been going 50/50 for me for 3 days now). Here are my candidates for what needs fixing, in no particular order:
1) Kael'thas Sunstrider. Combos are fine. Combos that end you turn 7-8 are not. One of the reasons I gave up on the Priest, despite the deck running Mindrender Illucia AND Dirty Rat, was that in the 10 or so games I queued up against OTK, I never ever drew either of them. Obviously, that's RNG for you. The issue is there's just so little time to draw those answers. If you don't get them in your top half of the deck, you're done. And the main culprit is Kael'thas. The Mechathun combo itself shouldn't even be possible, because there is no reason for Kael'thas to count how many spells have been played when he's not even on the board. Kael should work like Chenvaala or Dragon Soul: only count down while in play. So if a Druid Biology Projects + Lightning Blooms him out, they still have to play 3 spells to trigger him. And Mechathun doesn't get to do its bullshit at all in this manner. There are other ways to pull the combo off if you're that into it. The fact that the nerf to Bloodbloom actually made the deck better is outrageous (though obviously, that was not the target for the nerf). Also, obviously, Kael's effect should work only once a turn. Do that, and he's a perfectly fine card. Hell, you could probably unnerf him to 6.
2) Gibberling: Knew it when that card was revealed, there's no way this thing can stay the way it is. Even nerfing it to two mana is too little I think. Druids are currently perfectly capable of essentially sealing the game turn 3, especially if going second. You could say that's a bit of a highroll, but it's been happening with astonishing consistency in my experience. And the worst part is, there is essentially nothing that clears those boards. Not even Warrior or Priest or Mage has a way to clear a board of double-buffed Gibberlings on turn 3, yet that's exactly what the deck's gameplan is. And that's just not on.
3) Suicide Warlock: Not sure which card exactly to target there. Maybe it's Darkglare, cause even if you nerf the Flesh Giant, Molten Giant still does the same thing to you. Granted, I've only played against the deck a handful of times, but every time it ended the same: Turn 5, there's 32 damage on the board and all my answers have been Loatheb'd. The deck should not be able to tank its health this fast, draw almost everything in its deck and do so for 0 mana, and it's Darkglare that's the enabler for all of it. Darkglare and Raise Dead providing you a free unnerfed innervate plus extra self damage + card draw off the [Hearthstone Card (Raise Deads) Not Found] to just keep going can't stay the way it is. Midrange decks already essentially don't exist in Wild, and if a Warlock can polish off a game by turn 5, it's no wonder that's going to stay the case. Hell, even the hated Demon Hunters can't get a word in in this meta, cause between Suicide Lock, Discard Lock and Token Druid, they're too slow. DH...too slow. What in the world?
4) This is more of an honourable mention and it has nothing to do with Scholomance specifically, but I'm just throwing it out there, even though I actually play some heavily modified and memed up versions of those decks: Raza unnerf was a mistake, and Quest Mage still needs slowing down. There is currently pretty much no control in the meta from what I've seen other than Raza Priest, because just like back in the day, all Control decks become irrelevant when Raza Priest exists. The only success a control deck can find currently is farming aggro decks and just accepting mandatory losses against Priests and all OTKs (that's how my Odd Warrior got me to legend). And these anti-aggro decks aren't even really control in the strict sense of the word. There's little end-game to be found because there is no time for end-game. You either die early or you die turn 8. You just get to pick one you shore up your deck against and accept losses against the rest. There'd be a lot more gameplay variety if those two decks took a big hit, even if Raza is the only thing Priest has going for it these days.
And yes, I'm not mentioning Lightning Bloom because if Kael takes a hit, Lightning Bloom isn't even that big of a problem compared to the rest. Not even hyper aggro Shamans with Lightning Blooms are able to keep up with token Druids, Pirate Warriors and Discard Locks. Take Lightning Bloom away and Shaman's got nothing. Even Shaman has been falling off and Big Shaman is often dead before their first minion.
Probably not as broken as you think.
Against aggro its very weak, and against everything else, draw your Potion of Illusion and there goes your combo. So the deck is a somewhat weird combo deck since it needs exactly the right cards, and at the same time cant play the distance since the longer the stall, the greater the chances of your combo being dead.
Its a fun deck to play, but probably impossible to get consistent results.
My guesses for nerfs in the future:
Kael'thas Sunstrider: This comes out way too early i.m.o. Turn 7-8 shouldn't be the "okay now you get OTK'd" turn. Or even earlier if you ramp with druid. My guess is that it will go either from "Every thirth spell you cast each turn costs 0" to "Every fourth spell you cast each turn costs 0" or to "Every thirth spell you cast each turn costs 1". The last one seems the most likely as other cards like the Rogue Galakrond have seen similar changes.
Lightning Bloom: If they don't nerf [Hearthstone Card (Keal'Thas Sunstrider) Not Found], it will be this card. Sure the overload 2 effect kinda balances it, but if combined with lots of ramp, you basicly negate the downside and make it a better Innervate. (Or just OP pre-nerf Innervate). In Shaman this card is also a bit high rolly, but i haven't seen shaman really abuse it that much.
Secret Passage: "1 mana draw 5!!1!1!". Okay i feel like a few ways blizz could nerf this card: #1: Increase it's cost to 2. Still really strong at 2 mana. OR #2: when your hand get's replaced, it will still count as "in hand". This nerf shuts down Mecha'thun rogue in wild, which can do their combo fairly early, because of Myra's Unstable Element and [Hearthstone Card (Ankha The buried) Not Found]. (and of course good draw) The most likely nerf i.m.o. is the "Nerf to 2 mana", because it will make this card a bit harder to use alongside cards like Eviscerate, and it slows down aggro.
Raise Dead: This card feels kinda bad to play against. Sure you "pay" for it with 3 health, but that's often A BENEFIT to both Priest and warlock. Priests want self damage for quest, and suicide warlock is a thing with cards like Darkglare and Flesh Giant. I wouldn't be surpriced if this cards cost will be increased to 1 mana.
Last but not least: Mindrender Illucia: This card just completely shuts down all the OTK decks, and it carries Raza/highlander/Galakrond priest over the top. And OTK was the main/best way to deal with these decks before. My guess for a nerf would be the "typical HS Team": "Cost increased by 1" nerf. They LOVE nerfing cards by increasing their cost by 1, but in this case it's a bit better. This nerf would make it so that these priests can't play 8+ cost cards like Kael'thas Sunstrider or Archmage Antonidas on turn 10+. (of course they can still disrupt your combo-pieces still, but at least they can't take the centerpiece of your combo.) Another nerf is: (And i know this will never happen, but i wish it would) Mindrender Illucia Removed from the Galakrond hero power. Just so priests can't get multiple of them.
RNG is only fun as long as there is a 50/50 chance of getting something really good or trash level of bad. If RNG always results in something good, then it's not fun.
So the first round of (card) nerfs has arrived and I don't know how to react. I could get 3.200 dust plus some more from spare golden copies if I hit that disenchant button and I'd really like to craft a few cards... But surely those two can't be all, can they?
What do you think, are there more nerfs incoming? And if so, when do you expect them?
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
I' m fairly sure more nerfs are incoming, but unless something oppressive emerges out of nowhere in Standard, I doubt they'll step in again before the meta has somewhat settled.
I'm also pretty certain that there will be other nerfs or even buffs :)
Kael'tas in an understandable nerf even tough he's not solely the problem in the decks he is played in :)
I personaly realy do not understand the Illucia Nerf - i think the card itself is fine but i guess the nerf isn't that bad.
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Illucia just feels bad to play against.
I've mentioned my encounters with her in the nerf announcement thread already, but TL;DR she steals your opponents turn, and in a game of cards that can make you lose the entire game
I am still holding out hope... and all my stuff that would be targeted for nerfs so I can disenchant and finally craft my Reliquary of Souls. for me, every single time I am ready to craft it, something else comes along and steals my thunder.
if you want to play Reliquary of souls that badly just craft First Day of school and play Paladin.
Every paladin I've fought this weekend seemed to get that legendary from that zero mana spell.
OR you can play Shaman with Fist of Ra-Den and cast lightning bolt.
I've done the Shaman route... you die. A lot. Yay, you get a legendary... that you cannot support with your deck and will ultimately be destroyed for doing.