Details have arrived on this week's Hearthstone balance changes. We do not have a date confirmed yet.
- Seven cards are getting nerfed in constructed.
- Patches and Pyramad are both returning to the Battlegrounds hero pool.
- Shudderwock, Queen Togwaggle, and Infinite Toki have all had their hero powers adjusted.
- Golden Soul Juggler now deals 3 damage to a minion twice instead of 6 damage once.
- Arena received some card appearance adjustments.
- Druid, Hunter, and Paladin winrates in Arena should be decreased.
- Priest, Rogue, Shaman and Warlock winrates in Arena should now be increased.
The Card Nerfs
All will become disenchantable for full value when the nerfs hit for 2 weeks.
- (Discuss Nerf) Fiendish Rites cost is now 4 (up from 3).
- (Discuss Nerf) Scion of Ruin cost is now 4 (up from 3).
- (Discuss Nerf) Ancharrr durability is now 2 (down from 3).
- (Discuss Nerf) Dragon's Pack now gives +2/+2 (down from +3/+3).
- (Discuss Nerf) Invocation of Frost cost is now 2 (up from 1).
- (Discuss Nerf) Necrium Apothecary cost is now 5 (up from 4).
- (Discuss Nerf) Dragonqueen Alexstrasza can no longer generate herself.
Quote From Kaeyoh
Welcome to a new year in the tavern, everyone! We have a balance update in the works that will go live later this week which includes the following changes, primarily for Standard and Battlegrounds:
- Fiendish Rites: Mana cost increased from (3) to (4).
- Scion of Ruin: Mana cost increased from (3) to (4).
- Ancharrr: Durability reduced from (3) to (2).
- Dragon’s Pack: Now reads, “…If you’ve Invoked twice, give them +2/+2.” (reduced from +3/+3).
- Invocation of Frost: Mana cost increased from (1) to (2).
- Necrium Apothecary: Mana cost increased from (4) to (5).
- Dragonqueen Alexstrasza: Battlecry effect can no longer generate Dragonqueen Alexstrasza.
Once the update is live, adjusted cards will be eligible for a full Arcane Dust refund for two weeks.*
This update includes several adjustments and gets more Heroes brawling in Bob’s Tavern than ever before! Further Battlegrounds balance changes are coming very soon, in addition to the exciting new content we have in the pipeline… we’ll have more to share in the near future!
- Burbling: Cost reduced from (2) to (1).
- Queen Wagtoggle
- Wax Warband: Give a random friendly Mech, Demon, Murloc and Beast +2 Attack. (instead of +1 Health)
- Infinite Toki
- Temporal Tavern: Cost reduced from (2) to (1). Now reads, “Refresh Bob’s Tavern. Include a Minion from a higher Tavern Tier.”
- Patches the Pirate
- Has returned to the Battlegrounds Hero Pool.
- Fire the Cannons!: At the start of next combat, deal 4 damage to two random enemy minions. (increased from 3 damage)
- Has returned to the Battlegrounds Hero Pool.
- Brick by Brick: Give a random friendly minion +3 Health. (increased from +2 Health)
- Golden Soul Juggler
- After a friendly Demon dies, deal 3 damage to a random enemy minion twice. (instead of 6 damage once)
Bug Fixes and Game Improvements
- Battlegrounds: Selfless Hero’s Deathrattle will now only affect minions that do not already have Divine Shield.
- Arena: The appearance rate of cards in the draft has been updated to ensure class balance remains close to the ideal 50% win-rate. Specifically, the win-rate of Druid, Hunter, and Paladin should now be decreased. The win-rate of Priest, Rogue, Shaman and Warlock should now be increased. Card appearance rates for Mage and Warrior remain untouched.
The devs have said quite literally the opposite.
I recall Whalen specifically re: the Omega cards in Boomsday they stated those cards to be "okay" i.e. 4 mana 4/5s in the event you just needed to play them without 10 mana.
I mean look at regular Scion: 3 mana 3/2 with Rush? That's not bad ala Restless Mummy - 1 mana cheaper since no Reborn. Or take Pack - 5 mana summon 2 2/3s with taunt? Also not terrible vs something like Rain of Toads - 1 mana cheaper and no overload for 1 fewer minion. These cards were designed to be "okay" if played without the conditions met, it's just something nobody ever does which was my point.
Those cards "can" be played without having the condition met. But they aren't meant to be played without meeting the condition. Nobody would ever put one of these cards in their deck because they think it is worth it to play them without meeting the condition, for example, nobody would play Dragon's Pack in a deck without galakrond because it is an 'okay' card.
In your first post you ask why the conditions are even there because nobody ever plays them without meeting them, but imagine if Dragon's Pack was just 5 mana summon two 5/6 wolves with taunt with no condition, it would be played in every shaman deck ever. But because it can only be played in galakrond shaman, it is not as troublesome because if the meta is just right so that galakrond shaman isn't good, then Dragon's Pack won't be OP even though the condition is met every time it is played.
I think you've misunderstood my original question: I did not ask why the conditions are there (I do understand deck/thematic synergy) - I asked why cost the cards as though anyone ever plays them WITHOUT the conditions being met. Or worded another way: why not cost them to reflect their actual play impact/usage.
We seem to be agreeing, but are just thinking about it differently. To your point if Dragons Pack was 5 mana with no condition it would be fantastically OP, which I agree with. And because nobody ever plays it without hitting the condition, it is - in actual, practical effect - exactly that. So why not just cost the card at 6 or 7 to reflect what it really is?
So take another analogous example: Quest Druid. Has anybody seen a lot of Oasis Surger or Hidden Oasis recently? No because those cards were effectively designed to be played with the completed quest, even though a 5 mana 5/5 with rush is just fine on its own. So Blizz is effectively undercosting strong cards to make them "playable" in situations where people do not play them. It's the tail wagging the dog and, while I understand the logic, I happen to disagree with it.
Ok, I understand and I want to make one more point about the cards being 'under-costed'. Look at the un'goro quest rewards, specifically the priest one, 5 mana 8/8 taunt gain 40 life is amazing. It doesn't matter that it cannot be played until turn whatever, you already wouldn't be playing that until very late in the game. But quest priest is still bad, why? Because having a health reset card isn't useful in a deck full of deathrattle minions.
In the DoD reveal stream Mike talked about these galakrond cards being powerful for their cost because prior to that point in the game you would be playing invoke cards which are generally overcosted, so to compensate for that you get this undercosted card. But you only get the undercosted card in galakrond decks where you first have to play bad cards before playing the good cards.
All 3 Galakrond-related Shaman cards nerfed and with Mogu Fleshshaper, Faceless Corruptor and Sludge Slurper we have 6 cards from the Shaman deck nerfed in a month. World record?
Anyone care to enlighten me on whether the Toki hero power change is just a mana reduction or does it change in another way too?
I think they reverted it to the original, where it just switches one of the minions to a higher tier, does not add an extra minion.
It does change in another way: until now Toki added a minion to the table (if your current tavern allows you to choose from 4 minions, Toki's hero power will give you 4 other minions plus an additional one), but from now on the higher minion will be counted towards the number of choices you can get based on the tavern you're currently in.
Her Hero Power right now refreshes the Tavern and then spawns another minion from a higher tier. I'm assuming this change will simply replace one of the minions upon refresh with that higher tier.
You'll get less minions to choose from, but I think the reduction in mana to use it is worth it.
I see, thank you for the explanation.
Couldnt they just wait to see how shakes out when the 25 new cards are released? Shouldnt that be happening soon?
We'd be waiting another two weeks to see what effect those cards would have, which feels too long, especially with how many cards they nerfed.
They could, but the fact 3 out of the 5 Galakrond packages were concerning (even after one of them got nerfed!), and a fourth is solid, suggests there was a fundamental mis-evaluation of the power level. This is even more telling since dragon decks are so rare despite there being a lot of strong cards for them.
35 new cards! They've probably got some playtesting that shows these cards may still be problematic.
My exact point: maybe these nerfs don't address just the current meta (we'll have other cards in 15 days, so it wouldn't be a smart choice), but probably even the one we'll have after Galakrond's Awakening adventure.
I love these nerfs! I really like that Blizz goes for more suddle nerfs instead of totally butchering a card. I think every nerfed card is still playable, but it will still be an impactfull nerf. Good job Blizz! :)
I partly like this and partly don't, now there is a lot of indecision about whether or not I should disenchant the card or hold onto it. But at the same time it is nice to see more balanced nerfs.
ALWAYS dust a nerfed card! If the card turns out to be bad, you got the extra dust. If the card stays viable you can craft it again without any dust deficit. So there is no way you lose something, when you dust nerfed cards - you can only benefit. :)
Scion of Ruin needs a nerf something fierce. That shit is way too OP. Also the 2/3 minion with generate a lackey + 3 armour is gross, that is 2 battlecries in one in anyone's book and it's only a 2 or 3 cost card.
Shame about apothecary though, coining that out on 3 into Waxadred was so much fun
Anyone else not liking the frequent nerfs? As a new player it's hard to make decks, and I don't have enough dust to make multiple tier 1 decks. If they keep nerfing so often I am afraid to craft cards because the deck might become useless and I can't craft anything else then =/