I'm interested in what everyone thinks are the best and worst Tourists in Perils in Paradise and I'm not afraid of being proven wrong almost immediately, so I'll drop my personal rankings of which Tourists are going to be the most impactful (in Standard) when the expansion launches next week and I invite everyone else to do the same.

I tried to rank the cards both by how powerful I think their effect is and also the quality of the cards they allow their class access to, which means there's a lot of ways I can be wrong and isn't that fun? Without further ado, here are my almost certainly incorrect rankings of Tourists (in reverse order of power level):

Tier 4 - Probably Terrible

River Crocolisk is not a good card, no matter how many you have or how big they get, so Ranger Gilly already has the deck stacked against him. Then I look at the cards Warrior got in the new set, and there honestly isn't anything worth putting such a weak 6-Drop into my deck for.

Rogue has met with a terrible fate: a Tourist card with a mediocre effect and a set that doesn't look like it'll do well in Rogue. Maestra gets the edge over Gilly solely because some Hero cards are actually really good and there's always the upside of using Tess to replay all your Rogue cards.

Tier 3 - Weak, with Upside

I can't get over the fact that Raylla, a Legendary minion from 2024, is just a slightly better Vex Crow. If you can look past that, then you can convince yourself that Raylla has a lot of ways to pay off a small spell deck with a durable board, which is nice, but there's not a lot that the Paladin set offers Mage - unless you're playing a minion buff deck (and this is Mage we're talking about, guys), you're not going to have a whole lot of opportunities to make use of the cards that Paladin has to offer.

I like Cookie's effect, but the set he gets doesn't really play into what he wants you to do. Demon Hunter has a few cards that Shaman will definitely want, but it's really hard for me to think of Cookie as anything other than a dead card that you're running specifically to gain access to better card draw and/or new spell schools. Like Raylla, Cookie is better played when you can combo him with other cards and, also like Raylla, doesn't really offer much beyond an OK board presence - but at least he can be played onto an established board to make some trades a little better.

Massive card draw is good, and there is some support for Spell School DK... except for spells that are actually good. The archetype feels fringe, and if you're not specifically going for Spell School DK there just doesn't feel like there's a reason to play Buttons. Probably the most inflexible combination of Tourist and set.

Tier 2 - Good Effect, OK Set

There's a few cards from the Rogue set that Paladin could use, mainly Oh, Manager! and Knickknack Shack, but the cards that cost 2 or less that Lynessa is going to be comboing with are much more likely to be Paladin cards. If you took away the Tourist, would it change how much Lynessa sees play?

Darkmarrow is a bit of a mix between Baron Rivendare and Spiritsinger Umbra, which sounds like a pretty good deal. He also gives you access to cards like Brittlebone Buccaneer and Eliza Goreblade, but a big reason of why he's likely to see play is more about what he does with the Warlock cards, both the old ones and the ones from the new set.

Tier 1 - A Beautiful Marriage of Effect and Set

Vol'jin's effect is situational, but in the right situations it can be very strong. He sits at the bottom of this tier because what he does doesn't really play with any of the cards Priest gets from Hunter; but his effect is solid and the set is really good so I'm giving him a pass. Giving Priest, the class with the most potential for annoying shenanigans, access to Sasquawk and Pet Parrot feels a little nasty on Blizzard's part, and it's going to take a lot to convince me that Death Roll isn't premium removal.

Aranna is so good at what she does that half of Priest's set feels like cards printed specifically for Demon Hunter (but don't feel bad for Priest - Blizzard made it up to them by giving them Hunter's entire set). Sauna Regular, Acupuncture, Nightshade Tea, and Hot Coals all go great with a self-harm DH whose Hero Power gives them constant cheap access to pain. And while Aranna feels like a huge payoff for the archetype, it doesn't feel like the deck won't work if you don't draw her.

Y'all - I don't think I'm going out an a limb when I say that Mistah Vistah's effect is absurdly strong. Sure, you have to wait three turns to get the payoff, so you're technically playing a 5/5 vanilla 5-Drop, but there's a lot of good spells for Vistah to repeat to the point where it feels like the opponent has to kill the Druid in that three-turn window or they'll be completely buried. And the Tourist tag gets you Tsunami (a great spell to stall the board and later repeat with Vistah), Go with the Flow and Seabreeze Chalice (great cheap spells for Spell Damage Druid) and niche tools like Rising Waves and Tide Pools, so this looks like a top-tier Tourist (except, actually, it isn't).

Tier 0 - I Mean, Come On

Any Tourist card that gives its class access to the absurd pile that is Druid's set in Perils in Paradise is already a top three Tourist in my book, and then you add an effect which gives you the ability to delete one of your opponent's key minions before they even draw it. Warrior salivates over the chance to add cards like Trail Mix, Hydration Station, New Heights, and Sleep Under the Stars to their decks, no matter the archetype. Both effect and set give one of the best late-game classes even more tools for suffocating its opponents, so this is obviously the best Tourist.

Please disagree with me down below!

Hey all! Just curious what decks everyone has been playing so far in Whizbang's Workshop and how far you've gotten along the ladder grind with them. 

Paladin and Mage took a bit of a dive so my two favourite classes are out of the mix (if I look at a purely hardcore competitive standpoint).

I'm currently thinking about completely jumping on the Spell Hunter train to grind out the tavern pass. Games seem to be quick, the deck crushes Death Knights which I've had some problems with, and it is quite an affordable deck considering the potential it has.

Let's see your decks and hear about how your laddering is going so far!

Just an odd observation on my part, but while checking what stuff I’m missing in each set, I noticed that the four new Rumble minions they added to the Core set are also craftable as Legacy cards.

I’m not sure why that is, as it breaks with how other new cards in Core have been in the past.  But the interesting part of this is that if you craft the Legacy versions, they are usable in Twist right now.

Worth it?!  Probably not.  But I said fuck it and did it anyway!  [Hearthstone Card (Gnomelina, S.A.F.E. Pilot) Not Found] isn’t bad as a board clear, and the inclusion of Night Elf Huntress in Odd Paladin this morning helped me clear taunts for lethal.

So they are situational at best, but in the right situation they can be nice!  I really like Huntress because one of her three hits can go face.  So you could clear two minions to help control the board and also deal 3 face damage with one card.

Hello guys, I've created a lot of Rogue decks for upcoming year and expansion. One if them had the more potential than the others so wanted to share with you too and wanted to know the parts that i missed if there are some so I seek your opinions about the deck.

The deck is here; I wrote all of the gameplan in deck's guide, will copy/paste here aswell;

Quote From Almaniarra

Gameplan / To do list;

• Draw as many as possible with using pirates with Toy Boat
• Make Clearance Promoter to hit at least 1x Eviscerate
• Hold at least 1 copy of Sandbox Scoundrel's mini.
• Try to draw Sonya Waterdancer and 1x Cover Artist until we have 7+ mana.
• At 7 mana;
  
  
• Play Sonya Waterdancer (4-mana)
• Play mini of Sandbox Scoundrel (1-mana)
• Play Cover Artist with its cost decreased by Sandbox Scoundrel (1-mana) to copy Sonya Waterdancer
• Play 0-cost Cover Artist which Sonya Waterdancer added to our hand.
• Now we have 3x Sonya Waterdancers on board so we could play our 1-cost Eviscerate which is decreased by [Hearthstone Card (Clearence Promoter) Not Found]. (1-mana)
• We spent our 7-mana and dealt 4-damage to face but we still have more to do.
• 3x Sonya Waterdancer should add 3x 0-cost Eviscerates to our hand. Play them all to their face to deal 12 more damage.

---

As you see, this is the only basic version of the potential of the deck, you can do even more with more mana and more copies of the cards. The combo's potential depends on how many mana and copies of cards you have on that moment.

At its max, it would be like

• Sonya Waterdancer (4-mana)
• Mini of Sandbox Scoundrel (1-mana)
• Cover Artist (1-mana)
• Cover Artist (0-mana)

At this point DO NOT play a 1-cost Sandbox Scoundrel even you have in your hand or your hand will be floating and you can't add more Eviscerates to your hand ! This is the important part.

• Mini of Sandbox Scoundrel (0-mana)
• Cover Artist (1-mana)
• Cover Artist (0-mana)

Board is full, even tho we could play more. We should have 3x Cover Artist + 2x 1-cost Eviscerates in hand. 1x Eviscarate should be ok tho.

We have now 5x Sonya Waterdancer on board.

• Play a 1-cost Eviscerate to get 5x 0-cost Eviscerates (24 damage)
• Play another 1-cost Eviscerate to get 5x 0-cost Eviscerates (24 damage)

We dealt 48 damage by playing our combo, it would be enough to finish the game.

Hello guys. I was just experimenting with new cards and I was able to hit my best setup for this deck. Here what it is;

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lH8MpmH.jpg[/img]

The setup was; Playing Lor'themar Theron and then playing Loken, Jailer of Yogg-Saron to discover a 30/30 Fanottem, Lord of the Opera to summon a 30/30 Tentacle with Taunt and summon a 30/30 Giant with Forge of Wills. I can't be so happy after I did this.

Here is the deck I was using;

If you want to give it a try, you can add Symphony of Sins to the deck, it is a good tool but I don't have one unfortunately. I would replace Elite Tauren Champion if i had one.

I did a decisive misplay against Ramp Druid (as XL Shaman) and was wondering how y'all would think in the same situation.

Turn 7, both have a few smaller minions on board. They have 4 minions with Composting played on them and two cards in hand. I'm able to play Bolner + Mutanus and my main goal is to snipe their Denathrius. I suspect that they have at least one spell in hand so they should draw some more to make use of Mutanus. I go on to clear all their minions (this is where I feel stupid now) so they should get some more minions in hand and I consume their Brann and Sylvanas. Later, with 5-6 cards in their hand, I play Theotar and miss Big D once again. A turn or to after that their Sire kills me from full health with a 50+ dmg battlecry.

Since I possibly couldn't know wether Denathrius was one of their two cards in their hand on t7 I can't really say where it went wrong besides bad luck. How would you guys think adn decide the play in the same situation?

PS: Can't wait to see both Denathrius and Theotar kicked out of meta/standard format.

This is a thread to see the interest level in Standard Tournaments on the site. 

Here’s how it would work: it wouldn’t be on a particular day, it would last over a month or more. For each match, people would have a week or a few days and they would use one of those time availability website such as https://www.when2meet.com/.

When they have a time that works for both of them, they’d have to login and add each other on the app and hold the match or matches if we do best of 3.

Any conflicts would be handled by screenshot evidence but hopefully people will be honest about who won so there wouldn’t be a need for a staff member to also have availability and spectate those matches.

If you are interested please comment with your server (we would have to do separate ones for NA and EU). 

If you have any ideas on tournament format, we would appreciate any feedback.

Do you? :)

Just curious to hear some opinions. Mine are:

Token DH will not be good. Instead, a token package will be run in DH similar to the "discard" package Warlock is running now in standard.

Pirate Warrior will stay meta.

Mage and Shaman will not have a place in the meta.

I was hearing some complaints, when the latest nerfs were announced, that Shaman need to be hit. I rolled my eyes, thinking the class had just spent a year or so in the toilet, and as soon as they have any success, people need to cry for nerfs. I hadn't really played it much lately, since my previous control shaman deck that I found fun got rotated out of existence. 

Then I received the Fire Festival quest to play ten (10!!!) games as a shaman, so I figured, ok, the elemental thing seems ok, i'll throw a bunch in a deck with some spells and see how it goes. So I did that, without consulting the sites - my deck has no weapons, but I managed to squeeze in Instructor Fireheart, Al'Akir the Windlord, and Bru'kan, because I like legendaries. I also put in that elemental that summons a minion off of your highest cost spell, but only put in one high cost spell (Tidal Wave), which I usually draw before the elemental, haha. Janky, for sure.

Played my 10 games. Went 10-0. Maybe people were right. . . 

Alright, so after the nerfs hit I decided to go back to ladder and finish my climb to Legend that I had to stop at Diamond 2 because the 50/50 Mage/Paladin spread made it impossible to consistently win.

In order to prove to myself that I'm good at evaluating cards I picked No-Minion-Mage without the nerfed Deck of Lunacy because I was sure it was still a very potent deck that performs well against just about most decks (outside of super aggro).

Turns out I wasn't only correct, but also an overwhelming majority of players decided to target the freshly nerfed Paladin by bringing Control Warlock...which gets absolutely trounced by N-M-Mage because you just have more burn than they have healing.

Long story short: Out of 10 games 9 were Warlock. I lost only one of those due to abysmal draws (turns out picking picking a third Incanter's Flow from Runed Orb instead of Rigged Fair Game with an empty hand was a bad choice, who knew) and one against a cheeky Face Hunter who obviously steamrolled me.

Baseline: Everyone plays Warlock to hunt Paladin, but there is no Paladin because all of them already made it to Legend, so either play MAge to farm Warlock or play Hunter to farm the Mages farming Warlock (and also farm the Warlocks because Face Hunter is poggers).

Good luck, I'm going back to failing to make Big Demon Demon Hunter work.

Everytime I play Ring Toss on standard I got only 3 options the new secret Oasis Ally, Rigged Faire Game and Netherwind Portal, the second time I only got the options left, already played several times and still the same thing after this patch, anyone have seen the same bug?

So it's finally a thing. After years of seeing the same basic and classic cards over and over we finally have the reveal of our new core set that may or may not make us clinically depressed for the next year and because I am incredibly bored and need attention you will now be subjected to my half baked takes on how all this plays out.

Basically I'll just go through every class and highlight the most relevant changes and give an overall impression. Some will be more detailed than other based on personal experience.

Demon Hunter

The DH core set looks very solid overall. They just took the most basic cards that have proven to be reasonably balanced and got rid of all the absurd stuff. Kor'vas Bloodthorn is a great addition that really helps flesh out DH's unique playstyle of healing through aggression instead of defense. She's basically Pen Flinger with heals.

Gan'arg Glaivesmith feels like a filler card by comparison. Tempo cards with outcast that are practically unplayable without it usually don't fare well, but I might just be wrong on that.

Illidari Inquisitor is the standout card in this set though. It's effectively a win condition for Big Demon DH that can break through taunts and hit face on the same turn. It might just be the solid foundation the deck needed to...well...actually be a deck that can close out a game. Really, i'm just hoping I get to use best girl Priestess of Fury again in a deck.

Warglaives of Azzinoth make a return (poached from the Outland set, as are a few others, presumably to even out the amount of cards now that DH has caught up with other classes), rebalanced and probably playable again. Probably a good idea, given how iconic the things are.

As for the removed cards, a few are rather saddening. While Twin Slice was way too good anyways, it's removal alongside Blade Dance essentially marks the end for Soul Demon Hunter (a deck which I only now started to play, promptly hit Legend with and found myself actually enjoying despite my disdain for the DH class as a whole). Wrathscale Naga and Command the Illidari also leave together with Nethrandamus. MAybe now Token DH can get some actual support. They certainly seem to be keeping it around. Wrathspike Brute, Hulking Overfiend and Raging Felscreamer will be missed for Big Demons, but I assume they'll get some suitable replacements.

Altruis the Outcast can go eat a dick in Wild now. He's not even that strong anymore and I still hate him more than any other card in DH's arsenal so I'm glad he's going away for a long time. Same goes for Mana Burn.

Overall DH looks to be starting from a much less overwhelming base this time. The class still has plent of good cards left in the core set as well as the past year so I'm not worried about their playability. Really, at worst they'll have to do something other than just aiming for face like they're cocaine-fueled Hunters.

Druid

The most striking change here is the complete removal of Savage Roar. This might mark a change in how Token Druid decks are going to be played from now on (as in going wide against a non-aoe class on turn 3 isn't an instant win anymore).The other big change is the complete removal of any damage spells, both burn and removal. They weren't kidding when they said Druids will have to remove through attack buffs from now on. I do wonder what this means going forward, but perhaps it's just something they're testing for the year of the Gryphon anyways. Bogbeam and Lunar Eclipse are still around, so I guess that should help if things go to shit.

Nordrassil Druid looks like a staple for Druid decks from now on. It's a great way to maintain board presence while ramping, drawing or just doing whatever you feel like doing with your spells.

Menagerie Warden at 5 seems very dangerous and is a very storng baseline for a Beast midrange deck (note that Beasts summoned by Guardian Animals have Rush that will also be copied by her). The fact that Druid of the Claw also got a pretty significant buff makes me happy for nostalgia's sake. Buffing Cenarius to 8 mana also certainly helps his viability in ramp decks. I am sad to report that Ancient of Lore never received the revert he deserved. I gues Classic Mode will take care of that.

Hunter

Seeing how this is my main class I have quite a lot to say here.

Hunter probably received some of the biggest changes (and rightfully so, their previous core set was a complete mess). A few notable removals include staples like Houndmaster, Animal Companion, Kill Command and Eaglehorn Bow. The lowest common denominator here is the fact that these cards essentially monopolized their respective mana slots and usually beat out most new additions, so I'm far from sad to see them go. While the iconic Huffer lethal won't happen anymore i'm still happy that I won't have to roll a 1 in 3 everytime I play that thing on curve. Unleash the Hounds and Tundra Rhino got yeeted unsurprisingly, as did Starving Buzzard who they didn't bother to rework which I think is somewhat missed potential.

The rest of the removed cards are all the useless junk nobody plays or remembers. Nothing of value was lost there (although no longer being able to discover Snipe or Misdirection is somewhat disappointing, but hey, at least we get to play around cards that people actually put in their deck for a change)

The new additions are mostly old reliables. Quick Shot, Webspinner and a new and improved Lock and Load all fit perfectly. Bearshark makes for a suitable 3-drop to replace companion and Headhunter's Hatchet is...not as good as Eaglehorn, but still better than nothing.

The most puzzling addition is Dire Frenzy and the new Selective Breeder. The former being a rather memey card that never really took off the way it needed to and the latter being...really slow for what is supposed to be a midrange class. I can only assume these cards were designed with new expansions in mind.

Savannah Highmane was a no-brainer, but King Krush is honestly a surprise, if not a welcome one. While I doubt that Hunter will slow down enough to need a 9-mana 8-damage finisher (which, btw, the new Alexstrasza does better anyways, but more on that later) it gives hope for a return (or reimagining) of Big Hunter, which was last seen during the year of the Raven.

Tracking also got seeminly reworked to no longer discard the other 2 cards, which is good for any Hunter player who actually likes to play with their cards instead of the opponent's life total.

Overall there seems to be a very strong directional shift for Hunter. Their Burst is almost entirely gone (or rather, is way more expensive now) while their overall consistency has been improved significantly. Lock and Load returning means spells based Hunter decks have far more longevity now while Midrange Beast decks will probably have to slow down and play with ressources rather than lethal range.

I personally like the presumed new direction, but it does mean that Hunter is now (or at least for this year) relying almost entirely on expansions to give them directions. If Spell and Beast support is insufficient then the entire class fails because going aggro is no longer an option (at least if you're planning to actually win)

Mage

Mage is...weird. They lost a lot of really important cards like Kirin Tor Mage and Frostbolt. They also lost most of their functional stalling tools with Blizzard and Frost Nova (although Cone of Cold got buffed into playability). Flamestrike got buffed back into relevance, but it might still be just too expensive for the modern meta.

Arcanologist and Babbling Book are good base cards for just about every deck, Ethereal Conjurer, despite the stat buff, comes off as a wasted slot. The new mage doesn't look like they'll be great at leveraging tempo and if I needed a 5-mana spell discovery I'd just pick Steward of Scrolls

An interesting change is the inclusion of Fallen Hero and Coldarra Drake indicating a return to Hero Power Mage. Without further support both of those cards are unimpressive however.

Every other removal was predictable. Sorcerer's Apprentice and Archmage Antonidas have dodged the chopping block for too long anyways, Arcane Missiles was unreliable highrolling garbage and Arcane Explosion gets substituted by the much more interesting Shooting Star.

Snap Freeze makes me hope that Freeze Mage (reimagined) will make a return through future support, seeing how most of the other frost cards are leaving.

Aegwynn, the Guardian is certainly...unexpected. Her effect is essentially a permanent +2 spell damage as long as you still have minions in your deck. the fact that it can transfer to something as small as a 1/1 has some serious implications for swing turns, especially given the amount of spell damage synergy still in Standard. The only issue is that she's really slow and prone to removal while being too clunky to be used as a standalone spell damage booster (especially compared to Imprisoned Phoenix). At least we won't have to craft her to find out how terrible she is.

Overall Mage is kind of a wildcard. Burn is still on the table but limited to Fireball (and whatever new spells we get), while Control doesn't seem part of the core identity in a major way anymore (you still have ways to clear the board, but way less time to get there).

Hero Power Mage, at the very least, seems to be going somewhere. They wouldn't bring Coldarra Drake back if there wasn't a major payoff.

Paladin

By the holy light. Paladin seems to be going somewhere for a change. It's no secret that Paladin had one of the worst base sets of any class, perhaps only trumped by how poorly Warlock's has aged over the years (and at least those guys have Flame Imp).

Basically all the major junk has been cut and I can't tell you how pretty it looks. No more useless Hammers, Wraths or Blessings. Even Holy Light got upped to a fat 8 meaning that it's now a serious considerations for decks that wish to stay healthy.

ON the more surprising side, Avenge, an infamously powerful secret, has made its return. Back in the day a Paladin with more than one minion was considered a lethal threat...now it's probably just good enough. In addition to that, a new secret, Reckoning, has been added. I like the idea seeing how Paladin really lacks the ability to effectively remove singular big threats so this should be a good fallback option to keep those kind of cards in check. If everything fails, you can always bonk it with the good old Truesilver Champion.

In a very uenxpected twist, Paladin got one of the most interesting buildarounds added to its core set. Pursuit of Justice turns the Paladin hero power from "I guess it's better than nothing" to an actual win condition that scales into the midgame. With our new Divine Shield enthusiast from Darkmoon Faire you can turn your 2-mana Wisps into Scarlet Crusaders (which is good because Scarlet Crusader isn't around anymore). Whether or not Dude Paladin will finally work out as a midrange deck remains to be seen, but at least now we have a reason to play it.

Oh and Guardian of Kings got buffed into actual viability. He's not insane, but he does his job when you need him to.

Paladin probably got the most generous buffs by losing practically nothing and gaining a whole bunch of something. On the flipside, they are now dependant on expansion based card draw more than ever because they got nothing in their core set.

Priest

Priest kinda got shafted, I'll just say it outright. Aside from most of the rather mediocre cards from the last update staying around they got the unimaginably boring Crimson Clergy who might as well be a vanilla 1/3 because you're sure not getting anywhere by trying to buff him up. It stands to argue whether they shouuld have just made Lightwarden a Priest card instead.

Focused Will is a rather nightmarish vision of the future, seeing how Silence Priest has never been an actual deck for a variety of reasons. Humongous Razorleaf in the neutral pool doesn't really help either.

Thrive in the Shadows is perhaps the best new addition as an actual targetted cycle option, especially in combination with the new Shadowform which apparently no longer gives you a two stage upgrade, meaning you probably don't want to run more than one in your deck, and the aforementioned Thrive will help you find it in due time.

Shadowed Spirit exists. I'm assuming Shadow Priest will get some more support down the line. As it stands he's just sort of there being supportive.

For some forsaken reason Lightspawn hasn't been thrown in the dumpster. A buff to 3-mana and 4 health probably won't change how unwieldy the guy is, and the removal of [Hearthstone Card (Circle of Light) Not Found] certainly doesn't make things easier. The only upside is that with the removal of Inner Fire this glowing turd is the only card that actually represents a threat when buffed with health so maybe he'll be around out of obligation.

Natalie Seline stuck around. I don't know why, she's not the kind of card you ever want to run, but I suppose that applies to most of the new core legendaries.

Shadow Word: Pain was removed, presumably due to having become obsolete in the fact of better ways to deal with low attack minions. Cabal Shadow Priest also left. Good. Never liked her anyways.

Thoughtsteal and Shadow Madness were apparently deemed unworthy. Maybe Priests now finally get to play with their own cards for a change.

Overall I have no idea where Priest is going, but at the very least resurrection doesn't seem to be a core mechanic and I feel like that improves the game as a whole.

Rogue

Eviscerate and Sap are gone. I'm pretty sure that's the biggest change the class has received in....well ever...and it's also what you can accurately point to if Rogue, for the first time in Hearthstone's history ends up as a genuinely bad class (not saying that will happen, but if anything it would happen now).

To compensate for the sudden lack of flexible removal we get...Plague Scientist and Patient Assassin. I would say it could be worse, but I don't think that's possible. At least Assassinate is playable.

[Hearthstone Card (Swashburgler) Not Found] was an all time favourite, and [Hearthstone Card (Blade Cultist) Not Found], while pretty useless during his initial appearance, at least makes sense with the current Rogue Playstyle.

Vanessa VanCleef is a wildcard. If there'S some burgle synergy she can be absolutely nuts by giving you very specific cards and forcing opponents to constantly watch which card they play last...but without burgle support she's too mundane to actually put in a deck.

On a more positive note, Tomb Pillager was an amazing card and has certainly aged well and the new Assassin's Blade is perfect for weapon buffing strategies (even if it is most likely going to remain overshadowed by Self-Sharpening Sword)

Overall Rogue can no longer rely on just having one of the best few core cards and an extremely adaptable playstyle...they actually need good cards now...what a tragedy, I know.

It's acutally kind of baffling how much garbage there is in the Rogue base set. They really got carried by just a handful of really good cards for quite a long time.

Shaman

"But if you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all"

I might be pessimistic here, but Shaman really doesn't seem to notably change. Most of the unplayable junk got rightfully axed, Lightning Storm is now an actual card and a few of the Overload cards are no longer stupidly overbalanced and Draenei Totemcarver is here to remind you that she needs a 1-cost Hero Power to be anywhere close to playable.

The only notable addition is Tidal Surge because it finally gives some basic healing to Shaman so they no longer exclusively rely on whatever gimmick the first expansion of the year throws at them.

What really bothers me is the removal of both Bloodlust and Lava Burst. Essentially, your finishers are now limited to Doomhammer or Windlord shenanigans, the latter of which got buffed by an astounding 1 health, surely making him a force to be reckoned with and a true terror when combined with the infamous Crazed Alchemist tech (heavy sarcasm is implied).

The fact that Windfury sticks around leads me to believe that we might be going into the direction of midrange Shaman that establishes a fat beater and then doubletaps you for lethal

Oh and Spell Damage Totem got replaced by Strength Totem which completely fucks up the 4 elements theme without actually improving anything (you could have at least called it Fartwind Totem or something you dickweeds).

Warlock

Eternal rival of Paladin in the category of having the worst base set...apprently felt really nostalgic because they didn't get much better.

While proven veterans like Possessed Villager and a buffed Drain Soul are certainly a welcome sight, others are not so much.

For one, removing both Voidwalker and Soulfire seriously cripples the baseline that made Zoo the reliable fallback whenever the janky control builds didn't work out.

Tiny Knight of Evil and Lakkari Felhound are just kind of strange. Granted, the buff to Felhound makes it a lot more predictable but I doubt Discolock will ever be worth playing, even with further support (and I played a lot of Discolock during Rumble).

For some godforsaken reason that I can only interpret as a practical joke Fiendish Circle has made its grand return, ignoring the fact that it was hilariously pointless even in the super low power Witchwood expansion and is basically just a 4 mana 4/4 making it much worse than the similarly returning Grim Necromancer...which is a neutral. The only payoff so far is the new Ritual of Doom, which, admittedly, is a pretty strong card, although I'd be hesitant to call it good enough to warrant including Circle.

Additionally, Dread Infernal insisted on sticking around despite being one of the most pointless things since Freeze Shaman

Felsoul Jailer is a card that exists to piss of your opponent. It probably does that well so I'll let it slide.

Enslaved Fel Lord is a tiny ray of hope for a return to grindy big demon Warlock. It works well with a lot of existing cards and indicates that this archetype will get much more support which is good news.

Everyone's favourite Eredar Lord of the Burning Legion Lord Jaraxxus also got a makeover. Unfortunately you can't fix chronic 9-mana disease so despite the fortunate removal of the 15 HP limit he might still be a tad too slow considering that you can't even hero power the same turn you play him. Maybe Strongman can alleviate those problems.

Oh yeah Void Terror is still here and Nerubian Egg is back, so maybe that will fix Zoo.

Warrior

At this point I'm getting very much tired of writing and Warrior has never been a favourite of mine so I'll make this short: Barely anything has changed. Brawl is still around (please fucking kill me), so is Shield Slam, Armorsmith, Whirlwind and Execute, meaning Control Warrior won't change because why start now. The only real loss is Shield Block (which just means we'll get different ways to gain armor and draw) and Battle Rage. Losing Inner Rage hurts combo builds, but since Bloodsworn Mercenary is rotating anways we're just back to square one.

OUt of all the cards you wouldn't have expected to stick around, Warsong Commander did...and now she'S actually good. Being a 3-mana Houndmaster Shaw is nothing to be laughed at. We'll probably seeing her a lot more. What a redemption arc.

As for new cards: Shieldmaiden is a nice throwback but probably too slow, War Cache just exists in case you need more cards, Warsong Outrider is actually pretty good for being essentially just a beefed up vanilla.

Only Bloodsail Deckhand sticks out by being just a really good card in general (2-mana Fiery War Axe is back baby) and making me think unclean thoughts.

Warrior just generally seems unaffected. It lost the most janky cards and gained only very basic stuff. I was personally hoping for a replacement of Brawl but I guess that'll have to wait until next year. The only real change is that they now completely lack reliable draw in the core set meaning future decks will depend highly on their available draw options.

Neutrals

There's not that much to say about the vast majority. It all comes down to three categories:

-vanilla stats for reference

-tribal and mechanical support

-tech cards

A few odd outliers like Young Priestess and Voodoo Doctor snuck in there for reasons unknown. Also Bloodfen Raptor got yeeted but [Hearthstone Card (River Crokolisk) Not Found] stuck around. I'm assuming that's because we'll get some 3/2 powercreep beast somewhere down the line, but it still feels wrong to tear the two apart...they're like best friends...in that they both never get out of the collection.

There are also some unexpected remnants like King Mukla and Gurubashi Berserker.

More exciting are some of the returning cards like Stoneskin Basilisk (dangerous in a world where Rush is much more easily applied), Clockwork Giant (seeing how all the giants are OP in one way or another, picking the worst one was probably a good choice) and Baron Rivendare (who probably goes great with the similarly returning Nerubian Egg)

For some reason Barrens Stablehand stuck around. I guess some people just want to pay 7 aman for their Stonetusk Boar.

There are a few other returners and some stat buffs but none of them really seemed that relevant to me (except for maybe Big Game Hunter who at 4-mana is a lot more relevant for classes without access to efficient single target removals, e. g. Paladin)

Regarding the new legendaries, here's a quick roundup:

Overlord Runthak looks underwhelming, but at the very least allows handbuff strategies to have a centerpiece.

Taelan Fordring is puzzling, but could be interesting in decks that look for very specific minions. It's certainly playable if the payoff is good.

Nozdormu the Eternal is the giga meme

[Hearthstone Card (Alexstrasza the Lifebinder) Not Found] is a good finisher for control decks that need one...but will only be relevant if nothing better is available.

Malygos the Spellweaver is usefull in certain classes, but probably nothing worth worrying about....no deck has ever been able to really shit all over you by ramping to 10 and then vomiting spells, right?

Onyxia the Broodmother is actually good if you get to her and they opponent is out of big removals. Otherwise she's just filler.

Ysera the Dreamer is legitimately powerful and shouldn't be underestimated. She's a lot of ressources wrapped into a single card, meaning that any control deck that has space for her will probably run her until she gets outclassed.

Deathwing is just a better version of his former self, I won't even spell out his whole name, that's how boring he is.

Oh and btw Gadgetzan Auctioneer is still around, so have fun with that.

Regarding the rotating neutrals, only Sea Giant, Harrison Jones, Captain Greenskin and Twilight Drake really stick out. NOne of these cards are really essential for any deck so I doubt they'll be missed.

Only Questing Adventurer really stings for Rogue, but then again, those fuckers had it way too good for way too long.

Oh and rest in peace Silverback Patriarch. You carried the game for too long, it's time to rest.

Conclusions

So that's basically my take on the whole thing. Overall I'm pretty happy with how they decided to handle things even though there are some questionable choices (which may be explained once we see the rest of the expansions). In any case, if things go really wrong and cards just don't work like they're supposed to they can always nerf or buff them at will and won't have to worry about refunds.

Anyways, I did my thing, got it off my mind, now you get to sift through all this bullshit and tell me if I actually made sense at all.

Hi folks, 

Just wanted to chit chat a little about the impact of the nerfs in standard.
They are online for a couple days now and first statistics are rolling in.

A quick look on HS Replay shows a rather balanced playfield (i don't have access to diamond and legend data though).
The clear winners this time are paladin and hunter, followed by a majority of the classes pivoting around the 50% mark with only druids and priests at the bottom.

What amazes me the most is the huge decline of shamans. What a single attack point on a weapon can do is truly impressive.
This decline in winrate might be biaised though since many people disenchanted their bonespine knuckels and picked up more experimental shaman decks like aggro, highlander or OTK. 

However, this shows how cutthroat the fight for the top of the tierlist is and how little the differences in powerlevel can be.
A multitude of decks have popped up in diamond wich results in a surprisingly entertaining ladder experience (for me).
Different versions of warlocks, hunters, paladins, warriors ... A ton of decks seem viable. 

My prefered lists right now are OTK/deck of lunacy mage and ETC warrior.
It's been quit a while since some true OTK decks have been this viable! 

What are your first impressions and what decks work best for you? 
Do you think Hunters and/or Paladins will become as opressive as shamans were? 

So what is everyone experiencing after the 'Apology Patch'?

I've seen a ton of control warlocks.  I don't think Demon Hunter was killed off, but I guess the perception is that people believe it was killed, cause I haven't seen a single DH since the patch hit.  A bunch of druids, warlocks, and paladins, oh and shaman.

Hey folks, who is up for some good old meta discussion? 
It’s the third ladder climb in the Scholomance academy and I gotta say, there are still some things to discover! 

We all know the top dogs by now. Different variations of hunter, libram paladin, tempo mage, a couple rogues and DH of course.

In grand masters, druid and bomb warrior see a lot of play but I haven’t seen either of those in probably 20-30 games on ladder. Tbh, I don’t know how good these decks are right now. It may be just a tournament meta thing..

To spice things up, I prefer playing T2 or even T3 decks and I am time and time again surprised how strong those decks can be! Currently I am having minor success (but success nonetheless!) with big warrior. I had pretty good runs with Galakrond warlock and spell shaman as well the last couple weeks. To clarify, I’m generally ending the season around the legend ranks 2-5k, and use these decks to climb in diamond.

I can highly suggest, checking out those underdogs more often. For once, I think there are hidden a couple real gems that are immensely underrepresented. 
And second, it’s baffling how many opponents struggle against unknown decks. The amount of misplays i witnessed after playing bulwark of Azinot is way to high.

What are your experiences on ladder? Any decks to recommend? Any decks you struggle to beat? 

With the end of the season here, I pose a question.

On NA servers, what is the anticipated cut off for 11x Bonus Stars? Also, are you required to finish the season at that rank/MMR, or can you still get that bonus if you drop rank after hitting high legend?

Thanks!

I just climbed with a murloc deck from Platin 9 to Diamond 10 and encountered several Demon Hunters who just played badly. About two-thirds of them didn't read the card texts, and cleared Murloc Warleaders or Grimscale Oracles last, after taking unnecessary amounts of damage and losing minions to the extra +2 or +1 attack. One even played [Hearthstone Card (Warglaives of Azzinoth) Not Found] and cleared 4 murlocs, the Murloc Warleader last!

This made me wondering, how the Match making is done. Is the upper end of Platin still very low skilllevel, or is skilllevel just an euphemism for winrate? So instead of some weigthening algorithm, that evaluates how the player compares against decks of the same strength, MMR is just done by deck strength alone? Does anyone know more about the new MMR, and how strong decks play a role in this?

(I say Baku because I'm pretty sure Even decks wouldn't even be a thing anymore if Genn was still in Standard. Would they? Everything that was pulling the Even decks together all rotated out anyway before the Odd/Even stuff got HoF'd and I just don't see how they'd go on without those tools. Then again, I can't say I ever tried that hard to find a way to salvage them, so the world will never know.)

ANYWAY.

What it says on the tin, basically. We're in that annual month-before-rotation lull we always get into and even though it shouldn't feel quite as bad as last year where so many OP cards just overstayed their welcome (and it doesn't!) I'd be lying to you if I told you I'm still finding Standard engaging. I'm not saying the Galakrond's Awakening mini-expac didn't shake things up a bit, it absolutely did and gave us a new champion in Dragon Hunter, but at the end of the day... eh. It's still all the same decks, and I'm just so desperate for some variety that I'd gladly take Odd Warrior or Paladin or Mage or whatever back.

...And it's weird that I expect a rotation to fix all of this, you know? As I've covered before: so many cards got shut out of the meta it barely even FEELS like we're going to rotate.

Like, I'm 95% certain that the HOF cards are going to make a bigger impact than the actual set rotation. Barely exaggerating. Maybe a little. But not much. Depends on what they actually decide to cut, but remember folks, you heard it here first.

But despite my lack of a reason to believe so, I do, because... this is just how it goes, we've been through this long enough that we know the routine. The game gets boring and stale right before the rotation, and poof, all of a sudden we're in a whole new world. I don't expect AS drastic of a change this year, largely because you really CAN'T get much different than going from Year of the Mammoth to the Rise of Shadows expac with no more death knights running around, but I think Blizz will come through for us, especially with all this hype from people who were at the recent summit.

So no, this isn't a salt thread by any means. Just the usual, bored with the game around this time of year. But I already know I'll be dropping cash to complete the new Expansion on the day it comes out, so I'll try to hang in there, grind out my daily quests, and just wait for the news to motivate me a little more.

How are the rest of y'all handling the rotation countdown blues? Do you agree it's a lot better this year? Do you feel Galakrond's Awakening did enough to keep the game fresh for the extra month and a half or so before the new year begins?

So I got tired to reading all the hate that people have had about Galakrond Shaman and decided to try playing it and ... WOW... that hate is pretty well deserved.  

I went into the deck completely blind and missing one Dragon's Pack, and I went on a 7 game winning streak.  I know that typically, the initial hate for a class goes to Hunter.  As a person that is adamantly against Hunter, I'm always up for Hunter being nerfed to the point where the class is eliminated.  But that is me.  

I honestly wanted to take the stance of, "This is just the initial release and there is always hate against the more aggro decks because combo and control has yet to be established." But man, that deck has a lot of synergy and flows really well.  

That being said, I honestly don't think that any one particular card would hinder the way that the deck functions.  I have read a number of threads where people are putting all the hate on 1-3 cards.  But really, the fact that you can summon a few 2/1 rush minions to help control the board, along with all the stuff that thunderhead can produce is kind of sickening.  

I just had to throw my astonishment out there to let those that hate the initial deck have valid concerns..  That's all