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Defining Complexity, Depth, and 'Design Space'

Hey all!

I rarely start new threads here, but there was a bit of confusion regarding recent comments I made about complexity in card design, and since my comments had low visibility, and I thought the larger audience would find it interesting, here I am!

Defining Complexity and Depth

Complexity is different than Strategic Depth. For example, 'Whirlwind' is very simple. So is 'Acolyte of Pain'. So is 'Frothing Berserker'. Together, these cards were part of one of the most strategically difficult decks to play in our history. Hearthstone, and its individual cards, are at their best when we have plenty of strategic depth, but low complexity.

You can sometimes get more depth by adding more complexity, but I actually think that cards with the highest ratio of depth to complexity are the best designs. That doesn't mean we won't explore complex designs, but it does mean that they have a burden to add a lot of strategic depth, to help maximize that ratio.

My least favorite card designs are those that are very complex, but not very strategically deep. "Deal damage to a minion equal to it's Attack minus its Health divided by the number of Mana Crystals your opponent has. If an adjacent minion has Divine Shield or Taunt, double the damage. If your opponent controls at least 3 minions with Spell Damage, then you can't deal more damage than that minion has Health." BLECH.

At any rate, making cards more complicated is easy. Making them Strategically Deep is more difficult. Making them simple and deep is the most challenging, and where I think we should be shooting. It's important to note that an individual design doesn't necessarily need to be 'deep' on its own. Hearthstone has a lot of baked in complexity and depth: 'Do I Hero Power or play this card?' 'Do go for board control or pressure their hero?' And often (as in the case of Whirlwind) a card's depth exists because of how it is used in combination with other cards. Creating simple blocks that players can combine for greater strategic depth is one of the ways we try and get that high ratio of depth to complexity.

Defining 'Design Space'

Sometimes we talk about 'design space'. Here's a good way to think of it: Imagine all vanilla (no-text) minions. Like literally, every possible one we could make. Everything from Wisp to Faceless Behemoth. Even accounting for balance variation (i.e. 5-mana 6/6 (good) and 5-mana 4/4 (bad)), there are a limited number of minions in that list. Once we've made every combination of them - that's it! We couldn't make any more without reprinting old ones. That list is the complete list of 'design space' for vanilla minions.

The next level of design space would be minions with just keywords on them (Windfury, Stealth, Divine Shield, etc). There are many cards to be made with just keywords, and some are quite interesting. Wickerflame Burnbristle is fascinating, especially because of how he interacts with the Goons mechanic. But eventually (without adding more keywords), this space will be fully explored as well.

When you plan for a game to exist forever, or even just when it's time to invent new cards, thinking about what 'design space' you have remaining to explore is important.

Some day (far in the future), it's conceivable that all the 'simple but strategically deep' designs have been fully explored, and new Hearthstone cards will need to have 6-10 lines of text to begin exploring new space. I believe that day is very, very far off. I believe we can make very interesting cards and still make them simple enough to grasp without consulting a lawyer.

Some design space is technically explorable, but isn't fun. "Your opponent discards their hand." "When you mouse-over this card, you lose." "Minions can't be played the rest of the game." "Whenever your opponent plays a card, they automatically emote 'I am a big loser.'" "Charge"

Sometimes design space could be really fun, but because other cards exist, we can't explore it. Dreadsteed is an example of a card that couldn't exist in Warrior or Neutral, due to the old Warsong Commander design. (in this case we made Dreadsteed a Warlock card) The Grimy Goons mechanic is an example that couldn't exist in the same world as the Warrior Charge Spell and Enraged Worgen. (in this case we changed the 'Charge' spell)

In a sense, every card both explores and limits 'design space'. The fact that Magma Rager exists means we can't make this: "Give Charge to a minion with 5 Attack and 1 Health, then sixtuple it's Attack." That's not very useful (or fun) design space, and so that tradeoff is acceptable. However, not being able to make neutral minions with game-changing static effects (like Animated Armor or Mal'ganis) because of Master of Disguise... that felt like we were missing out on lots of very fun designs. We ended up changing Master of Disguise for exactly that reason.

Cards that severely limit design space can sometimes be fine in rotating sets, because we only have to design around them while they are in the Standard Format, as long as they aren't broken in Wild. Because Wild will eventually have so many more cards than Standard, the power level there will be much higher. Most of that power level will come from synergies between the huge number of cards available, so sometimes being 'Tier 1' in Standard means that similar strategies are a couple tiers lower in Wild. We're still navigating what Wild balance should be like. It's allowed to be more powerful, but how much more powerful?

I think defining these kinds of terms helps us have more meaningful discussions about where we are doing things right, and where we have room to improve. Looking forward to reading your comments!

-- Brode


  • Ben Brode

    Posted 9 years, 8 months ago (Source)

    I'm not sure new players lose a lot more because their cards are worse. We work hard to send them to fight AI opponents (which they usually defeat), and then the vast majority enter 'Casual', where we match them only against other new players with small collections.

    I also think there is value to starting players at a lower power level, and letting them feel the progression of earning new cards slowly over time. If those cards aren't clearly better than the ones you have, it might not be enough to encourage you to go edit your deck, which I think is one of the biggest humps to get new players past.

    Important addendum - we still have much work to do for the players who decide to venture into Ranked too early.

  • Ben Brode

    Posted 9 years, 8 months ago (Source)

    Yes, but I'm not really sure what to do about it, except to hope folks like you correct it when you see it. Thanks!

  • Ben Brode

    Posted 9 years, 8 months ago (Source)

    I think both can be not-very-fun, but here's why I think they are different: 'Little Victories'.

    Hearthstone is, at it's core, a 1v1 game. Someone wins, and someone loses. Losing is not very fun. However, Hearthstone provides lots of opportunities for you to feel as if you've done something awesome, or had a moment of victory during the game, even if you lose the greater battle.

    "I may have lost the game, but at least I got to play Jaraxxus."

    Put another way, it feels good to play Tirion. It doesn't matter if you win or lose the game, there is positive emotion when you hear the chorus chant and see him crack the board. That emotion isn't erased even if you lose the game later.

    Discarding cards from your opponent's hand steals those little victories from them. I don't get to play my cards at all. I don't even get to do anything. I just get to watch you do your stuff.

    In some cases, being run over by early game cards can feel similar. However, you can usually play a few cards and destroy a few minions, and that does soften the blow of defeat. In either case, you don't get to slam Tirion, though, and so losing to aggro can be a frustrating experience.

  • Ben Brode

    Posted 9 years, 8 months ago (Source)

    I did a video about why we usually don't buff cards. Hope it helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ioY1KO79A

  • Ben Brode

    Posted 9 years, 8 months ago (Source)

    I tend to like some parasitic designs, but I don't think we should do them exclusively. C'Thun was also a fun parasitic design.

  • Ben Brode

    Posted 9 years, 8 months ago (Source)

    While "clown fiesta" is the driving goal for most of our decision-making, we would actually like Wild to be balanced. The problem is defining what 'balanced' means in that mode, because the power-level will always be much higher than in Standard. Does it mean all classes are at 50% and see exact equal play? Does it mean Freeze Mage is the best class but there are 4 other archetypes at tier 2? How frequently should we be balancing cards there?

    There is a lot to learn about the right way to approach Wild, and what the expectations are from players who like to play there. It's something we'll need to figure out over time.

  • Ben Brode

    Posted 9 years, 8 months ago (Source)

    my apologies




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