Hearthstone
Reality check: Core isn't saving everyone money
I recently stumbled across this passage in an InvenGlobal article, and it left me shaking my head:
Quote From InvenGlobal By making the upcoming Core Set free to all players, Blizzard is looking to invite new players into their Hearthstone ecosystem while giving old players who have spent a great deal of money on the game a little break from opening their wallets.
"A little break from opening their wallets"? In what way, exactly? After all, old players who have spent a great deal of money on the game already had complete Classic collections. Hell, even free players who have been around since launch probably had all the Classic cards they would ever need. This move to a Core set does absolutely nothing for veteran players in terms of saving money, and it's disturbing how often I see the lie repeated.
Don't get me wrong: I think the Core set is a great move, a necessary move, for the game. I'm definitely looking forward to a meta that will get refreshed on an annual basis, adding even more meaning to the "Year of ..." paradigm. But can we please stop pretending this is some kind of cost savings for those of us who have actually supported the game for nearly seven years?
Now let's talk about Classic mode. Yes, some people are excited about it. How long that excitement can continue in a mode that is static by definition remains to be seen. But make no mistake: Blizzard didn't do this because they saw a demand for it. Basically no one was asking for anything like Classic mode, and if they were, it was a very tiny minority. Classic mode had to happen because the Core set is about to remove the one very large chunk of every Standard player's assets they could always count on, and Blizzard would have looked fairly villainous if they'd relegated all those cards to Wild and given nothing back. So now we have yet another "apology" game mode that requires no upkeep at Blizzard's end and that will see only a small fraction of the play Standard gets. But hey, at least they did something, right?
Again, I'm not even mad at the business decisions. They did what they had to do to move forward. I'm just pointing out the reality behind Activision's PR propaganda as they try to spin this in a more celebratory direction. The Core set, in and of itself, is worthy of celebration. The virtual removal of 373 cards from your collection is not. It is a necessary evil, and I think it's important to remember that 240 of those cards were not free. Making the Core set free to all isn't generosity; it's actually the very least Blizzard can do.
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I recently stumbled across this passage in an InvenGlobal article, and it left me shaking my head:
"A little break from opening their wallets"? In what way, exactly? After all, old players who have spent a great deal of money on the game already had complete Classic collections. Hell, even free players who have been around since launch probably had all the Classic cards they would ever need. This move to a Core set does absolutely nothing for veteran players in terms of saving money, and it's disturbing how often I see the lie repeated.
Don't get me wrong: I think the Core set is a great move, a necessary move, for the game. I'm definitely looking forward to a meta that will get refreshed on an annual basis, adding even more meaning to the "Year of ..." paradigm. But can we please stop pretending this is some kind of cost savings for those of us who have actually supported the game for nearly seven years?
Now let's talk about Classic mode. Yes, some people are excited about it. How long that excitement can continue in a mode that is static by definition remains to be seen. But make no mistake: Blizzard didn't do this because they saw a demand for it. Basically no one was asking for anything like Classic mode, and if they were, it was a very tiny minority. Classic mode had to happen because the Core set is about to remove the one very large chunk of every Standard player's assets they could always count on, and Blizzard would have looked fairly villainous if they'd relegated all those cards to Wild and given nothing back. So now we have yet another "apology" game mode that requires no upkeep at Blizzard's end and that will see only a small fraction of the play Standard gets. But hey, at least they did something, right?
Again, I'm not even mad at the business decisions. They did what they had to do to move forward. I'm just pointing out the reality behind Activision's PR propaganda as they try to spin this in a more celebratory direction. The Core set, in and of itself, is worthy of celebration. The virtual removal of 373 cards from your collection is not. It is a necessary evil, and I think it's important to remember that 240 of those cards were not free. Making the Core set free to all isn't generosity; it's actually the very least Blizzard can do.
The primary purpose of the Core Set is to anchor class themes for the year and provide a fresh baseline for the play experience, but it has the added benefit of upping the baseline power level of the "base set" of Hearthstone's Standard format. The result should be a higher percentage of meta-relevant/competitive cards in the set relative to the current Evergreen Basic/Classic sets (e.g. even classically powerful cards like Al'Akir the Windlord and Lord Jaraxxus haven't seen play in ages.). Because the Core Set is free, and will be regularly refreshed, the net result should be a decrease in the "necessary annual spend" in order to get one or more meta decks constructed.
It's certainly true that this is a much bigger boon for new players and players who never had a full set of Classic cards, but it's being positioned as financially better for all players because of this "upping the baseline." Perhaps, once the full set is out and people get their hands on it, people will find that it does not have a higher percentage of "playable" cards, and therefore doesn't save veteran players any money. But Blizzard's intent on this is clear. From Celestalon's Q&A - "Since Core is refreshed each year, we can make Core cards more consistently impactful and relevant to the current meta." The Basic and Classic sets have seen a ton of hall-of-fames and nerfs to keep them from crowding out expansion cards year after year after year, but that doesn't have to happen any more, so we can expect these cards to be better/more relevant. Getting relevant cards for free drives down the cost of the game.
There's probably some truth to this, but I think it's also worth noting that this format is consistent with the promise of the wild format - namely, "you get to play the classic decks you loved, just like you remember them." This is why they'd been un-nerfing some cards when they got Hall-of-Famed, and the Classic mode offers an opportunity to make good on that promise without causing balance issues in Wild (or any future format that allows for Basic and Classic cards).
While I see your point, there are a few things we should add to the equation here:
The rotating core set can help veteran players save money. If you are given a set of free, useful cards every year, then you won't be as obliged to buy expansion cards. Will you still need to buy expansion cards to stay competitive? Absolutely. But the average player will now be able to get buy playing decent decks for fewer dollars.
The Classic mode doesn't seem like an apology mode to me, I don't even know what they are apologizing for. The classic set is so bad that I really don't think anyone will miss it. Some people may be upset since they paid for those cards and now they aren't in standard anymore, but I imagine that is a very small group of people. Most players probably collected classic cards via tavern brawls and maybe a few hundred gold pieces when they were new. And even if you did spend money on the classic set, you'd still be happy with it being replaced by actually playable cards. My guess is that they made the Classic mode simply as a way of giving these otherwise useless cards a place to be used.
I don't know what you mean by "the reality behind Activision's PR propaganda as they try to spin this in a more celebratory direction". To most people, this is a genuinely good thing that should be celebrated. And again, the "virtual" removal of 373 useless cards in favor of 240 good cards is not a bad thing. Nobody will miss their classic collection. And if they really do, then they can always play one of the several modes where those cards are still playable.
Carrion, my wayward grub.
As I repeated several times, I do think the Core set itself is worth celebrating.
But I'm not talking about most people. I'm not talking about the average player. I don't know why you're bringing those people up. This has thread nothing to do with them.
I'm talking about people who have been around since launch, who did spend a considerable chunk of money on Classic. Those people may not miss the Legacy cards themselves, but those cards used to be called "evergreen" for a reason. For better or worse, Blizzard's original statement when Standard rotations began was that Classic would always be in Standard. Turns out it was for the worse, and I would never dispute that -- evergreen is clearly bad for the game. But that's why the new Classic mode is an apology. They are canceling hundreds of cards that were supposed to be permanent.
And again, I'm not saying it's wrong or a bad decision. I'm just saying it's kind of stupid that these articles keep saying it's a boon to the wallets of veteran players when that is clearly not the case.
Modalko does make a good point about Tavern Brawls. It will be a nice boost when those start rewarding expansion packs. Wait, wait, wait. No. Tavern Brawl rewards are a completely separate issue. Those could and should have been changed with or without the shift to Core. Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I also cannot agree that it's a benefit to be able to dust Legacy cards, however. Dungeon Runs, Tavern Brawls, and even Duels have shown that strip mining your collection can have terrible repercussions.
By removing Classic set, they automatically trashing a great deal of time (and some money) I had collecting all those cards. And I can't push this enough, that every player should be compensated for that (or at least get the same amount of dusts for all those cards). And I don't think I'm asking a lot, because getting a fourth (1/4) of dust from a set that's been around for years is inadequate.
EDIT. Turns out, the dust gain is even less than a 1/4, since all Common is valued at 1/8, and Rares at 1/5.
Knowledge is Power
You're compensated by having both your old cards (which you can dust) and getting the new core set for free.
When we made the decision to purchase at a point of time, and that product later gets discounted or retired, I don't think its even remotely logical to then demand for compensation, especially since we're talking about products that have existed way beyond 1 year.
If I understand you right, you're suggesting that this is economically bad for veteran players because they've already spent a lot of money on their full Classic collection, which they were told would be evergreen in Hearthstone. If that's what you're arguing, then your argument is based on the sunk cost fallacy. Any money veteran players have spent on their Classic collection is gone, so at the point that you've collected a full collection of Classic cards, the only economic question left in the game is whether or not you're going to keep spending money on future expansions. To suggest otherwise is to assert that the sunk cost of having a full Classic set should weigh in on your present economic choices, which it plainly shouldn't.
So, if the Core Set enables you to make a meta deck with a higher percentage of "Core" cards (i.e. Evergreen cards today, Core soon) than before without costing you a cent, then you have fewer expansion cards you need to buy or craft to build your deck, and can therefore save money and in-game resources that you might have otherwise spent. This is why the Core set is economically positive for all players. The Tavern Brawl thing is an added (and long overdue) bonus on top of that, but it's not strictly necessary.
The other part of your argument that I think might merit some attention is this idea that Blizzard promised that these cards would be evergreen. No one ever bemoans the fact that expansion sets rotate (even though this same complaint could just as easily be lobbed at annual Standard rotations) because we expect those sets to rotate. Ultimately, though, I think the question you have to ask is "would knowing that this set would rotate five years after it became the evergreen Standard set have changed your behavior?" At some level, that's a personal question each player would have to answer for themselves, but I think there are two things worth noting about the question generally. First, in those five years you could have picked up 260 classic packs for free from Tavern Brawls. Second, buying into five years of the evergreen set would probably still yield a fair value when compared to a single year of an expansion set. It's hard for me to believe knowing the Classic set only had a five-year run ahead of it would have changed anything that anyone did.
So, to the extent that you feel this is unfair to veteran players, and that some refund is due for anyone who spent money on the Classic set because of this promise, I guess all I can say is "get over it." For any player who enjoyed their time playing Classic cards, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that they're owed something simply because those cards are rotating, and new players won't have to buy into the Classic set in the future. Some of the first cards I crafted were Sylvanas Windrunner and Ragnaros the Firelord because of how powerful they were, and they were among the first cards to be Hall-of-Famed. I didn't think Blizzard owed me anything because I had enjoyed all of the time I had spent playing those cards and gotten my money's worth out of them.
You do not understand me right. In fact, you just put a very long wall of text into my mouth. Perhaps you think I share H0lySatan's opinions. I do not, and it would save everyone a lot of time if you would avoid conflating the opinions of different people you disagree with.
I never said it's unfair to veteran players. I said it's not a boon to veteran players, as it is so often being described in articles around the net. There's a huge difference between "unfair" (your words) and "not really a financial benefit" (my words).
And I certainly never said a refund was due to anyone. I merely pointed out that certain assets -- assets that were once believed to have ongoing value in Standard -- no longer hold value. That's not a sunk-cost fallacy. That's the truth, whether you paid for the cards or got them from Brawls. But I'm not asking for anything back because (as I very clearly stated) I recognize that this is a necessary evil of letting the game move forward from the mire of evergreen nonsense. And, of course, it's true that soon-to-be Legacy cards seem to decrease in value every year anyway as expansions become more powerful. I grant all of that, but it's still worth mentioning as an unfortunate side effect.
So once again, for those who think they know my opinion better than I do: CORE SET GOOD, but we don't need to pretend veteran players are coming out ahead. No compensation asked or expected. No claims that Blizzard is an evil empire out to get me. Just stop saying that Core makes the game cheaper for long-term players who were never again going to need to spend additional money on Classic cards anyway.
Even just dusting all the golden basic cards will net you nearly 9 legendaries worth of dust! I plan on keeping the rest because I do play Wild, and want to check out the Classic mode, but even just those golden basic cards will amount to some good savings. I could save the dust to get some of the new cards I miss or maybe use it as an investment towards older cards I always wanted but never opened.
Quick! Someone give me something clever to write here.
This is getting off topic now, but I'd like to talk about dusting policy if somebody's interested. As far as I know, classic cards will still be available in the new Classic Mode and in Wild, so dusting them is possible but should be considered wisely in case you need them for one or both of those modes.
I'm not so sure about Basic cards though. Are you sure it will be possible to dust them? I somehow remember having read that it isn't. If you're right, that's really great news!
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
I've wondered this too. Yes we could when basic cards got hall of famed, but this is a different situation.
Hope we can, but I'm not counting my dust until it's hatched. (or something that makes sense there).
All generalizations are false.
There's no longer such a thing as a Basic set. Former Basic cards are now part of the Legacy set and are craftable and disenchantable. I still advise against it.
What we're talking about are golden copies of the former Basic cards. That should be the group of cards that could net quite some dust for the majority of players IF it is possible to disenchant them. Which I strongly doubt to be honest.
The non-golden copies of former Basic cards are a different topic, since they might be useful in the new Classic mode, Wild or a future game mode we don't know about yet.
We should also keep in mind that they'll all be converted to common cards, so even if it is possible to disenchant them, you won't get rich unless your class levels are high and/or you commit to only ever play Standard (which advise against as well).
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
I apologize if you think I'm putting words in your mouth. I merely meant to state my understanding of your argument explicitly as an anchor for my counterargument. I understand full well that you think the Core Set is good for the game, and did not mean to suggest otherwise.
My point in bringing up the notion of a refund was merely to point out that most people who have a full Classic set have already derived a great deal of value from the resources they've spent to get it. This gets at a question of fairness, which I believe is implicit in any notion that this change is worse for some players and not others (in this case, veteran players with full Classic sets and not new players).
That I appeared to be conflating opinions is mere coincidence. I started writing this post well before H0lySatan posted, but was delayed in finishing it until much later. I hadn't even read that post before providing my view.
I think you've largely side-stepped my point about sunk cost by saying that the value of these Classic cards has decreased. That's entirely true, but has nothing to do with the sunk cost fallacy. The sunk cost fallacy is treating the value of a veteran player's full set of Classic cards as a relevant input for the decision to spend money on Hearthstone expansions simply because they've spent resources (money, time, etc.) on getting it. Perhaps if they were taking away the Classic set without replacing it, you could make that case; that would mean you'd need even more cards from the expansion to build good decks, which would very obviously drive up the cost.
But because they're replacing it, the Classic set's value is irrelevant to the decision to buy into an expansion/spend more time playing Hearthstone - this is true regardless of whether you've sunk money or time or both into it, and it's true regardless of whether it has lost or gained value as a set. Only the value of the new Core Set can be used to inform whether Hearthstone is getting more or less expensive (i.e. whether you'll need more or fewer expansion cards to make a good deck in Standard). Blizzard has been clear that their aim is to make the Core Set more relevant to the metagame than the Classic and Basic sets are today, so that should result in lower costs moving forward for every player.
If i didnt know better i could be under the impression that my classic cards are gonna be removed. Which they aren't cause Wild is still a game mode and a fun one sometimes.
So i keep my classic cards while receiving a whole new set for free. Now thats profit
But I never said anything about decisions to buy more cards, so sunk cost is 100 percent beside the point. You're building straw man after straw man. It's better if you respond to my actual comments, not these anticipated counterarguments you keep concocting.
My only point here is that veteran players gain no immediate financial benefit from the introduction of a Core set. Several writers have stated or implied that they will, and that is incorrect. if you don't want to talk about that, please make your own thread.
As for the theory that the game might seem less expensive because Core cards will make up a larger proportion of any given deck, that is pure speculation, and very dubious at that. Expansion cards always have been and always will be stronger than base cards, and it is in Blizzard's best interest to continue that trend. If you're hoping to see a bunch of budget decks at the top of the tier list, I suspect you'll be disappointed.
These will get the same treatment as other Basic cards that went to HoF, such as Mind Blast. They will become Common cards and can be DE for normal values. I don’t know specifically where it was stated. Maybe in one of Dean’s recent Twitter Q&A’s. But again, when any previous Basic cards went to Wild they got Common gems and I DE’d the golden versions!
Also, the article announcing the Core set on the HS site states that if you have Wild unlocked at the time of rotation you will get all Basic cards and their golden versions. So if you were thinking of starting a new alt account, or have a friend thinking of starting their first, do it now before rotation to get a bunch of free Wild cards/dust. It’s in the second paragraph of the Introducing the Core Set section.
I was forcing DH games to try and get the last couple golden basic cards but after I noticed that line in the article I think I can relax and just play whatever I want, as I’ll get them anyway.
To get onto the actual topic, I actually think both sides of the argument have merit in terms of the Core set being a money saver or not. To FortyDust’s original point, this isn’t really a money saving move for players who play all formats, or at least it’s not a huge money saver!
Considering the points made by others, it does mean getting more relevant packs from Brawls, which can help a little for obtaining newer cards. And to my own point, even just dusting the golden Basic cards gets a decent amount of dust, which means you could potentially skip opening quite a few packs while getting the cards you want. But the dust is a one-time savings, maybe two depending on how many of it you spend in an expansion.
Ultimately, I think the largest impact on wallets will be seen by newer players, followed by players who only play Standard. For newer players, they’ll suddenly have a full Core set of cards that should actually matter. For long tome Standard only players, you’ve boosted your dust reserves by a very large amount!
For a player like me who plays Wild, Standard, and soon Classic, the savings is mainly a smaller dust boost from the golden basics and non-Classic Brawl rewards, which Is minimal in comparison to New and Standard only players. Which I think is what Forty was really trying to say.
Quick! Someone give me something clever to write here.
Okay, so your point is that the new core set isn't saving anyone money. You don't think it's bad, you don't think it is unfair, you simply think that it isn't saving veteran players money.
I disagree with that statement, here is why.
The current basic/classic set contains very few useful cards. Which means in order to build a decent deck (50% winrate or above) you will have to rely heavily on expansion cards, which cost money. If the new rotating core set gives players useful, playable cards for free, then you will need fewer expansion cards to build a decent deck. Meaning that you can get by climbing the ladder and winning matches for fewer dollars.
I get where you are coming from since taking away cards from players collections just to add cards to their collection for free doesn't really gain you anything, and there are still just as many expansions and mini-sets to purchase. But if the new core set gives players useful, playable cards then it means that the average player (whether veteran or new) will be required to spend fewer dollars on expansion cards to stay competitive.
Carrion, my wayward grub.
Frankly, I think I am responding to your comments directly with this question of sunk cost, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
With respect to your only point here - that veteran players gain no immediate financial benefit from the introduction of a Core set - that is a sufficiently narrow understanding of "cost of Hearthstone" that I actually agree with it. But I also think it's an utterly useless way to discuss the cost of the game, which is why you don't see any of these articles using that framing. Instead they're talking about the typical understanding of "cost of Hearthstone" - that is, the cost over time to stay current with the metagame. You could make the same "no immediate benefit" argument with respect to players with full collections and the recent duplicate protection changes - after all, they have all the current cards and don't derive immediate value from duplicate protection - but no one believes that duplicate protection has no benefit to veteran players because eventually they'll be opening more packs and trying to stay up-to-date with an evolving meta.
Here's a more concrete example: imagine your local area is decreasing sales tax by 1% effective today. You might say that the sales tax decrease doesn't have any immediate benefit to you because you're not shopping today, but that's an arbitrary and disingenuous way to discuss the impact of such a change.
Similarly, the Core Set change has no immediate financial impact on players because they're not spending money on it. But so long as it decrease the ongoing costs of staying up-to-date with Hearthstone, it will benefit veteran and new players alike. That is what all of these articles are saying - over time, the cost of the game will go down thanks to this change.
That point has already been discussed, and I pointed out that it was pure speculation. You have no idea what the meta will be like or what the mix of cards will be in the top decks. Blizzard makes money by selling cards, so my thought is that it's a pretty safe bet the expansion cards are still going to fill the lion's shard of slots in most of the competitive decks.
Except everyone IS "shopping today" because we are comparing veteran players to newer players at the launch of an expansion at the beginning of a rotation. If anything is arbitrary and disingenuous, it's your irrelevant analogy.
The Core set does have an immediate financial impact on new players because they get a bunch of cards for free. That's the whole point, and it's great. But it doesn't help me personally because in a non-Core world, I already had all the non-expansion cards I would have needed. Giving me something for free that replaces something I already had is not a benefit.
And no, the articles are not saying anything about "over time." And no, you cannot definitively say the cost of the game will go down over time, anyway. Blizzard makes money by selling expansions. They are not going to make the Core set so powerful that it cuts in to expansion sales. Talk about disingenuous.
No one is saying that new players aren't getting a better deal out of this - I conceded as much in my original response. But new player and veteran player value are independent variables. Your complaint is with what you believe to be a misrepresentation of veteran player value in gaming media, so any comparisons to new player value only serves to conflate issues. This is exactly why I got into questions of fairness and refunds in an earlier post (not based on H0lySatan's post, as I mentioned) - you're using the difference between new player and veteran player value to claim misrepresentation, which implicitly brings up these questions of fair value to veteran players.
It's clear we're not ever going to see eye-to-eye on this, so I'm not going to continue to engage on this beyond this final post. The question of "will the cost of the game go down" is the heart of this issue here. It's clear you believe that switching from Classic/Basic sets to the new Core Set will be net-neutral in terms of what percentage of any given deck comes from "core cards" vs expansion cards, and therefore won't impact the cost of meta decks, which in turn means it won't impact the practical costs of keeping up with the meta after an expansion. If that's true, then the switch will certainly add zero economic value for any player who already had a full Classic set.
But as I've already cited in an earlier post, Celestalon has said we should expect the base power level of the Core Set to be higher than Classic/Basic because, as a rotating set, it can afford to be stronger than an evergreen set can without introducing long-term balance issues. Whether you choose to believe that Celestalon is honestly expressing the intent of the Hearthstone team is up to you, but if the Core Set is stronger than the Classic/Basic sets, the natural result will be a higher percentage of meta decks coming from core cards, which in turn makes it cheaper to keep up-to-date with the meta. That benefit is conferred on every player, veteran or not. And that is what people are putting forth in these articles - the idea that the Core Set will be stronger and more valuable than the Classic/Basic sets ever were.
Why would I hold to something that I can't play? I'm not a Wild player, And, Classic set will be unusable to me personally, because I can't play wild with only Classic set, so everything unusable to me is automatically dusted, which was the whole point I'm trying to say. And to tell the truth, I don't feel very 'compensated' with that ~1/4 value of my own collections. I owned all those cards, is it not fair if I get the same value out of my own collections?
And no, I'm only gonna discuss the classic set. I don't really have personal opinion on the Core set as of now. (whether it's good or bad)
Knowledge is Power
Well, we know what's in Core now, and all I have to say is LOL.
Can't we disenchant all our classic cards that will be on the core set though (88 cards)? I mean we will get them again for free, so this is some kind of value for old players.
For your question, it depends if you play Wild or not. All Basic & Classic set (will be called Legacy) will move out to Wild.
Feel free to dust your collection if you don't play Wild, since all cards from Core set is free. (obtainable only from progressive level of your hero up to 10)
Knowledge is Power
Tavern Brawl isn't saving anyone money just sto
Banned for spamming.
I really wonder that; Can you say those reasonings for a player who starts the game in january 2020 and buys great amount of Classic packs due to their evergreen guarantee? or crafted some classic legendaries with their very limited dust.
Just answer this question and then we will ok to agree that you will already enjoyed with what you bought well enough.
Veteran players who plays this game for 7 years may not even care for these core set changes just because they already enjoyed their product they bought but some players that started the game just bunch of weeks/months ago might have bought Classic packs just for they are evergreen. May be I don't deserve a compensation just because of that I already played with them for a lot of time but you can't say those comperatively new players who just bought great amount of classic packs deserve some compensation for reality.
If you sell products under the name of "evergreen" until the changes happen, even you make your users apply some ridiculous "terms of use" and "Blizzard can do any changes in any time without asking permission" rubbish, Even if it is not their right to ask legally just because they apply TOU ,You should give some compensation to those people ethically.
Don't get me wrong, I'm like you and I honestly think that I have already enjoyed what I bought in 7 years but it is the reality that some people bought some classic packs due to its evergreen statement not long ago. I have an acquaintance from web who did that in november and can't even played with those cards enough time. He bought those classic packs just because people around web advised him to do that because of its evergreen statement even if I told him it is blizzard and everything can change in one day.
Before defending some thoughts, please just try to evaluate all of the possibilities. I will repeat again, Maybe we - 7 years of users might not deserve compensation but some people really do.
Unpopular Opinion Incarnate