New Rogue Minion - Whirlkick Master

Submitted 4 years, 9 months ago by

A new Epic Rogue Minion, Whirlkick Master, has been revealed!

Whirlkick Master Card Image

Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!


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  • Arthas's Avatar
    Robot Black Lotus 1265 5754 Posts Joined 03/10/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    A new Epic Rogue Minion, Whirlkick Master, has been revealed!

    Whirlkick Master Card Image

    Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!


    Learn more about Saviors of Uldum

    Head on over to our dedicated guide for Saviors of Uldum!


    Get Cheaper Card Packs

    This section contains affiliate links.

    If you want to save money when buying Hearthstone packs, you should check out Amazon Coins! It's an easy way to save up to 25% off Hearthstone packs so you can get into the new expansion without worrying about your wallet too much. We've got a detailed guide on how to Get Started with Amazon Coins, but if you've already dealt with them in the past, you can buy some more by clicking right here.

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    0
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar
    Refreshment Vendor 880 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    I hear the call of the Miracle.

    2
  • Tofukozo's Avatar
    250 48 Posts Joined 07/15/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Sweet!!!

    0
  • drfelip's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 365 289 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Careful, it could give you Kidnapper and Defias Ringleader.

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

    0
  • icameron's Avatar
    150 42 Posts Joined 03/22/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Probably finds a home in some kind of midrange Spirit of the Shark rogue, but not much else. I think other rogues would either prefer to gain their card advantage through Gadgetzan Auctioneer/Sprint, or simply don't have room for low tempo cards like this.

    I always have a lot of decks during spoiler season if you want some ideas; remember, most of the internet would not function if there weren't plenty of users willing to volunteer their time to provide content and assistance for one another!

    0
  • Kovachut's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 675 756 Posts Joined 03/31/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    First off, I want to apologize to the admins for posting a hearthpwn link, but the OOC "collectible cards" page and its filter options aren't really user-friendly yet:

    https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-show-standard=y&filter-premium=1&filter-combo=1&display=3

    So in the link above you can see all combo cards available to rogue in standard (+ the newly revealed Hooked Scimitar). As much as I'm impressed by the card generation, I don't really think this card would fit in a miracle list. If your deck doesn't run pirates, Raiding Party is either a dead spell or an expensive tutor for one of your weapons. Kidnapper is slow (especially against aggro); Headcrack is only useful if the opponent is dangerously low on health. And Defias Ringleader and Cutthroat Buccaneer are kinda meh. The wild combo cards are mostly bad (with a few exceptions like Elven Minstrel, Vilespine Slayer, but the chances of getting those from all other possible options are few), so I don't want to talk about them. The rest of the generated outcomes are mostly good (when looking at Edwin VanCleef, EVIL Miscreant and Eviscerate), but only few of them are spells, so, again, I don't think that Whirlkick Master would fit in a miracle deck. She's more likely to clog your hand with mediocre or situational stuff.

    I'm eager to know where people would run this minion. Thief can generate you a lot of defensive spells and you can heal yourself with Spectral Cutlass (weak too ooze, but at least this has some direct synergies with other cards), so a value deck wouldn't be better than the Burgle archtype. As far as tempo decks go - the popular standard rogue lists are Hooktusk and Tempo, both of which should be satisfied with the Lackey generation, because it's faster and the outcome from it is cheap. So where else you play this in?

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  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    1-mana too expensive

    0
  • kaladin's Avatar
    365 396 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    I am about this card.  :)

     

    There will be 13 combo cards in Standard, very few of them are totally unplayable.  I suspect this will see play, a lot. .

    worst community ever

    -1
  • Chimera's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 685 680 Posts Joined 10/22/2018
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    I like this card but i don't know how viable it will be. I feel like this sort of combo synergy was overdue. 

    1
  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Senior Writer 2245 2630 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Remember Lyra the Sunshard?

    This is that except cheaper and you can run two of them.

    0
  • kaladin's Avatar
    365 396 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From Demonxz95

    Remember Lyra the Sunshard?

    This is that except cheaper and you can run two of them.

    Exactly.  There will be a thread calling for this to be nerfed after some lucky Rogue drops this on 10-mana and goes Cold Blood, Cold Blood, Evisc, Defias, Coin, Edwin, having only started with two of those cards in hand.

    worst community ever

    0
  • sinti's Avatar
    Senior Writer Chocolate Cake 2070 2774 Posts Joined 10/20/2018
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From kaladin
    Quote From Demonxz95

    Remember Lyra the Sunshard?

    This is that except cheaper and you can run two of them.

    Exactly.  There will be a thread calling for this to be nerfed after some lucky Rogue drops this on 10-mana and goes Cold Blood, Cold Blood, Evisc, Defias, Coin, Edwin, having only started with two of those cards in hand.

    This is 100% gonna happen in arena :)

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    0
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    This card is too cute, IMO.
    1) Is rogue really searching for more value?
    2) Are you really going to play a 2-mana for more value?

    0
  • kaladin's Avatar
    365 396 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From RandomGuy


    2) Are you really going to play a 2-mana for more value?

    1. EVIL Cable Rat
    2. Rogue can run out of steam in the late-mid and early-late game.
    3. Add more Edwins to your hand or buff the existing Edwin in your hand when you have Whirlkick Master and another combo card in your hand?  Yes please!
    4. The stats are less of a detriment to this being playable than "T2 Rogue = dagger up" is. 

    worst community ever

    0
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From kaladin
    Quote From RandomGuy


    2) Are you really going to play a 2-mana for more value?

    1. EVIL Cable Rat
    2. Rogue can run out of steam in the late-mid and early-late game.
    3. Add more Edwins to your hand or buff the existing Edwin in your hand when you have Whirlkick Master and another combo card in your hand?  Yes please!
    4. The stats are less of a detriment to this being playable than "T2 Rogue = dagger up" is. 

    1. Cable Rat actively advances your game plan
    2. Yeah it can. A conditional, weak value card probably isn't fixing that.
    3. If this thing only rolled Edwin, I'd agree.
    4. T2 dagger up is a tempo play, front loading 2 pings. This is just a 1/2 for nothing on 2.

    1
  • kaladin's Avatar
    365 396 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    We will certainly see then!

    Agree to disagree for the time being. 

    worst community ever

    1
  • DoubleSummon's Avatar
    Ancestral Recall 1585 2271 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    This is a way to get more edwins seems weak on paper cause rogues have tonnes of value already in all the burgle stuff but combo is so much better than random burgle cards.. also this is a kind of a constant generator if for some reason not dealt with.

    0
  • EndlessTides's Avatar
    Funnel Cakes 365 232 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Could be good. Could be great. We haven't seen the rest of the cards yet. 

     Can i just say something? That artwork is.... 🤢 Vomit inducingly bad 

    Cocked, locked and ready to rock... 

    1
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From kaladin

    We will certainly see then!

    Agree to disagree for the time being. 

    Fair enough! FWIW, if this card was 1-mana, I think it'd be very good instead of basically unplayable. To me, 2 mana feels too expensive for a combo activator that can sometimes double dip. Especially considering we only have 30 cards to play.

    0
  • Malkav's Avatar
    145 12 Posts Joined 06/26/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Just compare it with Underbelly Angler and you see how underpowered it is.

    0
  • kaladin's Avatar
    365 396 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From Malkav

    Just compare it with Underbelly Angler and you see how underpowered it is.

    Or how overpowered Angler is.  IMO at 2-mana 1/2, this feels a bit more fair.  

    Watch Rogue get a card that makes their combo cards cost 1. :)

    worst community ever

    1
  • Yusuke's Avatar
    295 187 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Preparation died for this. Kappa.

    0
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Conceptually I really like that they're printing these sorts of random generation effects on minions rather than situational & low-tempo spells like Lock and Load and Stampede, but I doubt this card in particular will see much play because the average cost of combo cards makes miracle turns pretty unlikely. If Cold Blood still cost 1 and there were a couple more really cheap combo cards Whirlkick Master would be significantly scarier.

    1
  • Me0203's Avatar
    Design Champion 750 497 Posts Joined 06/13/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    It's lovely that we've finally gotten an effect like this for Combo cards. For such a flavorful, unique mechanic, it's odd that we've never had a Combo-focused archetype. And while I don't think that this card will cause that to happen in a competitive way, it does create the option of creating a deck all around Combo cards. That sounds fun! 

    Regards to competitive viability, similar effects have seen play many times over. Lyra the Sunshard is the obvious comparison, but Underbelly Angler, Lock and Load, and Lifeweaver are very similar, while Mana Cyclone, Gazlowe, and Exotic Mountseller are somewhat similar. Point being that, at the least, this type of card proves to be a possible build-around. All of these cards have seen extensive theorycrafting. The gatekeepers to viable deck-crafting seem to be cost, card pool, and activation ease. Exotic Mountseller and Gazlowe are far harder to use due to their high cost. Lyra also has a higher cost, but Priest has plenty of small spells and cards like Radiant Elemental to discount them. Thus, Lyra turns small spells over efficiently, quickly turning the board around for cheap while also generating valuable spells for later. Mana Cyclone does much the same, trading small spells for more small spells and for larger spells, with the added benefit of increasing hand size for Mountain Giant (a playstyle not too accessible to Rogue, sadly). Not to mention that the Cyclone is a discountable Mage Elemental. Underbelly Angler's activation cards cannot be discounted, but it is 2 mana and murlocs are mostly 1 or 2 mana, making it much the same as the other two. Mana Cyclone, Underbelly Angler, and Lyra the Sunshard, the best of this group, are all easily activated and have a desirable pool of random cards to offer that can be played on the same turn. Unlike them, cards like Gazlowe have an undesirable pool to draw from - while 1-mana spare parts can be discounted and played over his 6-mana body, the minions he generates are quite random and usually not playable right away, leading to a lackluster turn. On the opposite side of the coin, Lifeweaver generates consistently alright cards, but its healing is tougher to come by than spare parts. It's also a specific mechanic without much support in Druid, unlike Angler's murlocs, which ask for and support a deck with mostly murlocs.

    This said, we now have several ways to tell how good Whirlkick Master is. It has a low cost, which is good. Like Angler, it has a relatively synergistic activation requirement, given that Rogue has several currently played Combo cards (Eviscerate, SI:7 Agent, Edwin VanCleef, EVIL Miscreant and Raiding Party, depending).  This is unlike Lifeweaver, with its healing cards. However, the stumbling block comes with the available pool of Combo cards, which are analyzed below.

     

    2, Eviscerate - Cheap removal. Great option.

    2, Defias Ringleader - Cheap board-fill. Good option.

    2, Cold Blood - Situational card that is not good outside of its situation, but generates damage for later. Okay option.

    3, EVIL Miscreant - The value parade stomps onward. Promotes board-flood and Spirit of the Shark synergy. Great option. 

    3, Perdition's Blade - One of two weapons. Quick multi-target removal that lasts into the next turn. Great option.

    3, Edwin VanCleef - The man himself. He can be played right away for, likely, a 6-6 or 8-8, or saved for a larger turn later. Good option. 

    3, SI:7 Agent - Proactive small lump of stats. Historically great. Great option.

    3, Hooked Scimitar - The other weapon. Cheap, good removal, with value for later turns. Great option.

    3, Cutthroat Buccaneer - If you have a weapon up, it's alright. If you don't, it's just a small body, which is alright. Okay option.

    3, Headcrack - Pure face damage. You'd rather play other cards. Bad option usually, okay option in a face-oriented deck.

    4, Raiding Party - If your deck wants to run Raiding Party, it runs it already. Admittedly, the Buccaneer is a pirate and Cursed Castaway exists, but the success of that type of deck and this card seems unlikely to me. Time will tell how this option stands, but it is definitely bad if you don't want it. 

    5, Crazed Chemist - Expensive. Can only be played right away with 9 or 10 mana, and has situational board effect, even if it may be useful later on. Bad option.

    6, Kidnapper - Similar to Crazed Chemist. Notably, however, it may be alright in a face-oriented deck. Still a bad option, though. 

     

    At first, this seems to be an okay pool - these cards are pretty good. But to note is that the average cost of these cards is around 3. Before card quality is even discussed, given an activation cycle of the 2-mana Whirlkick Master into 2/3 cost Combo card, this means a player can only play the generated card right away with 7~ mana, besides Preparation into Eviscerate/Cold Blood lowering that cost by 2, which is inconsistent. All the best cards of this type have been able to generate 0 and 1 cost cards, while this can only do so quite rarely. 

    Also, as we've seen from the evaluated cards, the best of them have generated cards that can be played immediately and proactively. While most of the cheap options here can be proactive, the above shows that they are not immediate. We see that, though Underbelly Angler seems a fitting comparison, Whirlkick Master is far worse. It has less likelihood to survive on turn 2 and even if it does, barring Preparation into Eviscerate, the cards generated on turn 3 cannot be played for another turn. The deck that utilizes this card is also unlikely to be like Priest, which could wait until later turns to use Lyra the Sunshard. The generated cards seem to promote either a board-flood deck or a SMORC deck, neither of which like to drag the game out. (Though I acknowledge that this deck speculation is the shakiest bit of my evaluation) One might say that you don't need to play the generated cards immediately - you could play Master and activate it for 4 or 5 mana, then use the generated card next turn. This seems like a weak turn for a weak result, to me. 

    My conclusion is, then, that this card will not be competitive. Even Lock and Load, which I feel is the most similar card available, was supported by discounted secrets and other easy activation methods. But it is possible that Blizzard prints a great, cheap Combo card, or that my evaluation of how powerful the turns and decks I imagined are riddled with stinky holes. Regardless, it will be a fun buildaround card for years to come! That is exciting.

    Better call Thrall!

     

     

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