Hearthstone
Top Three-cret - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Submitted 3 years, 2 months ago by
ShadowsOfSense
Competition Theme: Top Three-cret
Third time's the charm, so buckle up for another Secret competition!
- You must create three (3) Secrets for a non-Secret class
- Just like Rogue, we need to see a few Secrets at a time to get a feel for how they're going to work in a new class!
MathU and Neoguli are asking us to be extra secretive this week - and to teach the remaining classes how to do it too!
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
- Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Oct 18 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Oct 23 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Oct 23 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Oct 24 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Oct 24 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Oct 25 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.
Discussion Thread Rules
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Competition Theme: Top Three-cret
Third time's the charm, so buckle up for another Secret competition!
MathU and Neoguli are asking us to be extra secretive this week - and to teach the remaining classes how to do it too!
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
Welcome to the site!
1 mana Priest Secrets! To give some distinction in comparison to Paladin Secrets, I tried to give them effects that tend to be more aggressive and have some quick board impact.
EDIT: Ninja changed Deception.
Addendum: I am a bit worried that Deception is a bit too similar to Suppressive Light given that they both effectively deal 2 damage with a 2/2 value of stats in some way.
Boomsday Secrets for the Warrior. I started off trying to translate my Lich Secrets over to another class, and while the Common was easy, the others were more of a challenge. Eventually scrapped the two and went a different direction.
Edit: Replaced Engage Defenses! with a version that draws Mechs instead of "minions with 4-or-more Attack". More on-brand, but I wonder if it's too good for Mech Warrior.
Edit2: Replaced Product Recall. Remember that Bomb Warrior from Rise of Shadows did not exist yet, but the Mine from Iron Juggernaut did. So that's why they're Mines *shrugs* They only deal 3 damage for balance reasons. Still not sure about this card.
Very cool theme this week. I decided to go for token Druid Secrets.
I think Surprise Shapeshift is my most interesting card, but I'm unsure about the size of the token. If I finally go with it, I'll make a token card too.
It's been a while since I've asked and given feedback. I made my cards on the basis that I imagine Priest secrets would be akin to Mage ones where they'd annoy more than they destroy. I'm not too sure about the name Spell Ward but I feel pretty good about the other cards.
Edit: Changed Focused Healing from full Health to 12 to make it in line with Greater Healing Potion.
Take my words with a grain of salt. I'm unranked and only play casuals lmao.
EDIT: Bye bye, Druid. New plan!
Here's my first attempt at making some shaman secrets. Had a hard time coming with something truly original and just added up making shaman versions of mage secrets.
You made Seaforium Bomber cry :'-(
Here are my first ideas - went with Warrior and decided to go some sort of control-ish /protection route with the secrets :
I made the Hold the line 4 cost because with 3 mana i kinda thought it would be too strong even if you can only play one of them because it is a legendary! Not even sure with 4 Mana ...
In case someone did not remember the summoned cards , here they are:
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Surprised nobody has shared Warlock Secrets yet. Anyway, here are my ideas.
"Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me
"If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me
Afterlife Soul needs to read "with Immune for the rest of the turn." or something, 24/7 immune can be abused and you can guarantee to get a minion you want, if it is the only one on the board for you. And you can taunt it, if need be to make your opponent kill it. Very high abuse potential as it stands.
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Alright, time for feedback. I literally hit Legend for the first time today, so I'm feeling pretty good!
Engage Defenses is a fine idea for a Secret, but it's weak at 3 mana. Compare specifically to Dirty Tricks as well as the fact that tutor effects tend to be cheaper than raw draw effects.
Product Recall actually can use Bombs since Seaforium Bomber exists, although it may be better to use Mines anyway since they deal 3 damage instead of 5 which is sort of an iconic thing for Bombs.
Scrap for Parts is fine.
Focused Healing is a fine card design, but I feel its effect should probably be a bit more impactful since it requires quite a few specific things in the game state to be the way you want.
Mirroring Shadow needs to have Silence properly capitalized, but it seems good to me otherwise, and I do quite like Spell Ward.
I'm afraid I don't really like any of these. United We Stand is very weak, and even if it were 2 mana, it'd probably still be just "fair" and not fantastic. You do get some brownie points for reminding me of Yu-Gi-Oh tough.
Without A Trace seems to be almost a strictly better version of Hunt Them Down. Yeah, I understand that you can play them from Outcast and expand their effects differently, but still requires a LOT of specific things to happen. Namely in the case of Hunt Them Down, you have play it from Outcast and then your opponent needs to play a minion in the center of their board to get full value from the effect. I do kinda like the idea of giving some of the Secrets a bonus Outcast effect, but I don't think this is the way to go about it.
I'm also thinking that maybe Demon Hunter is not the best class to give Secrets to since they already have Sigils which basically act as their own version of Secrets.
I am a bit afraid that Explosive Devolution is too powerful against a wide board. In addition to neutering their board pretty heavily, they'll also spawn with summoning sickness.
The other two are pretty good!
You MUST change Hold The Line because of the fact that it costs 4 mana and therefore the secretive aspect of the Secret is negated. If I see my opponent play a 4-Cost Warrior Secret, then I automatically know that it's Hold The Line since there aren't any other 4-Cost Warrior Secrets. The card is very weird too. Why exactly is Blackhowl Gunspire in the Barrens and how did it even get there? The card name shouldn't be bolded either, and it's also pretty clear that you used the same art so that should be changed as well.
Burning Guard is an okay idea, but I feel like some of that 8 damage will likely end up being wasted. It also uses the same artwork as Soot Spewer, so it should be changed.
Bomb Throw is a concept I approve of, although it is very weak. And once again, the card name shouldn't be bolded.
Soul Harvest is pretty good, but I have problems with the other two.
Maledict Shadow is pretty weak. Compare to Curse of Weakness.
Afterlife Soul on the other hand seems quite broken since it summons a permanently Immune minion which you can buff and make a monster that's very hard to get rid of.
Thx for the feedback, im also not very happy with the cards so i will change them - regarding the art of Hold the Line - yes it is the same, so i understand the point there - but for the art of the other cards - aren't we allowed to use Hearthstone Art? i mean even the Creations Primer has a link to Hearthstone Art ... but i guess i have to look for other art sites.
I thought card names on other cards should have to be bolded , so that's good to know!
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
You are allowed to use Hearthstone art, but you shouldn't use Hearthstone art. As a rule, collectible cards should never use the same art as another collectible card unless you want to try to pull a Murloc Raider/Old Murk-Eye.
The exception to this is using artwork that is only found outside of any Constructed play mode (as is the case with cards like Roll the Bones or Simulacrum, which use the artwork of Ancient Power and Pure Cold respectively which is fine as neither of these cards are accessible in Constructed).
Ok thanks for clearing that up even tough that makes it harder to create those cards ... because if i use Hearthstone Art it defenitely would get less points because of the art ... i'll try to find other art !
Here are my new cards:
I like these way better than the secrets i made before and hopefully they aren't that bad :) Tried a more Taunt / Bomb Protection Route because i always liked Bomb Warrior etc.
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Tinkered with my cards again: dropped their cost to 2 to make Engage Defenses! better, then rebalanced the other two.
Product Recall is now the Epic card, and uses Bombs to match Seaforium Bomber; thank you for mentioning her :)
Will work on feedback next.
Thanks for feedback! So I replaced Afterlife Soul with Demonic Presence and buffed Maledict Shadow. Soul Harvest is still there. Also no Epic Secret, since it's not required, and also when Rogue first got them in Kobolds, they got 2 Commons and 1 Epic.
"Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me
"If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me
Feedback:
FieselFitz - I think there's too much overlap between your Secrets: the conditions for Shields Up! and Bomb Throw are very similar, while Bomb Throw and the Boombox both summon three bomb minions. If I had to choose, I would lose Bomb Throw because it doesn't do much for the Warrior.
Neoguli - Starting off, the art is great. I would argue Maledict Shadow is worse than Curse of Weakness. Soul Harvest is missing an S in "minions"; I'm also concerned how much fuel you might receive for 2-mana. If you're in a healthy position on the board - one that requires a board clear to deal with - you'll get all of them back. And I agree with Sinti: permanent Immune on Afterlife Soul is a big problem. Put that on something with an aura like Knife Juggler.
grumpymonk - I like Sudden Deluge in particular, and the art for all of them is solid. Explosive Devolution seems really good: I feel like 3-less is too much, especially since the other enemy minions will also lose their ability to attack. I'm not sure about Voodoo Mastery, but I can't put my finger on the why.
R - I think these are better than the Druid Secrets. The overlap between Hunt Them Down and Without A Trace is high, though, right down to the same condition. I would replace HTD with something new, 'cause Without A Trace is more unique. Also, "its" is the proper usage in the first and third Secrets :)
FenrirWulf - Silence should be capitalized and bolded. Beyond that, Mirroring Shadow is a better version of Mirror Entity. The other two are good, though; I like them.
Wailor - Don't bother with the Surprise Shapeshift token: it's not a necessity, and we didn't leave enough submission room for it as it is. The card should be fine as a vanilla 4/4, though. As for the other two, not a fan of Fertilizer and Crystalize having the same condition. I like them, though, but if I had to choose one to keep, I would prefer Fertilizer because I like Treants. I think some are tired of ramp.
Demonxz95 - As I said on Discord, and as you noted, Deception and Suppressive Light have a similar outcome. Suppressive Light is the most unique, so keep that one and replace Deception? Something with Thief Priest in mind, maybe?
@Sinti - I've made changes already, so you can edit the comment to include them instead of the prime version of my submission. That means no more grammar mistakes, no Afterlife Soul and better Maledict Shadow.
"Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me
"If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me
I actually didn't realise you had to make three cards for this comp lol
Considering this, you're right Crystalize and Fertilizer are too similar, so I basically replaced the former with Grow Thorns, which may be a bit too similar to Never Surrender!, but I think it makes up for it by virtue of being a natural fit for Druid, both flavor and effect-wise.
I was thinking about making a Secret version of BEEEES!!!, but I realized it would trigger Fertilizer, so I refrained from it xD
EDIT: Changed Grow Thorns and Surprise Shapeshift from "After" to "When".
Engage Defenses! has the issue of being useless depending on your deck, but I guess this is not as important in a class that cannot generate them.
Scrap For Parts is very simple, but the flavor is quite cool and the effect is balanced enough.
The new Maledict Shadow has the issue of potentially filling your opponent's board with 0-Attack minions, which is not nice.
My original intent with Mirroring Shadow was to create exactly a better Mirror Entity as I never felt like Mirror Entity was a "Mage" card and more of a Priest card. Nevertheless, I tried replacing it again because it felt out of place. Focused Healing is now 15 health instead of 12. I do think it's still weak, but not because of how much it heals but often it would heal for said amount.
Take my words with a grain of salt. I'm unranked and only play casuals lmao.
Tried to make a new version of Deception (with a new name) to try to differentiate it more from Suppressive Light and address a few balance comments.
New feedback
Demonic Presence seems a bit strange and also weak. While I don't particularly have a problem with giving Armor to classes that don't currently have it in some cases, it will likely end up costing you points from voters who believe it makes the card "not Warlock-y" The tutor effect can also very easily be played around by just not attacking into your opponent.
Maledict Shadow is also one that I'm afraid I'm going to have to say no to. It's definitely a lot stronger than the previous version and I appreciate the buff, but permanent Attack reduction without some additional effect is a dangerous road to travel on. Any type of permanent Attack reduction like this didn't exist until Ancient Void Hound which is a 9 mana minion that only drains 1 Attack at a time and also drains Health as well meaning that the minions will eventually die if Ancient Void Hound's effect keeps going off. This however is quick permanent Attack reduction without anything to get rid of the minions. Trigger this on a board full of 2-Attack minions and all of a sudden, your opponent is completely locked out of playing any minions unless they either buff them or use their own removal on them. This in particular is why Hex gives the minion it transforms Taunt. Otherwise, it's just a 0/1 minion that sits on the board taking up a board slot without your opponent being able to do anything about it efficiently.
Had it at 2 damage at first, but after comparing to to cards like Sigil of Flame, Explosive Trap and Immolation Aura, I decided 2 damage might not be enough to make it playable.
An odd one, but I'm very proud of it's uniqueness. It is guaranteed to hit at least one enemy and puts the rest in a tough position.
Wanted to post the token too, but HearthCards doesn't like printing the expansion on tokens, so I figured the card is straightforward enough. Stats probably need tweaking.
Also, I literally just realized, as I was finishing this post, that the last card is very close to Spellbender... It was supposed to be a parody on Noble Sacrifice. I'm happy with it as a spell-punisher though, so I don't think I'll make an alternative.
Mainly for linkblade91, but important for everyone: I notice none of your secrets really interact with your opponent. They don't really disturb their turn or mess with the board. When they were 3-costs, they may as well have been non-secret spells and now they just feel like Sigils that may or may not take an extra turn to trigger.
It's not terrible, we have Rigged Faire Game after all, but for this to be the case for all three cards doesn't sit well with me.
R: All Illidari minions/ summons in Hearthstone have Rush. A card that exclusively triggers during your opponents turn summoning Rush minions doesn't make any sense. Maybe change it to Demons since it only seems worth playing in a deck with big minions (aka Demons) to begin with?
I must admit, I like the use of Outcast. Guess I missed out(cast) on that one… Sorry, I'll leave now.
Feedback: Feedback is further down the page.
Rigged Sigil: Usually, secrets have effects that are all upside, aside from an unlucky Oh My Yogg!.
Edit: Whoops, I started making feedback but I forgot to finish. I'll come back to it tonight, my apologies.
Nice one, congrats! What deck did you use? Did you do the deed in Standard or Wild? Enjoy that card back, I hope your experience was as great as mine when I first made it :)
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Thanks for the Feedback - did not realize i made different Watermarks :) Here are the new Cards (all with the same Watermark) and a with some little changes:
Those are the new secrets - i changed Shields Up so it only gives +1 Attack instead of 2. Boombox is the same and the third one is an entirely new card because Bomb Throw was a little too weak and similar with the Secret effect.
Now all 3 effects are different (attack a minion, opponent plays minion and after you've taken damage).
I think those are the cards i will go for in the competition - maybe some little changes etc but overall these will be my cards for this comp.
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Standard with Pirate Warrior. Here you go!
Some extra feedback
I agree with Grumpymonk that Rigged Sigil is a bit weird given that Secrets don't have two-sided effects or the potential to backfire if used at the wrong time.
Warding Glyphs is okay.
Sacrificial Summon is, as noted, a better Spellbender. Spellbender has never been of Mage's better Secrets, but the discrepancy in power level is still kinda insane. A logo also appears to be visible in the bottom-right.
Some feedback:
Just in case you were wondering, I'm still on HS break and submitted way too hastily. So yeah, I'm the idiot who created the Demon Hunter Secrets with the wrong syntax. Sigh.
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Thanks for the feedback, i made some little changes:
Hold the Line is now an Epic card and equips a Spiked Wheel:
Dr. Booms Boombox is now a Rare Card instead of Epic!
Shields Up stayed the same so i did not implement it in this post :)
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Finally got around to making feedback:
Shields Up!: I like this one a lot. The flavor and the mechanics fit well together.
Hold the Line!: I would lessen the armor gain of this one a little bit, considering that this one is strictly better than Ice Barrier, which is one of the better mage secrets. I like the flavor of this one as well.
Dr. Boom's Boombox: There's a missing apostrophe in the name. Very fitting effect and I appreciate that it tackles a different aspect of warrior - mechs and making things explode!
Rigged Sigil: I don't like that this one can backfire, requiring you to play around your own secret. Normally, secrets are all upside aside from an unlucky Oh My Yogg!.
Warding Glyphs: I'm not sure this works within the rules, but it is interesting to see an effect that punishes attacking by crackback damage.
Sacrifical Summon: I like it. It's certainly a lot better than Spellbender for sure.
Focused Healing: I'm not sure I understand the flavor. You hero gets healed when its not taking damage?
Disarming Palm: I think that this could be a lot stronger. Setting a minion's attack to 0 is a lot like freezing, and spending 3 mana for a Freezing Potion doesn't seem like a good deal.
Spell Ward: This is my favorite of the three. It's a nice, clean effect that is unique.
Soul Harvest: "Minion" should be plural in the text. I can see the parallel with this and Plagiarize, i'm not sure if that's what you intended.
Demonic Presence: Your opponent will easily decide not to break your armor unless they have lethal, so the draw will almost never activate.
Maledict Shadow: This could cause opponent not to be able to play any minions if they have a board full of minions with 2 or less attack.
I like Hunt Them Down, but I think Without A Trace is too strong and United We Stand doesn't work well if you have a board, requiring you to have to play around it.
While it's true that Wrenchcalibur doesn't explain what the Bombs do, you have to remember that that was Rise of Shadows, a later set. In Boomsday, you only have Seaforium Bomber (and Product Recall); I feel, for the sake of realism, that the explanation needs to be on there.
I sneak into the fray with a take on possible Warlock secrets. Feedback welcome!
Out of these, I'm pretty happy with the first two but Felfire Ward could do with some tweaking. I wanted it to be "when a friendly minion is attacked and dies" but that's too many words... Tainted cup refers to the Blood of Mannoroth, but is it obvious what it does in this case?
I actually like Felfire Ward the best. It has the possibility to kill a minion before it gets the chance to attack it's target, but at 4 damage it doesn't overkill it to the point where you barely get any value out of the effect.
Twilight Ritual is good too, but Tainted Cup uses Corrupt, which is a keyword with a different effect from what you have in mind. You could use 'curse' instead, like Corrupting Mist. And since you don't use it as a keyword, I don't think it should be capitalized.
I really like Twilight Ritual and Felfire Ward isn't bad either.
Tainted Cup, on the other hand, uses an incorrect keyword (what AeroJulwin said). Also, the trigger and the effect are a bit disconnected mechanics-wise (maybe your opponents draws a bunch of cards but doesn't have minions on the board)
Thanks for feedback! Yeah I really messed up with “Corrupt”, lol, don’t know what I was thinking. I will give it some though wether I will change the effect or just the wording.
Thanks for all the feedback! i already submitted because i liked the way the final renditions of my cards were so i guess there will be some little point deductions because for example one of them is missing an apostrophe :)
nevertheless , even tough this comp was a little harder than others it was still fun and challenging!
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Congrats to Wailor! Amusing that you didn't even realize at first three Secrets were required, then won it all anyway lol :P
Congrats to Wailor! Really nice cards, very fitting for Druid.
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com