My predictions for changes we are going to see this Tuesday

There will be a balance change patch this Tuesday in runeterra which cards do you think will be changed (buffed/nerfed/reworked)?

Disclaimer: Those changes are suggestions/my opinion, also it doesn't mean I am salty for losing to the "op cards" nor I meme with the cards I suggest to buff.

My list:

Buffs:

Poro Snax, Kalista, Trueshot Barrage (from slow to fast),Funsmith(from 5 to 4, not enough fun as it is),Midenstokke Henchmen(cost reduced, stats too),Shady Character, from 1/1 to 1/2 (harder to just kill), Lux (didn't see her at all..), Emerald Awakener (+0/+1 , base, +0/-1 on the buff still the same on turn 10 but sucks much less when played on curve), Scuttlegeist (5/5->6/6)

Reworks:

Deny.

ramp tools(overnerfed, nobody consider playing them).

Battering Ram - not broken in constructed but is in expeditions.

Nerfs:

Commander Ledros (+1 cost, remove fearsome),Fiora (3 targets required for level up, doesn't keep count with new copies), Elise (2/3-> 2/2),Shadow Assassin (2/2->2/1 OR 3->4 mana cost), Kinkou Lifeblade(4->5 mana or 2/3->2/2 maybe both),Navori Conspirator (3/2->2/2),Inspiring Mentor (on buff +1/+1->+1/+0), Rhasa the Sunderer (cost +1), Hecarim (Cost +1), Wraithcaller(4/3->3/3 no longer has fearsome),Frenzied Skitterer (cost 3->4), Cursed Keeper (token is 3/3 instead of 4/4).

Expecting changes to some frostbite cards they are too efficient.

OK I probably missed some stuff that is clear that it needs changes and Riot will surprise us with cards we did not think were problematic or cards that we didn't think were too good but they got the big data, the win rates the play rates..

I don't see why they would rework Deny. The only problem it has is being too mana efficient for its cost. Put it at 4 or 5 mana and it still becomes viable for decks who need to protect key minions but less universal in any deck.

I also don't see most of your buffs happening.

Poro Snax is pretty crazy if it works, it's just that very few people actually play Poro decks these days.

Trueshot wouuld also be kind of ridiculous as a fast spell, given that it essentially acts like Avalanche in most cases.

Kalista is actually pretty decent I'd say...she's just not really main champion material, more like an additional 3-drop that gives you benefits if you can keep her alive, but at worst works as a removal magnet for very little risk. I currently run two copies in my Spider decks, and she performs fine.

Your Nerf suggestions seem likely. The biggest problem with Elusives at the moment is the mount of handbuff and burst buffs they have access too. Kinkou Lifeblade should not exist at all with Lifesteal, it's ridiculous to get something like a 5/6 that you can't even efficiently block and removes the possibility of a face race. I generally think Lifesteal is way too undercosted in this game, especially considering that via blocking you can proc lifesteal every round and it completely invalidates the relevance of early chip damage.

I think you should also include Jeweled Protector. If that card hits any Elusive unit and you don't have big removal ready you're probably gonna die within the next few rounds.

I don't know specifically which cards would be hit with a nerf, but there will certainly be nerfs coming in soon for the Shadow Isles. I've played games where my opponent was running Shadow Isles without any champions and still beat me because of how OP their numerous last breath and card draw effects are.

It's fine to run a deck without a full 6 champions, but it's silly that the available cards in Shadow Isles are so good that running zero champions can be a reasonable idea in a game to centered around champion cards.

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

I generally think Lifesteal is way too undercosted in this game, especially considering that via blocking you can proc lifesteal every round and it completely invalidates the relevance of early chip damage.

Agreed. Of course it's designed as a counter-mechanic against eagly-aggression decks, but it's way too efficient at its job in my opinion.

Quote From BlueSpark

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

I generally think Lifesteal is way too undercosted in this game, especially considering that via blocking you can proc lifesteal every round and it completely invalidates the relevance of early chip damage.

Agreed. Of course it's designed as a counter-mechanic against eagly-aggression decks, but it's way too efficient at its job in my opinion.

Stuff like Emerald Awakener and the one buff card from Ionia with Barrier and Lifesteal for a turn are fine cards. They are either gated by time or limited to a one round basis.

But then you get stuff like Radiant Guardian and Lifeblade and suddenly things get a lot more difficult considering the amount of permanent buffs that are in the game. I'd rather they'd give certain cards a fixed heal effect, aka: Strike or Attack: heal for x amount.

I feel like they took too much inspiration from Hearthstone in this regard where Lifesteal isn#t nearly as strong because usually you only get a one attack out of a lifesteal minion and can't react to removal. Lifesteal Minions in general need to be heavily limited by their own stats and mana curve.

Soulgorger is probably the most well executed version. It's slow and dies to a lot of things, but it shines against decks who rely on brute force and have no counters. It's also part of a region that doesn't have a lot of attack buffs meaning that there is less in-built synergy (compare that to Kinkou lifeblade who comes from a region with numerous Hand- and combat buffs)

Maybe for the Handbuff cards they should have more of their stats on the played body and less on the buff. So Inspiring Mentor could be a 1/2 that gives +1/+0 and Jeweled protector could be a 4/4 that gives +2/+2. Or maybe Ionia hand buffs should be limited to only giving Power, so that it doesn’t increase the survivability of their elusives

Quote From sinti

I would like if Fiora had to get more kills before she wins you the game, but given it is tied to her League ultimate, it has to be 4.

I think the best way to go about it is simply change how she levels up. 

There are not many ways to nerf Fiora without ruining her, they kind of nailed her design in mana cost and stats.. and they can't really change her win condition since it's really nice way.. The way I suggested (3/1 kills upgrade/win instead of 2/2) is probably the most elegant (heh..) way to nerf her.

-Deny is fine with the current state of the game. It' the only thing that stops a lot of the current cancer in Frejlord and P&Z. If other spells in the game get hit with nerfs, then it would be fine to up the mana cost on Deny.

-The frostbite spells needs to be turned into fast instead of burst and/or have their mana costs increased. Ezrael decks are even less interactive than elusives. You can't do anything while they stall the game.

-Elusives needs some tuning. I think they would be fine if they just all lost HP. Just making them more fragile will reinforce the archetype.

-Lots of SI units and spells need nerfs too. Their removal spells are way too cost efficient and give too much utility. I would prefer if they nerfed fearsome before nerfing the spells though. I think the combination of the two is what makes SI so overwhelming

-All the fearsome units need to either have their mana costs increased or their HP reduced to 1. Way too strong and cost effective for so much HP.

-Ephemeral units are way too strong and will replace fearsome next. Spectral riders should be adjusted, which would help balance Hecarim out without directly nerfing him.

-Ledros needs to either be 10 mana or have fearsome removed.

-Hecarim needs his stats adjusted. I'm just throwing a number out, but he should probably be 5/4

-No one knows it yet, but Heimer is absolutely broken. He probably won't get any attention this patch, but expect him to be meta at some point soon.

-Can't offer much insight into Noxus, because no one uses it. I see maybe one deck a day and it's usually easy to win against if it's the primary region in the deck. Katarina just needs a new level up, and Draven's spinning axes should probably be 1 mana with no discard, and he should create two before the level up. Discarding to play spinning axes is unbelievably bad. Have not seen or played against a vlad or Darius deck yet.

The only thing that would make me unhappy is if Commander Ledros is not hit extremely hard -- harder than anyone has suggested in this thread.

If he continues to appear in every single Shadow Isles deck (especially aggro decks), I will consider it a failed balance patch.

Must have nerfs:

Deny: 3 mana -> 5 mana OR refunds all mana to the owner of the denied spell

Wraith Caller: 4/3 body -> 4/2 body

Hecarim: 3/2 Spectral Riders -> 2/1 Spectral Riders (Onslaught of Shadows spell must get a buff to 2 mana)

Shadow Assassin: summoned Draw a card -> Last Breath: Draw a card

Might get a nerf somewhere down the road:

Commander Ledros: 8 mana -> 9 mana

Elise: 2/3 -> 2/2 OR 1/3

Glimpse Beyond: 2 mana Fast Spell -> Slow Spell OR 3 mana

Shark Chariot: 3/1 -> 2/1

ledros needs to just lose his last breath to return to hand and this is someone who love playing shadow isles, ledros would still be great without that part, possibly lose fearsome as well

He should really return to the top of the deck instead, that way you can’t play him the turn he dies (and he doesn’t give you “card draw” when he dies

My thoughts:

• We're not going to see any substantial buffs or reworks yet, just because most people are still missing A LOT so many archetypes and power combos just haven't been discovered yet.  Like you mention not seeing Lux: well, she needs spells to work and most players only have the single free copy of her anyways so they aren't going to play her.  I think Heimer would be in the same boat except some streamer popularized that "400 IQ" deck that countered the elusive decks really well so people crafted towards that.
• Mark of the Isles is totally getting hit: either increasing mana from 1 to 2 or decreasing effect from +3 to +2.  It probably also shouldn't give any HP at all--that's only to relevant when combo'ing with Mark, and that's way too high-rolly to properly balance.  EDIT: I forgot about cases where you want your opponent plays a damage effect to kill it before dealing damage and you play mark to get it to live long enough to get a single attack off, so perhaps there's merit in leaving the HP so long as mana/attack ratio is balanced.  
• Kinkou Lifeblade from a 2/3 to a 2/2 or maybe even a 2/1.  Having an elusive lifesteal is fine, but you HAVE to give opponents a chance to remove it and there's a huge difference between 2 HP and 3 HP.
• I'd also like to see Dawnspeakers changed from 1/4 to 0/3 for similar reasons.  Most other "backline" units like Phantom Prankster, Rimetusk Shaman, Puffcap Peddler, and Soul Shepherd only have 3 HP, and I don't like that they made this card an exception.  
• Something to either increase the cost or decrease the stats that Wraith CallerBADCARDNAME, Hecarim, and/or Shark Chariot put into play.

Quote From OldManSanns

My thoughts:

• We're not going to see any substantial buffs or reworks yet, just because most people are still missing A LOT so many archetypes and power combos just haven't been discovered yet.  Like you mention not seeing Lux: well, she needs spells to work and most players only have the single free copy of her anyways so they aren't going to play her.  I think Heimer would be in the same boat except some streamer popularized that "400 IQ" deck that countered the elusive decks really well so people crafted towards that.
• Mark of the Isles is totally getting hit: either increasing mana from 1 to 2 or decreasing effect from +3 to +2.  It probably also shouldn't give any HP at all--that's only to relevant when combo'ing with Mark, and that's way too high-rolly to properly balance.
• Kinkou Lifeblade from a 2/3 to a 2/2 or maybe even a 2/1.  Having an elusive lifesteal is fine, but you HAVE to give opponents a chance to remove it and there's a huge difference between 2 HP and 3 HP.
• I'd also like to see Dawnspeakers changed from 1/4 to 0/3 for similar reasons.  Most other "backline" units like Phantom Prankster, Rimetusk Shaman, Puffcap Peddler, and Soul Shepherd only have 3 HP, and I don't like that they made this card an exception.  
• Something to either increase the cost or decrease the stats that Wraith Caller, Hecarim, and/or Shark Chariot put into play.

Completely agree with all of these points. And to back up your first point, I would personally love to play a Heimerdinger and/or Lux (and/or Karma) deck, but they are among the six champions that I haven't gotten any copies of yet, so of course I'm not going to be able to play a deck centered around them.

Quote From Actin

-Deny is fine with the current state of the game. It' the only thing that stops a lot of the current cancer in Frejlord and P&Z. If other spells in the game get hit with nerfs, then it would be fine to up the mana cost on Deny.

-The frostbite spells needs to be turned into fast instead of burst and/or have their mana costs increased. Ezrael decks are even less interactive than elusives. You can't do anything while they stall the game.

-Elusives needs some tuning. I think they would be fine if they just all lost HP. Just making them more fragile will reinforce the archetype.

-Lots of SI units and spells need nerfs too. Their removal spells are way too cost efficient and give too much utility. I would prefer if they nerfed fearsome before nerfing the spells though. I think the combination of the two is what makes SI so overwhelming

-All the fearsome units need to either have their mana costs increased or their HP reduced to 1. Way too strong and cost effective for so much HP.

-Ephemeral units are way too strong and will replace fearsome next. Spectral riders should be adjusted, which would help balance Hecarim out without directly nerfing him.

-Ledros needs to either be 10 mana or have fearsome removed.

-Hecarim needs his stats adjusted. I'm just throwing a number out, but he should probably be 5/4

-No one knows it yet, but Heimer is absolutely broken. He probably won't get any attention this patch, but expect him to be meta at some point soon.

-Can't offer much insight into Noxus, because no one uses it. I see maybe one deck a day and it's usually easy to win against if it's the primary region in the deck. Katarina just needs a new level up, and Draven's spinning axes should probably be 1 mana with no discard, and he should create two before the level up. Discarding to play spinning axes is unbelievably bad. Have not seen or played against a vlad or Darius deck yet.

 

 

 

to be fair, Ezreal decks are really gimmicky anyways.

All you need is a fast kill spell to murder him when they eventually play him and you're good. [Hearthstone Card (Culling Strike) Not Found], Vengeance, and other combos work quite well.

Quote From CursedParrot

He should really return to the top of the deck instead, that way you can’t play him the turn he dies (and he doesn’t give you “card draw” when he dies

That was actually a thought bouncing around my head after revisiting the Ledros thread this morning. Wouldn't be a bad idea as a change, though I wonder if it would make him unplayable.

Re: rest of OP's list:

- My main point - we're not going to see any sweeping changes at this point. For all that I rip on Rito's revolving door balance strategy, they have at least shown via TFT that they're capable of patience when a meta is still in heavy flux. At release (not all that long ago, really) we had a lot of Elusive complaints and they were flooding the meta - nerf calls abound. Fast forward to now, the meta has responded; Elusive isn't top of the pile because other things have risen up to counter them. 

- Major disagreement with any Lux changes. She's fine at doing what she does, as what she is - which is a lower-risk lower-reward Heimer.

- Major disagreement with basically the entire bottom half of your post. Elusives don't need nerfing at this stage as meta shifts show they're clearly counterable. Elise nerf would render her wholly unplayable as she'd lose far too much in the mirror - if time suggests spiders need a nerf they can be hit in other ways. I could maybe get behind nerfs to Rhasa and Cursed Keeper, but that's about it.

Overall, my view is that your list is basically saying 'nerf every popular deck in half a dozen ways so that they're wholly unplayable' - which really doesn't chime with your claim to be salt-free. That is not balancing - that's see-sawing.

Quote From Bystekhilcar

Quote From CursedParrot

He should really return to the top of the deck instead, that way you can’t play him the turn he dies (and he doesn’t give you “card draw” when he dies

That was actually a thought bouncing around my head after revisiting the Ledros thread this morning. Wouldn't be a bad idea as a change, though I wonder if it would make him unplayable.

Re: rest of OP's list:

- My main point - we're not going to see any sweeping changes at this point. For all that I rip on Rito's revolving door balance strategy, they have at least shown via TFT that they're capable of patience when a meta is still in heavy flux. At release (not all that long ago, really) we had a lot of Elusive complaints and they were flooding the meta - nerf calls abound. Fast forward to now, the meta has responded; Elusive isn't top of the pile because other things have risen up to counter them. 

- Major disagreement with any Lux changes. She's fine at doing what she does, as what she is - which is a lower-risk lower-reward Heimer.

- Major disagreement with basically the entire bottom half of your post. Elusives don't need nerfing at this stage as meta shifts show they're clearly counterable. Elise nerf would render her wholly unplayable as she'd lose far too much in the mirror - if time suggests spiders need a nerf they can be hit in other ways. I could maybe get behind nerfs to Rhasa and Cursed Keeper, but that's about it.

 

Overall, my view is that your list is basically saying 'nerf every popular deck in half a dozen ways so that they're wholly unplayable' - which really doesn't chime with your claim to be salt-free. That is not balancing - that's see-sawing.

I am not salty I just see that those decks are way too dominant, and Elise is too good of a 2 drop, I play fearsome/spiders/hecarim for a while so I am asking to nerf the deck I am playing cause I feel it's too strong, losing stuff in the mirror.. well Elise is part of the mirror lol.

I prefer to predict more nerfs that not also I don't claim ALL card should be nerfed just predicting what Riot might do.

In league balance when Riot nerfs something they nerf a lot of aspects of that something, also sometimes buff other aspects in the same time (see: aatrox and akali nerfs).

I don't believe it would make the decks unplayable, currently fearsome decks are over represented in the meta (Around 40% pick in masters according to swim), if you nerf 3 cards in the deck the deck is still really powerful.

Quote From DoubleSummon

-snip-

I am not salty I just see that those decks are way too dominant, and Elise is too good of a 2 drop, I play fearsome/spiders/hecarim for a while so I am asking to nerf the deck I am playing cause I feel it's too strong, losing stuff in the mirror.. well Elise is part of the mirror lol.

I prefer to predict more nerfs that not also I don't claim ALL card should be nerfed just predicting what Riot might do.

In league balance when Riot nerfs something they nerf a lot of aspects of that something, also sometimes buff other aspects in the same time (see: aatrox and akali nerfs).

I don't believe it would make the decks unplayable, currently fearsome decks are over represented in the meta (Around 40% pick in masters according to swim), if you nerf 3 cards in the deck the deck is still really powerful.

- Salt - The trouble with that argument is that Elusives aren't dominant anymore. And the fact that they were shifted from the top spot in a couple of weeks makes it clear that dominance is the result of a shifting meta, not power level. So why would Riot intervene in the meta to resolve something which isn't a power level issue? There's no reason to do so beyond silencing some whiners.

- Elise - Apologies, I wasn't clear. When I say she'd lose a lot in the mirror, I mean she'd lose a lot against non-spider SI decks. She'd find it difficult to find any window to attack at any stage of the game without relying on Fearsome alone to survive (which can be overridden with buffs, of course). 

- Predictions - I'm not sure throwing out a couple dozen nerfs and calling them predictions - particularly when your OP doesn't say that - is really predicting...

- Unplayability - Nerfing several of the central cards to a deck is pretty much always going to drop it out of the meta. Using HS as an example, most decks will die off to a single nerf, and if they come back it's either a result of a subsequent meta shift or a new angle being taken. Single nerfs can have significant winrate shifts, and blanket-nerfing a significant chunk of a deck is far more than just a single nerf. Hell, if it's just three cards, that's still up to 30% of a deck nerfed in one go (and incidentally, assuming we're sticking with the Dawnspiders example from before, that'd be four cards nerfed. Five if you count Ledros as part of it).

- Riot nerf strategy - I wholly disagree with that statement, just looking at the empirical evidence. In any given League patch notes, you'll see one, maybe two big nerfs/buffs at most (usually one). You'll also see a dozen small changes which happen alongside it. Just looking at 10.3 as an example - major Akali buff (1x big), minor changes to Aphelios, Azir, Corki, Diana, Ekko, Ezreal, Galio, Leona, MF, Rumble, Sejuani, Senna, Sett, Sona, Yuumi (15x small), plus some assorted other changes. This, incidentally, is analogous to my point above (although I don't point to it as a true example because the games are wholly different genres) - these small changes are often, in themselves, enough to push a champion out of the meta for a time. Small changes can have big impacts.

Incidentally, given we're clearly both prone to large posts, I advise snipping quotes as I have done above so as to mitigate their length at least a little!

Quote From Bystekhilcar

The trouble with that argument is that Elusives aren't dominant anymore. And the fact that they were shifted from the top spot in a couple of weeks makes it clear that dominance is the result of a shifting meta, not power level. So why would Riot intervene in the meta to resolve something which isn't a power level issue? There's no reason to do so beyond silencing some whiners.

I think there's still a point to be made about the (at least temporarily) high success of Elusive decks. They may have dropped off now due to the emergence of Fearsome decks, but that's only one archetype that's apparently able to beat Elusives consistently. Rather than concluding that all is well and dandy this way, I think it'd be prudent to ponder if maybe Elusive and Fearsome decks (which, incidentally, both use mechanics to prevent the opponent from blocking) are a tad too strong compared to the rest of the game's (plentiful) deck archetypes.

Honestly, the whole economy experiment is making balance a whole lot harder than it needs to be. I think maybe they didn't factor in the impact of streamers and the extent to which influencers warp the metagame when they cooked up this throttled progression plan.

The original idea was that different people would progress in different regions, and the meta would be more diverse because of that.

The reality is that most people progressed in the regions streamers were showcasing, and certain archetypes became way more popular than they deserved, simply because yes, they were strong, but also because so many people locked themselves into those archetypes and had to open more Vaults before they could branch out. In fact, I'm sure a lot of free players are still stuck in one or two of those early flavors of the week.

Paying players have been able to branch out and try a lot of new things, but even so, very few people (if any) have a full set -- though it is technically possible at this point, with enough Expedition grinding to level up all regions.

My point is, what we see as overused, seemingly overpowered archetypes may in many cases have more to do with hivemind trends than actual power levels. When the vast majority of players sank all of their resources into very similar subsets of cards, it probably did not create an accurate picture of what's actually strong.

You're absolutely correct, but having archetypes like fearsome being so dominate discourages the majority of people from experimenting. I think we might actually see Noxus open up a little bit when Ionia and SI get toned down.

I believe we're less than 30 minutes from finding out--so excited!

the nerfs I predicted were almost on point.. forgot to mention back to back which I though was needing a nerf as well.. I really like the buffs they did. only hit Scuttlegeist as a buff target (but not the buff itself) and Lux which I was right about her not showing up enough to get buffed..

Deny was a no brainer prediction.. but I thought they would do something else rather than a mana cost change.

Inspiring Mentor - @cursed parrot predicted the nerf well also it makes the most sense.. I stated an overnerf to the card.

Kinkou Lifeblade - ye I was right about it being a nerf target and one of the nerfs.

Rhasa the Sunderer - yep, as expected.

Commander Ledros - almost, didn't predict the rounding nerf (there's a thread asking for it..), and didn't expect the small buff.

Looking forward to try the newly buffed cards now :D

Also thanks for the mod who changed the title, I made a mistake in calling it just changes.. those were predictions mostly to see which will happen and which won't..

Quote From DoubleSummon

Commander Ledros - almost, didn't predict the rounding nerf (there's a thread asking for it..), and didn't expect the small buff.

There was no rounding nerf - he still rounds up, but now it's explicitly stated in the card text. Oops - looks like I actually read it wrong. I thought the damage done to the nexus was rounded up, not the remaining nexus health. I don't think it makes much of a difference either way.

I'm mostly happy with the patch changes, although I have a feeling that Rhasa and Ledros will still be stupid strong.

Was also very surprised at the hefty buff to Jeweled Protector - total stats of 7/7 for 5 mana seems a bit crazy (I would've reduced the hand buff to +2/+3, myself). I might just pick him back up for my control deck.

I will mention that I love a lot of the changes and fixes outside of balancing, but that's a matter for a different thread.

Quote From BlueSpark

I'm mostly happy with the patch changes, although I have a feeling that Rhasa and Ledros will still be stupid strong.

Was also very surprised at the hefty buff to Jeweled Protector - total stats of 7/7 for 5 mana seems a bit crazy (I would've reduced the hand buff to +2/+3, myself). I might just pick him back up for my control deck.

I absolutely agree about Ledros. The fact that simply playing him over and over can no longer win the game is a big deal, but I still think he should be a Champion.

Jeweled Protector is still fine because it gives away information. Knowing there's a fatty in the works can make a big difference in how the opponent plays.

The +3/+3 from Jeweled Protector is also slow: you need to have the target in hand when you play him, and you probably aren't playing that target on the same turn so its a delayed effect.  Contrast with Avarosan Hearthguard, who conceivably can give ~20/~20 worth of stats for that same 5 mana but because most of those stats trickle out he goes from auto-include 3x to worthy consideration.

Quote From OldManSanns

The +3/+3 from Jeweled Protector is also slow: you need to have the target in hand when you play him, and you probably aren't playing that target on the same turn so its a delayed effect.  Contrast with Avarosan Hearthguard, who conceivably can give ~20/~20 worth of stats for that same 5 mana but because most of those stats trickle out he goes from auto-include 3x to worthy consideration.

Tbf Hearthguard was auto-3x until they nerfed Freljord control :P

Jewelled Protector has a major upside in that you can target it, though, which is valuable because some cards use the stats better than others. It's a lot more impactful to give +3/+3 to a Kinkou Lifeblade than to Icy Yeti, for example.

Quote From FortyDust

Quote From BlueSpark

I'm mostly happy with the patch changes, although I have a feeling that Rhasa and Ledros will still be stupid strong.

Was also very surprised at the hefty buff to Jeweled Protector - total stats of 7/7 for 5 mana seems a bit crazy (I would've reduced the hand buff to +2/+3, myself). I might just pick him back up for my control deck.

I absolutely agree about Ledros. The fact that simply playing him over and over can no longer win the game is a big deal, but I still think he should be a Champion.

Jeweled Protector is still fine because it gives away information. Knowing there's a fatty in the works can make a big difference in how the opponent plays.

Yeah so I just played against the nerfed Ledros but the damage is still rounded up, so unfortunately he can still kill you if you're at 1 health. :(

Quote From GerritDeMan

Yeah so I just played against the nerfed Ledros but the damage is still rounded up, so unfortunately he can still kill you if you're at 1 health. :(

I am not surprised. I strongly suspected everyone was misinterpreting the text clarification. Thank you for confirming.

So, obviously, this will not do at all, Riot!

Quote From OldManSanns

The +3/+3 from Jeweled Protector is also slow: you need to have the target in hand when you play him, and you probably aren't playing that target on the same turn so its a delayed effect.  Contrast with Avarosan Hearthguard, who conceivably can give ~20/~20 worth of stats for that same 5 mana but because most of those stats trickle out he goes from auto-include 3x to worthy consideration.

Point taken. I'm still not entirely convinced that this buff was the right move, but compared to Hearthguard, it doesn't seem so crazy after all. Then again, perhaps Hearthguard's effect could turn out a bit overbearing, at least in certain kinds of decks.

Quote From FortyDust

Quote From GerritDeMan

Yeah so I just played against the nerfed Ledros but the damage is still rounded up, so unfortunately he can still kill you if you're at 1 health. :(

I am not surprised. I strongly suspected everyone was misinterpreting the text clarification. Thank you for confirming.

So, obviously, this will not do at all, Riot!

Yeah I missed what it actually meant I assumed it got nerfed.. but nope.. +1 mana AND +1 attack but the same effect.