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Legends of Runeterra | Posted by | 6 years ago
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Mulligan system

Howdy!

I'm pretty new to card games generally. Always wanted to try one out, but I always felt overwhelmed by number of decks, strategies etc. So when I've heard that new one is coming out and it is going to be launched by a company that really delivers, when promise that their game is free to play, I jump immideitly :) And I felt for it from the start :)

I do have one big problem tho... It's about mulligan system. I don't think anything triggers me more than drawing a card I just discarded during mulligan phase. Don't you think you should be protected from this kind of situation. I feel like mulligan system is the only way you can prepare yourself for upcoming match after you can see what kind of deck your opponent is probably playing. For example you run control deck and face aggro, so you definitely don't want to start with a "warmother's call" in your hand. You dicard it and boom - it's in your hand again :/ I really feel like this shouldn't happen. I even think you should be protected to draw it in first round, so when you discard a card in mulligan phase, you are sure that it won't be in your starting hand...

What do you think about it? Also I'm really curious how does it work in other card games... I can imagine it would be hard to implement in real live card game, but LoR never aim to be one, I believe...

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  • Howdy!

    I'm pretty new to card games generally. Always wanted to try one out, but I always felt overwhelmed by number of decks, strategies etc. So when I've heard that new one is coming out and it is going to be launched by a company that really delivers, when promise that their game is free to play, I jump immideitly :) And I felt for it from the start :)

    I do have one big problem tho... It's about mulligan system. I don't think anything triggers me more than drawing a card I just discarded during mulligan phase. Don't you think you should be protected from this kind of situation. I feel like mulligan system is the only way you can prepare yourself for upcoming match after you can see what kind of deck your opponent is probably playing. For example you run control deck and face aggro, so you definitely don't want to start with a "warmother's call" in your hand. You dicard it and boom - it's in your hand again :/ I really feel like this shouldn't happen. I even think you should be protected to draw it in first round, so when you discard a card in mulligan phase, you are sure that it won't be in your starting hand...

    What do you think about it? Also I'm really curious how does it work in other card games... I can imagine it would be hard to implement in real live card game, but LoR never aim to be one, I believe...

  • No, you should not be guaranteed to not draw the same card as long as you have another copy.. that's how card games work, and that's a risk you take when you mulligan.

    In HS it's the same, and also in shadowverse I used to play 2 years ago.

    You do not draw the same card but a copy if you have it.

    • Quote From DoubleSummon

      You do not draw the same card but a copy if you have it.

      This. As long as you're running 3 or even just 2 copies of the same card and ditch one of them from your opening hand, there's a chance you'll draw another copy of the same card. Which is only right as far as I'm concerned. I mean, in a purely digital card game, it would of course be possible to lock all other copies of the mulligan'd card out of the drawing pool, but I feel that would be a weird and inconsistent special rule. If you pack 3 copies of a card into your deck, your chances of drawing one of those at any given point drastically increase (in comparison to 2-ofs or 1-ofs) - for better or for worse.

      Edit: Oops, I left my browser window open for a while and didn't realize how many more posts had already been submitted before I wrote mine. Oh well.

      • Quote From BlueSpark

         

        Edit: Oops, I left my browser window open for a while and didn't realize how many more posts had already been submitted before I wrote mine. Oh well.

        You still add a good point to the conversation :) Thanks for input

  • It is mostly same with all of digital card games.

    In MTG, it is a bit different. You draw 7 cards, if you don't like them, put all of them to your deck and draw new 6, you can mulligan it again but draw 5 cards and 4 and 3 and 2 and 1 same with physical version. After a bit they changed that system for digital version (MTG:A) but i left the game so really don't remember how they changed it.

    Btw, When you mulligan, it doesn't give the same card to you, it gives another copy of it I believe and only Highlander decks can protect you from this kind of situation which are the decks that you can only put 1 copy of a card to your deck which isn't really a thing and supported in Runeterra.

    Mulligan has its own balance in my opinion. It is same for your opponent too and if there is no RNG factor in card games, it won't be so different than chess-like games and in those games, all players are equal and shares same resources which isn't valid for card games. In card games, like you said in your OP, there are archetypes as Aggro, Control, Combo, Midrange. If mulligan and card drawing RNG are not in games, most of the games will be same and you will know that you will win or lose when you face a countering archetype so you will basically concede at turn 1 which will cause game to death, I mean, noone will continue to play that game. Mulligan and drawing is all same in card games. Some card games like Pokemon TCG has some tools to abuse it. There is a card in Pokemon TCG for example, put cards in your hand to deck and makes you draw same amount. That game's system let's you do that and that abuse doesn't really matter because of its system but it will matter in games like Runeterra and Hearthstone. Btw, There is also a card in Hearthstone as Plot Twist, but in Pokemon TCG, there is a different system with trainer cards etc. so you don't spend same resource for playing that card like Hearthstone. There is a different system which might confuse you more right now and takes some time because i need to explain whole system here to make you understand but there is no point for doing that. :D

    So, in my opinion, In games like Runeterra, Hearthstone and MTG:A, this card draw and mulligan system is a must that lets archetypes help to recover in rough situations sometimes because of bad mulligan of your opponent.

    That being said, any deck that has god-draw and mulligan can beat any deck. That is true mostly and here comes mulligan and RNG on card draws to balance it.

    These are half my opinions and half some explanations. I hope you understand my explanations and the points of my opinions. You don't need to embrace them tho. :)

    • Quote From Almaniarra

      It is mostly same with all of digital card games.

      In MTG, it is a bit different. You draw 7 cards, if you don't like them, put all of them to your deck and draw new 6, you can mulligan it again but draw 5 cards and 4 and 3 and 2 and 1 same with physical version. After a bit they changed that system for digital version (MTG:A) but i left the game so really don't remember how they changed it.

      Btw, When you mulligan, it doesn't give the same card to you, it gives another copy of it I believe and only Highlander decks can protect you from this kind of situation which are the decks that you can only put 1 copy of a card to your deck which isn't really a thing and supported in Runeterra.

      Mulligan has its own balance in my opinion. It is same for your opponent too and if there is no RNG factor in card games, it won't be so different than chess-like games and in those games, all players are equal and shares same resources which isn't valid for card games. In card games, like you said in your OP, there are archetypes as Aggro, Control, Combo, Midrange. If mulligan and card drawing RNG are not in games, most of the games will be same and you will know that you will win or lose when you face a countering archetype so you will basically concede at turn 1 which will cause game to death, I mean, noone will continue to play that game. Mulligan and drawing is all same in card games. Some card games like Pokemon TCG has some tools to abuse it. There is a card in Pokemon TCG for example, put cards in your hand to deck and makes you draw same amount. That game's system let's you do that and that abuse doesn't really matter because of its system but it will matter in games like Runeterra and Hearthstone. Btw, There is also a card in Hearthstone as Plot Twist, but in Pokemon TCG, there is a different system with trainer cards etc. so you don't spend same resource for playing that card like Hearthstone. There is a different system which might confuse you more right now and takes some time because i need to explain whole system here to make you understand but there is no point for doing that. :D

      So, in my opinion, In games like Runeterra, Hearthstone and MTG:A, this card draw and mulligan system is a must that lets archetypes help to recover in rough situations sometimes because of bad mulligan of your opponent.

      That being said, any deck that has god-draw and mulligan can beat any deck. That is true mostly and here comes mulligan and RNG on card draws to balance it.

      These are half my opinions and half some explanations. I hope you understand my explanations and the points of my opinions. You don't need to embrace them tho. :)

      About the MTG Mulligan Change it works kinda as it did before just that you draw always 7 cards and chose which cards to be placed under your deck, making it less awkward to deal with landscrew/flood

  • Thank you so much for trying to explain it to a newbie ;)

    I just thought that there is enough of RNG in card games already, so this little aspect could be a little more "reliable", but when you put it that way - I start to realise it's not a little aspect... I'll try not trigger so much when it happens to me :)

    Overall I still try to figure out how much of luck and how much of skill is needed to win in card games. The luck factor was always a bit of a problem for me in competitive games (i played LOL mostly, when it's almost non-existing), so I need to switch I guess :D

    Edit: And thank you for covering something I was about to ask, but forgot :D I wasn't sure if you can draw the same card, or just an exact copy of it during mulligan phase. Now I know :)

    • If you believe that some cards make your hand flow, you can drop some copies of them.

      With your example for instance; Put 2x Warmother's Call instead of 3x. You can always use some deckbuilding tricks to get better mulligan by setting your mana curve etc.

      Mostly luck-oriented but you'll learn in time mostly how you mulligan. Even with worst mulligan, you can win hardest games if your deck is built well enough.

  • Cheers! Thanks for the tips :)

    • @alfi

      Still applies to LoR.