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Legends of Runeterra | Posted by | 5 years, 11 months ago
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Why is elusive in the game ?

I know it can be beaten (mainly by shadow isles ... ). I know there's way around it.

Still, why is such a toxic mechanic in the game? Wether it's op or not (I personally think that buffs are the main problem in terms of those decks being op), playing against mass elusives is EXTREMELY boring, anti-fun and generaly just toxic.

Even if you play the perfect counter deck, if they draw the right buffs at the right time, you'll lose,  no matther what you do. I just played a game where my opponent played Solitary monk on 3 and buffed it +9/+9 with triple Take heart on turn 6 after blocking 1 of my attacks. Unless you play instant  removal from Shadow isles (Vengeance, which would still be a stretch on turn 6) or some gimmicky spells like Purify or Noxian Guillotine, there's is no way you ever ever win that game as any decks even if you play and draw perfectly. 

A mechanic LITERALLY based around avoinding any kind of interactions with your opponent should NEVER be a viable part of a card game.

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  • I know it can be beaten (mainly by shadow isles ... ). I know there's way around it.

    Still, why is such a toxic mechanic in the game? Wether it's op or not (I personally think that buffs are the main problem in terms of those decks being op), playing against mass elusives is EXTREMELY boring, anti-fun and generaly just toxic.

    Even if you play the perfect counter deck, if they draw the right buffs at the right time, you'll lose,  no matther what you do. I just played a game where my opponent played Solitary monk on 3 and buffed it +9/+9 with triple Take heart on turn 6 after blocking 1 of my attacks. Unless you play instant  removal from Shadow isles (Vengeance, which would still be a stretch on turn 6) or some gimmicky spells like Purify or Noxian Guillotine, there's is no way you ever ever win that game as any decks even if you play and draw perfectly. 

    A mechanic LITERALLY based around avoinding any kind of interactions with your opponent should NEVER be a viable part of a card game.

    • As a new player I was really frustrated with the elusive decks that *felt* OP, so I started playing a lot of Ionia to better understand their strengths and weaknesses  Maybe it's because my starter Ionia + P&Z deck isn't optimized properly, but spamming elusive units or setting up for the Empyrian K.O. blow has earned me as many losses as wins.  

      Any deck with the perfect draws can feel unbeatable if played correctly.    

    • Quote From Alecsharks

      I know it can be beaten (mainly by shadow isles ... ). I know there's way around it.

      Still, why is such a toxic mechanic in the game? Wether it's op or not (I personally think that buffs are the main problem in terms of those decks being op), playing against mass elusives is EXTREMELY boring, anti-fun and generaly just toxic.

      Even if you play the perfect counter deck, if they draw the right buffs at the right time, you'll lose,  no matther what you do. I just played a game where my opponent played Solitary monk on 3 and buffed it +9/+9 with triple Take heart on turn 6 after blocking 1 of my attacks. Unless you play instant  removal from Shadow isles (Vengeance, which would still be a stretch on turn 6) or some gimmicky spells like Purify or Noxian Guillotine, there's is no way you ever ever win that game as any decks even if you play and draw perfectly. 

      A mechanic LITERALLY based around avoinding any kind of interactions with your opponent should NEVER be a viable part of a card game.

      I don't think its a bad mechanic. I just think there are to many of them. Its such a strong mechanic in and of it self it should be dedicated to a few key cards but not be made so you can literally build a complete deck full of them.

      • Quote From Vincent3383
        I don't think its a bad mechanic. I just think there are to many of them. Its such a strong mechanic in and of it self it should be dedicated to a few key cards but not be made so you can literally build a complete deck full of them.

        I think limiting Elusives this way would only delay the problem, though - as more expansions come out, the natural expectation would be for more Elusive cards to be released eventually. So I'd see it as a short-term solution at best. I'd rather they try to balance the actual mechanic and/or the units which possess it for the sake of the game's long-term health.

        • Quote From BlueSpark
          Quote From Vincent3383
          I don't think its a bad mechanic. I just think there are to many of them. Its such a strong mechanic in and of it self it should be dedicated to a few key cards but not be made so you can literally build a complete deck full of them.

          I think limiting Elusives this way would only delay the problem, though - as more expansions come out, the natural expectation would be for more Elusive cards to be released eventually. So I'd see it as a short-term solution at best. I'd rather they try to balance the actual mechanic and/or the units which possess it for the sake of the game's long-term health.

          I have been thinking about it since making that post and I agree with you. I think a good way take make it balanced would be if the elusive card has either taken damage or done damage in any way. They lose their elusive statues since they have now been seen.

          • Quote From Vincent3383
            I have been thinking about it since making that post and I agree with you. I think a good way take make it balanced would be if the elusive card has either taken damage or done damage in any way. They lose their elusive statues since they have now been seen.

            I'm not sure making Elusive only last for a short time is the right way to go. But I'm not completely opposed to it, either.

            Assuming it would get implemented, I'd drop the "damage taken" part at the very least. In fact, I'd say only eliminate a unit's elusive status after it has attacked and dealth combat damage. Anything else would make the keyword too weak in my opinion.

  • There has been a lot of discussion on Elusives through the open beta. The fact is, the mechanic of limited unit interaction is not inherently broken - MTG has it in the form of flying and it works without any major issues.

    The problem is that Riot hasn't printed enough tools for enough regions to make interaction something you can consistently tech for. P&Z has damage based removal, SI has damage based and hard removal, Demacia has challengers, but many of the tools available are insufficient to deal with a big, early elusive minion. Run the "wrong" regions and you're just screwed.

    There are ways to beat it today, and the metagame should balance as people optimize Rising TIdes decks. Play around it as best you can, give them one or two more expansions and then see if the mechanic is still super broken - that will tell you whether the game has a real, persistent problem here that can't be fixed without a major rework.

  • Fearsome = cant be blocked by units with 2 or less power
    Elusive = cant be blocked by units with X or less health (X depends on balance, 3 is good start)
    * Or if you want make it more "lore friendly" make it so it cant be blocked by units with X or MORE health (so, fat guys wont be fast enough to catch them lol)

    Problem solved. If with that change elusives wont be strong enough, just buff that units stats.

     

  • I would think the best way to counter elusives to use Challenger, Frostbite, and Stun units. Don’t focus on killing them as much as making them obsolete.