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Legends of Runeterra | Posted by | 5 years, 10 months ago
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Stand United and Challenger interaction

I found out just now that using [Hearthstone Card (Stand United) Not Found] on two units which have been targeted by opponent's Challenger attackers completely negates the Challenger effect. I mean I guess it is intended, but still I don't really find it fair that just by swapping two units' places you can basically disengage them from combat or even use them to block any other attacker. The card already disrupts your plans by swapping them (and giving them barrier), why should it even have this further interaction? I might also just be a bit salty over losing to an opponent who used this trick 3 times in a row, but still...

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  • I found out just now that using [Hearthstone Card (Stand United) Not Found] on two units which have been targeted by opponent's Challenger attackers completely negates the Challenger effect. I mean I guess it is intended, but still I don't really find it fair that just by swapping two units' places you can basically disengage them from combat or even use them to block any other attacker. The card already disrupts your plans by swapping them (and giving them barrier), why should it even have this further interaction? I might also just be a bit salty over losing to an opponent who used this trick 3 times in a row, but still...

    • Quote From ZOctavius

      I found out just now that using Stand United on two units which have been targeted by opponent's Challenger attackers completely negates the Challenger effect. I mean I guess it is intended, but still I don't really find it fair that just by swapping two units' places you can basically disengage them from combat or even use them to block any other attacker. The card already disrupts your plans by swapping them (and giving them barrier), why should it even have this further interaction? I might also just be a bit salty over losing to an opponent who used this trick 3 times in a row, but still...

      I actually like that interaction--it's a unique mechanic which can adds a lot of potential depth, and Ionia is the perfect region for it.  FYI its not just challenger--e.g., if someone is trying to pick off your backline unit with a Single Combat, you can drop Stand United and not only barrier the original target but also swap in a high attack unit which can kill off the combatter.  Sure, its powerful, but as TriMay points out its 6 mana.  Compare to other 6 mana spells like Back to Back and Frozen Winds.

      I dislike that its paired almost exclusively with Demacia win-board decks and I'm really tired of Demacia win-board decks, but that's a separate topic.

  • I admit, burst damage negation is annoying...
    But the spell costs 6 mana :/
    Learn to be cautious of your opponents remaining mana, especially after the first time they pull something like this off.

    My question is, does it fully disengage them and let you do whatever with the 2 units? If 2 units both being challenged are targeted, does it disengage them both? If so, that IS pretty busted and sounds buggy...

    • Quote From TriMay

      I admit, burst damage negation is annoying...
      But the spell costs 6 mana :/
      Learn to be cautious of your opponents remaining mana, especially after the first time they pull something like this off.

      My question is, does it fully disengage them and let you do whatever with the 2 units? If 2 units both being challenged are targeted, does it disengage them both? If so, that IS pretty busted and sounds buggy...

      It does disengage them both, that is exactly my point. I don't mind them swapping places, just the fact that they can completely avoid my attacks OR even block other units that I thought were safe to attack without being blocked (since there were no other blockers on his board).

      Every remark the other posters made is completely fine, they are talking about swapping targets, which is NOT what I'm complaining about. The point is that it disengages from combat your units which is technically not part of the effect.

      Edit: Also, about checking the mana left and all that, ofc I was cautious, it's just that the interaction completely caught me off-guard (and looks like some others here didn't know about that either). And actually the first time I thought I missed something, the second time I was completely in disbelief, and the third I just thought 'come on, he can't have a third one, can he?'. But hey, I know that's on me. And again it's not the point of my post.

      • Quote From ZOctavius
        Quote From TriMay

        My question is, does it fully disengage them and let you do whatever with the 2 units? If 2 units both being challenged are targeted, does it disengage them both? If so, that IS pretty busted and sounds buggy...

        It does disengage them both, that is exactly my point. I don't mind them swapping places, just the fact that they can completely avoid my attacks OR even block other units that I thought were safe to attack without being blocked (since there were no other blockers on his board).

        Every remark the other posters made is completely fine, they are talking about swapping targets, which is NOT what I'm complaining about. The point is that it disengages from combat your units which is technically not part of the effect.

        Sorry, I missed that point when I first read this thread.

        That might be an unintended bug.  I want to say I've done this in the past expeditions and the swapped unit went in place of the challenged unit without the option to rearrange.  Ionia is my least played region by a mile so I can't speak too confidently about it.

        • Quote From OldManSanns
          Quote From ZOctavius
          Quote From TriMay

          My question is, does it fully disengage them and let you do whatever with the 2 units? If 2 units both being challenged are targeted, does it disengage them both? If so, that IS pretty busted and sounds buggy...

          It does disengage them both, that is exactly my point. I don't mind them swapping places, just the fact that they can completely avoid my attacks OR even block other units that I thought were safe to attack without being blocked (since there were no other blockers on his board).

          Every remark the other posters made is completely fine, they are talking about swapping targets, which is NOT what I'm complaining about. The point is that it disengages from combat your units which is technically not part of the effect.

          Sorry, I missed that point when I first read this thread.

          That might be an unintended bug.  I want to say I've done this in the past expeditions and the swapped unit went in place of the challenged unit without the option to rearrange.  Ionia is my least played region by a mile so I can't speak too confidently about it.

          It does go in place of the challenged unit, but it looks like you can rearrange afterwards; still I guess it only works if you are still in your first blocking phase and not answering to an opponent's spell (any of those might have been a reason to miss the interaction). Still I can't believe it's just a recent bug, since both mechanics have always been in the game. At this point, it might even be an intended interaction, making challenged units only bound by their own 'challenger' or something like that.

           

          Also reading again my first statement, my point wasn't very clear, I guess it was easy to misunderstand.

  • I think what it does is just swap the targets, which makes perfect sense with how Challenger works. If you Target one unit with a spell and then your opponent swaps that unit with another one, the spell will now Target the other unit. If you think of Challenger as a spell that says “choose a unit to block this” then it makes perfect sense. Stand United is in general a pretty bad spell though (since Barrier decks aren’t very good) so I don’t think it’s that much of an issue. If you’re facing a lot of barriers, just run cards like Make it Rain, Withering Wail, or Death Lotus to remove the barriers.

  • UPDATE: not a bug, it's intended. I sent a ticket to ask about this. Looks like as soon as a challenged unit leaves its position it's not subject to Challenge anymore. I guess we can only see that with Stand United though, since it's the only burst spell that affects units' positions on the board (maybe Transfusion could create some similar interaction with the right unit, idk, these are the only 2 burst cards that mess with the board dealing damage or moving units). Also I guess Vulnerable would have the same interaction with the card.