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On HGC draft pick/ban stats for newer heroes

The HGC pick rate that pops up on screen during draft shows overall pick rate across all matches. This metric doesn't make a whole lot of sense for newer heroes; the one I just saw said that Garrosh has a 7% pick / 0% ban rate in NA. This is misleading at best, since he's actually closer to 45% pick and 5% ban since release according to masterleague (not including tonight's games)

I propose the hero statistics be changed to count only games since that hero became allowed in HGC, not since the start of the season.

Matt MacNeil
Posted 7 years, 1 month ago (Source)
Tagging others that responded in the thread. /u/ekzor /u/JHunz /u/Glaiele

I agree that there's a degree of confusion here. I do have a question/situation for you though in response.

Let's say 100 games were played pre-Garrosh. Garrosh gets picked and we show he has:
- 100% pick rate
- 0% ban rate
- and 0% win rate.
To the some viewers this probably makes sense as they know he's the new hero so they think, "ok these are his stats since coming in most likely."

The next pick is Illidan who has been seen in 50 games. So his stats look something like,
- 35% pick rate
- 15% ban rate
- 72% win rate (didn't check the math don't hurt me)
Most viewers familiar with HGC and Heroes would say ok, that's the Phase 2 stats for Illidan, I get that.

So now we have two separated stats for Heroes that most people can wrap their heads around because they're fairly intuitive.

Next up we bring in Kel'thuzad in a few weeks.

KT enters in the same way that Garrosh did. Only showing his stats etc. People get that again.

But not what happens when the cycle rolls over to show these three again? Do we keep Garrosh's stats to only be the one's he's been involved in?

If we do then now we have stats that look like:
- Illidan - 124 games possible
- Garrosh - 24 games possible
- KT - 1 game possible
Ultimately what I'm getting at is in the world of stats we're pretty much always going to run into things where something is going to look weird when new data is constantly being added. I agree with you that maybe we should experiment with first week stats for Heroes, I'll talk to the production team.

Just wanted to give some insight into the thought process :)
Matt MacNeil

Posted 7 years, 1 month ago (Source)

Why not just add any asterisk the way regular sports do it and put a little note that says "hero playable since week X"

Honest answer, that's a lot of work and puts far more stress on the production team to maintain that.
Matt MacNeil

Posted 7 years, 1 month ago (Source)

hey /u/eSportsMatt, didnt think it was worth making a new thread but hope you see this: thanks for implementing the feedback! the new display is a lot better. One quick note: "Pick #" and "Ban #" can imply 'rank' vs 'number of times'. I'd recommend the labels "Picks" and "Bans" instead just to remove any ambiguity.

Thanks for listening!

Still iterating as always.

We were originally going to go with "Times picked" and "Times banned" but ended up looking too clunky.

<blockquote class="quoted">
    
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Tagging others that responded in the thread. <a href="/u/ekzor">/u/ekzor</a> <a href="/u/JHunz">/u/JHunz</a> <a href="/u/Glaiele">/u/Glaiele</a> </p>

<p>I agree that there's a degree of confusion here.  I do have a question/situation for you though in response.  </p>

<p>Let's say 100 games were played pre-Garrosh.  Garrosh gets picked and we show he has:</p>

<p>To the some viewers this probably makes sense as they know he's the new hero so they think, "ok these are his stats since coming in most likely."</p>

<p>The next pick is Illidan who has been seen in 50 games.  So his stats look something like, </p>

<ul>
<li>35% pick rate</li>
<li>15% ban rate</li>
<li>72% win rate (didn't check the math don't hurt me)</li>
</ul>

<p>Most viewers familiar with HGC and Heroes would say ok, that's the Phase 2 stats for Illidan, I get that.</p>

<p>So now we have two separated stats for Heroes that most people can wrap their heads around because they're fairly intuitive.</p>

<p>Next up we bring in Kel'thuzad in a few weeks.</p>

<p>KT enters in the same way that Garrosh did.  Only showing his stats etc.  People get that again.  </p>

<p>But not what happens when the cycle rolls over to show these three again?  Do we keep Garrosh's stats to only be the one's he's been involved in?</p>

<p>If we do then now we have stats that look like:</p>

<ul>
<li>Illidan - 124 games possible</li>
<li>Garrosh - 24 games possible</li>
<li>KT - 1 game possible</li>
</ul>

<p>Ultimately what I'm getting at is in the world of stats we're pretty much always going to run into things where something is going to look weird when new data is constantly being added.  I agree with you that maybe we should experiment with first week stats for Heroes, I'll talk to the production team. </p>

<p>Just wanted to give some insight into the thought process :)</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6wg5m9/on_hgc_draft_pickban_stats_for_newer_heroes/dm9aghd">Matt MacNeil</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>Why not just add any asterisk the way regular sports do it and put a little note that says "hero playable since week X"</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Honest answer, that's a lot of work and puts far more stress on the production team to maintain that.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6wg5m9/on_hgc_draft_pickban_stats_for_newer_heroes/dm9hdc8">Matt MacNeil</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>hey <a href="/u/eSportsMatt">/u/eSportsMatt</a>, didnt think it was worth making a new thread but hope you see this: thanks for implementing the feedback! the new display is a lot better. One quick note: "Pick #" and "Ban #" can imply 'rank' vs 'number of times'. I'd recommend the labels "Picks" and "Bans" instead just to remove any ambiguity.</p>

<p>Thanks for listening!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Still iterating as always.</p>

<p>We were originally going to go with "Times picked" and "Times banned" but ended up looking too clunky.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6wg5m9/on_hgc_draft_pickban_stats_for_newer_heroes/dmlh9fs">Matt MacNeil</a>)
<hr/>

Tweet

<p><div class="md"><p>Tagging others that responded in the thread. <a href="/u/ekzor">/u/ekzor</a> <a href="/u/JHunz">/u/JHunz</a> <a href="/u/Glaiele">/u/Glaiele</a> </p>

<p>I agree that there's a degree of confusion here.  I do have a question/situation for you though in response.  </p>

<p>Let's say 100 games were played pre-Garrosh.  Garrosh gets picked and we show he has:</p>

<p>To the some viewers this probably makes sense as they know he's the new hero so they think, "ok these are his stats since coming in most likely."</p>

<p>The next pick is Illidan who has been seen in 50 games.  So his stats look something like, </p>

<ul>
<li>35% pick rate</li>
<li>15% ban rate</li>
<li>72% win rate (didn't check the math don't hurt me)</li>
</ul>

<p>Most viewers familiar with HGC and Heroes would say ok, that's the Phase 2 stats for Illidan, I get that.</p>

<p>So now we have two separated stats for Heroes that most people can wrap their heads around because they're fairly intuitive.</p>

<p>Next up we bring in Kel'thuzad in a few weeks.</p>

<p>KT enters in the same way that Garrosh did.  Only showing his stats etc.  People get that again.  </p>

<p>But not what happens when the cycle rolls over to show these three again?  Do we keep Garrosh's stats to only be the one's he's been involved in?</p>

<p>If we do then now we have stats that look like:</p>

<ul>
<li>Illidan - 124 games possible</li>
<li>Garrosh - 24 games possible</li>
<li>KT - 1 game possible</li>
</ul>

<p>Ultimately what I'm getting at is in the world of stats we're pretty much always going to run into things where something is going to look weird when new data is constantly being added.  I agree with you that maybe we should experiment with first week stats for Heroes, I'll talk to the production team. </p>

<p>Just wanted to give some insight into the thought process :)</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6wg5m9/on_hgc_draft_pickban_stats_for_newer_heroes/dm9aghd">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Honest answer, that's a lot of work and puts far more stress on the production team to maintain that.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6wg5m9/on_hgc_draft_pickban_stats_for_newer_heroes/dm9hdc8">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Still iterating as always.</p>

<p>We were originally going to go with "Times picked" and "Times banned" but ended up looking too clunky.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6wg5m9/on_hgc_draft_pickban_stats_for_newer_heroes/dmlh9fs">Source</a>)</p>
    
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