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Tracks Blizzard employees across various accounts.

I appreciate the nerfs coming next week for @PlayHearthstone, but the more I play against quests of all varieties the more I dread them being around for another year and a half. They just make games play out so similarly all the time and I'm already beyond sick of them.

I appreciate the nerfs coming next week for @PlayHearthstone, but the more I play against quests of all varieties the more I dread them being around for another year and a half. They just make games play out so similarly all the time and I'm already beyond sick of them.

  • bmkibler
    Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
    I appreciate the nerfs coming next week for @PlayHearthstone, but the more I play against quests of all varieties the more I dread them being around for another year and a half. They just make games play out so similarly all the time and I'm already beyond sick of them.

    • bmkibler
      Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
      I'm having a ton of fun playing most non-quest matchups and pretty much sitting with my eyes glazed over as virtually the same game happens against every quest deck, and it's really killing my desire to play the game or brew up decks.

      • Iksar
        Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
        @bmkibler Do you think this applies to most players or is it just a personal preference thing?

        • dan0play
          Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
          @IksarHS @bmkibler Not Kibler, but I've had this exact conversation with friends over discord lately.

          • Iksar
            Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
            @dan0play @bmkibler Yeah, obviously hard to answer. Powerful/popular things are always met with some frustration. Question becomes if quests are more or less fun than the average powerful/popular thing that would take its place.

        • bmkibler
          Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
          @IksarHS I'm not sure. I know that lots of my viewers share my sentiment, but that's obviously a self-selecting group who tend to enjoy the same sort of more variable gameplay that I do. I imagine that there are a lot of players who enjoy the very directed gameplay of quests.

          • bmkibler
            Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
            @IksarHS My general feeling as a designer is that a greater possible variety of gameplay experiences creates a higher level of replayability, and people who engage less may enjoy the streamlined nature of quests giving direction but people who play more are more likely to get bored faster

            • Iksar
              Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
              @bmkibler This is probably true, though I wonder how much more variety the meta would have when just removing quests outright. I generally find that the average player doesn’t see much of a difference between aggro Druid and a quest deck when it comes to varied gameplay.

        • HS_Orange
          Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
          @IksarHS @bmkibler I dont mean to diminish Kiblers opinion in any way. I just want to say that I personally do enjoy the Quests a lot. I think there are lots of interesting planning you are able to make when both players have a clear goal in mind. But i understand i could be in the minority here

          • bmkibler
            Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
            @HS_Orange @IksarHS Yeah, I saw a lot of top level competitive players say they really enjoyed even pre-nerf Stormwind metagame with tons of OTK decks, and I can see how trying to optimize those strategies can appeal to that kind of player, even if it pushes out players who want to explore new stuff

            • HS_Orange
              Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
              @bmkibler @IksarHS This has been my own conclusion aswell. In practice groups im part of Stormwind has been praised as one of the best expansions which is the literal opposite of the sentiment i see online. Not saying there is a right or wrong. It is just interesting how different it can be

              • bmkibler
                Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                @HS_Orange @IksarHS One of the differences IMO is that competitive players will always have best decks to try to optimize, because that's how they interface with the game. Players who appreciate exploration and more varied gameplay can...play other games?

                • HS_Orange
                  Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                  @bmkibler @IksarHS Decks like Garrote Rogue, Mage and Handlock put some heavy restrictions on what a deck needs to accomplish to be succesful. Thats the case with any top deck in any meta, but it seems to be a lot more extreme with the Quests. Especially when comparing to previous meta we had

                  • BitBeaker
                    Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                    @HS_Orange @bmkibler @IksarHS I think one of the reasons the new Quests are looked down on by players who aren't "pro top level" is that they make it very difficult to play "homebrew" strategies and do well with them. Many content creators have expressed this sentiment.

                    • Iksar
                      Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                      @BitBeaker @HS_Orange @bmkibler I think that you’ll find the average enjoyer of quests are casual players who are interested in doing a fun and powerful thing.

                  • J_Alexander_HS
                    Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                    @HS_Orange @bmkibler @IksarHS I’m not sure quests are any more heavily restrictive than DrBooms or Cubelocks or Galakronds or Tunnel Troggs or anything. They could be, but I don’t know that there’s any clear evidence of this anywhere I’ve seen

                    • HS_Orange
                      Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                      @J_Alexander_HS @bmkibler @IksarHS I dont know either so this is all speculation. But going by the very trustworthy and reliable source that are my feelings, it feels like the Quests are a bit more offensive because of the pressure they put on winning the game. Which imo is a good thing but well...

                      • J_Alexander_HS
                        Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                        @HS_Orange @bmkibler @IksarHS I think there’s definitely something to be said for having to watch your opponents consistent progress towards a powerful win condition that can draw a negative experience and highlight your own lack of power if you’re bricking or playing jank

                        • Iksar
                          Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                          @J_Alexander_HS @HS_Orange @bmkibler I think this is one of the biggest downsides, the visual of watching your opponent progress at a pace you don’t think you’ll be able to match.

                          • Iksar
                            Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                            @J_Alexander_HS @HS_Orange @bmkibler Sentiment of ‘I can’t play my janky deck and win!’ is true in every meta. The desire of wanting to play a sub optimal and unique deck with optimal or close to optimal win rates is pretty hard to achieve without bots.

                            • mroranjewortel
                              Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                              @IksarHS @J_Alexander_HS @HS_Orange @bmkibler These are not binary metrics, and looking at them as if they are wastes valuable information. Quests make this situation worse, while it would clearly be good for homebrew decks to be relatively more playable. The question is if the tradeoff is worth it.

                              • Iksar
                                Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                @mroranjewortel @J_Alexander_HS @HS_Orange @bmkibler Wat

                                • Iksar
                                  Posted 3 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                  @mroranjewortel @J_Alexander_HS @HS_Orange @bmkibler It’s a complicated question to answer. What defines a home brew deck? Decks with less than X% play rate? X is something like 1%? Is the hypothesis that decks with very low play rates have a lower win% than the average expansion because of quests? Would be curious if that is true.
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