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One huge flaw right now in arena is the presence of Colossal minions. Death knight's and hero cards are excluded from the drafting pools and Colossals arguably have just as large an impact as these cards.

One huge flaw right now in arena is the presence of Colossal minions. Death knight's and hero cards are excluded from the drafting pools and Colossals arguably have just as large an impact as these cards.

ZeddyHS

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

One huge flaw right now in arena is the presence of Colossal minions. Death knight's and hero cards are excluded from the drafting pools and Colossals arguably have just as large an impact as these cards.

kolstIRL

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@ZeddyHS Colossals aren't just in, they have a giant offering bonus on them. Like 3x. This was by their choice.

ZeddyHS

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@kolstIRL That is just absurd, so they want a high chaos high variance format. I guess to keep winrates down? Guess I'm done with the mode, sucks was my favorite for so long.

kolstIRL

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@ZeddyHS Their idea must be that 10% of the time a new/bad player gets a colossal, gets carried by it to higher wins than they ever would without it, and then wants to play more than if they just always got crushed by better players.

Iksar

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@kolstIRL @ZeddyHS We tend to remove extreme power outliers, but the thought to leaving them in is less complicated than you think. In a draft format, it can be fun to see and draft high-power cards. Eliminating all high-power exciting cards can make drafting and playing decks less fun.

DreadsGaming

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@IksarHS @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS I think the bigger issue is the ease of discovering these cards. Lucking out and drafting one is fun, wining or losing on the spot to a roll of the dice from amalgam is less fun. I love discover, but it feels like it might need an adjustment for the long-term health of arena.

Iksar

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS Over time I think I've grown to agree with this take. Discover is a great constructed mechanic but I like it a lot less in Arena. Both because it causes cards that should be rare to show up all the time and makes drafting those cards less of an exciting moment.

Iksar

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS What I don't agree with is deck power variance being a bad thing. Part of the allure of a draft format is sometimes you'll draft a dream deck and have a much higher than normal chance to do well.

Iksar

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS If your core goal is to maximize win rate vs lesser skilled opponents, deck variance is worse. As designers of the format, we aren't always aligned with those goals. The kinds of cards I think are worth banning are Vicious Fledgling type cards.

Iksar

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS In a minion combat focused format, early game cards that snowball games into victories can be harmful. It's not even particularly exciting to draft a Vicious Fledgling.
DreadsGaming

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@IksarHS @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS I understand this take, but I think having wins/losses feel meaningful is important for players of all skill-levels (I concede that it is likely valued a bit more by high-skill players)

Iksar

Posted 3 years, 8 months ago (Source)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS Agree with the philosophy, though I feel like this often devolves into: my opponent played a very powerful card I could not answer, therefore this game was not meaningful, it was unfair

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One huge flaw right now in arena is the presence of Colossal minions. Death knight's and hero cards are excluded from the drafting pools and Colossals arguably have just as large an impact as these cards. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536171663145914368">None</a>)
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@ZeddyHS Colossals aren't just in, they have a giant offering bonus on them. Like 3x. This was by their choice. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536181429268271105">None</a>)
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@kolstIRL That is just absurd, so they want a high chaos high variance format. I guess to keep winrates down? Guess I'm done with the mode, sucks was my favorite for so long. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536181686223851520">None</a>)
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@ZeddyHS Their idea must be that 10% of the time a new/bad player gets a colossal, gets carried by it to higher wins than they ever would without it, and then wants to play more than if they just always got crushed by better players. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536182269840334850">None</a>)
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@kolstIRL @ZeddyHS We tend to remove extreme power outliers, but the thought to leaving them in is less complicated than you think.

In a draft format, it can be fun to see and draft high-power cards. Eliminating all high-power exciting cards can make drafting and playing decks less fun. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536413260521476096">Iksar</a>)
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@IksarHS @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS I think the bigger issue is the ease of discovering these cards. Lucking out and drafting one is fun, wining or losing on the spot to a roll of the dice from amalgam is less fun.

I love discover, but it feels like it might need an adjustment for the long-term health of arena. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536415286810669056">None</a>)
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@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS Over time I think I've grown to agree with this take. Discover is a great constructed mechanic but I like it a lot less in Arena. Both because it causes cards that should be rare to show up all the time and makes drafting those cards less of an exciting moment. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536418169379639296">Iksar</a>)
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<blockquote class="quoted">
 
</blockquote>
@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS What I don't agree with is deck power variance being a bad thing. Part of the allure of a draft format is sometimes you'll draft a dream deck and have a much higher than normal chance to do well. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536418763444129792">Iksar</a>)
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<blockquote class="quoted">
 
</blockquote>
@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS If your core goal is to maximize win rate vs lesser skilled opponents, deck variance is worse. As designers of the format, we aren't always aligned with those goals. The kinds of cards I think are worth banning are Vicious Fledgling type cards. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536419526618689536">Iksar</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
 
</blockquote>
@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS In a minion combat focused format, early game cards that snowball games into victories can be harmful. It's not even particularly exciting to draft a Vicious Fledgling. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536419883377827841">Iksar</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
 
</blockquote>
@IksarHS @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS I understand this take, but I think having wins/losses feel meaningful is important for players of all skill-levels (I concede that it is likely valued a bit more by high-skill players) (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536420471620521984">None</a>)
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<blockquote class="quoted">
 
</blockquote>
@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS Agree with the philosophy, though I feel like this often devolves into:

my opponent played a very powerful card I could not answer, therefore this game was not meaningful, it was unfair (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536421113202241536">Iksar</a>)
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Tweet

One huge flaw right now in arena is the presence of Colossal minions. Death knight's and hero cards are excluded from the drafting pools and Colossals arguably have just as large an impact as these cards.

@ZeddyHS Colossals aren't just in, they have a giant offering bonus on them. Like 3x. This was by their choice.

@kolstIRL That is just absurd, so they want a high chaos high variance format. I guess to keep winrates down? Guess I'm done with the mode, sucks was my favorite for so long.

@ZeddyHS Their idea must be that 10% of the time a new/bad player gets a colossal, gets carried by it to higher wins than they ever would without it, and then wants to play more than if they just always got crushed by better players.

@kolstIRL @ZeddyHS We tend to remove extreme power outliers, but the thought to leaving them in is less complicated than you think.

In a draft format, it can be fun to see and draft high-power cards. Eliminating all high-power exciting cards can make drafting and playing decks less fun. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536413260521476096">Source</a>)

@IksarHS @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS I think the bigger issue is the ease of discovering these cards. Lucking out and drafting one is fun, wining or losing on the spot to a roll of the dice from amalgam is less fun.

I love discover, but it feels like it might need an adjustment for the long-term health of arena.

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS Over time I think I've grown to agree with this take. Discover is a great constructed mechanic but I like it a lot less in Arena. Both because it causes cards that should be rare to show up all the time and makes drafting those cards less of an exciting moment. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536418169379639296">Source</a>)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS What I don't agree with is deck power variance being a bad thing. Part of the allure of a draft format is sometimes you'll draft a dream deck and have a much higher than normal chance to do well. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536418763444129792">Source</a>)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS If your core goal is to maximize win rate vs lesser skilled opponents, deck variance is worse. As designers of the format, we aren't always aligned with those goals. The kinds of cards I think are worth banning are Vicious Fledgling type cards. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536419526618689536">Source</a>)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS In a minion combat focused format, early game cards that snowball games into victories can be harmful. It's not even particularly exciting to draft a Vicious Fledgling. (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536419883377827841">Source</a>)

@IksarHS @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS I understand this take, but I think having wins/losses feel meaningful is important for players of all skill-levels (I concede that it is likely valued a bit more by high-skill players)

@DreadsGaming @kolstIRL @ZeddyHS Agree with the philosophy, though I feel like this often devolves into:

my opponent played a very powerful card I could not answer, therefore this game was not meaningful, it was unfair (<a href="https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536421113202241536">Source</a>)
 
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