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Bluetracker

Tracks Blizzard employees across various accounts.

Maybe Tesla should make a highly configurable Robovan for people & cargo?

Maybe Tesla should make a highly configurable Robovan for people & cargo?

  • elonmusk
    Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
    Maybe Tesla should make a highly configurable Robovan for people & cargo?

    • DevSpacePrez
      Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
      @elonmusk Maybe Tesla should stop putting people in danger to do a public beta of a self-driving system that clearly isn't remotely ready yet.

      • Chadd Nervigg
        Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
        @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk Source? While perfection is the goal, anything better than human drivers seems like an upgrade, no?

        • DevSpacePrez
          Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
          @Celestalon @elonmusk Eventually it will be an upgrade, but Tesla forcing citizens to put themselves into harms way to save money on testing is the definition of unethical. Everybody admits that you need level 5 autonomy for self-driving, and no cars are there yet. And yet....

          • DevSpacePrez
            Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
            @Celestalon @elonmusk They get around this with a loophole that says "the driver is still responsible, you have to keep your hands on the wheel" but they KNOW for a fact that nobody does this. Companies even sell devices to put on the wheel so the computer doesn't realize you took your hands off.

            • DevSpacePrez
              Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
              @Celestalon @elonmusk All over Tiktok are videos of people in Teslas who are playing videogames or ... doing other things in their cars, absolutely not with their hands on the wheel and unable to take over if necessary. This is extremely dangerous. And of course people do, when the marketing is...

              • DevSpacePrez
                Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                @Celestalon @elonmusk "Buy our new self driving car!" That's how its pitched, that's how every joe schmoe treats it. But it isn't that, Tesla knows it isn't that, and trying to have it both ways is downright criminal.

                • DevSpacePrez
                  Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                  @Celestalon @elonmusk These things are happening every day, on live public streets, involving people who did not consent to be put in danger by Tesla. People have already died. https://t.co/zTICdJXuZO

                  • DevSpacePrez
                    Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                    @Celestalon @elonmusk Tesla is a wealthy company and if they want to be on the cutting edge of self-driving cars, they should fork out the cash to do testing on closed, private roads. But they'd rather have us do it for them, lives be damned.

                    • Chadd Nervigg
                      Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                      @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk Who says they don't? The real world is infinitely more complex and varied than created tests in isolated environments can be, so it seems obvious that some amount of external testing is required, wouldn't you agree? So the only argument then is that they don't do *enough*?

                      • Chadd Nervigg
                        Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                        @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk Also does "lives be damned" mean that you think the net result of it being tested publicly is lives lost? I have seen no evidence of that, and in fact only evidence of quite the opposite (lives saved) by a very very large margin. Do you have other information?

                        • DevSpacePrez
                          Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                          @Celestalon @elonmusk https://t.co/5BmgbEUPlU

                          • DevSpacePrez
                            Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                            @Celestalon @elonmusk https://t.co/87Eft9L4iv

                            • DevSpacePrez
                              Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                              @Celestalon @elonmusk https://t.co/NsWWUKMVe6

                              • DevSpacePrez
                                Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                @Celestalon @elonmusk Just google, there's so many cases https://t.co/kqJHnfBYm9

                                • Chadd Nervigg
                                  Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                  @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk Sorry, I think there's some confusion here. I'm not asking if you have sources of evidence of its imperfection. All of these links you're showing are strongly agreeing with what I said.

                                  • Chadd Nervigg
                                    Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                    @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk What I understand: - Autopilot is not currently perfect. - Human drivers are not currently perfect. - Autopilot is currently significantly safer than Human drivers. - More experimental Autopilot versions are tested by Tesla drivers who opt in, and are in the highest safety tier.

                                    • DevSpacePrez
                                      Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                      @Celestalon @elonmusk >- Autopilot is currently significantly safer than Human drivers. If this was true why would they make you sign a waiver that says you'll keep your hands on the wheel?

                                      • Chadd Nervigg
                                        Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                        @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk Liability.

                                    • Chadd Nervigg
                                      Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                      @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk - As a result of the above, vehicle-involved fatalities/injuries are lower than they would be without Autopilot on the road. If you have evidence that contradicts any of the above, I'd really love to hear it.

                                      • DevSpacePrez
                                        Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                        @Celestalon @elonmusk I think the onus is on you to prove that claim first. And public transport has far fewer fatalities by faaaar, and car companies lobby against it for profit at the cost of lives.

                                        • Chadd Nervigg
                                          Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                                          @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk https://t.co/V60AbISHLW. Even with questions about autopilot disabling just before a crash, that would just be moving the crashes between Tesla's categories, which are *all* significantly higher. (And yes, I 100% agree about public mass transit being even better at safety.)

                      • DevSpacePrez
                        Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                        @Celestalon @elonmusk >The real world is infinitely more complex and varied than created tests in isolated environments can be Not true, there's nothing that can exist in real life that can't exist on a closed track. Its just more expensive. Its not obvious, no. I disagree with that assertion.

                        • Chadd Nervigg
                          Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                          @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk Huh. Would you say the same thing about computer software testing?

                  • Chadd Nervigg
                    Posted 3 years, 6 months ago (Source)
                    @DevSpacePrez @elonmusk Sorry, what is your claim? Of course some people behave poorly. Of course it can make mistakes. Is your claim that it should not be made public until it's 100% perfect?
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