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I have been reading a lot of opinions on the meta. I’m still somewhat forming my own opinion on details. What I am convinced of is: 1. Powercreep has gone too far 2. Minion combat feels like a thing of past 3. Powerful cards getting played for 0 mana is toxic

I have been reading a lot of opinions on the meta. I’m still somewhat forming my own opinion on details. What I am convinced of is: 1. Powercreep has gone too far 2. Minion combat feels like a thing of past 3. Powerful cards getting played for 0 mana is toxic

  • Savjz
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
    I have been reading a lot of opinions on the meta. I’m still somewhat forming my own opinion on details. What I am convinced of is: 1. Powercreep has gone too far 2. Minion combat feels like a thing of past 3. Powerful cards getting played for 0 mana is toxic

    • PascoaHS
      Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
      @Savjz About 2: the decks that have more board focused gameplay (and consequently minion combat) are usually underplayed even when they're very strong, like Naga Priest or Beast Hunter Is this really the type of deck we want to play as a player base? I don't personally

      • RidiculousHat
        Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
        @PascoaHS @Savjz fwiw these decks were all super strong in nathria

        • Savjz
          Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
          @RidiculousHat @PascoaHS Yep. Natria was a lot of board combat. I think the engagement with than expansion was highest in years. It was one of the most popular sets

          • RidiculousHat
            Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
            @Savjz @PascoaHS are you seeing this in your viewer/video numbers? i haven't seen any stats myself but haven't exactly gone looking. would be curious to see if there's any objective measure available to the public on popularity

            • RegisKillbin
              Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
              @RidiculousHat @Savjz @PascoaHS Really hard to get clean variables here, but I think it would be fair to say this set is underperforming on YouTube by a considerable margin for gameplay videos, especially considering the launch of a new class.

              • bmkibler
                Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                @RegisKillbin @RidiculousHat @Savjz @PascoaHS Yeah, I've seen the same thing, though Hearthstone interest broadly on YouTube and Twitch has gone down a *lot* in the past two years - it's hardly a new phenomenon for this set.

                • RidiculousHat
                  Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                  @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS i'm really curious what the prompting event was or if there even was one single event to point to

                  • bmkibler
                    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                    @RidiculousHat @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS There are two major variables that coincide with the dropoff that I can see - HSEsports moving to YouTube and the launch of Battlegrounds. I think the combination of BGs offering a more F2P friendly game *inside the same client* and major events going away hurt a lot.

                    • NickSilvaChemE
                      Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                      @bmkibler @RidiculousHat @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS It also coincides with when Ben Brode left when the development cycle lag is taken into account, and an increase in the size of the development team. We saw a similar power push in MTG when they made the play design team.

                      • RidiculousHat
                        Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                        @NickSilvaChemE @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS man people really love to correlate brode and things happening. he's a very talented guy but just one of many people on the game and power outliers still existed while he was there - just in a diff way old games need novelty. it wasn't an old game five years ago

                        • NickSilvaChemE
                          Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                          @RidiculousHat @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS The director of the game is a pretty important position, both in terms of design/development/nerf philosophy, hiring, and dealing with corporate. Seems entirely plausible that the game director changing would have far-reaching effects.

                          • RidiculousHat
                            Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                            @NickSilvaChemE @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS i understand the role but dean pretty explicitly said that he wasn't as involved with card design as gd either way i've seen a lot of trends projected onto brode's tenure at hearthstone and his role at second dinner. guy is super visible but not an island of decision making

                            • NickSilvaChemE
                              Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                              @RidiculousHat @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS Right but I'm not even sure it is the way the cards are designed that is the problem, but rather a change in philosophy where they release the powerful version of the card and are perfectly fine with walking it back later. That kind of shift tends to come from the top.

                              • RidiculousHat
                                Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                                @NickSilvaChemE @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS yep, dean said their player research changed and the game had to be designed differently as it matured we asked him about it in this cc https://t.co/OTcA6xjbCc and he posted about it here https://t.co/iNpAKT2pcr https://t.co/g55mL2Ab46

                                • RidiculousHat
                                  Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                                  @NickSilvaChemE @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS hi @IksarHS luv u

                                  • Iksar
                                    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                                    @RidiculousHat @NickSilvaChemE @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS hi hat

              • RidiculousHat
                Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                @RegisKillbin @Savjz @PascoaHS that's good info to have, thank you for the perspective

                • RegisKillbin
                  Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                  @RidiculousHat @Savjz @PascoaHS I tend to look at Kibler videos as a great measure, because he's been incredibly consistent in format and style and being awesome. He removes as many confounding variables as possible. He, like the rest of us, appears to be down a bit this expansion.

                  • Chadd Nervigg
                    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                    @RegisKillbin @RidiculousHat @Savjz @PascoaHS I understand that it may be latched onto because "it's all we've got", but do try to remember that youtube/twitch viewership are only loosely correlated with game health/engagement. They diverge quite a lot over time.

                    • bmkibler
                      Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                      @Celestalon @RegisKillbin @RidiculousHat @Savjz @PascoaHS Well, it may not be a direct correlation to game engagement, but it's an equally if not more important metric for people who make a living based on those things.

                      • Chadd Nervigg
                        Posted 2 years, 11 months ago (Source)
                        @bmkibler @RegisKillbin @RidiculousHat @Savjz @PascoaHS No doubt. Just wanted to make the reminder since many (in this thread), were assuming they were the same situation.
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