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Bluetracker

Tracks Blizzard employees across various accounts.

I have 0 motivation to play BGs today đŸ„ș I don’t like this feeling

I have 0 motivation to play BGs today đŸ„ș I don’t like this feeling

  • Slysssa
    Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
    I have 0 motivation to play BGs today đŸ„ș I don’t like this feeling

    • Iksar
      Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
      @Slysssa so you just gonna harass @Songbird_HS like that and then not even play I see how it is

      • Cora
        Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
        @IksarHS @Slysssa YEAH

        • Slysssa
          Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
          @Songbird_HS @IksarHS What’s the point if I have to get two 1st places to make up for one 8th 😱 lots of psychological annoyance by that Plus I’m annoyed at a few other things right now... you don’t want me streaming I’m in rant/cry mode right now Ily Cora đŸ„ș

          • Cora
            Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
            @Slysssa @IksarHS Dean fix it plz Slysssa is sad and it's making me sad 😭

            • Iksar
              Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
              @Songbird_HS @Slysssa The real answer is that you are great and matchmaking players with extreme MMR is not realistic. Given that, the two options are make you lose more for losing or allow your MMR to inflate forever.

              • Iksar
                Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Forever inflating MMR feels good, but the core downside is that the top rated players become those who played a lot and less about being those that are actually the best.

                • Iksar
                  Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                  @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Stagnating doesn't feel good, but ultimately I think for the players at the highest level it's the right call for the competitive integrity of the leaderboard.

                  • EndoZoite
                    Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                    @IksarHS @Songbird_HS @Slysssa The other option is you can allow for longer queues for very high mmr players so they don't get paired down as much: gain/loss isn't as extreme when you are playing people closer to your skill/rating. This is a change that I and many other top players would appreciate.

                    • EndoZoite
                      Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                      @IksarHS @Songbird_HS @Slysssa (Sometimes you'll even see some of the very best players restart their queue if it goes too long so that the system won't give them a low mmr lobby because they've been in queue for too long: people want to avoid bad lobbies so much they manually work to prevent it.)

                      • Iksar
                        Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                        @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa I get the logic, though this shouldn't change much. Your expected rating gain/loss should be roughly the same in every game regardless of that games skill level.

                        • Iksar
                          Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                          @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Sometimes you'll get a game with higher skilled players and gain more rating for winning, but it's less likely you win. Sometimes you'll get a game with lower skilled players and gain less rating for winning, but it's more likely you win. Same outcome different path.

                          • EndoZoite
                            Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                            @IksarHS @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Yep exactly. What Slyssa is complaining about isn't that its hard to climb, of course it should be hard to climb when high ranked. She's complaining that the current matchmaking system rewards not losing to bad players more than beating good players.

                            • Iksar
                              Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                              @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Yeah, I get that. Hard problem to solve if 99.99% of the population is bad in comparison to you😅

                          • EndoZoite
                            Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                            @IksarHS @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Also I want to point out that this isn't quite the case because variance plays a critical role in the game: there is a limit to how far a skill edge can take you. A general rule of thumb is finishing first requires running above average regardless of opponent.

                            • EndoZoite
                              Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                              @IksarHS @Songbird_HS @Slysssa For this reason if you play online backgammon which uses the ELO system, a highly rated player will refuse to play with someone several hundred ELO below them: They are favored to win but their rating gain/loss ev against low rated player accounting for winrate is net negative

                              • Iksar
                                Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa There are many, many different types of rating distribution systems. Ideally your game uses a system that is unique to account for the player skill advantages/disadvantages as they relate to that particular game.

                                • Iksar
                                  Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                  @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa The goal with each matchmade game is to make the expected rating net gain/loss for each player be 0. Because the pool of players is not infinite the net for each player will never be exactly 0.

                                  • Iksar
                                    Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                    @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa The goal is to get as close as possible. All the things you mentioned are great examples of why ranked systems and matchmaking are extremely complicated, but they aren't examples of concepts that are foreign to us.

                                • EndoZoite
                                  Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                  @IksarHS @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Yep this is a great point, ideally a rating system could accurately distribute points based on actual skill thresholds and limits on the impact on variance. This seems incredibly difficult to quantify though and I think there is some inevitable inperfection in any given system.

                                  • Iksar
                                    Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                    @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa Given enough data, you could theoretically have a formula that is improving itself on the fly as it gathers information about exactly how advantaged a player at X MMR is over a player with Y MMR. I don't know of anyone that actually does this, though :)

                        • EndoZoite
                          Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                          @IksarHS @Songbird_HS @Slysssa This is false, when lobbies are stacked enough sometimes I even gain rating for 4th, much less 3.5 (when 4th is normally ~-25). Who is in the lobby is clearly impacting my mmr gain/loss.

                          • Iksar
                            Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                            @EndoZoite @Songbird_HS @Slysssa I think my first reply was misleading, read second :)

              • Slysssa
                Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                @IksarHS @Songbird_HS I get this, but it feels like the queue is broken if I’m queuing into people with 1/2 my MmR. Someone at 6.5k shouldn’t be queued into a 13k player

                • Iksar
                  Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                  @Slysssa @Songbird_HS Hard to tell on the surface if it's a problem. A players visible rating isn't always very representative of how your rating will be adjusted. For example, I'm extremely low-rated right now because I just haven't played much BG since reset.

                  • Iksar
                    Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                    @Slysssa @Songbird_HS If I was rated 4k just because I hadn't played enough games yet and we played together, your rating wouldn't be adjusted by my 4k, it would get adjusted by my real MMR that is invisible to both of us.

                    • Iksar
                      Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                      @Slysssa @Songbird_HS Doesn't mean it's impossible that we're just making poor matches, I can check it out 👍

                      • F2K_Victor
                        Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                        @IksarHS @Slysssa @Songbird_HS Good conversation here. How about create a protection floor for high-rated player so that 3.5 placement in a game will not cause losing mmr. ( losing when tie 3/4 is very de-motivating for most high mmr player I know including myself )

                        • Iksar
                          Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                          @F2K_Victor @Slysssa @Songbird_HS I understand the sentiment, but the point remains. Forcing you to not lose MMR when you otherwise would will result in MMR inflation, which then leads to players playing more being higher rated.

                          • Iksar
                            Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                            @F2K_Victor @Slysssa @Songbird_HS A version of what you suggest is actually already implemented. We have minimum gains for good placement in place so you don't end up in situations where you win +1 MMR for winning a game (even though sometimes that would be 'fair').

                            • Iksar
                              Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                              @F2K_Victor @Slysssa @Songbird_HS As a result of this, we already have MMR inflation. It is minimal enough that most players don't notice and the best players are still at the top of the leaderboard, but it does exist.

                              • dogdog
                                Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                @IksarHS @F2K_Victor @Slysssa @Songbird_HS I’m just curious on the mmr system, when resetting between season is it even a soft reset? Or just a visual one?

                                • dogdog
                                  Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                  @IksarHS @F2K_Victor @Slysssa @Songbird_HS I would like to see a soft reset (everyone 12k+ get put at like 10k etc scaling down) but last season it felt like just a visual reset to fight camping of mmr. Anyways sorry if this is answered elsewhere I just don’t know either way

                                  • Iksar
                                    Posted 4 years, 10 months ago (Source)
                                    @dogdog @F2K_Victor @Slysssa @Songbird_HS Plan is to hard reset background MMR to 10k (or 8k? don't remember right now) at start of 20.2. Thinking of doing a hard reset to 8/10k for top players every patch (monthly). Might be too fast.
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