Bluetracker

Tracks Blizzard employees across various accounts.

Enemy XP Globes should NOT be visible

I'm willing to give the XP globe idea a try as it brings a change to the soaking game BUT:

Please consider hiding the enemy XP Globes.

Seeing the glove and specifically the movement of the orb towards a bush or a stealth character just serves to remove a great strategic practice. Out of visions soaking!

PLS make the orbs invisible to enemy, prettty please :D

Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

So, you punish again good players for using their brain by :

- passively soaking not showing on map

- freezing lanes to deny XP to mid-brawlers

When will you understand that your game was fine before XP patch and the problem is the players who don't want to learn how to play ?

The XP patch repelled good players !

They found those changes boring, they felt punished for taking advantage (destroying a fort) and keeping it ensure victory ! You remove that, why ? Not because the XP gave too much power but because enemies continue brawling without enough XP THEY refuse to soak to comeback in time.

Temporising lack of talent, conceding objective, playing safe in order to comeback at equal level. We saw that in HGC.

The XP patch only did one thing and surely not the best. It turns every modes of your game like the brawl mode. I can't play your Brawl anymore because all my games (HL, TL, SL, Unranked and QM) are brawls !

Don't try to fix your game for players who don't care about the mechanics. The problem is not there, you can't fix something that won't be to (players).

HGC shows us ALL the potential of this game, Macro plays from different teams was a pleasure. They teach us how to play YOUR game, how we can do to improve ourselves, how TEAMPLAY is f.....g great in this game with strategy and coordination.

If you have to show globes to gather for players to understand XP mechanics, what will you do to make them understand how to time mercs ? How to depush without Lava Wave ? How to concede an objective 9vs10, how to avoid a fight 1vs3 ? They don't care, they want to win by brawling !

Actually i'm reported for :

- depushing a boss on Hanamura instead of fighting for the payload 9vs10 !

- soaking a lvl 7 to give advantage to my team on Alterac Pass after showing i've got my flight with Falstad

- double soaking on Infernal Shrines because we have 2 deads and enemy is still 5 on the Shrine

- i was even reported for "being AFK" because i was freezing lane, soaking passively in a bush not playing Abathur!

It's sad to say but your mechanics on XP changes are an insult to Macro players. You just conforted bad players on their behavior of not learning how to play and now you continue with those "Anomalies".

I appreciate your passion Eldricht_Elder.

We've always felt that experience gain could be more interesting and visible to players since the beginning of the game, and only recently began to make changes to try and improve it. We aren't exactly trying to fix a problem, but rather add ways to make everyone appreciate the significance of something that already exists in the game.

In fact, our goal is to create more macro players by making soaking more fun and interactive.

I'd really love for you to try this Nexus Anomaly next season and then see how it feels! It's felt great for us in our playtesting (and this has actually been something we've been feeling out for about 6 months).
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

So if you simply walk away from the exp globe after being close enough to suck it towards you, you will still collect it, right?

Yep, Globes move faster than players.
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

Hey, thanks for the concern, we had similar ones!

Experience Globes will not move towards Heroes hidden in bushes or stealthed, though they can still be picked up if they stand right on top of them. We thought this was a good compromise.
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

Experience Globes will not move towards Heroes hidden in bushes or stealthed

Do you mean that only the graphical effect will be hidden or that the soaking won't work at all in that scenario?

There are two states to an Experience Globe:

If you are nearby (about ranged Basic Attack range) they will slowly move towards you. This will not happen if you are hidden in a bush or stealthed.

If you are right next to them (the same range as a Regen Globe) you will pick them up. This will always happen.
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

How do experience globes work for Samuro?

Enemies will be able to see who the real Samuro is VERY easily if globes are flying into him and not his clones.

If clones can pick them up then it's extremely overpowered cause he would be able to soak multiple lanes simultaneously.

I don't envy you trying to solve this issue, making enemy globes completely invisible seems like the only option.

Clones and things like Misha will count as a Hero for terms of soaking. It makes Nova a little better in laning, which we're okay with. It will make Samuro clones better too, which is something that we're keeping an eye on.

I don't think making enemy globes invisible would really solve the clone issues, but as for visibility of them we've been testing it extensively and we feel like the subtle visibility of it feels like a good compromise. We don't really want to encourage passive soaking of experience via sitting in a bush or Stealth, as one of our goals with the change is to encourage active gameplay around fighting over experience. Which is also why we want to make them visible to enemies so that if they choose to they can try to punish opponents trying to get them.
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

Have you guys considered how this change is going to impact the Lost Vikings? It's going to increase their already high skill floor by a significant margin.

Yeah, we're going to make some small number buffs to compensate somewhat for now, but if this Nexus Anomaly becomes a base part of the game it'll finally give us license to make the Lost Vikings be more effective than just soak bots.
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

can you or anyone tell me if you can "detach" with XP the globe once it started moving? like, via enemy or self displacement (like Zeratul's Blink)

Technically yes, if you move outside of the range you can. But realistically the only way to outpace them is with teleports.
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

the problem that I see with this is that it kinda defeats part of the hero fantasy. For example, it's very important for Valeera to be able to True Stealth (full invisibility) a lot, so it kinda sucks that she needs to move out of that state.

Then again, there aren't many moments in a match where she's on that state for soaking purposes.

Will have to get more data on this when it's released.

Definitely check it out!

We didn't want Valeera to completely lose that so she can step on top of Experience Globes to pick them up still, but if she's forced into soaking a lane it's a sacrifice that she'll have to make.
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

Passive soak is one of the strategies. Why do you want to simplify the game?

We don't think this is simpler, rather more engaging and fun!
Neyman

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

To confirm your answer, it appears that standing in a nearby bush will no longer soak XP unless the globe is melee-ish range. Is that correct?

So, for example, a body-soaking abathur will need to be in a visible spot in the lane in order to "range-soak-state" the xp? rather than in a bush?

Yes, or reveal themselves from the bush by using an ability. Once a character has revealed themselves, Globes will magnet to them again.

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>So, you punish again good players for using their brain by :</p>

<p>- passively soaking not showing on map</p>

<p>- freezing lanes to deny XP to mid-brawlers</p>

<p>When will you understand that your game was fine before XP patch and the problem is the players who don't want to learn how to play ?</p>

<p>The XP patch repelled good players ! </p>

<p>They found those changes boring, they felt punished for taking advantage (destroying a fort)  and keeping it ensure victory ! You remove that, why ? Not because the XP gave too much power but because enemies continue brawling without enough XP <strong>THEY refuse to soak</strong> to comeback in time.</p>

<p>Temporising lack of talent, conceding objective, playing safe in order to comeback at equal level. We saw that in HGC.</p>

<p>The XP patch only did one thing and surely not the best. It turns every modes of your game like the brawl mode. I can't play your Brawl anymore because all my games (HL, TL, SL, Unranked and QM) are brawls !</p>

<p>Don't try to fix your game for players who don't care about the mechanics. The problem is not there, you can't fix something that won't be to (players).</p>

<p>HGC shows us ALL the potential of this game, Macro plays from different teams was a pleasure. <strong>They</strong> teach us how to play YOUR game, how we can do to improve ourselves, how TEAMPLAY is f.....g great in this game with strategy and coordination.</p>

<p>If you have to show globes to gather for players to understand XP mechanics, what will you do to make them understand how to time mercs ? How to depush without Lava Wave ? How to concede an objective 9vs10, how to avoid a fight 1vs3 ? They don't care, they want to win by brawling !</p>

<p>Actually i'm reported for : </p>

<p>- depushing a boss on Hanamura instead of fighting for the payload 9vs10 !</p>

<p>- soaking a lvl 7 to give advantage to my team on Alterac Pass after showing i've got my flight with Falstad</p>

<p>- double soaking on Infernal Shrines because we have 2 deads and enemy is still 5 on the Shrine</p>

<p>- i was even reported for "being AFK" because i was freezing lane, soaking passively in a bush not playing Abathur!</p>

<p></p>

<p>It's sad to say but your mechanics on XP changes are an insult to Macro players. You just conforted bad players on their behavior of not learning how to play and now you continue with those "Anomalies".</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>I appreciate your passion Eldricht_Elder.</p>

<p>We've always felt that experience gain could be more interesting and visible to players since the beginning of the game, and only recently began to make changes to try and improve it.  We aren't exactly trying to fix a problem, but rather add ways to make everyone appreciate the significance of something that already exists in the game.</p>

<p>In fact, our goal is to create more macro players by making soaking more fun and interactive.</p>

<p>I'd really love for you to try this Nexus Anomaly next season and then see how it feels!  It's felt great for us in our playtesting (and this has actually been something we've been feeling out for about 6 months).</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6k0ixr">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>So if you simply walk away from the exp globe after being close enough to suck it towards you, you will still collect it, right?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Yep, Globes move faster than players.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6k0pa0">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Hey, thanks for the concern, we had similar ones!</p>

<p>Experience Globes will not move towards Heroes hidden in bushes or stealthed, though they can still be picked up if they stand right on top of them.  We thought this was a good compromise.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6j8fgt">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><blockquote>
<p>Experience Globes will not move towards Heroes hidden in bushes or stealthed</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Do you mean that only the graphical effect will be hidden or that the soaking won't work at all in that scenario?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>There are two states to an Experience Globe:</p>

<p>If you are nearby (about ranged Basic Attack range) they will slowly move towards you.  This will not happen if you are hidden in a bush or stealthed.</p>

<p>If you are right next to them (the same range as a Regen Globe) you will pick them up.  This will always happen.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jec95">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>How do experience globes work for Samuro?</p>

<p>Enemies will be able to see who the real Samuro is VERY easily if globes are flying into him and not his clones.</p>

<p>If clones can pick them up then it's extremely overpowered cause he would be able to soak multiple lanes simultaneously.</p>

<p>I don't envy you trying to solve this issue, making enemy globes completely invisible seems like the only option.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Clones and things like Misha will count as a Hero for terms of soaking.  It makes Nova a little better in laning, which we're okay with.  It will make Samuro clones better too, which is something that we're keeping an eye on.</p>

<p>I don't think making enemy globes invisible would really solve the clone issues, but as for visibility of them we've been testing it extensively and we feel like the subtle visibility of it feels like a good compromise.  We don't really want to encourage passive soaking of experience via sitting in a bush or Stealth, as one of our goals with the change is to encourage active gameplay around fighting over experience.  Which is also why we want to make them visible to enemies so that if they choose to they can try to punish opponents trying to get them.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jf7yq">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>Have you guys considered how this change is going to impact the Lost Vikings? It's going to increase their already high skill floor by a significant margin.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Yeah, we're going to make some small number buffs to compensate somewhat for now, but if this Nexus Anomaly becomes a base part of the game it'll finally give us license to make the Lost Vikings be more effective than just soak bots.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6kncfo">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>can you or anyone tell me if you can "detach" with XP the globe once it started moving? like, via enemy or self displacement (like Zeratul's Blink)</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Technically yes, if you move outside of the range you can.  But realistically the only way to outpace them is with teleports.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jk7sp">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>the problem that I see with this is that it kinda defeats part of the hero fantasy. For example, it's very important for Valeera to be able to True Stealth (full invisibility) a lot, so it kinda sucks that she needs to move out of that state.</p>

<p>Then again, there aren't many moments in a match where she's on that state for soaking purposes.</p>

<p>Will have to get more data on this when it's released.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Definitely check it out!</p>

<p>We didn't want Valeera to completely lose that so she can step on top of Experience Globes to pick them up still, but if she's forced into soaking a lane it's a sacrifice that she'll have to make.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jk4ny">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>Passive soak is one of the strategies.
Why do you want to simplify the game?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>We don't think this is simpler, rather more engaging and fun!</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jkfam">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>To confirm your answer, it appears that standing in a nearby bush will no longer soak XP unless the globe is melee-ish range.  Is that correct?  </p>

<p>So, for example, a body-soaking abathur will need to be in a visible spot in the lane in order to "range-soak-state" the xp?  rather than in a bush?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Yes, or reveal themselves from the bush by using an ability.  Once a character has revealed themselves, Globes will magnet to them again.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jkd1q">Neyman</a>)
<hr/>

<p><div class="md"><p>I appreciate your passion Eldricht_Elder.</p>

<p>In fact, our goal is to create more macro players by making soaking more fun and interactive.</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Yep, Globes move faster than players.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6k0pa0">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Hey, thanks for the concern, we had similar ones!</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>There are two states to an Experience Globe:</p>

<p>If you are nearby (about ranged Basic Attack range) they will slowly move towards you.  This will not happen if you are hidden in a bush or stealthed.</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Clones and things like Misha will count as a Hero for terms of soaking.  It makes Nova a little better in laning, which we're okay with.  It will make Samuro clones better too, which is something that we're keeping an eye on.</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Yeah, we're going to make some small number buffs to compensate somewhat for now, but if this Nexus Anomaly becomes a base part of the game it'll finally give us license to make the Lost Vikings be more effective than just soak bots.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6kncfo">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Technically yes, if you move outside of the range you can.  But realistically the only way to outpace them is with teleports.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jk7sp">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Definitely check it out!</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>We don't think this is simpler, rather more engaging and fun!</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jkfam">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Yes, or reveal themselves from the bush by using an ability.  Once a character has revealed themselves, Globes will magnet to them again.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/drl2vj/enemy_xp_globes_should_not_be_visible/f6jkd1q">Source</a>)</p>
    
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Enemy XP Globes should NOT be visible

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