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Infernal Shrines got balance changes after 5 weeks. We're now 6 weeks from 2.0 launch and Blizz has yet to acknowledge that Hanamura is fundamentally flawed

8/26/15 Infernal Shrines released: https://heroespatchnotes.com/battleground/infernalshrines.html#patch2015-08-26

5 weeks later...

10/6/15 Map adjustments: https://heroespatchnotes.com/battleground/infernalshrines.html#patch2015-10-06

Hanamura's balance has been a big topic since it's release and has been voted for as most hated map across several polls. Haven't been paying attention to MLG lately so not sure how the map is regarded in that standard but for majority of the player base the map doesn't seem to be enjoyable.

There has yet to be any blue post commenting about it's current state and whether there will be an update to the map or if they even consider the community's issues to be an actually design problem.

I'm hoping we will at least get some type of response or insight soon.

BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

I know that maps are supposed to be better and worse for some heroes, so wouldn't it be ok for a map to be favored towards heroes that have a better early game and don't have a "hit 20, become god" talent?

Excuse me for assuming, but i thought that's what Hanamura was intended to be. At least that's how i immediately started drafting for it.

There's definitely a desire that battlegrounds change up the hero meta. It's just a matter of degrees here.

It's ok if Hanamura runs faster than other maps and I expect that'll likely remain true after the changes. Just not quite to the degree it does currently.
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

Are you aware of AI bug on this map? they always suicide by entering the opening in the walls behind the keep, and try to leave following the minion path, they do this everytime they are chasing someone or just running away, if they are close the supp camp area you can be sure they will do this, Btw we are talking about Elite bots.

I believe that's been fixed internally already and should be going out shortly.
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

Hey Travis, I wanted to take my chances and ask you about Hanamura from a bit different prespective.

How important is it to you guys that matches don't finish on a particular game too soon in terms of late-game talent accessibility and the fun that comes from that (with games ending fast on Hanamura, you often don't get to play around with 16/20 talents)?

It's a problem both when games average too long and too short. We look at both. When games go too short, it not only cuts off access to the awesome top tier talents, which skews the meta a bit against heroes that come into their own in the late game, but it also skews the "play time" vs "downtime" equation.
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

serious question: Did you miss Dustin Browder? because i do miss him a lot :(, and i can guess that comunity do miss him too...

I love that man. Fortunately, I still see him frequently and he's there as a resource anytime I want to bounce design ideas around.
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

How much frustration does this sub cause the team?

Hah. I'm sure it varies a lot depending on who you ask. For me, almost none. I've been working in online games for almost 2 decades and learned to take a zen approach to community feedback a long time ago. It all comes from a place of passion (or trolling...which is easy to just ignore).
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

In my limited time in software I've learned that it's best not to announce information the moment it becomes available because things don't always go the way they seem. You might think you're going to work on something but you never know what's going to pop up, or maybe you find that another approach is best and changing the original problem becomes unnecessary.

For this reason, most developers keep information under wraps until they're certain what's going to happen, because giving misinformation to gamers is probably one of the most dangerous professional mistakes in game development.

Totally accurate, but we can be better about letting folks know that we've heard the feedback. I won't get into the details of what we're changing since they're undergoing testing right now and it's totally possible they'll look pretty different once they go live, but a quick "We heard ya and are working on some things!" goes a long way.
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

Bakery honestly hit the nail on the head with his suggestions I feel. Especially doubling the core health and shots fired from payloads baseline. That keeps the number of payloads required the same if you take no forts/keeps, but reduces the impact a significant amount when you do push down forts/keeps. This will make the games take a little longer as they won't snowball out of control for the team that just hard pushes a lane.

We played around with something similar internally as the concept is sound. It ended up being a bit more complicated than we liked, though, and simpler changes are achieving similar results.
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

Thank you for dropping this info now, but someone should have responded weeks ago. I understand giving the map a couple weeks to marinate a bit, but the issues with Hanamura became painfully obviously pretty quickly, and taking 6 weeks to acknowledge them is a bit too long IMO. Anyways keep up the good work! I look forward to seeing how you guys tweak it.

Quite right. My apologies. It's sadly easy to forget to tell the world about things in the day-to-day trenches. :(
BlizzTravis

Posted 7 years, 3 months ago (Source)

We're working on some tweaks to the map to address the issues we've seen since launch. They're undergoing internal testing right now.

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>I know that maps are supposed to be better and worse for some heroes, so wouldn't it be ok for a map to be favored towards heroes that have a better early game and don't have a "hit 20, become god" talent?</p>

<p>Excuse me for assuming, but i thought that's what Hanamura was intended to be. At least that's how i immediately started drafting for it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>There's definitely a desire that battlegrounds change up the hero meta. It's just a matter of degrees here.</p>

<p>It's ok if Hanamura runs faster than other maps and I expect that'll likely remain true after the changes. Just not quite to the degree it does currently.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dinh13n">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>Are you aware of AI bug on this map? they always suicide by entering the opening in the walls behind the keep, and try to leave following the minion path, they do this everytime they are chasing someone or just running away, if they are close the supp camp area you can be sure they will do this, Btw we are talking about Elite bots.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>I believe that's been fixed internally already and should be going out shortly.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dinaooh">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>Hey Travis, I wanted to take my chances and ask you about Hanamura from a bit different prespective.</p>

<p>How important is it to you guys that matches don't finish on a particular game too soon in terms of late-game talent accessibility and the fun that comes from that (with games ending fast on Hanamura, you often don't get to play around with 16/20 talents)?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>It's a problem both when games average too long and too short. We look at both. When games go too short, it not only cuts off access to the awesome top tier talents, which skews the meta a bit against heroes that come into their own in the late game, but it also skews the "play time" vs "downtime" equation. </p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/din6loq">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>serious question: Did you miss Dustin Browder? because i do miss him a lot :(, and i can guess that comunity do miss him too...</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>I love that man. Fortunately, I still see him frequently and he's there as a resource anytime I want to bounce design ideas around.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimzp87">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>How much frustration does this sub cause the team?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Hah. I'm sure it varies a lot depending on who you ask. For me, almost none. I've been working in online games for almost 2 decades and learned to take a zen approach to community feedback a long time ago. It all comes from a place of passion (or trolling...which is easy to just ignore).</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimza71">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>In my limited time in software I've learned that it's best not to announce information the moment it becomes available because things don't always go the way they seem. You might think you're going to work on something but you never know what's going to pop up, or maybe you find that another approach is best and changing the original problem becomes unnecessary. </p>

<p>For this reason, most developers keep information under wraps until they're certain what's going to happen, because giving misinformation to gamers is probably one of the most dangerous professional mistakes in game development.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Totally accurate, but we can be better about letting folks know that we've heard the feedback. I won't get into the details of what we're changing since they're undergoing testing right now and it's totally possible they'll look pretty different once they go live, but a quick "We heard ya and are working on some things!" goes a long way.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimy2af">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>Bakery honestly hit the nail on the head with his suggestions I feel. Especially doubling the core health and shots fired from payloads baseline. That keeps the number of payloads required the same if you take no forts/keeps, but reduces the impact a significant amount when you do push down forts/keeps. This will make the games take a little longer as they won't snowball out of control for the team that just hard pushes a lane.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>We played around with something similar internally as the concept is sound. It ended up being a bit more complicated than we liked, though, and simpler changes are achieving similar results.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimx24p">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>Thank you for dropping this info now, but someone should have responded weeks ago. I understand giving the map a couple weeks to marinate a bit, but the issues with Hanamura became painfully obviously pretty quickly, and taking 6 weeks to acknowledge them is a bit too long IMO. Anyways keep up the good work! I look forward to seeing how you guys tweak it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Quite right. My apologies. It's sadly easy to forget to tell the world about things in the day-to-day trenches. :(</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimw8ol">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>We're working on some tweaks to the map to address the issues we've seen since launch. They're undergoing internal testing right now.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimvh1s">BlizzTravis</a>)
<hr/>

<p><div class="md"><p>There's definitely a desire that battlegrounds change up the hero meta. It's just a matter of degrees here.</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>I believe that's been fixed internally already and should be going out shortly.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dinaooh">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>It's a problem both when games average too long and too short. We look at both. When games go too short, it not only cuts off access to the awesome top tier talents, which skews the meta a bit against heroes that come into their own in the late game, but it also skews the "play time" vs "downtime" equation. </p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/din6loq">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>I love that man. Fortunately, I still see him frequently and he's there as a resource anytime I want to bounce design ideas around.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimzp87">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Hah. I'm sure it varies a lot depending on who you ask. For me, almost none. I've been working in online games for almost 2 decades and learned to take a zen approach to community feedback a long time ago. It all comes from a place of passion (or trolling...which is easy to just ignore).</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimza71">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Totally accurate, but we can be better about letting folks know that we've heard the feedback. I won't get into the details of what we're changing since they're undergoing testing right now and it's totally possible they'll look pretty different once they go live, but a quick "We heard ya and are working on some things!" goes a long way.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimy2af">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>We played around with something similar internally as the concept is sound. It ended up being a bit more complicated than we liked, though, and simpler changes are achieving similar results.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimx24p">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Quite right. My apologies. It's sadly easy to forget to tell the world about things in the day-to-day trenches. :(</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimw8ol">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>We're working on some tweaks to the map to address the issues we've seen since launch. They're undergoing internal testing right now.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6g0wgo/infernal_shrines_got_balance_changes_after_5/dimvh1s">Source</a>)</p>
    
    <hr/>

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Infernal Shrines got balance changes after 5 weeks. We're now 6 weeks from 2.0 launch and Blizz has yet to acknowledge that Hanamura is fundamentally flawed

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