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Hello r/heroesofthestorm! We’ve brought in a few developers to answer your questions regarding Balance.

Patch Notes – July 12th, 2016

We’ve brought in a few of the experts working on balancing Heroes of the Storm to tackle your thoughts about the latest changes to be introduced to Heroes of the Storm. Feel free to ask questions about the recent changes to the game, your favorite heroes, talent diversity, or anything else you’d like to know!

For today’s Q&A, we’ll have the following developers in attendance:

Please feel free to start posting your questions below! We’ll be starting at 12:01 PM PDT (3 hours from this posting).

As a reminder: There will be questions posted by CMs from non-English speaking regions. If you'd like to see these questions answered, feel free to upvote them for more visibility.

Edit 1 - 11:40 am PDT: We're starting in roughly 20 minutes. Keep an eye out for answers to start trickling in.

Edit 2 - 2:00 pm PDT: Thanks for partaking in the Q&A, we're gonna send the balance guys back to the Pit (Hopefully they give Artanis three blinks, just like Tracer). Have an awesome day!


  • Neyman

    Posted 8 years, 2 months ago (Source)

    Howdy HotSBalance team!
    Big fan of the game and I've been playing for a while,

    1. What types of professional work do you recommend for getting the type of experience you view is valuable to join the dev team? Are other types of non-moba design transferable in your opinions?


    2. When you design a talent or gameplay element really well, it highlights a key choice the player needs to make (Survivability or wave clear, burst or poke, global presence or heals, etc). Most of the time, base abilities feel 'underwhelming by design' which gives them good room to grow with talents. For example - Tassadar's shift feels really underwhelming most of the time, but it feels meaningful with talents. Sometimes, that healthy design is good enough to be added to the base ability. We've seen you add range to Kerrigan's E, give Kael's Living Bomb baseline spreading, Nazeebo's Level 1 Ritual (a discussed future candidate), Tassadar's Khala's Embrace (a requested candidate) etc. How do you pick the right moments to add talent to baseline abilities?


    3. Is there a shared sentiment of an easy way to make characters good is to improve their wave clear? The tank meta of Joh/Leoric was driven by tanks with waveclear (Diablo, Anub and Chen start filling this role nowadays). Kael, Kerrigan, Greymane and several other characters have a lot of strength in their wave clear. Is that something you actively design around - "We can't give Chromie/Medivh too much wave clear"-type statements?

    3b. Do you think it would be possible to make a character that can't deal damage to minions at all or is it too unhealthy from a design perspective?


    4. Is there a chance that Lili, the 'simple support' could get some Piano Uther-esq talents to raise her skill ceiling in addition to the low skill floor - Example: 'Extend the range of healing Brew by 30% and allow it to be targeted manually'.


    5. How do you feel about the 'X attacks or X sources of damage' mechanics scattered across the game (Block, Murky's puffer, Blackheart's chest VS Rehgar's Totem, Zagara's Creep, Chromie's Traps)? Do you feel that characters like Tychus, TLV, Vikings can invalidate this. Is there a reason why Blackheart's chest doesn't get a scaling health value to reward more burst oriented characters who are giving up far more to break the chest than TLV/Rehgar/Nazeebo/Tracer?


    6. How do you feel about the state of mages - they have strong 1v1 potential most of the time (Kael's stun, Li-Ming's resets), poke, zoning and wave clear. How do you feel they trade off for those myriad of abilities? Survivability? Burst? Longer cooldowns?


    7. Do you feel that benefit on takedowns make the game more individual skill focused and degrade the team oriented nature of the game (Dehaka's Passive, Li-Ming, Greymane's Go for the Throat and others)?


    8. Not a question - Thank you for quests. I adore the mechanics of them. I always feel the best gameplay exists when players must choose between short term benefits and long term benefits while considering risks. Quests perfectly bring this to center stage in player logic. I'd love to see a Quest-centric hero who's kit is heavily based around quest talents (Hero name: Questing Adventurer, representing a WoW player leveling up, skin variations would feature gear, cute idea imo)


    9 Do you feel balance wise it's possible to make and balance Core Replacement Heroes like C'Thun, Yogg'Saron, Kil'Jaedan, Overmind or the other suggested ideas. A character who doesn't have a killable presence in the main field? Do you feel characters like Abathur, TLV (on certain maps), Cho'Gall and others can have too much of a defining impact on matches they're in? (Example: Matches with Malfurion or Lili aren't nearly as defined by them as Stealthies or TLV shape games)


    10. Favorite design of any single talent in the game. Why? Is there anywhere else in the game you'd wish to expand that design.


    11. As a support main - thank you for Kharazim, Uther and other Support balancing. They're really coming together more than 'Top Tier uther/rehgar/tyrande autopick vs everything'

    Thank you very much for answering my questions if you get to them

    Hey Vantharion! There are a ton of really great questions here, I'll try to get to them all.

    1. There are a lot of things that can help getting a job on a dev team: Working in the computer/console industry (even non-dev jobs). Making creative stuff on your own, like mobile or board games. Becoming involved in the gaming scene, either competitively (eSports/casting/websites/streaming) or providing support (tool creators, web site developers, written content creators. Any work experience that involves collaborating with lots of people, making deadlines, and being organized.

    2. We ask ourselves when the right time to add Talents to a baseline Ability is all the time. Typically, we only do it when we view it as absolutely necessary to balance out pick and win rates on a Talent tier. Our Hero Designers create base kits a certain way on purpose, and continuing to introduce more and more mechanics can start to overly complicate what the core design of an Ability is. We usually ask ourselves: Does this Talent now define the Hero? Is it why they brought to a team? Is it healthy for the game? Can we create viable alternatives at the same tier that are just as compelling, without trying to do the same thing 4 different ways or offering a giant range of tools that the Hero shouldn't have in the large scheme of things? Is cutting the Talent a viable option? Every situation is different, but I'll just reiterate for u/Centaurik's sake that we don't do it lightly!

    3. Yes, we absolutely consider wave clear when both designing and making tuning changes to a Hero. We didn't want Heroes like Medivh and Chromie to have lots of wave clear, so when we buffed them we made sure that they didn't gain any. It would be an easy way to make a lot of Heroes more viable, but after a while every Hero in the game would have tons of wave clear. Which would mean that any Hero that didn't (either live or future) would be non-viable. We also think that any Hero with wave clear should feel special, and to do that we can't give it to everyone. I think that our Hero designers could answer the question of a Hero that doesn't do any damage to Minions better than I could, but I think it could be done! You'd just have to compensate them in other ways, and be sure that they have active things to do.

    4. I don't know that adding "piano Li Li" options really fits what we want from that Hero. We're okay with 1 or 2 options so that someone who loves Li Li and has played a ton of games on her has the ability to begin to opt-in to more complexity, but we view her as one of the easier Heroes to play that doesn't need to have the same skill-cap as others.

    5. We like to use the "X attacks" mechanics occasionally, because it puts some Heroes that have similar attack speed but very different damage amounts on the same footing. For instance, now Brightwing and Raynor can kill a chest in about the same time. We're okay with things like Treasure Chests dying more quickly to people like Tychus, as long as it doesn't break the game (and killing a Treasure Chest a few seconds faster than other Heroes doesn't break the game).

    6. Every mage in our game should have downsides, especially when compared to our Basic Attackers. We think we have room to improve here, both in terms of improving Basic Attackers and providing more obvious weaknesses to our mages. We've also noted that the game has more Basic Attack counters than Ability Damage counters, and this is making things worse.

    7. We think the occasional takedown mechanic is okay for the health of the game. We like it when the players that really want to chase individual skill have a few Heroes that they can gravitate towards.

    8. Thanks, we like them too!

    9. Maybe we could make Core replacment Heroes? They sound cool don't they? And we've balanced crazier things in the game, like Cho'gall or Abathur. There are definitely a ton of challenges there, but I'd there's potential there.

    10. Some of the 20s are really fun, but those break the rules :) I've always really enjoy Chromie's Past and Future Me talent, but I'm not sure that you can really expand that onto a lot of other Heroes.

    11. Glad you're enjoying it! The whole team loves those Heroes too, and we hope that we can continue to provide a wide range of choices in terms of top tier Supports!

    Thanks! I tried my best to answer it all, but there was a lot here!

  • Neyman

    Posted 8 years, 2 months ago (Source)

    Is the team looking at making improvements to maps such as Battlefield of Eternity and Blackheart's Bay, or more focusing on releasing new maps and putting older maps out of rotation as was done with Haunted Mines?

    Will changes be made to the way Grandmaster works? Currently the rankings are fairly arbitrary for all except the top 100 spots because people are constantly dropping/rising (a single win after hitting grandmaster can send you up 100 ranks; a single loss will kick you out of GM again). Because the system isn't based off MMR, there are many players in GM who are...good players, but not really cream of the crop.

    How long would you say the average talent rework takes, like for Zagara (well done on that, btw)?

    Will you add sidebar hero portraits to the game with health bars/heroic ready buttons? This would make it easier to use globals/heals (just click on the portrait, no accidentally healing a minion right next to the intended target). It would also be more straightfoward to see if a hero is in need of assistance in another lane.

    Hey TKBB,

    I can only speak to your question about Talent reworks as a member of the Balance team.

    The larger Talent reworks like Rehgar, Illidan, or Tychus can take anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks, occasionally slipping beyond that.

    • Usually a week is dedicated to determining what we want to accomplish with the Talent rework, and papering out rough ideas and getting feedback.
    • After that, it takes 1-4 days to get all the changes implemented, depending on complexity.
    • After a game or two of testing the changes in an AI game and ensuring our initial numbers weren't way off, we playtest the Hero with all the other Designers.
    • We continue doing tuning and making changes to Talents for a few weeks after that.
  • Neyman

    Posted 8 years, 2 months ago (Source)

    First off, I love too see you guys work through the balance patches. The last patch was one of the best, because you just decided to buff a bunch of lesser used talents! The subtle changes are the ones I love the most, though I am now obsessed with nydus.

    1. how many times does a hero performance surprise you? For instance, Kerrigan felt like a wet noodle before the 10% buff to health and AA damage, and now suddenly skyrocketed to the top of the wincharts, at least on our HOTSlogs.

    2. What change did NOT pan out like expected?

    3. What change worked better than expected?

    Hey Sulicius!

    1. I think collectively as a team, we've been surprised a few times by Hero performance. We've learned a lot over the last few years, and sometimes it doesn't seem like 5-10% Health will do a lot for a Hero that doesn't need it, but it can be dramatic. There's an interesting loop effect of Hero win rates where small buffs can make players that are hardcore and "playing to win" more likely to pick a Hero, therefore further increasing the win rate.

    2. Internally, everyone felt like Rehgar after his Talent rework was fun and strong, but not nearly as overpowered as he turned out to be. We were also pretty surprised by Tychus' rework and how low his win rate was, as he felt pretty scary in all of our playtesting.

    3. Lt. Morales initially came out pretty low, and we were thinking that we were going to have to make some meaningful adjustments to the way her healing worked. We decided to make a few Health adjustments and see where she landed, and she trended up nicely to where she is today!

  • Neyman

    Posted 8 years, 2 months ago (Source)

    "The support problem" has been a topic of conversation in the community for a while. Basically, a bunch of people feel like many supports are just "heal bots" that don't really get to do anything exciting... they just heal people and Cleanse them for the most part. You guys vaguely alluded to some support changes that were in development when the changes to Health Globes and Moon Wells were first mentioned. Any news to share about that?

    We're still actively having conversations about supports internally. I don't have any conclusions, but I can say that we're considering all the following when talking about any future changes:

    • A lot of supporting and healing Abilities are "low skill cap", in that they are point and click instant cast.
    • A lot healing Abilities are a huge part of the "power pie" of a support.
    • Some Supports need to stay easy , because we want a variety of options among Supports.
    • A lot of people really enjoy playing Supports right now, even though some don't.
    • Creating Supports without the Ability to heal is problematic, because Supports that can heal exist. In fact Medivh was a considered a Support for a long while internally, but every playtest it felt like the lack of true healing make him feel inferior. Rather than adjust his kit to include healing, we decided to embrace the fact that he was a Support-style specialist.
    • Any changes to healing number values (up, down, sideways or otherwise) will likely require a lot of other changes to the game, and might really change the way things feel.
    • Some players are playing Supports that otherwise wouldn't want to, due to the Daily Quest system.

    That's not everything, but a lot of it. We don't have any immediate changes coming, but our goal is to make playing a support an enjoyable long-term experience.

  • Neyman

    Posted 8 years, 2 months ago (Source)

    With this latest patch you focused on Muradin's strengths in the competitive scene and tried to balance his versatility without hurting his viability for regular games.

    Do you guys plan on making similar shifts for other Heroes that have an omnipresence in the competitive scene such as Falstad?

    Or do you focus on HL and top 200 more than competitive?

    We think that Falstad is overall too strong right now, in both eSports and Hero League. He's offering a lot of damage, utility, and map presence that makes him virtually always a good pick. We have some plans coming really soon to reduce the damage of Hammer Gains, and hopefully make a few more viable builds.

  • Neyman

    Posted 8 years, 2 months ago (Source)

    Question from 지나나난, 흑인형아, 소호동야만, Romance KR: It seems that some Heroics for Warrior Heroes have significantly lesser-popularity/lower win-rate than other Heroic in the game, can we expect some improvements on under-used Heroics for Warriors to solve the issue, similar to the changes on Emerald Wind and Twilight Dream that compensated some of capability Brightwing and Malfurion have missed out by picking these Heroics?

    Furthermore, it would be better if we can have more parity between Heroics and more interesting Heroics for Support Heroes to allow Supports to make big plays other than just supporting and healing teammates, since that Supports often have some obvious Heroic choices for Supports, as seen as Rehgar’s Ancestral Healing and Bloodlust.

    That's a great question.

    We're always trying to improve the pick rates of the lesser Heroics. Specifically for Warriors, right now we want better diversity on Dehaka, Diablo, E.T.C., Johanna, and Muradin. We haven't detailed any specific plans to fix these issues, so I can't really offer any news right now, but we're well aware.

    We've seen mixed success on the viability of non-healing Heroics on Support, no doubt. We have a few successes on Heroes like Kharazim and Tyrande, but the others see a low pick rate (even though the win rates are very competitive on a few). We think that offering a non-healing Heroic can work, as long as there are very clear situations in which you should take it (like Seven-Sided Strike). We still have room to improve here!

  • Centaurik

    Posted 8 years, 2 months ago (Source)

    Hammer Gains is not a damage talent. Its the level 4 basic attack healing talent.

    Might you be referring to BOOMerang or Gathering Storm?

    hahahaha yea he meant Gathering Storm, which internally was called "hammer gains" for a while (before we reused the name for the lifesteal talent)




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