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Out of curiosity, why wasn't the graveyard implemented?

One of the things that gets complained about in this sub is the lack of a graveyard. I found it really odd when I first started playing, since to my knowledge, games like Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG have proper graveyards, and I considered this game to be the next big thing in card games. Why is it not in the game? Which were the arguments against it? Would love to hear riot's take on this decision, or anyone's opinion.

  • JeffExpress
    Posted 5 years, 9 months ago (Source)

    The issue here is that they're already using graveyard mechanics though. There are tons of cards that directly interact with dead units. It's the next logical step to implement graveyard if only for the sake of clarity.

    That would make cards like "Detain" much clearer as well since the detained target would not go into graveyard meaning it would be clear what happens to the card. Same with Rekindler.

    I think that implementing a graveyard and making Detain more clear are actually two different (though related, cause everything is related) things.

    I say that since we are working on getting the detain clarity stuff in an upcoming patch.

  • JeffExpress
    Posted 5 years, 9 months ago (Source)

    In my opinion, it really depends.

    Let's assume that Graveyard as an entity is in the game and can be tracked (viewed) by a player. Using Detain on a character and looking at graveyard would indicate, to the player, that the Detained card isn't in the graveyard. The logical conclusion to this would be that the card isn't "dead". Basically, the card I just detained isn't in the graveyard, therefore, it isn't dead therefore it's still in the play (which is what Detain does). For a new player, this would be incredibly informative as it would shed light on what Detain actually does.

    Of course, Detain was used as an example of a card that seems like it interacts with the current "Graveyard" while in reality, it doesn't. There are multiple other cards that have seemingly janky interactions with the graveyard. It's more of a clarity issue, that could be resolved simply by showing players which cards are actually "dead".

    For example, does Anivia count as "dead" when in the egg form? Can the Rekindler summon her? Does LVL 1 Tryndamere die when leveling up? These are the questions that wouldn't even exist with a proper graveyard.

    Edit: Same with Harrowing. If you had an actual graveyard, Harrowing could revive the units that are in the graveyard, not just the ones that died. Meaning interactions such as:
    Hecarim dies -> gets revived by the Rekindler -> Harrowing -> More Hecarims
    wouldn't occur.

    It just seems like a weird choice to include the "Millenium Eye" but at the same time, to exclude the Graveyard since both of these entities help with game state tracking.

    Also, if you plan to include any stronger interaction with the graveyard in the future, graveyard would be necessary anyway so I don't really see a reason to exclude it.

    Edit: In regard to the clarity issue for Detain itself, I agree that those are two separate issues. However, instead of clarifying every card separately, the Graveyard eliminates any need for that. It instantly makes the card state clear no matter what elimination/revival effect is used.

    Maybe you can share your opinion on this?

    Sure thing! First off, I want to say you make some very good logical points and I certainly don't disagree with any of it.

    Assuming we have a viewable graveyard I think players could totally figure out what one unit is being detained, but what happens if they detained 2+ units. Then they are in a situation where they would have had to remember which unit goes with which. If they forgot, then it could feel a little like RNG and I think that's not the kind of gameplay we want for Detain. Even if we discount multiple Detains I generally think making players dig through a graveyard looking for what's not in there doesn't sound intuitive and not for me!

    So my proposal is that we make Detain systemically more clear in the near term by making sure players know when a unit has Detain-ed another unit. Helping make it clear when multiple Detains happen. That can happen really soon. I think that's the right direction especially knowing that a viewable graveyard that will take more time and wouldn't happen for awhile.

    "Also, if you plan to include any stronger interaction with the graveyard in the future, graveyard would be necessary anyway..."

    Totally agree with what you're saying here. If graveyard is a thing that becomes more important in future sets then we have to include it. My opinion going into Beta was that we didn't need a graveyard, but all the feedback has helped to evolve my thinking. I think RiotUmbrage explained my pre-Beta thinking well in his tweets.

    Anyways those are just my opinions on the topic. Hopefully that helps. And to be clear the only thing I'm committing to is making detain better! Thanks for your thoughtful replay!
    (Edited: for formatting)

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