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Mythgard's $200 Problem; Or Why I Want to Give Rhino More Money But It's Not Worth It

As someone who's played card games since day 2 of Alpha Magic in 1993, I love Mythgard. It's one of the top 10 card games of all time for me already and likely after an expansion or two going to sit itself solidly at #3 all time behind Android: Netrunner and Lord of the Rings: The Card Game.

That being said, I have a problem. I've given Rhino $210. I want to give them more money but it's just not worth it.

After a few dozen hours of play, the $10 starter pack and $200 worth of crystal directly into packs, before the faction quests came along and completing all of the base game stuff (story, puzzles, all the arenas, etc) I ended up with a collection that was pretty close to 100%/100%/100% of C/U/R cards. Being a completionist, I used pretty much all of my extra dust filling out those holes. I was at about 30% mythic and set my sights on seeing how long it would take to fill those holes and/or how much money it would take.

Some facts I am working with:

1) 1 in 10 packs, on average, will have a Mythic.

2) As Per a Rhino: With the 14% Wildcard/Full Art Upgrade, the average pack dust is 200.

3) 2400 dust to craft a mythic.

So, if I have a collection that is complete except for Mythics, and I only care about Mythics, here's the estimated number of Mythics I will get for $100 in gems.

$100 in gems / 150 gems per pack

= 94 packs

= 9.4 mythics opened (1 in 10)

(94 * 200 - 9.4 * 50) dust (94 packs * 200, minus the 9.4 mythics at 50 dust per as they replace a rare as they won't be dusted)

= 18330 dust

/ 2400 to craft a Mythic

= 7.6 mythics crafted.

9.4 mythics + 7.6 mythics crafted

= 17 mythics ($5.88 per mythic if buying $100 gem packs)

So, if I spent another $100, all I'll have to show for it are 17 random mythics and nothing else as this formula assumes all wilds/full arts are dusted.

I'm currently missing 59 mythics, which means I would need to spend about $350 more to finish the entire collection. When I originally did this math right after I opened the $210 worth of packs, I was missing about 70 mythics. Which means I've ground about $64.68 worth of Mythics in the past 2 weeks. I average maybe an hour or two of play a day.

As per Rhino_Paxton's own data in a previous post, you should be able to grind roughly 1 mythic every other day by opening/dusting packs via daily rewards and general progression. This seems pretty valid to me and my own anecdotal data.

Now, I love this game and I know I'm going to continue to play daily and enjoy the hell out of the game, and I don't technically have to spend dust until I want to build a deck that's missing a mythic I need (I currently have enough dust to craft 5 mythics and have a few mythic wilds, plus finishing the faction quests), I don't really see any reason to spend any more money on Mythgard right now because it's just not worth it, as I'll end up with the rest of the collection pretty quickly with normal play.

So we have a bit of a problem for us whales. Spending about $200 in packs is 100% worth it to start your collection, but there's not a lot of reason to spend any more until the next set drops. For me, I want to spend more money on Mythgard, but because the Mythic craft spike is so high there's almost no reason to right now once you have 100/100/100 of the rest of the rarities.

Current state.

Also, fun side note, if you had a complete non-full art collection and wanted to pay to upgrade to full art every single card it would cost you $2424.12 in gems.

118 Commons * 4 * 100 gems = 47,200 gems

115 Uncommons * 3 * 200 gems = 69,000 gems

89 Rares * 2 * 600 gems = 106,800 gems

99 Mythics * 1200 gems = 118,800 gems

= 341,800 gems

14,100 gems for $100. = $.00709 per gem.

341,800 * $.00709 = $2424.12.

Cardcounts are from mythgardhub.com

paxton

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

As someone in a similar boat to OP spend and collection wise (though op already said he don't care for premiums), the mythril cost to upgrade mythics is incredibly steep to me. And further more, it is something which others can easily get without spending money, so it makes it much less tempting to pimp a deck this way even though I really like them. However, I'd be totally willing to blow some more cash on new boards, trims, and other cosmetics. Preferably there would continue being free editions of many of those things, but I'd love to make my playmat gold or purple or something, make my avatar gold bordered, shiny paths etc. Some stuff to reward those paying hard cash besides just this amazing game we all love.

I imagine yall are working on more cosmetic stuffs along those lines, can't wait to see!

Also I find it interesting (and smart on your part) now that you say it, that you want people to spend a bit, then be able to be comfortable and grind the rest while having fun. Initially I thought it was a poor choice because it feels like money has little purchasing power in the game. But it does create a nice tension keeping people addicted to keep build their collections, thus keeping them playing longer term.

Since Legends of runeterra just put out information on their economy, I'm also wondering what your thoughts are on their setup? I'm sure you've had many similar thoughts to what they discuss in the article about it.

I think we'll have to wait and see how the LoR economy feels when it is released. A lot of times, for instance with battle passes, they seem generous at first look, but actually have hidden mechanisms to get you to spend a lot more money, e.g. to rush your progress so you finish this reward track before time runs out!

That said, it's certainly possible that LoR will be as generous as people are hoping it is. Riot's pockets have nearly unlimited depth, so they can afford to run the game at a loss for as long as they like, if that helps establish it in a place where it can make money eventually. We're a small indie studio. We need to put together a viable business model from the start.

Note that LoR is quite different that Mythgard. It will appeal more to a lot of players, and (hopefully) appeal less to a lot of players. We don't need to be as big as LoR to thrive.
paxton

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago (Source)

Thank you so much for spending $200 on the game. The reality of F2P economies is that the percentage of players who do spend any money at all is tiny. So your support makes a big difference.

Addressing your broader point, it sounds like you are pretty ok with where you are at, and earning the remaining mythics through play. To me that's a f2p economy success story. We've got a lot of different kinds of players to make happy, and the system needs to work for all of them. You certainly qualify as a "whale", but to quote a wise man "there's always a bigger fish". Some whales literally don't care about money and will not give a second thought to buying the whole collection day 1.

We had hoped that players who appreciate cosmetics would use the prestige upgrade system selectively to spend some additional money. The cost to upgrade your whole collection is prohibitive, but that wasn't the intention. Are selective prestige upgrades something you'd be interested in?

P.S.: Quick correction to your math. The 200 essence number is non-mythic essence. If you count mythics, it's more than 250 essence per pack. It's doesn't change your conclusion, but I don't want the wrong number to get stuck in people's heads.

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>As someone in a similar boat to OP spend and collection wise (though op already said he don't care for premiums), the mythril cost to upgrade mythics is incredibly steep to me. And further more, it is something which others can easily get without spending money, so it makes it much less tempting to pimp a deck this way even though I really like them. However, I'd be totally willing to blow some more cash on new boards, trims, and other cosmetics. Preferably there would continue being free editions of many of those things, but I'd love to make my playmat gold or purple or something, make my avatar gold bordered, shiny paths etc. Some stuff to reward those paying hard cash besides just this amazing game we all love. </p>

<p>I imagine yall are working on more cosmetic stuffs along those lines, can't wait to see!</p>

<p>Also I find it interesting (and smart on your part) now that you say it, that you want people to spend a bit, then be able to be comfortable and grind the rest while having fun. Initially I thought it was a poor choice because it feels like money has little purchasing power in the game. But it does create a nice tension keeping people addicted to keep build their collections, thus keeping them playing longer term.</p>

<p>Since Legends of runeterra just put out information on their economy, I'm also wondering what your thoughts are on their setup? I'm sure you've had many similar thoughts to what they discuss in the article about it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>I think we'll have to wait and see how the LoR economy feels when it is released. A lot of times, for instance with battle passes, they seem generous at first look, but actually have hidden mechanisms to get you to spend a lot more money, e.g. to rush your progress so you finish this reward track before time runs out! </p>

<p>That said, it's certainly possible that LoR will be as generous as people are hoping it is. Riot's pockets have nearly unlimited depth, so they can afford to run the game at a loss for as long as they like, if that helps establish it in a place where it can make money eventually. We're a small indie studio. We need to put together a viable business model from the start.</p>

<p>Note that LoR is quite different that Mythgard. It will appeal more to a lot of players, and (hopefully) appeal less to a lot of players. We don't need to be as big as LoR to thrive.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/mythgard/comments/dsvc07/mythgards_200_problem_or_why_i_want_to_give_rhino/f6tq7kj">paxton</a>)
<hr/>

<blockquote class="quoted">
    
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>Thank you so much for spending $200 on the game. The reality of F2P economies is that the percentage of players who do spend any money at all is tiny. So your support makes a big difference.</p>

<p>Addressing your broader point, it sounds like you are pretty ok with where you are at, and earning the remaining mythics through play. To me that's a f2p economy success story. We've got a lot of different kinds of players to make happy, and the system needs to work for all of them. You certainly qualify as a "whale", but to quote a wise man "there's always a bigger fish". Some whales literally don't care about money and will not give a second thought to buying the whole collection day 1.</p>

<p>We had hoped that players who appreciate cosmetics would use the prestige upgrade system selectively to spend some additional money. The cost to upgrade your whole collection is prohibitive, but that wasn't the intention. Are selective prestige upgrades something you'd be interested in?</p>

<p>P.S.: Quick correction to your math. The 200 essence number is non-mythic essence. If you count mythics, it's more than 250 essence per pack. It's doesn't change your conclusion, but I don't want the wrong number to get stuck in people's heads.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/mythgard/comments/dsvc07/mythgards_200_problem_or_why_i_want_to_give_rhino/f6swpxu">paxton</a>)
<hr/>

Tweet

<p><div class="md"><p>I think we'll have to wait and see how the LoR economy feels when it is released. A lot of times, for instance with battle passes, they seem generous at first look, but actually have hidden mechanisms to get you to spend a lot more money, e.g. to rush your progress so you finish this reward track before time runs out! </p>

<p>That said, it's certainly possible that LoR will be as generous as people are hoping it is. Riot's pockets have nearly unlimited depth, so they can afford to run the game at a loss for as long as they like, if that helps establish it in a place where it can make money eventually. We're a small indie studio. We need to put together a viable business model from the start.</p>

<p>Note that LoR is quite different that Mythgard. It will appeal more to a lot of players, and (hopefully) appeal less to a lot of players. We don't need to be as big as LoR to thrive.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/mythgard/comments/dsvc07/mythgards_200_problem_or_why_i_want_to_give_rhino/f6tq7kj">Source</a>)</p>

<p><div class="md"><p>Thank you so much for spending $200 on the game. The reality of F2P economies is that the percentage of players who do spend any money at all is tiny. So your support makes a big difference.</p>

<p>Addressing your broader point, it sounds like you are pretty ok with where you are at, and earning the remaining mythics through play. To me that's a f2p economy success story. We've got a lot of different kinds of players to make happy, and the system needs to work for all of them. You certainly qualify as a "whale", but to quote a wise man "there's always a bigger fish". Some whales literally don't care about money and will not give a second thought to buying the whole collection day 1.</p>

<p>We had hoped that players who appreciate cosmetics would use the prestige upgrade system selectively to spend some additional money. The cost to upgrade your whole collection is prohibitive, but that wasn't the intention. Are selective prestige upgrades something you'd be interested in?</p>

<p>P.S.: Quick correction to your math. The 200 essence number is non-mythic essence. If you count mythics, it's more than 250 essence per pack. It's doesn't change your conclusion, but I don't want the wrong number to get stuck in people's heads.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/mythgard/comments/dsvc07/mythgards_200_problem_or_why_i_want_to_give_rhino/f6swpxu">Source</a>)</p>
    
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