Man, all this discussion about Tyrande and I'm just sitting here with my 1k Anduin skin annoying people with my WOW-Emote.
But, just to add something to all this: I think that the old Owners should be compensated.
I see a lot of people here writting stuff like „you're not losing anything", „you just don't want others to enjoy that skin“, etc.This might get me downvoted, but truth is that older owners do lose something, and that's the emotional value of this skin. Yes, getting Tyrande was not hard, but that's not important. What is however is this little special something that you get from being at the right place at the right time, which is very important to collectors.
When you're selling a product, which in this case is indirectly HS, you want to gain the trust/appreciation of your customerbase. The best way to do so is to establish an emotional bond between customer and product. Or, to put it in other words: You're not just selling a product, you're also selling the experience!
„Hey, you watch HS on Twitch? Well, thank you for your interest in the Community! Here's a little gift!“
By giving away the Skin for free, you are taking away the value it has to players, which leads to them feeling betrayed. You don't want this to happen, so you should give older owners at least something.
So, yeah, it's complicated. I don't think to much about skins, they're just some jpg's with moving effects. But if you do, if you are someone who paid for their skin or did take part in a special event, you should be compensated. After all, you did your part in this Customer-Product-Relationship by engaging and giving your trust to Blizzard.
That’s all well and good, but Blizzard sold the product. The fact that older players bought it for the experience is another matter entirely, which Blizzard has no responsibility over. Therefore, Blizzard doesn’t owe them refunds.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough
When I say product I mean HS, not the Skin itself.
About the expierience-thing: It's very important to give your target group something they can expierience, so they keep engaging with the product (in this case: take part in limited time Event — > maybe spend Money on Packs/Skins). So, yes, Blizzard has some kind of responsibility when it comes things like these, cause it's these things that lead to more trust between them and the customer and therefore possibly more sales in the future.
I'm not talking about Refunds. The Customers were not harmed, so that would be the wrong thing. What I'm saying is, that it would be in Blizzards interest to compensate these „collectors " and keep their trust, because these are also the people that are the most likely to buy more of exclusive Items (like Skins through Pre-Order).
Highlighted the pieces of your argument I want to talk about. You claim that the best business strategy (in your opinion) is to give a sense of trust to old players (by giving them the exclusivity they claim to deserve for playing longer). That’s a reasonable opinion, I’m sure, but that does NOT mean that Blizzard has a moral obligation to abide by that strategy. Just because a certain policy may be their best option financially doesn’t mean they are morally obligated to do it.
This discussion is about whether OP is right to be mad at Blizzard or not for a decision they took, which means we are discussing whether Blizzard is morally on the wrong here. Therefore, your argument doesn’t fit here.
Man, all this discussion about Tyrande and I'm just sitting here with my 1k Anduin skin annoying people with my WOW-Emote.
But, just to add something to all this: I think that the old Owners should be compensated.
I see a lot of people here writting stuff like „you're not losing anything", „you just don't want others to enjoy that skin“, etc.This might get me downvoted, but truth is that older owners do lose something, and that's the emotional value of this skin. Yes, getting Tyrande was not hard, but that's not important. What is however is this little special something that you get from being at the right place at the right time, which is very important to collectors.
When you're selling a product, which in this case is indirectly HS, you want to gain the trust/appreciation of your customerbase. The best way to do so is to establish an emotional bond between customer and product. Or, to put it in other words: You're not just selling a product, you're also selling the experience!
„Hey, you watch HS on Twitch? Well, thank you for your interest in the Community! Here's a little gift!“
By giving away the Skin for free, you are taking away the value it has to players, which leads to them feeling betrayed. You don't want this to happen, so you should give older owners at least something.
So, yeah, it's complicated. I don't think to much about skins, they're just some jpg's with moving effects. But if you do, if you are someone who paid for their skin or did take part in a special event, you should be compensated. After all, you did your part in this Customer-Product-Relationship by engaging and giving your trust to Blizzard.
That’s all well and good, but Blizzard sold the product. The fact that older players bought it for the experience is another matter entirely, which Blizzard has no responsibility over. Therefore, Blizzard doesn’t owe them refunds.
My girlfriend related to the Tyrande-issue with a story from school: there was a pupil who was allowed to leave early once a week (don't know why). Another pupil went forth and asked the prinicipal to be allowed to leave early as well - that's just fine, everybody can plead for equal rights. But when the second pupil was rejected (probably because nr. 1 had reasons nr. 2 couldn't provide), nr. 2 then asked to strip nr. 1 from their privilege to reinstate equality. And this is not okay. As long as nr. 2 isn't directly or indirectly harmed by nr. 1s privilege, nr. 2 may try to get it for his/herself, but should refrain from trying to pull down nr. 1.
A cop stops two cars for speeding. He greets the one and lets him ho. Then he gives you a fine.
From your point of view it is absolutely OK, because you should not take into consideration someones privilege.
Do you see the error in your view?
There’s no error here. It’s not your business whether someone else did or didn’t get punished for something they did. Did you do something wrong that gives someone the right to punish you? If you did, you have absolutely nothing to claim if they do.
You can protest the other person being released on grounds that they may threaten society (and you) if they keep driving unchecked, but that is specific to this example and has nothing to do with the example @anchorm4n brought. Student nr. 1 being allowed to leave early doesn’t impact student nr. 2 in any way, so it’s not his business.
You need to be a buddhist-monk level of conscience, if you can ignore injustice. If everyone would be like ignoring derogiation happening to other then themselves you society would fall apart.
You being treated the way you deserve to be treated isn’t injustice. Injustice would be a cop giving you a ticket without you actually speeding or breaking the law in any way.
My girlfriend related to the Tyrande-issue with a story from school: there was a pupil who was allowed to leave early once a week (don't know why). Another pupil went forth and asked the prinicipal to be allowed to leave early as well - that's just fine, everybody can plead for equal rights. But when the second pupil was rejected (probably because nr. 1 had reasons nr. 2 couldn't provide), nr. 2 then asked to strip nr. 1 from their privilege to reinstate equality. And this is not okay. As long as nr. 2 isn't directly or indirectly harmed by nr. 1s privilege, nr. 2 may try to get it for his/herself, but should refrain from trying to pull down nr. 1.
A cop stops two cars for speeding. He greets the one and lets him ho. Then he gives you a fine.
From your point of view it is absolutely OK, because you should not take into consideration someones privilege.
Do you see the error in your view?
There’s no error here. It’s not your business whether someone else did or didn’t get punished for something they did. Did you do something wrong that gives someone the right to punish you? If you did, you have absolutely nothing to claim if they do.
You can protest the other person being released on grounds that they may threaten society (and you) if they keep driving unchecked, but that is specific to this example and has nothing to do with the example @anchorm4n brought. Student nr. 1 being allowed to leave early doesn’t impact student nr. 2 in any way, so it’s not his business.
I must admit that I am interested in this discussion mainly because of its philosophic aspect. I don't give a damn about me or anyone else owning Tyrande. So I've explained the problem to my girlfriend and we tried to solve it from a moralist point of view. Here's what we concluded:
People should focus on themselves. That means, there WAS a "cost" for obtaining the original Tyrande, no matter how big or small. But OP among other players deemed this cost worth the reward at the time. And this is where the discussion should end. The fact that somebody else gets his or her hands on the same reward for less or no cost is irrelevant to your own experience. You can still enjoy your skin. Other people don't directly influence you in a negative way.
My girlfriend related to the Tyrande-issue with a story from school: there was a pupil who was allowed to leave early once a week (don't know why). Another pupil went forth and asked the prinicipal to be allowed to leave early as well - that's just fine, everybody can plead for equal rights. But when the second pupil was rejected (probably because nr. 1 had reasons nr. 2 couldn't provide), nr. 2 then asked to strip nr. 1 from their privilege to reinstate equality. And this is not okay. As long as nr. 2 isn't directly or indirectly harmed by nr. 1s privilege, nr. 2 may try to get it for his/herself, but should refrain from trying to pull down nr. 1.
OP repeated several times he is angry at blizzard and happy for other people getting Tyrande, I didn't miss that. So there's no actively trying to pull someone else down. But, and that's my whole point, as long as there's no downside in the new deal for you, there's no base for a complaint. Tyrande was worth it at the time you paid for her and that's it. I can understand and I do respect your frustration and your decision to not longer support Blizzard with real money because of this, but I've come to a different conclusion for myself. Thanks for raising the issue to my attention in the first place though, I gained something from this discussion, too.
OP’s base for complaint (which was proven wrong btw, but theoretically speaking) is that the seller (Blizzard) tricked OP by persuading them to buy the product via false advertising (that the product wouldn’t come back for free). It’s a reasonable claim, but as I said, not applicable here.
I just want to throw out there that Blizzard has explicitly said, many times, that Tyrande would be available again. That's why Tyrande returning was such a big announcement, because they were finally making good on their promise.
She has never been a Twitch exclusive; at best she was a timed exclusive for Twitch, and there was no reason to believe otherwise.
This seals it then. Blizzard wasn’t on the wrong here, @Almaniarra. You, as the buyer, have no one to blame but yourself.
Fair enough, warning people against buying Blizzard’s content is a valid reason, especially if they did lie on the marketing. I still think there’s no positive side in changing the skin because of it; the way I see it, the argument you’re making is still valid if the HP wasn’t golden. You’re still getting tricked into spending money for practically the same product.
I agree that the “limited time” argument makes sense here, since the advertising of a limited time offer would possibly persuade you to buy something you maybe wouldn’t have bought immediately. But it still doesn’t make sense on the card back example you gave at the start of the thread.
I said something similar to your opinion about the return of the Rag. card back and I'll say it again here: there is absolutely nothing special about the people who already own the Tyrande hero. There was no true effort involved in obtaining it. You just signed up for Twitch prime and, if from one of the regions where she was not available, lied about where you were. I guess you also linked your Twitch and Blizzard accounts. That's all you had to do.
Having the Tyrande hero means nothing other than that you happened to have been playing HS during the time she was available and were aware of the few small steps you had to take to get her. In my mind that is not something that gives you bragging rights or any reason to want other players to be unable to use her or have some superficial tweak as though the original is more special in some way.
Now if Blizz were to hand out golden heroes or 1000 win portraits to everyone, or card backs that actually took a bit to effort to earn e.g. through heroic single player content or competitive play, then yes I'd take issue with that. But those take time and genuine effort, not 2 minutes and a few jumps between different websites.
It's about that already. I don't normally care for skins.
It's not about people who will obtain the skin. I've just felt tricked to buy Twitch/Amazon Prime. It would be same if now they decide to give King Rastakhan to everyone for free because I don't buy normally pre-orders. I like more to buy packs if I really need packs and I've just pre-ordered Rastakhan's Rumble just because of the skin.
People never understand or even are never trying to understand this complaints are not about them. I decided not to buy any of the hearthstone content anymore because of this shitty move of blizzard because I just knew that in Ragnaros card back times because it was the first move that I don't like and I've said under that article it is not guaranteed that they won't give other time-limited contents anymore and Tyrande skin is proof of that. I've ended up right at the end of the day.
I still didn't buy any of the pre-orders since that time and won't buy any in-game content with real money anymore. I've just tricked by blizzard and wanted to open a thread to express my feelings to warn people who plans to buy limited-time in-game content from blizzard about they are not limited anymore.
It is same with how you will feel tricked if blizzard gives 1000-win portraits and heroic adventures to everyone. At the Ragnaros card back times, people defended blizzard by saying the exact same thing as you by saying "you don't spend any effort to gain that cardback". Now you are using this argument to defend this situation here. How ironic.
I feel tricked by blizzard and other players are personalizing the situation here. I don't care who you are or what you will obtain. I care only that I'm tricked by blizzard and won't buy any of the hearthstone content anymore. That's all. I will continue to play the game but won't support the game. I will watch it lose consumers and die in time and I will try to persuade people to not buy hearthstone content anymore. At least I will make it for my family and friends.
I am not even adressing people who doesn't own Tyrande skin. Stop personalizing the situation.
Thing is, I don’t understand why are you mad at Blizzard.
Yes, you chose poorly when you decided to buy Tyrande. I get that - if I buy something that is later given out for free, I’ll feel stupid for buying it, and feel like I wasted my money for nothing.
But how is that Blizzard’s fault? They don’t owe you anything just because you made the decision to buy their skin. You could have an argument if they specifically marketed that the product wouldn’t be offered again/for free. But they didn’t say that, so the way I see it you only have your own judgment to blame.
I definitely get the desire to not buy their content anymore - it’s been shown to be an unwise decision. But I don’t think there’s anyone you should be angry at.
Finally a sane argument;
I think its Blizzard's fault because they advertised it as "Special offer for only Twitch/Amazon Prime" like how they are advertising pre-order skins as "pre-order exclusive.".
I've bought Prime just because of Tyrande so I think i have a reason to blame blizzard.
I've bought Rastakhan's Rumble pre-order just because of obtaining King Rastakhan. I will be tricked twice if they gave it or make it available to buy again for 10$ for example because normally I wouldn't buy that 40+$ pre-order but bought it because of the skin and if i didn't buy that skin with pre-order I would be able to buy it with less money. (that's arguable that I have also got packs but I didn't need those packs because I had enough golds to buy it ah that's also arguable too that I have saved those golds for next expansion tho.)
anyways, I hope you got my point. I don't agree the argument; "it was your decision, blizzard is not responsible for this." I think that With me, Blizzard is also responsible for this by advertising it as an exclusive item and am thinking about it as I deserve a compensation or a difference between old tyrande skin and new one.
I get your point, but did Blizzard specify the offer won’t return afterwards? If they didn’t, your impression then doesn’t really justify you being mad at them now. They didn’t trick you. As the buyer, it was your call, and therefore your responsibility.
If they did, I still don’t think they should change the product to maintain exclusivity, because that would be unfair towards the people who buy the skin. Other people shouldn’t be negatively affected because Blizzard tricked you. The fact that you didn’t actually pay only for Tyrande, but for another benefit makes it a difficult situation for them: Blizzard can’t just refund every person that claims they only bought Twitch Prime because of Tyrande. It would mean they lied in their marketing though, so they would be on the wrong here.
Also, I think it’s worth mentioning your argument about “older players” has no place here. We’re talking about paid vs. free, so the argument you’re making now is completely illogical in the card back situation, for instance.
Oops, didn’t see it was my turn. My bad :P
Oobdi - doo!
I wanna be like you,
I wanna Taunt like you,
Stab like you,
too-hoo-hoo!
Next: a Legendary with EVIL theme that generates lots of Lackeys, but with a drawback:
Howlfiend?
Wait, so what does frog have to do with it? And if it’s strong AS a boar, wouldn’t that mean it’s not a boar itself?
Im not salty you’re salty
Hench-Clan Hogsteed
Highlighted the pieces of your argument I want to talk about. You claim that the best business strategy (in your opinion) is to give a sense of trust to old players (by giving them the exclusivity they claim to deserve for playing longer). That’s a reasonable opinion, I’m sure, but that does NOT mean that Blizzard has a moral obligation to abide by that strategy. Just because a certain policy may be their best option financially doesn’t mean they are morally obligated to do it.
This discussion is about whether OP is right to be mad at Blizzard or not for a decision they took, which means we are discussing whether Blizzard is morally on the wrong here. Therefore, your argument doesn’t fit here.
Golden Scarab, then
Then I’m guessing it doesn’t actually summon it... Jeweled Scarab?
Big-Time Racketeer? He’s Common yet expensive (precious), he’s only a 1/1, and he summons a “Friend”. Also, that’s a pretty cool leaderboard!
That’s all well and good, but Blizzard sold the product. The fact that older players bought it for the experience is another matter entirely, which Blizzard has no responsibility over. Therefore, Blizzard doesn’t owe them refunds.
Yeah, sorry about that. Normal Coin won’t show on the image option, so I switched to Counterfeit Coin and changed the spellstone accordingly
What?! What kind of retroactive trickery is this?! Oh well, you’ll find there’s much more where that came from
I’ll counter that
You being treated the way you deserve to be treated isn’t injustice. Injustice would be a cop giving you a ticket without you actually speeding or breaking the law in any way.
There’s no error here. It’s not your business whether someone else did or didn’t get punished for something they did. Did you do something wrong that gives someone the right to punish you? If you did, you have absolutely nothing to claim if they do.
You can protest the other person being released on grounds that they may threaten society (and you) if they keep driving unchecked, but that is specific to this example and has nothing to do with the example @anchorm4n brought. Student nr. 1 being allowed to leave early doesn’t impact student nr. 2 in any way, so it’s not his business.
OP’s base for complaint (which was proven wrong btw, but theoretically speaking) is that the seller (Blizzard) tricked OP by persuading them to buy the product via false advertising (that the product wouldn’t come back for free). It’s a reasonable claim, but as I said, not applicable here.
Also, pupil nr. 2 sounds like an asshole
This seals it then. Blizzard wasn’t on the wrong here, @Almaniarra. You, as the buyer, have no one to blame but yourself.
@Almaniarra wow, that was faster than I expected. Your turn!
Fair enough, warning people against buying Blizzard’s content is a valid reason, especially if they did lie on the marketing. I still think there’s no positive side in changing the skin because of it; the way I see it, the argument you’re making is still valid if the HP wasn’t golden. You’re still getting tricked into spending money for practically the same product.
I agree that the “limited time” argument makes sense here, since the advertising of a limited time offer would possibly persuade you to buy something you maybe wouldn’t have bought immediately. But it still doesn’t make sense on the card back example you gave at the start of the thread.
I get your point, but did Blizzard specify the offer won’t return afterwards? If they didn’t, your impression then doesn’t really justify you being mad at them now. They didn’t trick you. As the buyer, it was your call, and therefore your responsibility.
If they did, I still don’t think they should change the product to maintain exclusivity, because that would be unfair towards the people who buy the skin. Other people shouldn’t be negatively affected because Blizzard tricked you. The fact that you didn’t actually pay only for Tyrande, but for another benefit makes it a difficult situation for them: Blizzard can’t just refund every person that claims they only bought Twitch Prime because of Tyrande. It would mean they lied in their marketing though, so they would be on the wrong here.
Also, I think it’s worth mentioning your argument about “older players” has no place here. We’re talking about paid vs. free, so the argument you’re making now is completely illogical in the card back situation, for instance.