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Feedback | Posted by | 6 years, 10 months ago

Please prevent deck spammers early enough, don't let it degenerate like on Hearthpwn

This guy https://outof.cards/members/pcjco posted over 100 decks on ONE DAY and all of them DO NOT HAVE A F***ING GUIDE.

I hated this so much on hearthpwn, just spamming decks and the endless number of dupe decks without any description.

PLEASE prevent this early enough, it's easy to identify 100% identical decks. Stop the dupe decks and remove decks that have no description / guide.

Quality > Quantity

 

Edit: Just saw that the decks this guy posted are deck recipes, but still, the message keeps the same.
No description is a no go, maybe just collect them in a single forums post.

Here is another guy https://outof.cards/members/octrange with 12 decks on the same day. No descriptions, no guides. Just delete them, please.

 

You can see how the database is already blown up with such spam:

Decks with guides: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/?has_guide=2 - 12 pages

Decks with no guides https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/?page=31&has_guide=3 - 31 pages

 

 

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  • This guy https://outof.cards/members/pcjco posted over 100 decks on ONE DAY and all of them DO NOT HAVE A F***ING GUIDE.

    I hated this so much on hearthpwn, just spamming decks and the endless number of dupe decks without any description.

    PLEASE prevent this early enough, it's easy to identify 100% identical decks. Stop the dupe decks and remove decks that have no description / guide.

    Quality > Quantity

     

    Edit: Just saw that the decks this guy posted are deck recipes, but still, the message keeps the same.
    No description is a no go, maybe just collect them in a single forums post.

    Here is another guy https://outof.cards/members/octrange with 12 decks on the same day. No descriptions, no guides. Just delete them, please.

     

    You can see how the database is already blown up with such spam:

    Decks with guides: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/?has_guide=2 - 12 pages

    Decks with no guides https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/?page=31&has_guide=3 - 31 pages

     

     

  • I don't agree that "duplicate" decks should not be allowed. You end up with a problem then of the person that creates it first dictates how it evolves on the site, at least without a crazy amount of moderation.

    The reason the has guides filter exists is to help combat "junk" decks. There are plans for more tools to help people find actual useful content and there will be incentives for people to make good guides. Another thing we currently have is all decks start at zero. If a deck creator really wants to share their deck and let others see it, they're more likely to upvote their own deck. Adding in filters later on that allow users to hide decks with less than a certain score are on the to do list.

    Ultimately, people should be allowed to use the site to share their decks and keep a record of decks they enjoyed playing. I think HearthPwn did a very good job with that, it just needs more powerful filters to let people find good content easier. Content discovery is going to be big here instead of simply deck discovery. One thing that will help with this is showcasing related decks on deck pages with a a preference given to decks with guides. We'll also end up having a way for staff, and maybe select community members, to be able to "star" decks to flag them as recommended to the community for having outstanding content.

    • Quote From Fluxflashor

      I don't agree that "duplicate" decks should not be allowed. You end up with a problem then of the person that creates it first dictates how it evolves on the site, at least without a crazy amount of moderation.

      The reason the has guides filter exists is to help combat "junk" decks. There are plans for more tools to help people find actual useful content and there will be incentives for people to make good guides. Another thing we currently have is all decks start at zero. If a deck creator really wants to share their deck and let others see it, they're more likely to upvote their own deck. Adding in filters later on that allow users to hide decks with less than a certain score are on the to do list.

      Ultimately, people should be allowed to use the site to share their decks and keep a record of decks they enjoyed playing. I think HearthPwn did a very good job with that, it just needs more powerful filters to let people find good content easier. Content discovery is going to be big here instead of simply deck discovery. One thing that will help with this is showcasing related decks on deck pages with a a preference given to decks with guides. We'll also end up having a way for staff, and maybe select community members, to be able to "star" decks to flag them as recommended to the community for having outstanding content.

      These are great ideas for the future and I agree with what you said. I would love to have a way to create my own list of "favorite decks" so I can easily go reference them again and see if guides were added or they were modified. Or follow a deck to be alerted with it is updated. Things like that would encourage deck creators to edit previous decks instead of making virtually identical new ones. O

    • Sounds good to me. Filtering by Standard/Wild is not yet there, but I guess it's on the works. Combining sorting by score AND filtering by recent decks only (last week and last month, for example) would also be very useful.

    • Quote From Fluxflashor

      [...] You end up with a problem then of the person that creates it first dictates how it evolves on the site, at least without a crazy amount of moderation.

      [...]There are plans for more tools to help people find actual useful content and there will be incentives for people to make good guides. 

      [...]Ultimately, people should be allowed to use the site to share their decks and keep a record of decks they enjoyed playing. I think HearthPwn did a very good job with that, it just needs more powerful filters to let people find good content easier. Content discovery is going to be big here instead of simply deck discovery.

       

      While I respect your opinion a lot and certainly understand why you want to go the same way Hearthpwn did I really hoped that this site would go into a complete different approach concering the deck database.

      I know that the moderation amount for decks would be larger than before, but if you prevent dupe decks it would not only be in a size that humans could handle, it would also give the option to involve the community more with moderation. Imagine it as a kind of wiki, you have a comprehensible deck database and a community that cares about the content.

      Creating a huge deck database and trying to code scripts/tools so that the visitor of this site might find a deck he would like is not only the harder task (in my opinion Hearthpwn failed on that task which is why I stopped posting my decks there), it's in the long run also the wrong way (in my humble opinion of course). There are still enough other sites going this approach, so if you have the chance to build something new - why try to build the same thing others already have only a bit greener with more dots?

      Concerning people allowing to post decks they enjoy just provides to the same problem - bloating the database. If the deck is already in the database, they can comment there like "I love this deck, played 10000 games of it" and follow any changes the original poster adds to the guide. And in any other case, he could create a new deck copy and just change 1 card which might be the same deck with the same strategy but with another tech card which could lead into 29 different iterations of the same deck. You see, even if you approach my suggested way, the database would still be huge but with a very high quality.

      Just forcing quantity with finder-tools for the database is nothing new and not innovative. Maybe most people just want another copy of Hearthpwn because they were happy with it and you just want to do that. Well, then go for it and I if it is like this I wish you the best luck with it.

      Just my 2 cents and maybe no one cares what I have written here, but if only 1 guy agrees it was worth typing it ;)

       

       

      • Quote From Leolph
        Quote From Fluxflashor

        [...] You end up with a problem then of the person that creates it first dictates how it evolves on the site, at least without a crazy amount of moderation.

        [...]There are plans for more tools to help people find actual useful content and there will be incentives for people to make good guides. 

        [...]Ultimately, people should be allowed to use the site to share their decks and keep a record of decks they enjoyed playing. I think HearthPwn did a very good job with that, it just needs more powerful filters to let people find good content easier. Content discovery is going to be big here instead of simply deck discovery.

         

        While I respect your opinion a lot and certainly understand why you want to go the same way Hearthpwn did I really hoped that this site would go into a complete different approach concering the deck database.

        I know that the moderation amount for decks would be larger than before, but if you prevent dupe decks it would not only be in a size that humans could handle, it would also give the option to involve the community more with moderation. Imagine it as a kind of wiki, you have a comprehensible deck database and a community that cares about the content.

        Creating a huge deck database and trying to code scripts/tools so that the visitor of this site might find a deck he would like is not only the harder task (in my opinion Hearthpwn failed on that task which is why I stopped posting my decks there), it's in the long run also the wrong way (in my humble opinion of course). There are still enough other sites going this approach, so if you have the chance to build something new - why try to build the same thing others already have only a bit greener with more dots?

        Concerning people allowing to post decks they enjoy just provides to the same problem - bloating the database. If the deck is already in the database, they can comment there like "I love this deck, played 10000 games of it" and follow any changes the original poster adds to the guide. And in any other case, he could create a new deck copy and just change 1 card which might be the same deck with the same strategy but with another tech card which could lead into 29 different iterations of the same deck. You see, even if you approach my suggested way, the database would still be huge but with a very high quality.

        Just forcing quantity with finder-tools for the database is nothing new and not innovative. Maybe most people just want another copy of Hearthpwn because they were happy with it and you just want to do that. Well, then go for it and I if it is like this I wish you the best luck with it.

        Just my 2 cents and maybe no one cares what I have written here, but if only 1 guy agrees it was worth typing it ;)

         

         

        IMHO what you say is wrong because this isn't an encyclopedia. This is a place when we come to share our own decklist. Our personal version of an archetype may be different from the most popular version, and we want to share it. If we do as you said, there would be place only for one populare netdecked version, while in this way there is place for everyone.

        However, we can do both way if we want.

      • Quote From Leolph
        Quote From Fluxflashor

        [...] You end up with a problem then of the person that creates it first dictates how it evolves on the site, at least without a crazy amount of moderation.

        [...]There are plans for more tools to help people find actual useful content and there will be incentives for people to make good guides. 

        [...]Ultimately, people should be allowed to use the site to share their decks and keep a record of decks they enjoyed playing. I think HearthPwn did a very good job with that, it just needs more powerful filters to let people find good content easier. Content discovery is going to be big here instead of simply deck discovery.

         

        While I respect your opinion a lot and certainly understand why you want to go the same way Hearthpwn did I really hoped that this site would go into a complete different approach concering the deck database.

        I know that the moderation amount for decks would be larger than before, but if you prevent dupe decks it would not only be in a size that humans could handle, it would also give the option to involve the community more with moderation. Imagine it as a kind of wiki, you have a comprehensible deck database and a community that cares about the content.

        Creating a huge deck database and trying to code scripts/tools so that the visitor of this site might find a deck he would like is not only the harder task (in my opinion Hearthpwn failed on that task which is why I stopped posting my decks there), it's in the long run also the wrong way (in my humble opinion of course). There are still enough other sites going this approach, so if you have the chance to build something new - why try to build the same thing others already have only a bit greener with more dots?

        Concerning people allowing to post decks they enjoy just provides to the same problem - bloating the database. If the deck is already in the database, they can comment there like "I love this deck, played 10000 games of it" and follow any changes the original poster adds to the guide. And in any other case, he could create a new deck copy and just change 1 card which might be the same deck with the same strategy but with another tech card which could lead into 29 different iterations of the same deck. You see, even if you approach my suggested way, the database would still be huge but with a very high quality.

        Just forcing quantity with finder-tools for the database is nothing new and not innovative. Maybe most people just want another copy of Hearthpwn because they were happy with it and you just want to do that. Well, then go for it and I if it is like this I wish you the best luck with it.

        Just my 2 cents and maybe no one cares what I have written here, but if only 1 guy agrees it was worth typing it ;)

         

         

        I understand what you're getting at and i think there is some room to implement ways to condense decks that are seen, but i don't think that preventing anyone from posting duplicate decks for themselves is the answer. It should be done in such a way that it does not negatively impact the user experience, like preventing users from doing something because someone else already did.

        I think there's ways to mitigate some of the unsavoury experience you are describing from your perspective in a much less oppressive way. Everyone has different reasons and purposes for wanting to create deck lists for themselves on their own accounts, from trying to get the most upvotes and influence the meta to just saving a decklist for later where it is easily accessible (your own decks will definitely be easier to find than any others). 

        Instead of every deck being visible to everyone when they search for decks, maybe preset filters would be useful. It would be cool if users could choose their own default filter settings so that they only see decks that match their personal preferences of quality or interest and don't have to sift through a bunch of junk. For example, hide decks without guides, hide decks by certain users or from certain classes, above or below certain dust or vote thresholds etc.

         

        • Quote From Chimera

          [...] Everyone has different reasons and purposes for wanting to create deck lists for themselves on their own accounts, from trying to get the most upvotes and influence the meta to just saving a decklist for later where it is easily accessible [...]

           

           

           

          Well, we already know it from Hearthpwn that the voting system has a lot of flaws. When a deck is promoted by an article, that deck will be "the deck" for deck type X, when a specific well known user posts decks those will get more attention because a lot of people follow them already. Moreover it was important to post decks on a specific day to have a chance to get into the "new decks for class X" section and if you were lucky enough and the first visitors upvote it goes upstairs but the same applies for the other direction.

          The bloated database system we know from Hearthpwn was horrible for deckbuilders. If you create a unique deck, write a guide and share this deck with others you want feedback. Hearthpwn could not deliver that and it's very sad if this site goes the same way.

          Oh, and if you just want a site to save your own decks then you can do that better with a deckcode/screenshot on your twitter account - the chances you get feedback are way higher than on any deck database site.

          But I don't want to be impatient, we will see how the site will develop the next weeks/months.

           

  • If you can filter decks without descriptions, then I don't see what the issue is here.

  • Is this the new Hearthpwn?

     

      btw, unclear on how to start a new post

  • In the forum you want to post, at the top of the page there's a button " Create New Thread".

    Hard to overlook

  • What about making the "with guide" filter the default one, when hopping on the Decks page?

    And then one has to manually switch to "without guide", if they really want to.

    At some point you could even add in the "with guide" query a minimum amount of characters, if you havent already, like 50 or something like that.

  • I would think it's against the rules to target other people on the forums. You can express your opinion without putting a target over someone's head. If he wants to make 100 decks so be it, that is his choice.

  • I think its old Hearthpwn ideology with creating/sharing as many decks as possible to garner an achievement or accolade.  As long as outof.cards doesn't do any sort of achievement system, or recognition system - I believe the filter feature is the best way to weed out those that don't create guides.

  • As was already mentioned, a lot of people just drop their decklist in here so they can find it again later easily. 18 deck slots is a very small number in-game; many people use this type of site to store their extra decklists.

  • My inbox on HearthPwn was always open to people to showcase their unique decks and guides, many of which made it to news posts. I also always encouraged people who wrote guides or wanted feedback to take their deck to the relevant class forums and to spark up discussion. Unfortunately, many people would just create a thread, drop the deck code in it, and hit post. Not a single talking point about the deck.

    I disagree that a deckcode or screenshot saved to your twitter feed is better than an interface actually built for finding decks.

    Definitely believe me though when I say we'll have better deck discoverability than HearthPwn. I know there are always flaws to every system. One very basic thing I'd like to do is pull a half-Blizzard where we could show people that have cards in their collections imported to the site random deck guides that they have all the cards for. Building in a little bit of bias towards content that hasn't been seen but appears to be quality will help out with that a ton.

    There's also going to be much more curation of decks. Although I 100% will always respect voting from a community because democracy is awesome, there have been great instances where even decks we have highlighted in a news post end up not being seen as much as they could have been. Expect an overhaul of the homepage to find more decks easier. We'll also be spotlighting wild in a dedicated block to encourage more people to check out the format and give people that like to create that kind of content better ways to get it seen. So basically expect dedicated blocks for:

    • Standard Decks
    • Wild Decks
    • Pro Decks
    • Curated Decks (Chosen by Staff)

    We may even have a section that showcases a random deck guide created recently. Also, I could see a point in time where the front page blocks will only ever show decks that have guides attached to them. It helps curb a lot of the empty decks we see