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Legends of Runeterra | Posted by | 4 years, 10 months ago
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Still No News From Riot?

It feels like we've been dealing with this turbo meta for over a month.

Its literally just Irelia Azir every match with its 60% winrate that should of been seen a mile away with internal play testing.

Or at the very least addressed with the last patch. I can't describe the number of decks it shuts down.

Want to meme with Heimer nope, Karma nope, Taric nope, Anivia nope, Riven nope, Yassao nope

They must realize people aren't actually "playing" the game right now

They are playing roughly 2% of the game 

I think saying.that people will always play the meta is a derivative excuse, yes people will but how free players are to ladder with alternatives is entirely up to the devs.

Riot seriously fix your game...

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  • It feels like we've been dealing with this turbo meta for over a month.

    Its literally just Irelia Azir every match with its 60% winrate that should of been seen a mile away with internal play testing.

    Or at the very least addressed with the last patch. I can't describe the number of decks it shuts down.

    Want to meme with Heimer nope, Karma nope, Taric nope, Anivia nope, Riven nope, Yassao nope

    They must realize people aren't actually "playing" the game right now

    They are playing roughly 2% of the game 

    I think saying.that people will always play the meta is a derivative excuse, yes people will but how free players are to ladder with alternatives is entirely up to the devs.

    Riot seriously fix your game...

    • What news are you expecting exactly?

      They already said that they have more nerfs for Azir/Irelia if the current ones aren't enough. They also said that the next balance patch will have a large number of cards updates, all that need to be said have been said. Now it's all a matter of whatever they will back their words with action or not.

  • I'm expecting patch notes, and a hotfix. Like it's a digital card game. Doesn't take two weeks to implement what should be a relatively straight forward change. Nevermind a month.

    As for the actual design overhauls or buffs to lesser known archetypes sure take all the time you need. But what players need is an emergency hotfix.

    ---Fyi----

    Irelia Azir was buffed at the same time as being nerfed because Irelia summons blade burst on level up now.

    Thats why we haven't seen the decks win rate go down even an inch.

    • They always give patch note one or two day before the patch goes live so I don't understand why you are expecting one so soon. As for a hotfix, that will be great to have but I don't see that happening either. Azir/Irelia is still the most dominant deck but the nerfs did decrease it's play rate so Riot is probably thinking that is good enough for now.

      So you can still play the game and repeat the same complains over and over again or you can do what most player have been doing, take a break until they fix the meta.

    • Quote From Nifty129

      I'm expecting patch notes, and a hotfix. Like it's a digital card game. Doesn't take two weeks to implement what should be a relatively straight forward change. Nevermind a month.

      As for the actual design overhauls or buffs to lesser known archetypes sure take all the time you need. But what players need is an emergency hotfix.

      ---Fyi----

      Irelia Azir was buffed at the same time as being nerfed because Irelia summons blade burst on level up now.

      Thats why we haven't seen the decks win rate go down even an inch.

      They made a big post on Reddit the day after the last patch. They are going to break their usual pattern and do a huge balance patch alongside the next expansion release. Yes, it's another 3 weeks. Yes, I REALLY wish they had done a big balance patch at the time they were supposed to do a big balance patch (a week ago).

      Apparently, their team is not really very big (see their comments that live balance is handled by only 3 people), and their team has been focused on future content. They recognize that as a problem.

      Finally, if they are going to do unplanned balance changes, they cannot just throw them into the "balance me now" machine and spit out new versions of the cards the next day. They have to program the changes, test the changes with at least some minimum number of actual games played with the new versions to make sure they aren't super busted, compile all of the new coding into a patch file, and get the whole thing tested to make sure it doesn't have bad side effects (a step they apparently kinda missed with the most recent patch).

      We'll survive for 3 weeks. <--- That's the mature side of me speaking. The immature side of me wants to scream that I'm sick of losing to Azir/Irelia even when I'm playing a deck that "counters" it.

  • Its not hard to build a deck to beat Irelia/Azir
    The real problem that stagnates the meta is to find a deck that consistently beats Irelia/Azir that also has a fair chance against those other 2: Thresh/Nasus, Zoe/Aurelion Sol

    • Zoe/Shyvanna/A.Sol sure. Tresh/Nasus definitely, but Fiora? Fiora is not part of any top tier deck.

      The other top tier are Trundle/Lissandra control and Ezreal/Draven, people only use is Fiora because she is a good if inconsistent counter to Azir/Irelia.

  • Just checked the ladder games and you are right about Fiora, its now removed from my prior post, ty

    • You know the funny part? Azir/Irelia made wish that Fiora was still a 3/3. 

  • @helicopter yes I know Azir Irelia is beatable especially at lower ranks I fed off them to reach diamond with my own brews. But once you get to those higher levels and they tighten up their plays it gets roughly a million times more consistent.

    Hence the 60% winrate on mobalytics right now. It's gonna get nerfed hard I just want it done sooner rather than later.

    As for Thesh Nasus it's arguable the most linear and beatable deck on the tier list, with Draven Ezreal being probably one of the hardest to contend with.

    Dragons I rate as incredible match up dependent as a midrange list. Asol will mess you up late game, but they aren't actually very good at controlling the opponent out when all they have is strikes and challenges.

    Lisandra trundle I'm gonna rate S for stupid it's literally just if you don't win the game by mana 8 I win the deck.

  • Funny read, the Runeterra team balance manifesto :-)

    • Every champion should have a deck where they're the best fit and their “dream” can be realized.
    • Non-champion cards should have at least one deck where they're a good option.
    • Regions should have at least one competitively viable deck.
    • The meta should support the widest possible array of competitively viable decks.

    Source: https://playruneterra.com/en-us/news/patch-0-9-0-notes/

  • Well said I like this comment ^

    Yikes 3 weeks on top of all the time we've waited is really problematic though.

    I hope they learn some lessons from this and streamline their interior card change pipeline.

  • So I'm probably gonna do what every content creator has done and stop playing this game till it gets "fun" I have no interest in lab. So no more new decks, no more ladders for at least 3 weeks till I start seeing some possitive changes in the turbo meta.

  • https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/nr2ckp/we_hear_you_updates_to_live_cards_and_the_future/

    in 3 weeks, 8 July (Riot patchs all their games every 2 weeks on Tuesday nights ) we will be getting a big patch hopefully shifting the meta alongside new cards too..

    Sadly they don't have that big of a team on the game yet (like in league) so they can't do as much as they did before while keeping up the content.

    Also on the bright side according to this post:

    it loses BADLY to aggro.

     

    I dunno I don't play ladder much I am enjoying the new labs content :D

    • This is not exactly news. Azir/Irelia always had  bad match ups against aggro who themselves have bad match ups against Tresh/Nasus and Trundle/Lissandra control, hence why so many pro player describe the current meta as "coin flip".

      • Quote From minuano28

        This is not exactly news. Azir/Irelia always had  bad match ups against aggro who themselves have bad match ups against Tresh/Nasus and Trundle/Lissandra control, hence why so many pro player describe the current meta as "coin flip".

        Exactly. There's a VERY good reason that aggro has such a low playrate in Diamond and Masters - aggro has always been very easy to counter. Specifically, both Nasus/Thresh and Demacia/Targon (aka Dragons), and even Matron Cithria, have no problems kicking its teeth in, whatever flavor the aggro happens to be. 

        And seriously, there must be a lot of bad Azir/Irelia players out there to make it look like aggro is so favored against it. My Azir/Irelia opponents are either much more skilled or much more lucky than average, because my aggro decks do not get that kind of winrate against them.

  • Thanks for the matchup tables I know Azir Irelia looses to aggro. That's why my overwhelm brew did so well against them and got me to diamond. 

    But the thing is what if you dont want to play aggro anymore?

    What if you want to experience the rest of the games champion selection?

    Then you're basically saying okay I am going to loose 70% of the time 1/5 matches.

    So you essentially can't climb effectively.

    That is the definition of a unhealthy and oppressive meta deck

    • Quote From Nifty129

      Thanks for the matchup tables I know Azir Irelia looses to aggro. That's why my overwhelm brew did so well against them and got me to diamond. 

      But the thing is what if you dont want to play aggro anymore?

      What if you want to experience the rest of the games champion selection?

      Then you're basically saying okay I am going to loose 70% of the time 1/5 matches.

      So you essentially can't climb effectively.

      That is the definition of a unhealthy and oppressive meta deck

      It should be at least less popular ATM cause it has a "nerfed archtype syndrome" where people will play it less cause it just got nerfed.

      Look at the bright side though it's not Blizzard we are talking about where they had Pirate Warrior around for 6 months and patches unnerfed for 1.5 years.. 3 weeks and it's fixed..

      Dunno why it seems like people playing HS can coup with bigger bullshit than people playing LoR in HS the meta is toxic AF for long period of time and nobody "leaves" but in LoR there are some unhealthy metas and everyone loses their minds, at least you don't get attacked to the face mindlessly and lose every game you miss a 1 drop.

      • I guess part of the reason why it seems like players in HS can put up with unhealthy metas is because there were simply a lot more players in Hearthstone than there is currently in LoR. Most of them casual too so unlike LoR players who would have a full collection a lot of people would put up with some of the most oppressive decks just for their dailies or rank rewards. If they were grinding and suddenly found new cards to play with, they would build a new deck and try it out and that kind of progress is missing in LoR after a month of playing or after a week of an expansion. It could also probably be the fact that HS games are much simpler and ends faster so it doesn't feel like a slog sometimes.

      • Quote From DoubleSummon
        Quote From Nifty129

        Thanks for the matchup tables I know Azir Irelia looses to aggro. That's why my overwhelm brew did so well against them and got me to diamond. 

        But the thing is what if you dont want to play aggro anymore?

        What if you want to experience the rest of the games champion selection?

        Then you're basically saying okay I am going to loose 70% of the time 1/5 matches.

        So you essentially can't climb effectively.

        That is the definition of a unhealthy and oppressive meta deck

        It should be at least less popular ATM cause it has a "nerfed archtype syndrome" where people will play it less cause it just got nerfed.

        Look at the bright side though it's not Blizzard we are talking about where they had Pirate Warrior around for 6 months and patches unnerfed for 1.5 years.. 3 weeks and it's fixed..

        Dunno why it seems like people playing HS can coup with bigger bullshit than people playing LoR in HS the meta is toxic AF for long period of time and nobody "leaves" but in LoR there are some unhealthy metas and everyone loses their minds, at least you don't get attacked to the face mindlessly and lose every game you miss a 1 drop.

        Those were different times. Blizzard made so many beloved games as result they enjoyed the status of "Sacred Cow", for a long time you could not criticize anything Blizzard did without being lynched by legions of fan boys. As for Runeterra players did not lose their minds over night, it took a succession of bad metas and decision for the community to became vocally critical of the game.

  • I dont know too much about hearthstone these days I haven't played since a few years after it was released.

    But in mtg toxic metas, and worse poorly balanced sets or mechanics have absolutely led to less streamer representation, and player migration.

    Mogwai the new poster boy for Riot played arena exclusively till he couldn't put up with Oko the broko any longer.

    And that's where I come from as well

    Balance matters, and it will affect the long term health of your game.

    Even if you don't see a decrease in your bottom line because whales will always whale.

    Sentiment and player feedback is important.

  • I'm pretty strongly convinced that it's the length and difficulty of ladder climbing that makes it such a big deal. If climbing were not so brutally difficult, people would be more forgiving of bad metas

  • I guess...like getting to masters is a brutally difficult grind. Getting to diamond is easy breezy do it on your phone in your spare time.

    For me the issue is simple I want to play Heimer, and Riven, and Taric and Lux, and Yassao, and all these slow value Champs and you just can't right now and that's not fun as a deck builder.

    • Quote From Nifty129

      I guess...like getting to masters is a brutally difficult grind. Getting to diamond is easy breezy do it on your phone in your spare time.

      For me the issue is simple I want to play Heimer, and Riven, and Taric and Lux, and Yassao, and all these slow value Champs and you just can't right now and that's not fun as a deck builder.

      I agree, it sucks you can't play old champions when the meta get power crept too much.

      but people are too Doomsayers about the game.. it feels bad that it seems like people really easily just forget that it's a card game and they all have those bad metas, while at least in Riot they won't keep the meta that way for too long since they do have a working balance team(in contrast to Blizzard in mean streets of gadgetzan era).

      I really like the design of the game and the care put into it, I wish more people would play it and there were less "quitters" when things go wrong, I believe that if they return to monthly big balance patches they can make things right again.

      • In defense of people getting angry, Riot is not on a great track record right now for balance changes. TF/Fizz dominated the meta for at least a month and a half, alongside Aphelios, before finally getting brought into line (though they did well with the TF/Fizz nerfs, since the deck is still playable by those who are dedicated to it). But when they nerfed Aphelios the first time, it was not enough - and when they nerfed him the second time, it was way too much. 

        Then immediately after the next big expansion, we have the Watcher show up and push out essentially every other viable control-ish strategy in the game, and after a couple weeks, we had Nasus/Thresh arrive as a major powerhouse of a deck (though I have no idea how to classify it ... aggro/midrange/combo/tempo?). Nasus/Thresh got a couple of nerfs, but immediately got replacement cards as well, so the nerfs kinda didn't matter, and nothing was done about Watcher combo at all in any form (which still remains true to this moment).

        Then we enter a new expansion with a blatantly overpowered deck on day 1 that basically built itself, give or take 5-6 cards. And then Riot saying it was fine and didn't need nerfs.

        Then coming up to the "big balance patch" that only happens every 2 months and them doing essentially nothing that mattered much in it.

        So, it wasn't just the non-patch that made people angry. It was also a lot of mis-management that led up to that patch as well.

  • Yeeeeeep ^

  • I think that Garen Taric is a decent Taric list right now. It uses the well known Taric Golden Aegis combo that not only levels Taric up on the spot if you can support an ally with it but also allows you together with Garen to take that many extra attacks that even a slighly buffed Sparklefly or The Fangs can cause serious trouble for the opponent.

    The deck is pretty much a midrange deck and has with the likes of Out Of The Way a decent way to go late (making the Taric invicibility permanent)

    Irelia Azir is despite this deck having potentially large lifesteal units to leech from the blades a bad matchup but many aggro lists and also many control lists have trouble dealing with lifestealing units that attack way more often than they should.