Hearthstone
Two The Point - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Submitted 3 years, 6 months ago by
ShadowsOfSense
Competition Theme: Two The Point
I'll keep things brief - so should you!
- You must create a card with two or less lines of card text
- Short and simple is the name of the game this week - but make sure we still understand what your card does!
JFK is asking us to bring our simplest cards to the table this week - but simple doesn't have to mean boring!
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
- Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 24 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, May 29 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, May 29 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, May 30 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, May 30 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, May 31 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.
Discussion Thread Rules
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Competition Theme: Two The Point
I'll keep things brief - so should you!
JFK is asking us to bring our simplest cards to the table this week - but simple doesn't have to mean boring!
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
Welcome to the site!
Always the Totem that everyone always wanted to summon anyway besides the occasional Wrath of Air Totem (which can no longer summon, RIP).
I'm interested to see how this comp goes since it's all about simplicity.
Similar to Witchwood Piper, only related to stats instead of Cost. Could be a tutor for Hir'eek, the Bat, Gral, the Shark, Lynessa Sunsorrow, Darkmoon Rabbit, etc.
The game takes you to the starting hand screen with the drawn cards. You choose to keep or replace any number of them like you do with your opening hand.
I'm gonna be upfront. I used this card to win a comp with the same prompt in Hearthpwn post split. Not sure if reusing it is alright, but I also doubt I'll be able to come up with something better 😂
It's relatively cheap removal that can be suboptimal in certain scenarios, like against Taunts or Deathrattles that spawn tokens.
Here's my first idea for this week:
It's very similar to the card I won competition 2.1 with, but the art is just so fitting for the effect. The flavor is about a Squire who is too lazy to fetch his Paladin's weapon the ordinary way and resorts to magic instead. Nice way to tutor Ceremonial Maul or Underlight Angling Rod and it was even possible to play those on curve when Scholomance came out because First Day of School was at 0 Mana back then. The card only gets better with Hammer of the Naaru and Libram of Judgment added to the pool. Could also fetch you Val'anyr in wild.
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Here are two cards I already had made:
Draining Imp works just like normal fatigue. If you run out of cards later in the game, you will start taking fatigue from wherever you left off. I am not sure about the stats and I also have to change the watermark. But first I want to know if people the the ability is good.
High Justice Grimstone is a legendary reward you would get from the Blackrock Mountain adventure. I used it in a different comp a while ago, except it was a 3/3 then. I am very proud of the card both in terms of flavor and design. I feel like it fits with the design of other legendaries at the time; vanilla stats with a unique, but simple effect. And since it is from an adventure players will be guaranteed to have other legendary minions in their collection by the time they unlock him.
Carrion, my wayward grub.
I love the concept of utilizing the mulligan mechanic! Great idea!
My opinions: I feel like the high mana cost and lack of immediate board impact would lead this card to strictly be in combo / control. What do you think about making it smaller with a less powerful Mulligan where it could see more general impact?
Some early feedback.
My main issue is that you chose a slightly weird wording to make the text fit in two lines, but most people won't care/notice. I would still rate the card 5 stars besides this.
Maybe the art I used two weeks ago would be better, dunno.
I agree with Longshadow that it is probably a bit weak. I think it should be fine at 7 mana, though.
That said, he is busted AF. Having vanilla stats on a cycle is very strong, but considering you're pulling off Legendaries, I'd honestly reduce him to a 3/3 or even a 3/2.
My fear with such simple comps is always that my card is boring but here we go.
I'll boop you
I was trying not to blatantly power creep cards like Overflow or Valdris Felgorge, but I guess we're at that point in the game where those cards are too weak :/
My feedback:
I think it might be more appealing to be able to choose any basic totem. Currently, I'm not sure that its enough of an upside to run, and some people might not read it as an upside. I've tried "Your Hero Power summons a Totem of your choice." and that fit within 2 lines without changes, so there aren't any text issues.
The only change I would make is to cut the second line of text, as cards these days just say draw ~, instead of draw ~ from your deck.
I like them both. Draining Imp is an intersting Flame Imp variant, and High Justice Grimstone is both fitting for the character and is elegant.
Feedback time.
I have mentioned before that I quite like this card. I was originally concerned that the flavor wouldn't be very obvious without voicelines, but Grumpymonk seemed to catch onto it quite fine, so it seems that won't be an issue. For the sake of consistency, I do agree that it could be just "Spellburst: Draw a weapon." and it would even fit naturally on only one line of text.
I have personally always wished that Team 5 made some type of weapon support for Paladin, so I like it for that as well.
Draining Imp seems OP to me. It is a 1 mana 3/3 and the downside seems inconsequential to me as it's delayed, very slow to grow, and can easily be stopped.
High Justice Grimstone is indeed very flavorful and he's very faithful to how he appears in Hearthstone as is, but I am slightly concerned about the card's tutoring power since it's able to very easily draw several powerful win-condition effects without needing to change your deckbuilding very much, if at all. Some people might also be put off by the card's inherent P2W aspect of the card, which was definitely more-so the case during the days of Blackrock Mountain.
Thanks for all your feedback! Just to save me some points in the voting: I have actually checked the wording and Scholomance still used the "from your deck" phrase in Double Jump, so I'll leave my card as it is for consistency.
Will add feedback first thing tomorrow morning (roughly 12 hours from now).
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Well, it's been a while.
I feel it OK, nothing fancy here, I know it's a powercreep on Wild Growth, but I still don't find it overpowered.
Papa Nurgle wants to share his gifts.
I'm interested to see how hard I can push a controlling poisonous minion for hunter (Also I was disappointed with FitB's lack of Wyverns!):
Theres a high ceiling here in that you kill two major threats with this guy - and the fail case is still dealing an extra 3 damage to the enemy hero while posing a threat to their minions. Question is, is that pushing the power level too much?
Feedback:
@Demonxz95 Earthwarder looks like a solid submission. Not much else to say.
@linkblade91 A nice design. As others have said, putting "total" in there might make it clearer, but i dont think thats necessary, hearthstone tends to cut alot of those corners these days anyway.
@grumpymonk A really cool design - I think its clear how this works, and everyones familiar with mulligans so you're good to go. I dont think its really powercreep either, Valdris Felgorge is the closest card, and for 1 extra mana +3/+2 on a lategame legendary seems fine.
@Wailor A neat idea, and I'm not too concerned about reusing designs from other sites. I would like to this this card with more warlock flavour - I'm not really sure at the moment why it's a warlock card over say a Mage card that has historical "Time magic" effects - An infinite dragonflight art/name could fix that of course.
@anchorm4n A nice clean design, balance is right - I'd be a little concerned about this in a standard with Libram of Judgment.
@KANSAS Draining Imp is a bit strong as compared to Flame Imp, fatigue simply doesnt matter to the decks that would want to use it. If it said "instead of drawing" i think it would be the right level. Grimstone is a solid card, though a bit boring imo. Run with the draining imp idea and tinker a bit is my suggestion.
@BasilAnguis I like the design and think it's got a good balance. The art is a bit too non-hearthstone and shouldnt be too hard to find a hearthstone dragon art that fits, otherwise is ready to submit.
Feedback: I must say I really love this week's theme and your cards. Simplicity is one of the key advantages of HS and building a competition around that was genious. Thanks, JFK!
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Since some people didn't like the art ( :[ ) and simplicity of my card, here's a new idea:
Well, 2 variations on the same idea. What do you guys think? This better than Take Flight?
@Arkasaur 3 damage doesn't make much sense with poisonous, when 1 is enough. And having a poisonous card that's meant to go face is also unprecedented and a bit counterintuitive with the mechanics. Look at Vilebrood Skitterer for balance comparisons also, so it's not too big of a powercreep.
@Fedrion Nice and balanced, though this makes me feel bad for Wild Growth once more. maybe pump the heal to 5, so we can have some Lucentbark synergy maybe?
I'll boop you
Thanks for the feedback guys!
I was tinkering with it a little and find it more flavorful in this iteration.
It's a ritual in the end, you get the benefits after the ritual. And adding 1 more health restored isn't a big deal.
The only thing left would be the wording. I find it more solid in the second instance, but I'm not sure.
Papa Nurgle wants to share his gifts.
I usually refrain from posting in the discussion thread, but I have a general question: "What is the purpose of the description field on the submission form?"
I used it to repeat the card text, but should something else be entered instead, like card flavor text or perhaps even card motivation text? I would like to know, because if I keep using it wrongly, I will enter each competition with a handicap/penalty that I am unaware of.
It seems High Justice Grimstone is more popular. I reduced the stats to 3/2 to balance it, and I also adjusted the wording.
@anchorm4n, "Draw a Legendary minion from your deck" doesn't fit unless I shrink the text (which is probably cheating). So I have to either choose from one of these two wordings, or make a new card.
I'll give feedback later today.
Carrion, my wayward grub.
I think that giving some card flavor (Not necessarily flavor text, just a little "why the card is like this"), and a little reasoning on how you can use this card its what that field is intended for.
If not, well, you're not the only one that was handicapped lol
Papa Nurgle wants to share his gifts.
"Warder" is actually correct here. A "warder" is another word for a guard of some type, and to "ward" something can be used as a way of saying to protect or guard something. This is enforced on the card as summoning Stoneclaw Totem, which protects things and is also the representative of earth out of the original 4 Hero Power Totems.
You actually aren't the first person to point out that "will always" is not proper wording here. Truth be told, I'm not quite sure what the best wording to use here is. I haven't really been able to find anything better.
@Fedrion: I understand your train of thought, I've done something similar in that competition that made us design effects that trigger next turn. But this week is about having 2 lines of text max and so your current version doesn't work. :/
@KANSAS: I feared as much. I've tinkered a bit on Hearthcards and you get it into two lines if you set the font size to -5 and end the first line with "Legendary". I don't know where the DQ line is drawn when it comes to altering font size, but for my eyes this looks okay. If you choose to ignore my little nitpicking issue, I'd definitely go with the original wording.
@Demon: Thanks for the explanation. Regarding the text, why don't you simply phrase it in the present tense? "Your Hero Power always summons Stoneclaw Totem."
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
There is a technical problem with this text which is the fact that despite having less characters overall, this exact wording is harder to fit into 2 lines of text because of the specific line "summons Stoneclaw Totem" as opposed to "summon Stoneclaw Totem" which takes up more space on one line and forces it into another line. This is actually something I'm finding out after I already made the card with the wording it has now, which makes the process moving forward a bit more difficult to navigate around.
It's a case of a weird wording problem, which is one reason why prompts based on specific card texts are usually avoided.
Honestly, I think tinkering with the font size shouldn't be an immediate reason for a DQ as long as you don't go out of the window with it. I mean you have to compensate for a single letter, that should be done by going -1 or -2 and won't probably be noticed at all if people don't know it from the start. I've tried out alternate wording for KANSAS' card and it still looked okay at -4. We could also ask Shadows but I'm all for not asking questions in cases like this.
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
I used the Hourglass watermark to simulate that it belongs to an expansion where all classes have time-based cards (just like all classes got Demons in Outlands). The card also has a bit of Warlock flavor in that it is suposed to make the minion die of old age (Tempus Fugit means one day you're young and before you realise, you're old AF).
I understand this can be a bit of a stretch (basing the flavor on an expansion that doesn't exist lol), so I made a Priest version. Warlock tends to have more removal with drawbacks than Priest and the gameplay of a Zoo class is more interesting with this effect, but maybe the extra flavor makes up for it.
I do agree with this. The current wording actually already has text size reduced. It's currently at -2, but it works because it looks natural with the way the text on the game is usually presented. There is a problem with reducing the card text too much in that it can come off as natural and an attempt to force a card into the prompt where it wouldn't otherwise belong.
Alternatively, "can only" will make the text work while still appearing natural, but my hesitancy to use this wording stems from the fact that "can only" could psychologically make the effect sound like a downside even if the effect itself is still exactly the same.
Feedback
In any case, both cards could use some improvement in the artwork department (not that they are bad arts, but the style doesn't fit Hearthstone)
I think the text should probably read: "Restore X Health. Gain an empty Mana Crystal." This will hopefully fit in two lines.
Wow, that's next level depth of design and the reason why I like to compete with you veterans so much: I'm learning a lot.
I will tinker some more with your text tomorrow, but maybe just cutting the "always" might be an acceptable solution. It isn't really necessary, even if the text sounds better with than without that word. "Always" is also very rarely used in HS so far. "Your Hero Power summons Stoneclaw Totem."... Hmmmm.
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Here's Tournament Fixer with two changes: the art is from Wailor's suggestion, and I included the word "total" in there to help eliminate confusion. No text-size adjustments were necessary, thankfully.
Edit: Should it be a 4/3/3 like Witchwood Piper? I'm wondering if the stats are too low, meaning you're most likely to pull another copy of Tournament Fixer before anything else. At 3/3 you could tutor for larger things, like Zilliax or something.
I'll try to work on some feedback after I finished up something IRL.
Got two ideas for this comp:
Feedback for everyone's latest card:
linkblade91: Looks good! It's basically Call to Adventure, but for stats and the buff is now on a stick.
Wailor: I like Tempus Fugit more flavor-wise.
KANSAS: I think the second wording works best. Not sure if the ability to tutor like that would make he card too strong.
Fedrion: Why not just make it 'Gain an empty Mana Crystal'? Balance-wise, it looks fine.
BasilAnguis: I really like the Rare version for some reason. You could call the card 'Rare Miner' or something similar. Maybe even make it from other classes.
Arkasaur: Like the flavor. Seems balanced compared to the Rogue plant. Rarity should probably be bigger.
BasilAnguis: I actually think this is a bit strong. A lot of Dragons are BIG, so giving them Rush means it can kill a lot of stuff. Not to mention Dragon synergy. But I also feel making it cost 2 would make it near unplayable.
anchorm4n: Balance is good, but flavor is really off. He doesn't look lazy, and nothing about the effect says it's lazy either.
grumpymonk: This is an interesting one! No way of knowing how strong the ability to mulligan is.
Demonxz95: This can be REALLY annoying! But the balance is probably fine.
More feedback:
I think its fair to increase the cost and stats if you don't want it to draw itself, but I don't think it makes much of a difference if you leave it as is. I like it how flavorfully fits Rastakhan's flavor and power level lol.
Feedback:
Nirast - The interaction between Stealth + Taunt is there for a reason, but ultimately I would never choose to lean into it unless you had a really good purpose behind it. Boastful Assassin doesn't have that. I like Hibernating Rockbeast a lot, though.
Wailor - Roar of Time has to compete with Time Rip in Descent of Dragons, so I wouldn't place it there personally. I've wavered in both directions on this one, but I think you should stick to your guns and leave it as a Warlock card.
KANSAS - I would stay with the second iteration, leaving off "from your deck". Not much else to say about this card that I haven't said before.
Fedrion - Your latest versions use a third line of text, which would get you disqualified. Better fix that!
BasilAnguis - It's neat to unearth "ancient artifacts" (i.e: weapons from the past), and it would be interesting to see how the Rogue benefits from other class Legendary weapons (finally a home for Dragon Soul? lol). I would go with the weapon version, and maybe make it a 2/2/2 or maybe even 2/3/2 (because you still have to Combo).
Arkasaur - I will echo what the others have said, and remark on how "Poisonous" and "going face" are at odds with one another. The 3 damage is overkill if you use it on a minion, whereas using it on the enemy hero seems like a major misstep and waste of potential removal. It's different, to be sure, and I love the art, but the ultimate goal of this card seems to be strained.
anchorm4n - Paladin really could use more weapon-synergies (to go with its 1000 other synergies lel). I like the card: it's simple (which makes sense for a Common), but with a lot of potential use-cases. Good work :)
grumpymonk - This seems really cool, but I don't know how powerful it is. Four cards with semi-control over what you draw is a lot, but it's also an 8-mana "do nothing" otherwise. Hopefully it's fine. You could definitely win with this, IMO.
Demonxz95 - I will echo the sentiments that "will always" sounds weird, versus something like "only summons". Beyond that, it seems good-to-go.
Feedback later, maybe
EDIT: Already a card LMAAAAAAO
Make The Cow King an alternate Warrior skin plz
There seems to be more activity in this comp than the last few. That's pretty good!
More feedback.
I have already mentioned before about reducing the text size too much on the second version (in which, "Weapon" also should not be capitalized), which is why prompts like this are usually avoided in the first place.
That said, I do also have a problem with the first version which is that Discovering a card based on being Rare doesn't really narrow the pool in a meaningful way. While you may know what cards you'll be able to get and which ones you can't, there isn't really anything you can try to grab from the pool. I also don't like putting "from the past" on a Common or Rare card. Perhaps we might see it on an Epic one day, but as a Common or Rare, it very much takes away from the spectacle of Toki, Time Tinker.
And one last note, but that is definitely not a Kobold. It looks more like a humanoid raptor person.
I still stand by all the things I said about the card before, but I do think it's better as a 3/2.
The phrasing "Draw a Legendary from your deck" feels incomplete and could come off as deliberately skimping on the rules to fit the card into the competition. While I think it's kinda cool that it can draw non-minions now, there is the chronological problem in that Legendary non-minion cards did not exist during Blackrock Mountain. This aspect would only really become meaningful in The Boomsday Project (as Quests start in your hand anyway). Minion should also not be capitalized on the second version as the word is only capitalized when it's at the start of a sentence.
I do kinda like Boastful Assassin. It's flavorful and it feels like a proper dual-class card. I do believe we will eventually see a Stealth + Taunt card in the game one day, although I will agree that the general weirdness of combining the two mechanics might rub people the wrong way.
Hibernating Rockbeast is pretty good.
This is literally Vilespine Slayer on steroids :)
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@Demonxz95 Any thoughts on how to improve the feeling of deliberacy? Or what more generally makes a card feel deliberate?
I can't speak for Demon, of course, but I believe the gist is similar to what I was getting at with my review of your card. Every card should have a distinct purpose: "Why would I play this card? To do (X)." Your card has two different answers to the question, answers that are in conflict with one another. It can be neat to have varying use-cases, but "go face for damage!" and "remove a minion via Poisonous!" are not looking to achieve the same thing.
To use Demon's phrasing, Trampling Rhino has a deliberate use-case: "smash a minion, and deal the excess to face." It wants to remove a minion and deal face damage, like your card, but the Rhino is an "and" while yours is a mutually-exclusive "or". The Rhino knows what it wants to do, while your card does not.
...hopefully that made sense lol. Might be overthinking it. Demon might be able to explain better.
Basically what I meant by "deliberacy" is when every piece of card feels like it was specifically put together to make the card rather than just putting a bunch of random pieces together. Admittedly, this is in many respects harder to avoid with very simple Common cards and there are probably several upon several existing cards that you could apply this line of logic to as well. Pack filler Common cards in general are prone to this since it's very easy to just slap whatever effect you want on a random body with any artwork and call it a day.
A source of this specific card feeling this way does also come from what Link said about the card attempting to fill two completely antithetical purposes. Obviously, the Poisonous and the damage is meant to be used as a pseudo-Assassinate on a body that can possibly take another minion out by itself, but the option of dealing very specifically 3 damage to something including face goes against this since the fact that it deals 3 damage as opposed to 1 won't matter when the Poisonous effect will kill it anyway, or when you use it to hit face in which case you're not really using the effect combination for its intended purpose as well as the fact that playing it for face damage also just makes the card feel very weak.
Hopefully you can understand what I mean since translating my thoughts into words is not always my strong suit.
I'll boop you
Thanks for the laugh, really cool description! :D
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
@Demonxz95 @linkblade91 Thanks for the indepth feedback, and I take your point. I'm left in a bit of a sticky situation then. Changing it to something like "Battlecry:Destroy a minion." also gets rid of the interesting aspect of the design (Choosing when to prioritise removal vs. pressure), and also doesnt fit on two lines without text-size changes. I do have a backup card if you think that aspect of the design is unsalvagable (for this prompt at least):
Possibly needs to go to 3 mana - comparing to Holy Light / Healing Touch. But still would require deck building restrictions to get it to be consistently better than those.
Sorry for the late feedback:
grumpymonk, I like the idea of making her cheaper and reducing the draw to 3 cards. The effect is cool, but she is probably too slow to be played.
anchorm4n, The card looks fine, I don't have much to say about it except that people may not like the idea of giving paladin another cheap minion that tutors something.
BasilAnguis, The first one is definitely better. The wording on the second one feels a little odd to read. Balance wise it is kinda bland, but the flavor it's super cool and that's mostly what matters for these competitions.
Fedrion, Your card doesn't work since it has 3 lines of text. Just say "Gain an empty mana crystal" to shorten the wording. I also think you could get away with making it a rare.
Arkasaur, I love it, but I agree that 3 mana is probably fair.
Wailor, It probably works better as a priest card with the time flavor. I think it's balanced at 4 mana, but if I am the minority then you can ignore me.
Linkblade91, I like it as a 3 mana 2/2, but I would rather it draw the lowest health or lowest attack to make it simpler.
Nirast, Boastful Assassin is an interesting concept, but hard to balance since the two keywords have anti-synergy with each other. Hibernating Rockbeast is a much cooler card, though I would make it a rare or maybe an epic.
DestroyerR, Yeah . . .
Carrion, my wayward grub.
I would gladly remind everyone that there are only 10 hours left to submit.
I hope that my post won't be marked as spam, so here goes a bit of unnecessary text, maybe it has something to do with the length of the post.
When the turtle meets a rabbit a true seagul takes place. Flying through the shadesof broccoli, he announces a great combination of multiple earth invaders.
Furthermore, the scamander shines reflecting the red sun.
Ok
Good luck to everyone with the voting!
Edit: ...except me, who forgot to submit on time and only now realized it >_>
Transparency report looks like a tie (both with exactly 3.4444...), but only my card is shown at the competition page. Not sure if or how tiebreaking is done, but MathU should also be shown at the least.
Only showing one winning card in a tie has always been the way that it works, but the Card Design Conversation will acknowledge the tie and both winning people will be able to share their ideas for next week's comp.
Congrats to MathU and Arkasaur!
This was my favorite competition this season, so many cool cards :)
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com