Hearthstone
The Way-Too-Early-Nerf Thread
Submitted 5 years, 4 months ago by
YJHS2000
It's that time. The meta is far from settled, there will likely be no actual nerfs for weeks, but salt is in the air. What nerfs would you like to see at this overly premature time?
Here's my top 5. Feel free to disagree or add your own:
Paladin: Tip the Scales: Summon 7 Murlocs from your deck. Cost cannot be lowered.
Paladin: Emperor Wraps: Summon a 2/2 copy of a friendly Reborn minion.
Druid: Ossirian Tear: Passive Hero Power Your Choose One cards have both effects combined this turn. (Cost 2 mana)
Shaman: Heart of Vir'naal: Your next Battlecry triggers twice this turn. (cost lowered to 1)
Warrior: Dr. Boom, Mad Genius: Battlecry: For the rest of the game, your Mechs have Rush.
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It's that time. The meta is far from settled, there will likely be no actual nerfs for weeks, but salt is in the air. What nerfs would you like to see at this overly premature time?
Here's my top 5. Feel free to disagree or add your own:
Paladin: Tip the Scales: Summon 7 Murlocs from your deck. Cost cannot be lowered.
Paladin: Emperor Wraps: Summon a 2/2 copy of a friendly Reborn minion.
Druid: Ossirian Tear: Passive Hero Power Your Choose One cards have both effects combined this turn. (Cost 2 mana)
Shaman: Heart of Vir'naal: Your next Battlecry triggers twice this turn. (cost lowered to 1)
Warrior: Dr. Boom, Mad Genius: Battlecry: For the rest of the game, your Mechs have Rush.
Communism is just a red herring
I don't think any cards need to be nerfed right now, it's still too early to be able to tell if any changes would actually improve the metagame.
Gosh dang it, cards bad.
Warrior:
-Dr. Boom, Mad Genius Battlecry: For the rest of the game, your first mech played has Rush. Armour hero power lowered to 5.
-Brawl 6 mana
Lets be really I am sick of Control Warrior, but I can definitely see this happen. At the same time I can see them touching either Mountain Giant or Conjurers. As for your suggestions I think they will do something about Tip the Scales but it might have to do with Prismatic Lens Instead
Tip the Scales will never happen because Blizzard doesn't do nerfs that basically implement "exceptions to the rule" only to nuke a certain combo. If anything they'll nuke Prismatic Lens. No idea why that card was printed in the first place when all it was ever going to do was enable dumb highrolling BS like this.
Also Quest Pally doesn't need nerfs whatsoever. It's the best Warrior hardcounter out there but against any other deck it's mostly average. Any aggressive deck (or Mage in general) can just run it down before it gets anywhere...also people still refuse to run silence despite Doomsayer running amok.
Druid Quest is massively overrated and needs no nerfs whatsoever. There's a reason why it hasn't cracked the 50% winrate mark on HSreplay when pretty much every other new archetype is doing well.
Shaman Quest is the same. Pretty low winrate for a deck made out to be the next Quest Rogue. If anything they'll end up nerfing it in a few months once people have figured out how to actually build a working deck instead of just making it a value generating lackey spammer with no real win condition.
Boom will get nerfed 100%....either him or literally every other card in Warrior's arsenal (about time they did something about Brawl)
also you didn't mention Conjurer's Calling and Pocket Galaxy which leads me to believe your priorities are a bit mixed up.
I tried having fun once.
It was awful.
Mountain Giant is actually alright and makes for some pretty cool deckbuilding option in classes that aren't mage. The problem is that Calling basically punishes you for not being able to instakill an 8/8 on turn 3/4...and then punishes you further for not being able to kill two 8/8s on turn 4/5.
Calling is basically just cheating, and Pocket Galaxy makes the whole thing even worse (although it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if Calling never existed in the first place)
I tried having fun once.
It was awful.
Tip the scales could maybe summon 5 murlocs only. This way you don‘t rely entirely on AoE. Nomi and Zephrys are delaid aswell. This would probably kill the deck but i don’t mind...
The quests don’t seem op to me. Not nerf-level anyways.
Kibler made a great vid about Boom on Omnislash. He got a pretty good point. The rush aspect is a pretty big part of the flavor but the combination of everything is just to much. Omega devestator is a crazy card for instance. Armor gain is op aswell. 7 is a lot! People played healbot for 8 health back in the days.... It would need at least 2 nerfs to dethrone warriors at this point. Control wise, they are 2 tiers above anything else
I personally like conjurers on it‘s own. The twinspell aspect is crutial for rerolls, the option to use it on enemy minions allows next level play etc. Things get ugly because of Giants and Pocketgalaxy. Plus it‘s hard to punish mages for slow early game. Kibler proposed to hof the giants and i‘m on his side on this one.
Winner winner chicken dinner
Are you really salty about quest druid, paladin and shaman? The warrior nerf is too much as well.
If I had to guess:
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is getting nerfed in some fashion. It seems like removing the Armor hero power and reducing the armor Boom gives makes sense
Some manner of Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Conjurer's Calling will be nerfed. Maybe Luna's to 6 and Conj to 4.
Early/Emergency Hall of Fame Candidates: Brawl, Mountain Giant, Divine Spirit/Inner Fire (I doubt DS/IF will be hit right now since they basically built the expac around it.)
I can't think of a nerf that makes any sense for Murloc Paladin, which is okay, because I'm not convinced yet that the deck needs it. Maybe you make Lens cost 5.
EDIT: Oh I like the summon 5 murlocs thing.
Other than maybe Tip the Scales, all the other cards/powers I listed are un-counterable. Once the quest is done or Boom is played, the game is changed forever, with no counter, which makes you feel helpless as an opponent, especially considering how easy some of these quests are. It was the reason people hated the KFT heroes so much, so I'm sad Blizzard decided to repeat with these quests. The old quests (Rogue notwithstanding) were sufficiently difficult that you didn't feel bad if your opponent managed to get it done.
I guess I don't care about the mage highrolls because it seems a little easier to counter than the Tip the scales, but that might just be me.
Communism is just a red herring
My predictions:
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius loses rush on mechs. Either this or armor reduction, but I think it'll be hit quite hard due to the complaints about hero cards.
Brawl to HOF. They've given warrior so much removal recently, this would be a good time to do it.
Tip the Scales to 5 murlocs, or Prismatic Lens to 5/6 mana. High rolling bullshit, I don't see this combo lasting. Hitting the number of murlocs would be a better nerf so that they can't use the highlander cards so easily.
Conjurer's Calling to 4, maybe 5 mana. Delaying multiple early huge minions by a turn or two should make it a lot more manageable.
maybe Tip the Scales should be like Myras - summon all the murlocs from your deck - so it is a one time thing that burns all the extra murlocs - of course the down side is nomi is coming in quicker but at worse opponents need to clear board only twice.
Or prismatic lense is draw a minion and a 1 mana spell and switch their costs..
I feel a change to the mage class, and in general. Evolve effects and conjurers calling effects should only be affected by the actual cost of the minion.
you cheat out a giant turn 4, you get 4cost minions from conjurer. You use evolve or mutate on the 7 cost rush shaman card, you get whatever it cost when played. Same as sea giant.
This makes it harder to cheat out and snowball on minions of this type.
To preface this, I don't think it's been long enough yet to start swinging the nerf bat. That being said, if the meta is still like this in ~2-3 weeks these are the changes I would like to see:
Conjurer's Calling: Up to 4 mana.
Luna's Pocket Galaxy: Up to 6 mana.
Prismatic Lens: Down to 3 Mana. Change text to "Draw 2 cards. Swap their Costs."
Magic Carpet: Stats down to 1/4.
Omega Devastator & Tomb Warden: Remove mech tag.
Corrupt the Waters: Increase requirement to 7 Battlecry cards.
T5 isn't going to nerf so many highlighted legendaries, especially from their newest set. Nerfing a bunch of expensive cards does not equal players wanting to spend as much money on said cards.
The paladin quest nerf is also really dumb. It makes the reward go from powerful to very underwhelming. Making copies of only reborn minions is nowhere near a solid win condition.
Personally I don't see why these midrange strats get so much hate when aggro and control do equally stupid things in their own way. Aggro is able to cheese out immense amounts of damage early on and control is able to remove a ton of things with a single removal card. Each playstyle needs to be able to do something dumb if the other playstyles are equally overtuned. Also, as should be important to point out, you never can nerf one deck without making another deck a problem. Mage is a hard counter to control warrior. You nerf mage all you end up with is huge amounts of complaints about warrior. Nerfs are a double-edged sword.
As to CC specifically I think that it allowing 'Big' strategies for mage is what makes it playable. I see no world where a CC that summoned only minions you paid for as a card that would ever be competitively played. CC would essentially become a 3 mana "Heal one minion to full health and summon a random low to midrange costed minion." That sounds pretty terrible in mage if you ask me.
The fact that dr boom has yet to get makes me think they won’t nerf it
Gets to legend then plays memes.
Rogue > all
I really like this Nerf rather than raising the cost to 5 or 6 like others have suggested. It doesn't make the card completely unplayable, accidentally nerfing every Paladin deck that wants to draw cards.
lol, you just destroyed all those decks. Why should they be nerfed?
The meta settles and on hsreplay there are almost no decks with a higher winrate than 61-62%. And I think this is where Blizz wants to go.
I think every class has a deck currently that can make it to legend.
The rest is RNG and Rock/Paper/Scissors
Never trust people who smile constantly. They’re either selling something or are not very bright.
Only 2 cards need a nerf for standard, and that is Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, and Conjurer's Calling
All the other cards you suggest are not a problem at all, in fact in standard, I see no problems with any of the new cards.
Tip the Scales is sucky to play against, but I don't think it will be sticking around. The meta needs time to answer to it.
Emperor Wraps is fine.
Ossirian Tear is fine.
Heart of Vir'naal is fine.
Now if we are talking Wild...
Quartermaster needs to be nerfed to 6 mana so it can't be played in Odd Paladin. That won't be enough to kill off the deck entirely, but it will greatly help reduce the win rate of the king of wild. It has been on the top for too long, and it's time to shake it up.
I'm concerned about Flame Ward in Aluneth Mage, but I'm not ready to call for a nerf. Just concerned that card is removing the main weakness of that deck, which was no board clear against aggro decks. Now that deck has an answer to everything.
And something needs to be changed with the graveyard mechanic. But that is never going to happen as we are just going to be waiting for "more" data forever.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I hope they don't nuke Dr. Boom, maybe just slightly tweak the rush mechanic and some of the hero power options.
Conjurer's Calling is just a problem. Dropping a Mountain Giant on turn 4-5 then multiplying it with this card is just too frustrating to deal with for non-aggro decks. And it's a twinspell, making it doubly frustrating. Maybe the mana cost will be upped, or the twinspell mechanic removed.
Conjurer's Calling is just a problem. Dropping a Mountain Giant on turn 4-5 then multiplying it with this card is just too frustrating to deal with for non-aggro decks. And it's a twinspell, making it doubly frustrating. Maybe the mana cost will be upped, or the twinspell mechanic removed.
Agreed. I was pretty astounded that there were no understatted 8-drops released for uldum, as well as there being 2 broken 10-drops introduced. Imo, this would have solved the problem of conjurer's calling being a consistently busted play, without having to meddle with the card itself.
May all your legendaries be golden.
Murloc paladin is fine. You know what's a great spell to pull off of prismatic lens?
Loses to any deck with more than 2 board clears as well.
If they find a smart way to nerf Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, without killing the card, they can also nerf Conjurer's Calling.
The move would provide more room for other Control decks to emerge on par with Warrior, Mage could still play the anti-Control role, while being worse at highrolling against faster decks.
Nobody loses too much, but the meta would be slightly less polarised.
As a Wild player, I would also call for a nerf to Ancient Mysteries and Totemic Surge (notice Even Shaman is my main climbing deck). By (1) mana each. They'd still be very powerful in Standard, provided enough Secret/Totem support, while not being insane in Wild.
PS: and Barnes to (6) ofc, how could i forget...
Well , the Card that deserves a nerf the most (at least in my oppinion) is Dr. Boom, Mad Genius - i personaly am not sure how you could nerf him withouth destroying the Flavour - maybe just Remove the "Your Mechs have Rush" tag - could be enough
Also i think Omega Devastator could see a Nerf depending what happens with Dr. Boom ...
Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Conjurer's Calling could also see a Nerf but maybe only one of them.
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
I love what Kibler proposed for [Hearthstone Card (Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) Not Found] - Change Battlecry to: "Battlecry: Mechs in your hand and deck gain Rush" and remove +7 Armor Hero power.
That way he still will be 7 mana 7/7. But changing into it will makes you more vulnerable (no more armour gain) and only Mechs you actually have in deck will have rush. That way all those discovered ones will not have Rush and would be much less problem. To benefit from this Battlecry you would have to actually put Mechs into deck.
Also [Hearthstone Card (Luna's Pocket Galaxy) Not Found] and [Hearthstone Card (Conjurer's Calling) Not Found] could be nerfed by one mana.
Luna played on 4 with coin is absurd. And 4 Mana Conjurer's Calling is much less oppressive (harder to play twinspell, no chance to be generated from Magic Trick.
The change about Rush is smart indeed, it doesn't remove reactive power entirely, it just diminishes it. However, I'm not sure they are going to remove the armor hero power. I'm not even sure it will be necessary, after basically halving the Rush power of the card.
Either way i doubt they will touch Luna's Pocket Galaxy after recently buffing it. Also, however powerful one mana buff is, you can only lose against it if you do not put enough pressure to the Mage. With Conjuring nerfed, the mage will have much less swing power, and that should be enough to keep Mage in check, within the meta, despite Galaxy staying a strong highroll card.
They could fix Dr. Boom by removing the armour ability and making the mech drop random instead of a discovery effect. this would stop the constant stream of omega devastators you inevitably face late game.
As he noted though, the tricky part with that nerf is that it completely wrecks micro-squad. So in this case, not only have you nerfed the rush aspect, but you've trashed the hero power by removing the Blast Shield and effectively removing Micro-Squad.
I hate Boom as much as anyone, but even that seems extreme to me.
You can easy change Micro-Squad to summon 3 Rush 1/1 mechs.
Right - but at that point they're virtually doing a complete redesign of the card, and that's not how they do things. They'd just HOF it instead.
I think the best counter for the mage problem are bad outcomes when you use it on Mountain Giant - a 12 Mana 3/3 would be very helpful - every mana slot has bad minions which keep random summonings in check - we need a bad 12-drop and mage is no problem anymore
That sounds interesting - alltough i think a 12 Mana 3/3 should have at least a could battlecry or something otherwise it would be just a dead card. Could still be good if you play it for the Battlecry but if you get it from Conjurers the Cry wouldn't trigger and therefor the nerf idea with a bad 12 drop could get a chance to work!
But i like the idea! but a simple Mana Nerf also could be enough
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
this is a very good idea, I never understood why it doesn't work like tha
I guess Pocket Galaxy buff was a mistake by Blizzard. Compare it to the old Quest reward from Druid, it's basically the same, but it's way worse, because it's a minion and cannot be reduced easily as Pocket and second you need to fulfill the hard condition of the quest first, before you can play the reward.
So if Pocket Galaxy buff is fine, then the old Druid quest is sh-t and deserves a buff as well. But Blizzard won't admitt that they did a mistake with their buff, because it was their first try to buff cards ... .
To Dr. Boom Mad Genious: I disagree that Dr. Boom deserves a nerf like that, but I would like to see that omega mech nerfed by simply changing his art and removing the mech tag, then Boom would be fine, but he would never get more than 2 omega bs cards again.
Edit: But I could be wrong and maybe Boom feels only strong in Standard, because due to limited card pool like DK Rexxar before the rotation and his lifesteal minions, while in Wild this card is totally fine.
So, immediate reactive nerfs to SoU cards:
Untapped Potential: Completion Requirement increased by 1 to 5 - Honestly, this is less about balance, and more about making the match up less damn boring. I'm not saying it's OP, but this change might force decks running it to look at a different strategy than just "don't do anything for 4 turns".
Other than SoU cards:
Conjurer's Calling - Cost changed to (5). - Is this a brutal nerf? Kind of, but I've been playing around with an Even mage in wild, and this is not a card you want to give it access to.
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius - Hero Power is now Big Red Button - Press a button. - Keep everything, but blind the Hero Power, so you have no idea which one you get when you hit the button. Unlikely to be implemented because of new players, but thematic, and a nerf at the same time. This would necessitate the "deal 3 damage HP to be a random target, but I can live with that.
For the sake of Wild:
Eternal Servitude: - Changed to 0 Mana - Discover a minion that died this game. Spend mana equal to its cost and summon it. (Attempting to cast this when you can't afford any minions in the pool will fizzle, like Shadow Visions if you have no spells in your deck)
You know what is funny? I play the skelesaurus rex encounter in the LoE adventure a lot for fun and he gives both players a card each turn that is reduced to 0. If you evolve or conjurer a minion that was reduced that way, it will consider th eminion a 0-cost for that purpose, despite being on board. So the mechanic is THERE but for some reason not in the main game
I think the real problem with [Hearthstone Card (Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) Not Found] is the 7 armour for 2 mana. If blizz remove this hero power will not kill the card.
Why would you nerf the Druid quest? Deck isn’t that good. Neither is Shaman. You say you chose these nerfs because the quest rewards can’t be countered, but each of these decks are hard-countered by at least two other decks (even control warrior). At this point, I’d be surprised to see a Dr. Boom, Mad Genius nerf (something for which I clamored last expansion) because Quest Pally and Highlander Hunter have kept CW in check.
People overhyping cards very early on again. It's easy to forget we've had metas where certain new decks were overplayed in the early parts of a meta just for better refined/more optimized or even sleeper decks mostly kick them out of the meta down the road. When people see any deck sliding into the new temporary tier 1 status the pitchforks come out
It's only a problem in your head. Dr. 7 is totally fine for me, only that omega card that get multiply times discovered by Boom is really annoying, because of that thing Warrior had almost infinite removals.
But maybe i am also wrong, because someone above said that Questpally with his value of eggs beats warrior. So again, Boom is fine.
I second that - this idea is pretty good !
And i just want to mention again - i cannot wait to see Dr. Boom, Mad Genius get nerfed :)
Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!
Luna's Pocket Galaxy is going to get either reverted back to 7 mana, or nerfed to 6 mana. Should just be 7 mana, but I don't think Blizz is going to admit defeat with the buff they made.
And here we are again, some time ago was Rogue, until they nerf the class to the ground, AGAIN!
In two months will be Druid or some other stuff.
STOP ASKING NERFS, it's only ruining our hard won collections, losing dust every 2 or 3 months.
Ask for BUFFS!!!
because buffs will totally fix Warrior and Mage
I guess if we bring back Deathstalker Rexxar for every class it would fix the Warrior probelm...and then we buff Big game Hunter to 2-mana , because that has never been a problem.
This is how dynamic game design works you dunce. Nerfs are necessary because you can't predict the meta game from the moment you design a card, so adjustments have to be made as time goes on
I tried having fun once.
It was awful.
I doN't know about that, Blizzard has been much more flexible recently. They reverted Specialist format and the arena changes because they realized they weren't working (Arena is debateable)
IN fact, the buffs in the frist place are an admission of failure.
I wouldn't be surprised if they revert Galaxy and just say "we thought this wouldn't be a problem, but it turns out it was, so no more of that"
I tried having fun once.
It was awful.
yes, the problem with warrior is having the best hero card when not all other classes have heroes. Go to wild, and see where it stands against other heroes. They should have continued to print hero cards.
And about mage, remember vanish, what would mages do against it?
And if adjustments are needed, why do you continue to ask to tone down cards, tone them up, or reverse other stupid nerfs and HoF's!
Ah yes, because the KotFT meta was extremely healthy where the majority of the decks relied on a single card and if they did not draw that in time, they'd lose. Much like warrior with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius right now. Let's just add more of those cards and warp the meta around them once again. Fantastic idea.
Tell us then, how would you tone down warrior, for instance, by reverting nerfs/HoFs and/or buffing cards?
I really loved the KotFT meta in reality! Not tone warrior down, tone others up? You are playing what, aggro? Give more tools to other classes, aggro and quest paladin are good counters to warriors. Give more aggro tools to other classes.I think vanish is a mistake being all of famed, it would counter mage perfectly. And this is always the same, you nerf a class others appear, and more complaints, and more cards made useless. GREAT buff the one on Luna's, no one used it and now is a great card. Hopefully they had done before with Moorabi, and gave tools to freeze shaman. But it's a dead card forever. You like having useless cards printed?
You didn't answer my question. Aggro (be it paladin or any other deck, I couldn't tell from your wording) is not a counter to warrior. What are you even on about...
Luna's Pocket Galaxy is now the Barnes of standard. Mages having it on curve skyrockets their winrate to absurd amounts. This is not a healthy thing. Then again, seeing how you enjoyed the death knight meta shows you don't really know what makes a meta good or healthy to begin with.
You don't honestly expect that out of the 135 cards released per expansion, the majority of them will see competitive play, right? That is impossible to achieve and if you think otherwise you're most likely very naive or uninformed.
Edit: You also seem to be missing another crucial part. If a certain card/deck gets nerfed, it often gives way for new cards and deck archetypes to see play. As those decks were most likely being hard countered by the deck that got nerfed.
Maybe you're right. I'm not used to them being more open and flexible lately. I guess we will see.
So, after a month of nerfs you will be here complaining again for whatever deck gets a positive winrate again, right. And it will all be ok, with some 4k dust wasted on our colections but you will be happily complaining about the next "oh no the devil" card.
Whatever, keep wasting resources and money, blizzard likes it! every nerf, more gold and packs are thrown to the garbage, so, more money for them.
hell,ask for 5 expansions a year, that would keep a healthy meta....
Have fun, if in EU send messgae, I would like you to try some of my wild decks and see the game for the fun of it,not only the HOLY meta
Ah, the cop out response. I didn't expect anything else, really. Enjoy complaining about Blizzard actually putting in some effort for once in trying to fix unbalanced decks because you can't play your broken stuff anymore. Peace.
Maybe not way-too-early after all! Announcement coming this week!
Communism is just a red herring
I really hope they finally break Control Warrior's legs and piss on the corpse
I tried having fun once.
It was awful.
HOF Brawl. Now.
Communism is just a red herring
Early HoF Dr. Boom, Mad Genius.
I've been playing Reno Mage since there's no way LPG survives this, and man, that deck is so dirty. So glad that it'll be gone soon.
that or nerf its cost or effect (make it always have the highest attack minion survive so there's actual counterplay for midrange decks)
but yeah, I could see them straight up HoF it since it clashes with Warrior's established class identity (plenty of removal, but with a condition. All of their other AoEs need some sort of activator except for Brawl, which makes all other AoEs that serve a similar role [read Deadly Arsenal] redundant)
I tried having fun once.
It was awful.
The best suggestions I read und I think will be true are the following:
early HOF of Inner Fire, Dr. Boom Hero Card and Mountain Giant
nerf to 2 mana for Priests Cleric (falls in line with the leaked nerf to Extra Arms)
Pocket Galaxy up to 6 mana (I think with the leaked nerf to conjurer's calling this will lead to a clear decline in mages playrate)
Prismatic Lens up to 6 mana
Nice, so Priests basic and classic set will be twice as worst as the number 8 :
Here's the thing about Prismatic Lens - the card itself is fine, essentially a 4 Mana Arcane Intellect, but with a chance to make high-cost cards cheaper. The problem is PL consistently pulling TTS. A good change, as JoeyJojo48 suggested, would be to make Prismatic Lens draw any 2 cards and swap their costs and maybe bring it down to 3 Mana. That way it won't become completely unplayable in every deck.
Among others, I think the Shaman quest needs to be addressed. The payoff is too good for how easy it is to complete, given the existence of lackeys and lackey generators. Playing against Quest Shaman feels like you have a chance....until they complete the quest, and then it's just a matter of delaying the inevitable.
worst community ever
Yup, I think Quest Shaman needs to be adressed too. I'm playing a jade version of it in wild and the hero power is even more absurd there.
Why do so many people want to nerf so many cards that are nowhere near problematic? Do people want zero powerful cards in the game? With this logic everything except vanilla minions would have to be nerfed.
People want something new, Blizzard comes with something new, deck defining quest, powerful hero cards, powerful Legendary spells and people complain these cards are too good and dont want them in the game. Then people complain about the game being stale.
The problem with these too-powerful cards is that the games become super swingy and devolve into a contest of who draws their OP card first. As someone who played this game before there was a "standard," I miss a lot of the back-and-forth minion play the used to occur. Games felt tighter and more uncertain. Now, once a certain card is played or quest completed, the game is pretty much over. Old insane combos like priest inner fire or Warlock faceless>Leeroy or freeze mage used to take an entire game to set up (maybe old druid Savage roar being the exception), but now, draw the right two cards, and on turn 5 or 6 the game is over.
Communism is just a red herring
Agreed, but I dont think there is much of a way to bring the game back to the minion combat. Most of the current decks are built around these super swingy cards, or around one specific. I personally think LPG is fine and should not be nerfed. LPG on 5 is extremely powerful, but so is Secretkeeper in Secret Hunter on 1 or having Myras UE ready for turn 5-7 or even having Zephrys to pull you out of a situation your deck and your class is not supposed to get out of.
I personally dont like the paper, rock, scissors matchups so much more than these “draw THE card” and win. I have absolutely no idea how to fix the game. Im not enjoying the current meta and Im not enjoying the current decks.
They need to nerf the idea that each class will always have the same strenghts/ weaknesses (remember the hot mess that was?)
They also need to nerf the idea of an evergreen set. Using tools from older sets to make a rotating set could be more interesting even in a class identity perpective, allowing them to make expansions using different sets so they can toy more with said class identities. Or, even better, instead of older cards, have a much bigger classic set which constantly rotates among itself. That way, they can make one year centered around mana cheating while sending of Mountain Giant for that year, for example.
Oh, and they also need to nerf how expensive the game is. I've done every single daily quest for over 5 years while having spent around 150€ and my collection is very lacking, almost to a comical extent. But hey, we all know Activision is a very not-greedy company, right? [/s]
Rating cards on coolness factor rather than predicting power because I like screwing up rating averages (and because I suck at predicting real power levels, but we'll ignore that LUL)
Wins per class (2/6/22): DH-197; Druid-996; Hunter-91«60; Mage-1056; Paladin-1126; Priest-746; Rogue-961; Shaman-1095; Warlock-871; Warrior-906
Please downvote my OP some more. I'd like to get to -50.
Communism is just a red herring
Man you REALLY love you some mountain giant lol! Even coming from me--whose favorite deck has always been control warlock (RIP)--it seems crazy to say the punishment from a 4 mana (actual worth 12 mana) 8/8 is conjurers calling.
The punishment is the 4 mana 8/8. It definitely has some cool design implications and rewards a hand-loaded style of play, but CC is considerably weaker if used on a normal cost minion instead of a cheated out powerhouse that rewards you with a higher cost minion than what you paid for.
Where we do agree, however, is Luna is straight busted at 5 mana. What more, it makes mountain giant even more disgusting because--again--it makes the card 99% of the time a free 8/8 that rewards you with two 12-mana minions. No part of that equation is fair, CC or not.
Mmmm. I am not sure about the fair part here. Let me try to break this down in a logical way.
1. Cards can be buffed in lots of ways, one is increasing their stats, one is to reduce their mana. Lots of cards in HS do this. This mechanism is not unfair in itself.
2. Really strong legendary cards can buff not one card, but change the rest of the game. This is also not unfair since it is a legendary. You need to draw it, and most of the time the legendary has a high mana cost.
3. The idea of deck-building is to combine cards in such a way they create the maximal impact. This is the core of HS. Combining different cards to get optimal results. Again, this is not unfair, this is what HS is.
So now we look at [Hearthstone Card (Luna's Pocket Galaxy[Hearthstone Card (. At 7 mana, the card was not played in any competitive deck, since to be meaningful, you would have to put a lot of high mana minions in your deck, and then face the risk of drawing those in your first 6 turns insta losing you the game, or put less big minions in your deck and then risk to spend 7 mana for not a lot of minions reduced and also not a lot of turns to enjoy this since you also need to draw those reduced stuff so you also need some draw engines at the ready (like Luna for instance), and against aggro, if you survive until 7 you would win anyway even with a bunch of Angry Chickens.
Personally I have tried to make this card work before the nerf and it was so cool when I could pull of a Star Aligner combo with it. That did not happen a lot of course but a lot more than I expected. So I was super happy when it got buffed to 5 mana! My god. Then suddenly everybody started playing it and 0-mana mountain giants that got the conjure call treatment where all over the place. Mages were happy! Even without a fireball or a pyroblast. This could lead to some juicy swing turns. Still I believe the proper way to nerf this was to nerf the mountain giant conjure call combo. They should have printed another 12-mana minion with horrible stats but a nice battle-cry or something, so the result would be less predictable and strong. And now with warrior and priest being nerfed, I expect to only find hunterstone, roguestone, murladins and questoshamans on the ladder.
Personally I will just remove the dust on that old star aligner deck and see how it goes. Hell maybe even try to make it into a reno deck, although that crazy moment when your opponent just attacked some giant and you can then play 2 star aligners in a row for 2 mana…total bliss. And fair!!
) Not Found]) Not Found]So, just checking, what is the OP "we must nerf this" deck of the week?
I crafted two more and wanted to see if the choices were ok.
Let me get it right, before the nerfs, control was awful, but now you feel that tingle inside loosing to aggro, and you want to nerf everything below 3 mana, right?
Yeah, this time I'm just messing with you, so that people realise that nerfs is just a waste of dust, because, guess what, meta will never be perfect, and in the meantime, class identity or whatever bs blizzard throws in your eyes is gone. Spells and combo in rogues, ramp in druid, whatever they thought pali was, but now it's mummies... And I hate priest more than any other class, but that nerf on extra arms, even I think it is just uncalled for.
I have a golden Sahket Sapper and never used it it seems super OP, maybe nerf that one?
Be sure to keep those daily nerf requests going, thanks!
FWIW, in the last two days I've seen:
- A lot of murloc paladin
- A lot of murloc, quest, and overload shaman
- A lot of quest druid
- No mage...not a single one.
- Some warrior, a lot of them aggro, but also still control & bomb
- Warlock Zoo
- Tempo Rogue
- Highlander Hunter
- Quest Paladin
So a pretty wide array of things are still being tried out.
Most of these decks felt fine to play against. Nothing seemed way over powered yet. Murloc Paladin is still a shit deck that can highroll. A lot of the aggro decks feel reasonable. But it's pretty early.
I think the mage players all have moved to murloc paladin and/or reno hunter and/or control warrior. And they dusted all their mage cards in the process. I think they have had enough after mana wyrm, no more jaina, galaxy back to unplayable, and a nerf to the auto-include conjurer's calling. Why would you fool around with mage if you can vomit 7 murlocs on 5 instead.
Are you capable of actually providing a coherent response to my second to last post in this thread or are you going to continue going around in circles without providing any meaningful insight whatsoever? In case of the latter I'll just start ignoring you from now on, all good.
There is a difference between relative powerlevel spikes within a meta, and something that threatens variety...
Nerfs are not all the same BS.
Ofc nerfs are not always right, but that's another story.
Nerfs hit (or should hit) what is powerful and so frequent as to warp the meta around them, impairing the viability of other decks, that should presumably be there in the devs' plans. That's much more precise than nerfs hitting top tier decks. Not all top tier decks deserve nerfs.
The "there will always be a new t1" story is a false argument, because it is a simplification of what is the scope of nerfs.
Quest Paladin is a great counter to warrior, it was already before the nerfs!
Highrolling Murloc Palli is also a counter to almost everything, then again, this is and always be "drawstone", since it is a card game.
Luna's was exactly like Keleseth, if you got it, you win the game, it's a highroll. And Barnes is not the Priest problem in wild, is the insane amount of resurrect they have, never having great viable decks in standard, but accumulating resurrect mechanics in wild for years.
Yes, I loved the DK cards, and as it seems, they are proved great ones, hence the complaints about warrior. Every class should have a DK or Jaraxxus in standard. Fun cards, with swing effects.
Yes I do expect a card printed to be playable, is that too much to ask? If not, don't print them, release less but with quality. Not understanding your point here. You go to a restaurant, it is expectable that everything in the menu is possible to eat? Or will restaurants now provide rocks or plastic toys in the menu for you NOT TO EAT, but just being there, in the menu, because somehow it looks cool...?!
I agree that new cards and decks see play after nerfs, it's a change, there's an adaptation, obviously. But was it that swingy?
Less control warrior but I still find some, I see some Mages but it's the unfortunate people who invested all their dust in a 19k deck and now can't get refunds enough to craft one of the other strong decks.
Highlander hunter, was already being played successfully.
All the murlocs and quest shamans and pallis also.
Priests, oh well, go to wild and be hated there, no place for them in standard, although the quest has potential. Again, a great card no one asks for support that will disappear because blizz is nerfing the other good ones.
What else, zoolock, it's the only way to go for warlock, after loosing core cards and mechanics also because of hof and nerfs. Also cool to refer that discard was never properly taken in account and synergies were implemented too late. Now it's the lackey era, but with no proper lackey generation. If only they printed more good cards instead of rubbish useless ones (are you seeing a pattern here?).
Druids, that at the beginning of the expansion seemed unstopable but now they fall down before or after the midgame, still, fun expensive decks, or good old tokens because of course the ramp identity of druids went down the drain, with nerfs.
Rogues, that unbelievably still manage to survive after every identity defining trait has been obliterated. Aggro/tempo archetypes that kill you before turn 7 or they are dead. Same decks as before, not having much more play.
So, after the nerfs, you have people playing basically the same decks, with the best one disappearing and people rotating to the previously existing ones, until one stands out, and then we are back to the beginning.
One important fact, I din't played the nerfed decks, warrior was boring to play, and mage needed a lot of expensive cards.
Even so, I think and will stand for my belief that nerfs do worse than good, and we are downgrading instead of upgrading.
Yes, the power creep theory, I don't buy it! Power creep away, find new mechanics, make others work properly, DEVELOP, don't downgrade. especially don't downgrade our resources constantly.
Have you realised the game more than tripled it's cost in 2 years? What if no new players get into it? We all need the f2p players for the game to be viable, or it will turn into artifact. Of the persons that got me to play this, not one still plays it, because of the huge cost and constant nerfs, being impossible to stabilize without buying bundles. Few rotated to physical tcg's because and I quote "in here, you have physical cards and they can't nerf them" and the others just went to other games.
TL/DR:
Nerfs just increase the cost of the game, changes in meta are temporary, eventually other decks will feel OP and the cycle will never end, with players being milked out of resources and stuck with useless cards.
Oh the shock, not one month later, and people are asking priest to be nerfed.
See, no matter how much you downvote and disagree, I was right, this is a no ending circle. There will always be a better deck and people will whine about it.
Ahhhhh,it $uck$ being right!
Nope.
Combo Priest is not the only t1 deck (Highlander Hunter comes close), but people complain only of Combo Priest.
That implies your reasoning is incomplete. There's more to that, and it's about HOW a deck is t1, HOW it wins, etc. That decides what warrants a nerf or not. Proof of this is the latest article about Iksar on Divine Spirit.
Finally, there are complaints and complaints ofc. The fact that people always complain of something does NOT imply that ALL complaints are wrong.
So no, you were not right. And the fact you self-assert being right does not make you right.
next month I'll return here, and the next, and the next... In a year, when the new "nerf this" post hits, I'll have all this thread to prove my point, over, and over, and over. See you then, have fun!
If that wasn't clear enough, that won't prove your point. I don't know how else to explain it.
Anyway, whatever. Cheers!
Priest is one of the worst "best decks" we've ever had.
this basically sums up all of my thoughts and opinions about the priest class in one sentence.
Carrion, my wayward grub.