Aggro a bit too efficient

Seems as though aggro is going to dominate this game for the time being. Most aggro decks are able to fill the board by turn 3 or 4 and removal is few and typically at a higher mana cost. If you want that removal when you need it you have to skip a turn or 2 to build up your spell mana and by then you have probably taken too much damage. Not wanting to ruin aggro entirely I think some mana costs changes are needed. For instance Shadow isles can put out 7/6 worth of power turn 2 with cursed keeper and ravenous butcher. There are a few more but shadow seems a bit over powered at the moment.

Thoughts?

I personally think 20 hp is too low when your unit HP stat follows Hearthstone rules, even if your unit blocking follows Magic rules.

Personally I think the only reason Magic gets away with 20 hp is the fact that pretty much every creature effectively has Regenerate.  And healing is incredibly common on top of that, and you can overheal.  Where as in Runeterra that is not the case.

But that's just my opinion :/

Shadow Isles is definitely over the top.

Basically drafted a Constructed version of Sacrifice deck for an Expedition and steamrolled to 7 wins.

Butcher needs to be at 1-mana. It's a card that would be absolutely bonkers in Hearthstone and it's not different here....welll either that or nerfing the Cursed Keeper spawn.

It also doesn't help that Shadow Isles have access to very effective removal options. Generally the entire region is just a bit too versatile. I like the idea that there's different ways to build, but right now it's a bit too much.

Commander Ledros alone is kind of ridiculous, basically a guaranteed win condition for both Control and aggro.

Then you also have the whole Elusive crap that feels really bad to play against if you don't have direct damage spells (that don't immmediately get countered by Deny or Twin Disciplines).

Overall I feel like the situation will improve when people get more cards and are able to refine their decks, as well as with new expansions that give new tools.

I think the reason aggro is so good is because, basically, everything has haste and vigilance.

Quote From Thorn

Thoughts?

You should expect aggro to be the dominant strategy for the first month or two for any CCG.  First off: aggro is always the most budget friendly offering to a new player at any stage of the game's life: the cards tend to be more common and the deckbuilding is very direct.  Second, not many people have the cards to pull off combo or control yet, and even if they did, those decks usually need some refinement and customization for the current meta.  Finally: there's a positive feedback loop right now where aggro finishes games quicker -> gets more XP -> gets better cards -> gets even more wins per hour. 

Give it some time; I think things will settle down once the community discovers some good tempo and control archetypes.

I completely agree Hearthstone was the same way although not quite as rampant. They do have a lot of interesting choices they can make with how expansive the champion and spell pool in League is though so the future is really bright for this game. 

Well I am quite certain they will be nerfing elusives (and/or Deny) as well as Hecarim if that's what you mean, you can't expect a game that is in open beta to be balanced can you? But the game isn't that out of line really the balance team did a great job balancing the game to a sort of healthy state where you never feel hopeless as long as your deck is functional, and you can have certain techs to improve your chances of course..

I find the game to be well balanced for how new it is.

Nah, I knew it would have its issues just wanted to see what other people thought. I also agree elusive needs to be upped in mana cost along with deny and Hecarim either needs to summon less or be weaker.

While there are definitely cards that are too strong, I find that this I part of the charm of a CCG and I hope the devs don't overdo it with nerfs or every deck will end up looking bland and samey. It's fine if the first set only has 3-5 top tier decks. With more cards out when the second set is releasedt, they will have room to tweak and add more answers to problematic cards.

On Tuesday I started playing Ranked and based on the cards I have right now I settled on a Freljord-Ionia deck and I love it. Deny will need a tweak (most likely target spells that cost 5-6 or less, instead of an increased cost) but the deck performs fairly well against aggro. To be honest, I haven't encountered many aggro decks and I have been playing obsessively in the last 4 days. Perhaps they dominate the higher ranking, but on iron/bronze most decks I play against are mid-late focused. I have been trying to use a Draven deck, but I just can't figure out how to make it work efficiently.

Of the elusive cards, I think the most problematic is The Empyrean, as it is very difficult to remove, especially in a deck with Deny and Frostbite. The others, when not buffed, are destroyed by challengers, Culling Strike, and several removals.

I believe that most new players are trying to build a deck around dealing with all the possible threats they will encounter and don't build a deck that makes use of the strengths of the factions they have chosen. Playing with a single deck for a few days, instead of swapping decks every 2-3 matches, can help you identify its weaknesses and make the necessary adjustments.

Quote From KANSAS

I think the reason aggro is so good is because, basically, everything has haste and vigilance.

I understand what you mean, and I do suspect this makes balancing aggro harder than in other games, but I don't think it's entirely fair to describe everything as having haste.

Specifically, playing an ally is a slow-speed action, so your opponent always gets a chance to respond to that play so long as they have mana to do so.

Where I think aggro manages to pull ahead is less because they get to attack immediately and more because AOE tools are few and far between, and elusive aggro decks have access to Deny. This makes it easier for aggro decks to overcommit to the board without punishment. Everyone has to play a fairly board-centric early game, and the line between midrange and control is blurrier than in other CCGs

Quote From TriMay

I personally think 20 hp is too low when your unit HP stat follows Hearthstone rules, even if your unit blocking follows Magic rules.

Personally I think the only reason Magic gets away with 20 hp is the fact that pretty much every creature effectively has Regenerate.  And healing is incredibly common on top of that, and you can overheal.  Where as in Runeterra that is not the case.

But that's just my opinion :/

You do realize its only possible to attack every other turn and oponnents can also play spells there right?

Quote From Hellcopter

Quote From TriMay

I personally think 20 hp is too low when your unit HP stat follows Hearthstone rules, even if your unit blocking follows Magic rules.

Personally I think the only reason Magic gets away with 20 hp is the fact that pretty much every creature effectively has Regenerate.  And healing is incredibly common on top of that, and you can overheal.  Where as in Runeterra that is not the case.

But that's just my opinion :/

You do realize its only possible to attack every other turn and oponnents can also play spells there right?

Okay think about it this way
I had 1 mana to set up my first attack
You had 3 mana to set up your first attack
I had 5 mana to set up my next attack
You had 7 mana to set up your next attack :)
So yeah you attack "every other turn" but you also pretty much have an incredible amount of mana to set up those attacks, compared to Magic and Hearthstone where it's your 1 mana setup -> my 1 mana setup -> your 2 mana setup -> my 2 mana setup, your 3 -> my 3, etc.

And UNLIKE Magic and Hearthstone, you can attack with a unit you JUST played this turn.

To quote someone else

Quote From KANSAS

I think the reason aggro is so good is because, basically, everything has haste and vigilance.

Meanwhile elusive, on top of what Kansas had to say, is difficult to get rid of for a non-elusive deck (which is pretty much anything that doesn't play ionia in it...), yaknow, if your opponent can just Deny a lot of spells you got to kill it, or buff their elusive units health temporarily, or, just, yaknow, play more elusive units

The stat-lines gotta go down for aggro elusive cards or the nexus hp has gotta go up, in my opinion at least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

Butcher needs to be at 1-mana. It's a card that would be absolutely bonkers in Hearthstone and it's not different here....welll either that or nerfing the Cursed Keeper spawn.

I absolutely agree that Cursed Keeper does not need a 0-mana activator. People would still happily play it even if Glimpse and Vile Feast were the only ways to pop it yourself.

Butcher could even cost 2 mana, and people would still used it to kill Undying and Keeper and probably other Last Breath units as well.