I still disagree with you: 2 mana restore 5 and Discover a spell is at worst a side grade, but nowhere near a nerf.
Take Flash of Light and pre-nerf Holy Light: basically the same healing effect, but that card advantage is what pushes the former over the edge.
Even an overcosted Flash Heal would see play with a Discover effect attached to it, and given the remarkable amount of heal you'd get from it (5, 10 if you consider both copies) you don't really need more copies off Wandmaker.
Bumping Renew to restoring 5 Health is a straight up buff and we wouldn't want to see it, really.
It would be basically a Flash Heal with a Discover effect attached to it for just 1 mana, in a world where Palm Reading is a card and can consistently DiscoverRenew and discount your hand.
No thanks.
it would still be a nerf or at most a sidegrade, costing 2 even with bigger heal means wouldnt get it of wandmaker and doesnt cost 0 after 1 palm reading.
5hp would be comparable to flash of light but draw is usally better then discover (are ofc cases like a fatigue matcup^where discover is better) so it can heal 1more and priest is susposed too be better at healing.
Also flash heal only saw use for auchenei effect to be turned into 1 mana deal 5.
I really like the proposed nerfs. Getting Renew out of the Wandmaker pool will be a really big hit and a welcome one. Gibberling at 2 mana is something I think is fine, too. If Druid can go off 1 turn later, other classes have more time to find answers.
Instead of Apo I rather like to see a Sethekk nerf.
You cannot really compare Renew and Flash of Light: while both Priest and Paladin have healing as identity trait, Priest is obviously better at doing it and therefore has more ways to restore health. That is way Uther gets less (but rather powerful) healing cards.
Take Lightning Breath for example: straight up a broken AoE in any historical Dragon class, but less than decent in Shaman.
Bumping Renew to restoring 5 Health is a straight up buff and we wouldn't want to see it, really.
It would be basically a Flash Heal with a Discover effect attached to it for just 1 mana, in a world where Palm Reading is a card and can consistently DiscoverRenew and discount your hand.
Well, they are nerfing Token Druid, which is one of the most aggressive and swarmy decks in the format. Plus Control Priest is nerfed not because it's a control deck, but rather because it has so much randomness and card generation that other Control decks (Control Warrior) don't really stand a chance against it.
Moreover, just a few weeks ago Aggro and Secret Paladin got nerfed.
Its actually funny because the current meta, at least at the top anyway, is composed largely of priest, miracle rogue, doomhammer shaman, deathrattle and lifesteal dhunters, token druid, spell mage and control warrior. The fact of the matter is only shaman has any claim to being the most relevant aggro deck today, and even then in reality its really a midrange deck with Doomhammer doing most of the heavy lifting. Token druid is a combo deck, I may add, with wins and losses determined less by the 1-2-3s than getting an insurmountable board as early as possible.
Face hunter currently sucks, and will roll over to any control deck at present barring neerulock, and even then its a contentious matchup on whether the hunter gets his curve out on the first three turns.
The meta is currently more midrange than aggro, token druid is an inconsistent (but mostly infuriating) deck to go against, and at higher levels the deck to beat is most certainly priest. So if team5 decides that something needs trimming to either freshen the meta or preempt the next expansion (which is 1 month away), Im certainly not going to claim any conspiracy, certainly not with aggro in mind
The decks I meet most of the times are aggro elemental shaman, aggro hunter and aggro Gibberling druid.
Its actually funny because the current meta, at least at the top anyway, is composed largely of priest, miracle rogue, doomhammer shaman, deathrattle and lifesteal dhunters, token druid, spell mage and control warrior. The fact of the matter is only shaman has any claim to being the most relevant aggro deck today, and even then in reality its really a midrange deck with Doomhammer doing most of the heavy lifting. Token druid is a combo deck, I may add, with wins and losses determined less by the 1-2-3s than getting an insurmountable board as early as possible.
Face hunter currently sucks, and will roll over to any control deck at present barring neerulock, and even then its a contentious matchup on whether the hunter gets his curve out on the first three turns.
The meta is currently more midrange than aggro, token druid is an inconsistent (but mostly infuriating) deck to go against, and at higher levels the deck to beat is most certainly priest. So if team5 decides that something needs trimming to either freshen the meta or preempt the next expansion (which is 1 month away), Im certainly not going to claim any conspiracy, certainly not with aggro in mind
Honestly it makes me feel annoyed that if aggro decks have a hard time against something, that something must be stopped. So what if priest beast the shit out of face hunter or token druid? Not like they do anything against warlock auto-winning vs literally all control or slow decks. But noo, aggro is what most people play so aggro must always be king. God forbid we have a slow control meta at any point.
I totally agree with you. 2 mana Heal 3, discover a spell is awful. Paladin had a 2 mana spell, heal 4 and draw a card, and Priest should be better at healing than Paladin.
If they nerf the cost of Renew to 2, they have to make it heal 4/5. Otherwise, the card would never see play again, it would be omega awful, and lately they've been nerfing cards by little adjustments, they have been so cautious about it, not just: OK, LET'S DOUBLE THE COST OF RENEW AND LET'S DIVIDE THE STATS BUFF OF APO BY TWO.
Apotheosis is... really not OP. It's an overcosted buff with lifesteal and yes, it punishes aggro for leaving a big minion. Just like Arbor Up punishes a player for leaving druid a wide board. Just like Totemic Reflections punishes someone who leaves up a good totem against shaman.
And Samuro is still a legendary in a class that has very limited card draw. Priest in general has very unreliable access to good boardclears.
Unless all you play is aggro/midrange against priest and not play around large minions possibly getting lifesteal, I don't see how a card like this could inspire such hate.
It's... it's priest. The class that is good at healing. That's currently one of the main things it does?
especially if Priest ever gets an actual win condition.
You just quoted this though and it's pretty telling overall:
"if priest ever gets an actual win condition". Inherently this means that priest currently has no win condition other than value generation, correct? Meaning if you hit their healing/value generation you are taking away the only viable thing priest currently has to EVEN have a chance at winning. Therein lies the problem. No tools were given to help priests build a win condition, and now they are going to either hurt that matchup archetype, OR going to kill it completely with those changes.
Renew at 5 would be a straight up buff. At best it could be increased to 4 and even that won't be necessary. Nerfs are supposed to make a card worse, not just shift it around.
Apo is broken and needs to be gutted. Unconditional lifesteal + an attack buff pretty much means unchecked healing potential for priest. at +1/+2 you can still use it with big minions like Mutanus, but you might not want to run more than one in your deck and instead actually have to rely on more predictable heal cards.
NErfs aren't meant to weaken cards, they are meant to weaken decks. If a card needs to be killed for the deck to be more balanced then that's the way it has to be.
yeah make worse, not destroy it. which a straight up mana cost increase does
APO is good but not broken on its own (only broken thing in samuro ) and No card should ever be gutted.
Nerfs should weaken the cards, not warsong/starving buzzard them
Renew at 5 would be a straight up buff. At best it could be increased to 4 and even that won't be necessary. Nerfs are supposed to make a card worse, not just shift it around.
Apo is broken and needs to be gutted. Unconditional lifesteal + an attack buff pretty much means unchecked healing potential for priest. at +1/+2 you can still use it with big minions like Mutanus, but you might not want to run more than one in your deck and instead actually have to rely on more predictable heal cards.
NErfs aren't meant to weaken cards, they are meant to weaken decks. If a card needs to be killed for the deck to be more balanced then that's the way it has to be.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Also, orphan is about tribe, and Flamewreathed Faceless is tribeless as well.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
I still disagree with you: 2 mana restore 5 and Discover a spell is at worst a side grade, but nowhere near a nerf.
Take Flash of Light and pre-nerf Holy Light: basically the same healing effect, but that card advantage is what pushes the former over the edge.
Even an overcosted Flash Heal would see play with a Discover effect attached to it, and given the remarkable amount of heal you'd get from it (5, 10 if you consider both copies) you don't really need more copies off Wandmaker.
I may agree on 4, but 5 is definitely too much.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Good guess, but no. Doesn't fit the Faire angle I think.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
it would still be a nerf or at most a sidegrade, costing 2 even with bigger heal means wouldnt get it of wandmaker and doesnt cost 0 after 1 palm reading.
5hp would be comparable to flash of light but draw is usally better then discover (are ofc cases like a fatigue matcup^where discover is better) so it can heal 1more and priest is susposed too be better at healing.
Also flash heal only saw use for auchenei effect to be turned into 1 mana deal 5.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Agree on all three. Druid is kinda hard to nerf properly indeed, Priest is a bit a no-brainer with Renew and Apotheosis.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
I really like the proposed nerfs. Getting Renew out of the Wandmaker pool will be a really big hit and a welcome one. Gibberling at 2 mana is something I think is fine, too. If Druid can go off 1 turn later, other classes have more time to find answers.
Instead of Apo I rather like to see a Sethekk nerf.
New Neutral Minion - Spice Bread Baker
Warlock loves bread.
New Neutral Minion - Peasant
Priest will get something. Or any that combines this with that other minion that gives this +1 Health.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
You cannot really compare Renew and Flash of Light: while both Priest and Paladin have healing as identity trait, Priest is obviously better at doing it and therefore has more ways to restore health. That is way Uther gets less (but rather powerful) healing cards.
Take Lightning Breath for example: straight up a broken AoE in any historical Dragon class, but less than decent in Shaman.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Bumping Renew to restoring 5 Health is a straight up buff and we wouldn't want to see it, really.
It would be basically a Flash Heal with a Discover effect attached to it for just 1 mana, in a world where Palm Reading is a card and can consistently Discover Renew and discount your hand.
No thanks.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Well, they are nerfing Token Druid, which is one of the most aggressive and swarmy decks in the format. Plus Control Priest is nerfed not because it's a control deck, but rather because it has so much randomness and card generation that other Control decks (Control Warrior) don't really stand a chance against it.
Moreover, just a few weeks ago Aggro and Secret Paladin got nerfed.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Finally, Priest is getting thrown into the trash where it belongs
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
So low dust yield probably... meh
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
The decks I meet most of the times are aggro elemental shaman, aggro hunter and aggro Gibberling druid.
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Eerie Statue?
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Its actually funny because the current meta, at least at the top anyway, is composed largely of priest, miracle rogue, doomhammer shaman, deathrattle and lifesteal dhunters, token druid, spell mage and control warrior. The fact of the matter is only shaman has any claim to being the most relevant aggro deck today, and even then in reality its really a midrange deck with Doomhammer doing most of the heavy lifting. Token druid is a combo deck, I may add, with wins and losses determined less by the 1-2-3s than getting an insurmountable board as early as possible.
Face hunter currently sucks, and will roll over to any control deck at present barring neerulock, and even then its a contentious matchup on whether the hunter gets his curve out on the first three turns.
The meta is currently more midrange than aggro, token druid is an inconsistent (but mostly infuriating) deck to go against, and at higher levels the deck to beat is most certainly priest. So if team5 decides that something needs trimming to either freshen the meta or preempt the next expansion (which is 1 month away), Im certainly not going to claim any conspiracy, certainly not with aggro in mind
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Honestly it makes me feel annoyed that if aggro decks have a hard time against something, that something must be stopped. So what if priest beast the shit out of face hunter or token druid? Not like they do anything against warlock auto-winning vs literally all control or slow decks. But noo, aggro is what most people play so aggro must always be king. God forbid we have a slow control meta at any point.
Three Card Balance Changes Arrive in Hearthstone on July 15 - Druids and Priests Getting Nerfed
OK, I'm looking. The best priest deck is Tier 2.
Taunts
what hero power and item did u use?
Tools Of The Trade - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Good luck to our finalists; I thought I had a cool idea but I scored quite poorly :(
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
I totally agree with you. 2 mana Heal 3, discover a spell is awful. Paladin had a 2 mana spell, heal 4 and draw a card, and Priest should be better at healing than Paladin.
If they nerf the cost of Renew to 2, they have to make it heal 4/5. Otherwise, the card would never see play again, it would be omega awful, and lately they've been nerfing cards by little adjustments, they have been so cautious about it, not just: OK, LET'S DOUBLE THE COST OF RENEW AND LET'S DIVIDE THE STATS BUFF OF APO BY TWO.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Apotheosis is... really not OP. It's an overcosted buff with lifesteal and yes, it punishes aggro for leaving a big minion. Just like Arbor Up punishes a player for leaving druid a wide board. Just like Totemic Reflections punishes someone who leaves up a good totem against shaman.
And Samuro is still a legendary in a class that has very limited card draw. Priest in general has very unreliable access to good boardclears.
Unless all you play is aggro/midrange against priest and not play around large minions possibly getting lifesteal, I don't see how a card like this could inspire such hate.
It's... it's priest. The class that is good at healing. That's currently one of the main things it does?
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
You just quoted this though and it's pretty telling overall:
"if priest ever gets an actual win condition". Inherently this means that priest currently has no win condition other than value generation, correct? Meaning if you hit their healing/value generation you are taking away the only viable thing priest currently has to EVEN have a chance at winning. Therein lies the problem. No tools were given to help priests build a win condition, and now they are going to either hurt that matchup archetype, OR going to kill it completely with those changes.
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
yeah make worse, not destroy it. which a straight up mana cost increase does
APO is good but not broken on its own (only broken thing in samuro ) and No card should ever be gutted.
Nerfs should weaken the cards, not warsong/starving buzzard them
Hearthstone Gets Druid & Priest Balance Changes This Week - Our Thoughts on the Potential Cards
Renew at 5 would be a straight up buff. At best it could be increased to 4 and even that won't be necessary. Nerfs are supposed to make a card worse, not just shift it around.
Apo is broken and needs to be gutted. Unconditional lifesteal + an attack buff pretty much means unchecked healing potential for priest. at +1/+2 you can still use it with big minions like Mutanus, but you might not want to run more than one in your deck and instead actually have to rely on more predictable heal cards.
NErfs aren't meant to weaken cards, they are meant to weaken decks. If a card needs to be killed for the deck to be more balanced then that's the way it has to be.