Some nerfs suggested here seems a little too far, like Bladestorm and Boggspine Knuckles which isn't really problems on their own, especially bladestorm since its just so easy to play around it.
Evolve shaman is currently very strong, not merely because the weapon is more consistently drawn now, but because of Revolve, and mana cheating (again, why isn't Lightning Bloom on this list when its a greater problem than even overgrowth). Revolve can be defensive (removing buffed aggro boards), or offensive (used at 4 with the rabbits) but at its best it destroys aggro's board while giving you a decent advantage via cards like Mogu Fleshshaper. And that turn swing can happen as early as turn 4, which in most cases if you are unable to fully remove shaman's board by then they usually snowball on you hard. In my opinion, I expect the archetype to calm down a bit on rotation since both desert hare and fleshshaper will be gone. The knuckles are hard enough to equip as it is, and really doesn't need nerfing.
I'm honestly not really up in arms over warrior in general, though I think the ETC combo having no playaround is a little harsh considering how good warrior is at control. Of course, giving warrior one of the best cards in this expansion in Sword Eater may have something to do with why they're so good. Maybe bump this card by 1 mana would weaken warrior's defense but keep the deck viable? I think its perhaps the best, if we're nerfing it at all.
Most others are fair enough. Blade dance in especially can go crawl under a ditch and die. Team5 should start reviewing their own design for dhunter, because its starting to get to the point where they're practically capable of doing just about anything, from drawing cards, silences, to dealing with boards, to healing. Even taunts don't get a say against Illidan apparently. What's their weakness again?
I'll just copy paste a comment I made on Reddit: "Twin Slice is quite tricky to balance since DH has a lot of attack-related cards: making it cost 0 allows insta-procs of Battlefiend, Satyr Overseer and Glaivebound Adept; making it cost 1 allows big damage and great synergy with the likes of Bladed Lady, Blade Dance and [Hearthstone Card (Aldrachi Warbaldes) Not Found]."
Maybe your suggestion falls in the middle ground and is the most reasonable one, but I'm curious to see if and how the devs will solve the puzzle.
Armorsmith has been chilling as a good card since Classic, but was never close to problematic until the Skipper arrived. I personally wouldn't nerf the Skipper (as a midrange/control player I rarely care if the warrior gets a bunch of armour), but I certainly wouldn't be targeting Armorsmith.
I don't like any of these nerfs. The Demon Hunter Initiate cards cycle out in a few months anyway. Druid needs more help if anything. Warrior and Shaman just got back into the middle of the pack.
Twin Slice is going to be good as long as it is a cheap Twinspell; I think making it give only +1 attack for each slice keeps it playable but not auto-include in every DH list.
Blade Dance is one of the egregious cards to me for DH because there are so many ways to get ridiculously high attack for DH. I like the idea of changing it to be "Deal damage equal to your hero's Weapon to 3 random enemy minions." while keeping the mana cost the same. This change keeps the card as cheap removal, but requires weapon usage; moreover, it lets Team 5 experiment with a large attack "control" weapon at some point to have synergy with the card.
Shardshatter Mystic is definitely very strong, and I don't see why they power-crept on Duskbreaker, so it seems appropriate to make it a 4-mana 3/3, especially considering cards like Arcanosaur and, more recently, Fire Breather exist, which are obviously way worse than Shardshatter Mystic.
Mana-cheating only has potential to break the game, so I think nerfing Overgrowth to 5-mana is appropriate; it also gains new synergies in the process which would be cool and probably prevent the card from becoming unplayable. Maybe it should also draw 2 cards if you have 10 mana crystals?
I don't think Boggspine Knuckles is the problem, but rather the way the transform/evolve mechanic works. As many have suggested in the past, I think the evolve mechanic should be based on the mana-cost of the minion when it is played rather than what the card text is. Obviously, this method can complicate the coding of the game or in-game understanding, but it seems like using the green/redmodifiers for text that they already use for when a card's stats change would work in this context. I think this change makes transform/evolve higher skill while feeling less high-roll-y.
Bladestorm is definitely good, but not sure it warrants a nerf. It doesn't feel nearly as strong as other versatile board clears that have existed (e.g. Defile, Warpath), and it also doesn't feel horrible to play against.
As for Risky Skipper, I think changing its mana cost or its health makes the card unplayable. At 2 mana, it can't stop aggro and probably acts only as a weird combo card for armor. At 2 health, it can only stop the smallest of aggro boards and likely turns exclusively into a combo card similar to what happened with Bloodsworn Mercenary after its nerf. I believe the best change to the card that doesn't kill it is simply removing the Pirate tag. From a flavor standpoint, I hate this change, but from a competitive standpoint, it removes the abundant Pirate synergies in Warrior--specifically the targeted card draw--all while keeping the power of the card on the board.
In addition to these changes, I also think Libram Paladin is in dire need of changes. The problem with the package is not that it's strong, but that it is oppressive, infinite, versatile, and excessive. The package supports aggro, tempo, mid-range, control, and combo! If you want constant board buffs, Librams have you covered. If you want board clears, Librams have you covered. If you want defense, Librams have you covered. If you want tempo curve plays, Librams have you covered. The package desperately needs some kind of re-work, but I don't suspect we'll ever get it.
Control warrior is only good because it beats aggro demon hunter and they're the most prevalent deck out there, nerfing demon hunter to where less people play it means nerfing control warrior.
Not only cards must be considered but also deck standings. If you touch Soul Dh, you also have to do something about Warrior and Aggro DH, since they are best 3 decks, followed closely by HL Hunter.
Said that, DH beign continuously strong is also bad for the players perception of the meta. Blade dance is just supid, tho I'd would also suggest considering the change so it only hits 2 targets, as Zeddy said. Twinslice change was never good for me, I think it should have chenged to one of the pieces costing 0 and the other 1, still both giving only +1 attack. I think Aldrachi Warblades are also a problem, maybe make it more expensive or idk; you used to be able to race a face deck, but DH just has too much healing which is why Il'gynoth is also so frightening.
OTK decks are stupid imo, but Warrior's requires so many pieces and is very skill testing. Still, if it is here to stay, maybe change it in a future patch. Bladestorm is not great, I hesitate to run it now, any nerf to it would make it unplayable I think. I think Skipper is fine, Warrior should have a way to gain a lot of armor fast and the combo requires a lot of pieces. It also rotates soon.
Druid is not in a good place right now but Overgroth is still a problem.
Shaman deserves to shine a bit but if it just becomes dominat due to ohter nerfs, something should be done. It's a shame that only fast and highroll-y decks see play, control shaman is such an interesting deck.
Maybe some neutrals should be changed, too. For example, Voracious reader should maybe draw up to 2 or just be a 1/1/2.
I just got Myra's Unstable Empress in Duels by building a deck that shuffled cards in and eventually pulling Grand Empress Shek'zara. It may be worth noting to folks that it doesn't matter if you burn the cards you're drawing. I had a near full hand, discovered Plush Bear (I had six copies in the deck), drew the first, which drew a card, then the rest burned because my hand was full. Despite that, I still got the achievement.
Do the buckets actually work that way? I tried this by building DH around lifesteal and never got offered Il'gynoth a single time. Went like 7 or 8 rounds, I think.
We ll it worked for me pretty consistently with the said strategy. For ex. when I made different deck at the begining for warrior with random cards, it never offered me E.T.C., God of Metal. But when I tried to build a deck around rush minions, suddenly there was always a choice to pick him up from bucket, sooner or later, sometimes even twice. It´s worth the try.
As I wrote before, not sure about the Il'gynoth as I didn´t find a way to force him to my picks yet :/
I can see justification for any of the nerfs, they all don't need hit, but how does Paladin not get mentioned? Certainly there is something there that's annoying, powerful, and needs addressed.
Also, overgrowth and survival of the Fittest need it, and not just because I have golden copies. (I'm only afloat on dust right now because they nerfed evocation and I happened to open one of those in golden on day 1 of outland)
I like this potencial nerfs. I take it's only for standard, though I think wild need some serious nerfs. IMO raza needs to go back to HP costs 1.
It would be awesome if this posts could be joined by cards to buff to imagine what we could have imopoved (I don't really know which or how in this case)
Paladin is consistently one of the best classes but it always seems to dodge nerfs, including fam suggestions for nerfs. 4-mana goody two shields and a 1-mana increase to libram of hope and libram of wisdom would be very welcome right now
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
Some nerfs suggested here seems a little too far, like Bladestorm and Boggspine Knuckles which isn't really problems on their own, especially bladestorm since its just so easy to play around it.
Evolve shaman is currently very strong, not merely because the weapon is more consistently drawn now, but because of Revolve, and mana cheating (again, why isn't Lightning Bloom on this list when its a greater problem than even overgrowth). Revolve can be defensive (removing buffed aggro boards), or offensive (used at 4 with the rabbits) but at its best it destroys aggro's board while giving you a decent advantage via cards like Mogu Fleshshaper. And that turn swing can happen as early as turn 4, which in most cases if you are unable to fully remove shaman's board by then they usually snowball on you hard. In my opinion, I expect the archetype to calm down a bit on rotation since both desert hare and fleshshaper will be gone. The knuckles are hard enough to equip as it is, and really doesn't need nerfing.
I'm honestly not really up in arms over warrior in general, though I think the ETC combo having no playaround is a little harsh considering how good warrior is at control. Of course, giving warrior one of the best cards in this expansion in Sword Eater may have something to do with why they're so good. Maybe bump this card by 1 mana would weaken warrior's defense but keep the deck viable? I think its perhaps the best, if we're nerfing it at all.
Most others are fair enough. Blade dance in especially can go crawl under a ditch and die. Team5 should start reviewing their own design for dhunter, because its starting to get to the point where they're practically capable of doing just about anything, from drawing cards, silences, to dealing with boards, to healing. Even taunts don't get a say against Illidan apparently. What's their weakness again?
Blizzard is Giving Away Darkmoon Faire Bundles and Battle.net Balance on Twitter to Promote the Hearthstone World Championship
I kinda don't need it anymore, but I suppose pretty nice for F2P guys
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I think Libram Paladin has some sort of hard counter in classes that can easily transform minions.
The problem is that Shaman has just started being playable and Mage is in the trashcan right now.
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
I'll just copy paste a comment I made on Reddit: "Twin Slice is quite tricky to balance since DH has a lot of attack-related cards: making it cost 0 allows insta-procs of Battlefiend, Satyr Overseer and Glaivebound Adept; making it cost 1 allows big damage and great synergy with the likes of Bladed Lady, Blade Dance and [Hearthstone Card (Aldrachi Warbaldes) Not Found]."
Maybe your suggestion falls in the middle ground and is the most reasonable one, but I'm curious to see if and how the devs will solve the puzzle.
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
I think Bladestorm is weak tbh, especially in this meta where there is usually a 1 health minion on board in DH, Shaman, Hunter and Paladin.
Meanwhile Risky skipper is meta defining for Warrior. Nerfing it in any way will make Warrior crap imo.
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Armorsmith has been chilling as a good card since Classic, but was never close to problematic until the Skipper arrived. I personally wouldn't nerf the Skipper (as a midrange/control player I rarely care if the warrior gets a bunch of armour), but I certainly wouldn't be targeting Armorsmith.
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I don't like any of these nerfs. The Demon Hunter Initiate cards cycle out in a few months anyway. Druid needs more help if anything. Warrior and Shaman just got back into the middle of the pack.
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I still like my original suggestion to nerf Twin Slice. Make Twin Slice cost-1 and give +1. Have Second Slice cost-0 and give +1.
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Twin Slice is going to be good as long as it is a cheap Twinspell; I think making it give only +1 attack for each slice keeps it playable but not auto-include in every DH list.
Blade Dance is one of the egregious cards to me for DH because there are so many ways to get ridiculously high attack for DH. I like the idea of changing it to be "Deal damage equal to your hero's Weapon to 3 random enemy minions." while keeping the mana cost the same. This change keeps the card as cheap removal, but requires weapon usage; moreover, it lets Team 5 experiment with a large attack "control" weapon at some point to have synergy with the card.
Shardshatter Mystic is definitely very strong, and I don't see why they power-crept on Duskbreaker, so it seems appropriate to make it a 4-mana 3/3, especially considering cards like Arcanosaur and, more recently, Fire Breather exist, which are obviously way worse than Shardshatter Mystic.
Mana-cheating only has potential to break the game, so I think nerfing Overgrowth to 5-mana is appropriate; it also gains new synergies in the process which would be cool and probably prevent the card from becoming unplayable. Maybe it should also draw 2 cards if you have 10 mana crystals?
I don't think Boggspine Knuckles is the problem, but rather the way the transform/evolve mechanic works. As many have suggested in the past, I think the evolve mechanic should be based on the mana-cost of the minion when it is played rather than what the card text is. Obviously, this method can complicate the coding of the game or in-game understanding, but it seems like using the green/red modifiers for text that they already use for when a card's stats change would work in this context. I think this change makes transform/evolve higher skill while feeling less high-roll-y.
Bladestorm is definitely good, but not sure it warrants a nerf. It doesn't feel nearly as strong as other versatile board clears that have existed (e.g. Defile, Warpath), and it also doesn't feel horrible to play against.
As for Risky Skipper, I think changing its mana cost or its health makes the card unplayable. At 2 mana, it can't stop aggro and probably acts only as a weird combo card for armor. At 2 health, it can only stop the smallest of aggro boards and likely turns exclusively into a combo card similar to what happened with Bloodsworn Mercenary after its nerf. I believe the best change to the card that doesn't kill it is simply removing the Pirate tag. From a flavor standpoint, I hate this change, but from a competitive standpoint, it removes the abundant Pirate synergies in Warrior--specifically the targeted card draw--all while keeping the power of the card on the board.
In addition to these changes, I also think Libram Paladin is in dire need of changes. The problem with the package is not that it's strong, but that it is oppressive, infinite, versatile, and excessive. The package supports aggro, tempo, mid-range, control, and combo! If you want constant board buffs, Librams have you covered. If you want board clears, Librams have you covered. If you want defense, Librams have you covered. If you want tempo curve plays, Librams have you covered. The package desperately needs some kind of re-work, but I don't suspect we'll ever get it.
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Control warrior is only good because it beats aggro demon hunter and they're the most prevalent deck out there, nerfing demon hunter to where less people play it means nerfing control warrior.
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It's a spell
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
I see where you're coming from, but it looks like that Warrior and Demon Hunter are gathering all the attention from the pros.
I think Dragonbane is fine, just really good; on the other hand, I agree with your complaints about Phase Stalker and, especially, Voracious Reader.
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Missing Dragonbane, Phase Stalker and Verocious Reader here
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
Looks like someone read the last VS meta report.
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We just reported which cards the pros were talking about.
What is your personal opinion? Which Hunter/Paladin cards would you like to see changed?
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
Not only cards must be considered but also deck standings. If you touch Soul Dh, you also have to do something about Warrior and Aggro DH, since they are best 3 decks, followed closely by HL Hunter.
Said that, DH beign continuously strong is also bad for the players perception of the meta. Blade dance is just supid, tho I'd would also suggest considering the change so it only hits 2 targets, as Zeddy said. Twinslice change was never good for me, I think it should have chenged to one of the pieces costing 0 and the other 1, still both giving only +1 attack. I think Aldrachi Warblades are also a problem, maybe make it more expensive or idk; you used to be able to race a face deck, but DH just has too much healing which is why Il'gynoth is also so frightening.
OTK decks are stupid imo, but Warrior's requires so many pieces and is very skill testing. Still, if it is here to stay, maybe change it in a future patch. Bladestorm is not great, I hesitate to run it now, any nerf to it would make it unplayable I think.
I think Skipper is fine, Warrior should have a way to gain a lot of armor fast and the combo requires a lot of pieces. It also rotates soon.
Druid is not in a good place right now but Overgroth is still a problem.
Shaman deserves to shine a bit but if it just becomes dominat due to ohter nerfs, something should be done. It's a shame that only fast and highroll-y decks see play, control shaman is such an interesting deck.
Maybe some neutrals should be changed, too. For example, Voracious reader should maybe draw up to 2 or just be a 1/1/2.
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Glad it worked for you :)
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We ll it worked for me pretty consistently with the said strategy. For ex. when I made different deck at the begining for warrior with random cards, it never offered me E.T.C., God of Metal. But when I tried to build a deck around rush minions, suddenly there was always a choice to pick him up from bucket, sooner or later, sometimes even twice. It´s worth the try.
As I wrote before, not sure about the Il'gynoth as I didn´t find a way to force him to my picks yet :/
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
Yeah, i'd rather reduce Armorsmith's health by 1.
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
No Hunter/Paladin nerfs but nerfing Druid? WTF
Is the Outof.cards forums section broken?
Oh okay, thanks for the response! I just wanted to make sure that it wasn’t an issue that just I was having.
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
I can see justification for any of the nerfs, they all don't need hit, but how does Paladin not get mentioned? Certainly there is something there that's annoying, powerful, and needs addressed.
Also, overgrowth and survival of the Fittest need it, and not just because I have golden copies. (I'm only afloat on dust right now because they nerfed evocation and I happened to open one of those in golden on day 1 of outland)
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
I like this potencial nerfs. I take it's only for standard, though I think wild need some serious nerfs. IMO raza needs to go back to HP costs 1.
It would be awesome if this posts could be joined by cards to buff to imagine what we could have imopoved (I don't really know which or how in this case)
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
Paladin is consistently one of the best classes but it always seems to dodge nerfs, including fam suggestions for nerfs. 4-mana goody two shields and a 1-mana increase to libram of hope and libram of wisdom would be very welcome right now
The Hearthstone Cards the Community Would Like to See Nerfed
regarding the skipper i dont know. the problem is the combo with the armoursmith isnt it?