Today we've got an indie developer interview, but it's with someone you're likely to know. Robert Veitch, or Flux as we like to call him, and I had a chance to sit down to talk about game development and the new release that is coming out today, Clickbait Tycoon, an incremental idle-style game.
Let's dive right into things but before we do, the obvious disclaimer needs to be said that developer interviews are promotional in nature and there is an existing professional relationship between us, myself being a part of the Out of Games team for the existence of the website. Flux still owns Out of Games, under the FrostyVoid banner which also encompasses FrostyVoid Games. We're making games now!
Tell me a bit about yourself and your previous games.
Quote From Robert Hey! My name is Robert Veitch, just some dude from Canada who most people call Flux. I've been programming for a couple of decades at this point with a primary focus on web development but I've also been on the desktop and mobile programming side of things too. I love doing a little bit of everything when it comes to life because I just have this pursuit of knowledge. If I'm not learning something new every week, I'm not going farther in my personal quest, if that makes sense. Some might call me a Jack of all Trades Master of None and that's a fair title.
As far as previous games I've made? Nothing really public. Clickbait Tycoon will be the first publicly playable build of a game that I have created.
How do you manage creating a game and running a website at the same time?
Quote From Robert Here's my secret: I don't. Well, Clickbait Tycoon has been a fairly long project that I've worked on, taking inspiration directly from my time in the media space. If I was able to work on the game 24/7, I don't believe it would have taken as long as it has to push it out to the public.
Out of Games has suffered a bit over the past few weeks as we inched closer to the early access release for Clickbait Tycoon, but I expect that to smooth out as we get into next week; Which is also gamescom which is super exciting and then we won't be too far off of BlizzCon and then the Game Awards. Oh how close we are to the end of the year already.
Truthfully though, without the staff members we have on Out of Games, I wouldn't be able to do it. Just like I would not have been able to finish Clickbait Tycoon without the help of dozens of alpha and beta testers providing their feedback and most importantly, finding bugs. Launching on Windows, macOS, and Linux brought in plenty of its own challenges outside of gameplay.
It's also a bit hilarious because we're in the process of turning Out of Games into more of a gamified experience...
How did you come up with the idea for Clickbait Tycoon?
Quote From Robert Yeah so I eluded to this a bit before but Out of Games and my experience in digital written media is what gave me the idea. I enjoy playing idle, clicker, incremental games, though one could question if we're truly playing them or if they are playing us, and so the love for the genre and the real life experience merged together.
How do you revolutionize something that seems as simple as an incremental game?
Quote From Robert This is a great question and I don't even think that I've done anything truly revolutionary with the game. What I can say though is that the most important thing in the newer incremental-style games is that you need more systems that work together and provide an engaging experience for players.
One of the things I did during development was I went and read reviews on Steam for all the big titles and small ones too. I wanted to know what people liked and disliked about different games in the genre and I came to the conclusion that a lot of people care about their time being respected but at the same time there are a lot of players who talk about games being boring because there isn't much to do. I've given it my best work to make Clickbait Tycoon interesting to play, with the first couple of hours of gameplay being where things get unlocked and an understanding of how things work together is achieved. I've played through countless 30, 60, and 120 minute playthroughs of the game to attempt to balance things and to make sure that things were fun.
And I feel as if I did a decent job at it because I was able to get a few testers addicted to the game. I'm not saying addiction is a good thing, but when you can take someone who hasn't played one of these kinds of games and they log a couple of dozen hours over a week with a good chunk of that time being active playing, I'd call that a win in the fun department.
There are so many little things that happen inside of Clickbait Tycoon. Like ""The Wire" at the top of the game. There are a lot of funny headlines that will go by and I've heard testers randomly laughing as they read different ones and these are all just a part of experiences I've encountered or heard about in media. Or some are just straight absurd of course.
While there are a lot of things you can actively do with the game, catching yourself going between various systems and love seeing those numbers go up, the game also does work as something you can largely just idle too. Progression can happen pretty easily by just idling over time.
Do you have any funny or interesting stories about Clickbait Tycoon's development?
Quote From Robert I wish I had more screenshots of funny stuff happening but I wasn't really sharing anything with people until more recently so that kind of sucks. However, there was a funny bug that would happen with the clickable newspaper in the center. If you clicked too fast, the newspaper would get smaller and smaller until eventually it would completely disappear into the void. This was possible due to our accessibility option that allows you to tap Spacebar instead of clicking on the paper object; Also it could happen when playing with a Controller input side the default Right Trigger will click the paper as well. It would take a long time for the paper to return to its original size. No longer is that one possible.
The game did originally start as a proof of concept in Python where I was figuring out the math side of all the systems and running simulations to get an idea on timing. I then started to convert that test logic into a game inside of the Unitiy game engine which I've been familiar with for over a decade now thanks to the work I've done with datamining various Unity games including Hearthstone. I ultimately scrapped the idea because I felt more comfortable dealing with everything inside of web technologies like React and Phaser and having everything wrapped in a Chrome browser. I do have small regrets about that choice ultimately because there is no pathway to launching on consoles with a Chrome-focused game and so the controller support that I have semi-built at this point is a bit pointless haha.
Oh yeah, a more recent story to share is how my windows desktop machine is the only computer that was encountering slightly smudgey looking text. No other computer I own has the issue nor computers from family and friends that I was able to more accurately check directly. I was never able to figure out the exact fix but I did do some heavier work with the UI to increase the font sizes slightly especially for larger screens.
Why choose Early Access instead of a full release?
Quote From Robert Great question! So with Clickbait Tycoon being the first game to drop from the FrostyVoid Games banner, this is all very much experimental. Truthfully, I'm not the biggest fan of early access titles because so many of them stay in early access for way too long and fail to deliver on their promises. With Clickbait Tycoon, the game we have today is fully playable. We're currently missing story elements, which aren't essential for gameplay, but are one of the goals to hitting the 1.0 release that is expected next year.
The timeline right now is a 6-12 month period for early access. Anyone that buys the game during early access locks in a discounted price for the game as a way of saying thank you for helping to test the game and shape its future. During these 6-12 months, I've planned to have one major update hit roughly every month, with the 1.0 release potentially happening as soon as the start of next year. With two decades of software development experience though, I'm smart enough to know that there is always other stuff that comes up during development that leads to delays, so I'm giving myself twice the time frame to get things done in.
The main goal with early access though is just to finish the polish on the game and add in a handful of features that will make it interesting to play for years to come. After the 1.0 release, the game is considered finished though there may be smaller updates here and there as I feel inspired to make the game even better, outside of fixing any bugs that come up. Clickbait Tycoon isn't meant to be one of those games that gets updated forever and ever, too many developers fall into that trap. I think it's completely okay to have a game that is done. Games on the Nintendo 64 were just done at one point and they shipped, and they are treasured classics.
Notably though, Stardew Valley was one of those games everyone thought was done and Concerned Ape just keeps pushing out new mega updates to it even though he says there won't be anymore, so maybe I'll surprise myself. It's really going to come down to feedback at the end of the day.
What words do you have to say towards others developing their own game?
Quote From Robert It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's so easy to burn yourself out and I did a handful of times before reaching the finish line. Burnout is something that I personally experience all the time in everything I do because I chase just an insane amount of stuff in my life every single day so also learn from that, take it easy and care about yourself more.
I think a lot of people can learn something from that. It is so important to learn to take time for yourself and to actually focus on yourself. If you just go and play video games for a couple of hours every night to blank out of existence, you aren't doing yourself any good. Put the devices away, turn out the lights, and sit in darkness and be with your thoughts and think about your goals and reflect on your day or week or even month. I've been able to accomplish a lot more by utilizing self reflection more to put my mind at ease and I don't think I'd have gotten to the Early Access point for Clickbait Tycoon without taking time for myself.
It's also really nice to just get a pad of lined paper and use that to jot down ideas, draw pictures, and build systems by hand before touching a keyboard. I really enjoy the physicality of a pad of paper in the brainstorming and general creative processes. You don't need a battery and it gets rid of distractions that a computer would otherwise give you. You are forced to scratch out stuff you don't like or just rethink which gives you this story of your development process. You can physically see how you think and I believe that is a massive boon to understanding your creative journey. I've been using a pen and paper for all work I've done in game development and in a good chunk of web development too.
That's not to say you scrap the digital stuff altogether though. If you're out and about and an idea hits, get that down in whatever notes app you are using on your phone or email it to yourself. Even the silliest ideas might morph into something more creative.
Also, look elsewhere in the gaming space for ideas. The entire reason that we have Pals/Pets in Clickbait Tycoon is because of the amount of Palworld I was playing earlier this year. Palworld is unique vs Pokemon where you are incentivized to catch a lot of the same monsters because you can use the ones you don't like to power up the ones you do like. That's a perfect grinding mechanic for a game like Clickbait Tycoon.
Oh and I'd be crazy if I didn't mention roadmaps. I love planning. I do a lot of planning and I find it very helpful to write down an idea that I want to create and then also theorize what my first few major patches will be. That gives me an idea of what my MVP (Minimal Viable Product) is and where I eventually want to go. A lot of games can release before they are truly done, as long as the gameplay is there. If you aren't having fun with your basic game "done", maybe your first major patch needs to be rolled into it.
Also, get registered on Steam's Steamworks early and pay your $100 USD fee. Getting access to understanding all the things you will need to do to launch your game on Steam is so important. Plus, there is a three week delay in when you are earliest allowed to launch your game. Getting your game into the public eye and onto Steam's storefront as "Coming Soon" is important. I disagree though with these developers who put pages up 6 or even 12 months before they expect the game to come out. "Collecting Wishlists" doesn't really matter if most people wishlisting your game aren't going to buy it. It's trivial to Wishlist a game just like its trivial for someone a year later to go "eh, I don't really care about this anymore". That's why I decided to only have a public store page for a couple of weeks and to rely on the game actually being playable in an early access state and then develop the game in the open. Early Access for Clickbait Tycoon is fully playable though and has all the core systems in place for solid gameplay, so keep that in mind too.
Don't let anyone take advantage of your either. A lot of publishers exist to help "indies" (which, you really aren't an independent if you are relying on a publisher) release and promote their game, but they aren't likely to provide you the amount of value for what they are taking from you financially. It's of course a gamble on your end, maybe they suck at promotion or maybe your game ultimately just doesn't vibe with anyone so they get the shit end of the stick. Try it yourself though and be genuine with the people who are interested in your game. Being personable in this age of the robots taking everything over is more important than ever.
That does it for this indie developer interview. Clickbait Tycoon launches on Steam in Early Access today and is available for $4.99 USD (there is a 10% discount for the launch week). Additionally, Out of Games members can head on over to the Shop to buy exclusive in-game items for Clickbait Tycoon with Gold and Platinum on our website. Are you interested?
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