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Legends of Runeterra | Posted by | 4 years, 9 months ago
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Control Isn't Control In Legends

Those of us who have a background in MTG or even Hearthstone have a pretty good idea of what a control deck is.

Take warrior for an example, he equips a weapon and smacks a dude using life as a resource.

He wins when the opponent runs out of stuff.

In MTG a control player might run planes walkers who have their own health gage to be used as a resource to grind the opponent out.

But in Legends much of what we call "control" is actually combo decks.

Ezreal is a great example he encourages you to remove your opponents followers to level him, he's a control card right? No...because he actually becomes a combo card once leveled bursting the opponent down to 0.

We see something similar with Lee Sin overwhelm, they who endure/nasus and karma is often used as a direct dmg tool as well.

So what is a "control" card in Legends given the unique way this game is designed.

Lux is a pretty obvious choice, she literally just gives you free removal, J4 for sure, Tom ketch, kindred, TF, Aphelios, and thats kind of it right now.

It doesnt help that many of these cards aren't very good, with the exception to the recent buff to j4 he's great.

Personally I think the developers should be less scared to print hard control tools and Champs going forward, because even lisandra is being used as a combo piece right now.

 

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  • Those of us who have a background in MTG or even Hearthstone have a pretty good idea of what a control deck is.

    Take warrior for an example, he equips a weapon and smacks a dude using life as a resource.

    He wins when the opponent runs out of stuff.

    In MTG a control player might run planes walkers who have their own health gage to be used as a resource to grind the opponent out.

    But in Legends much of what we call "control" is actually combo decks.

    Ezreal is a great example he encourages you to remove your opponents followers to level him, he's a control card right? No...because he actually becomes a combo card once leveled bursting the opponent down to 0.

    We see something similar with Lee Sin overwhelm, they who endure/nasus and karma is often used as a direct dmg tool as well.

    So what is a "control" card in Legends given the unique way this game is designed.

    Lux is a pretty obvious choice, she literally just gives you free removal, J4 for sure, Tom ketch, kindred, TF, Aphelios, and thats kind of it right now.

    It doesnt help that many of these cards aren't very good, with the exception to the recent buff to j4 he's great.

    Personally I think the developers should be less scared to print hard control tools and Champs going forward, because even lisandra is being used as a combo piece right now.

     

    • The way I see it any deck that aims to control the board in the early/mid game with non combat removal before finishing off the opponent in the late game is a control deck. 

      I don't consider combo to be a unique deck type in Runeterra because pretty much any deck is capable of some form of combo. Jinx/Draven is considered an aggro yet it has so many combos available Spinning Axe or Get Excited! into Vision for example,Trash/Nasus is a midrange but it also have combo like Ravenous Butcher into Cursed Keeper. 

  • Yeah, the main issue I feel is that you are heavily encouraged by the game to play combat centric decks. All removal options are grossly inferior to combat tricks of similar cost. Even some of the best ones like Mystic Shot are sad when you compare them to things like Troll Chant or the newly buffed Twin Disciplines. Such makes it extremely hard to remove a target and punishes you aggressively for playing from behind because for every spell you use to remove their stuff they have a more efficient card that protects it. I don't really see that being fixed any time soon either, so I've been drifting away from the game recently because I just get tired of how snowbally the game feels. 

    I could be wrong about all of this, but its the way I feel on the subject at the very least. 

  • Combo more so referring to decks that have their entire wincon based around one decisive turn and everything else is just stalling.

    Like dragons is midrange because you play Asol but you dont win that turn, usually it might not be till 2 turns after. 

    Ezreal always has a burst turn, lissandra has an overwhelm swing turn, Lee Sin has his flip turn.

    A better example of control is tf swain, or kegs...and again drawing a bit of a blank because as mentioned earlier removal spells arent great in this game so real control decks are rare.

    But something close is interaction heavy lists like the j4 one I built, like it or not single combat and it's 3 mana counterparts are the best way to "hard remove" things in this game. Because burst spells are so strong the only way to beat them.is to counter with your own tricks while your removal hangs on the stack.

    • Combo more so referring to decks that have their entire wincon based around one decisive turn and everything else is just stalling.

      That definition can easily be applied to most control decks, take feel the rush for example all you do is in the early and mid game is stalling until you can play feel the rush and swing for big damage. 

  • Why exactly do you want an outdated game concept being reintroduced to a game that knowingly avoided it so far?

    I am sure Riot never wanted control to resemble control from mtg because control in mtg is one of the least innovative and one of the most tiresome archetypes of the game.

    LoR goes the better way since it provides strong lategame cards that swing the game on their own but doesn't allow control to deny aggression that well that if control draws nuts early you don't stand a chance to ever get agency as the opponent. 

    Do we actually need the likes 3 mana Deny 5 mana Vengeance and 7 mana The Ruination and therefore a faster clock for control for control decks to be viable? 

    Control decks never struggled to win lategame in LoR but to stablelize (aka shutting down the game early)so why do we need to buff the archetype's intended weakness? 

    Let control decks in LoR be what they are: an archetype featuring big splashy units that take over the game on their own that you only get to play if you stabilize the game eaely enough.

    You are right: Lux is the only real control card and imo she could use a rework to make her less boring of a champion. 

  • Feel the rush was exactly the combo card I was thinking of. I've seen it run in all sorts.of lists with all sorts of Champs...want to know why because as a combo card the exact decklist doesn't matter as long as it excels as stalling out the game and giving you that magical top deck.

    • I think it completely depends on what you'd define Combo decks as. I don't think Combo decks have the inherent stall that you mentioned, it's just that most of them do. The defining trait of a Combo deck is a specific set of cards that can either swing the game in your favor or win on the spot, and that means that most of the time the best way to do so is by using Control tools to stall or speed up your win condition. Some decks however don't really do that. Encroaching Shadows or Elusive decks are a good example of Combo decks that don't.

      So you can't really say that one single card is a Combo. Running Atrocity in a Deep or Nasus deck doesn't make it a Combo deck because it uses different ways to win outside of Atrocity. Feel The Rush isn't exactly a combo deck when it's literally a single good card and in the same deck it's not only your win condition because you can play the champions on their own. Ezreal Combo decks lose if you literally don't draw an Ezreal, but the same can't be said for Draven Ezreal.

      Honestly though, I do understand where you're coming from. LoR is a weird game where cards meant to be win conditions can be reused to build different archetypes at the same time. Thresh Nasus could be a Control or Midrange deck depending on how you build it. Fiora decks could be a Combo deck or a Midrange deck. Ezreal could be Control/Midrange/Combo. So yeah it just kinda depends on what you think can be considered a Combo deck.

    • Quote From Nifty129

      Feel the rush was exactly the combo card I was thinking of. I've seen it run in all sorts.of lists with all sorts of Champs...want to know why because as a combo card the exact decklist doesn't matter as long as it excels as stalling out the game and giving you that magical top deck.

      Feel The Rush is not a Combo card my friend. Combo means a combination of multiple cards, Spectral Matron is combo card since you need to have another 8+ unit to get its effect. Lee Sin is another example of a combo card since he doesn't do anything by himself you need to have two other spells in hand to get his effect. Feel the Rush doesn't need to have another card in your hand or in the board to get it's effect.

       

  • Depends on your definition, feel the rush pulls out two other cards from your deck and is therefore a 3 card self contained combo. Lor is definately a strange game. Like harrowing is similar, it's one card that pulls out all the other cards you already played and is most definately a combo piece

     

    • Quote From Nifty129

      Depends on your definition, feel the rush pulls out two other cards from your deck and is therefore a 3 card self contained combo. Lor is definately a strange game. Like harrowing is similar, it's one card that pulls out all the other cards you already played and is most definately a combo piece

       

      Feel The Rush is as much of a combo card as emergent ultimatum is a combo card in MTG and both aren't fitting the description of a combo card imo.

      Yes there might be synergy between the cards you fetch from the mega tutor effect but if you don't have to assemble any set of cards but instead play one tutor to fetch all the cards you need you play control with a combo'ish finisher, not combo.