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Legends of Runeterra | Posted by | 5 years, 10 months ago
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Does "They Who Endure" need a nerf?

Enemy plays a 6 mana 14/14 with Overwhelm. If you try to block it you die because of Overwhelm. If you try to remove it with say, Will of Ionia, enemy atrocities and you die. 

The effective answers to this combo are quiet rare (frostbite?).. Why is my enemy able to spawn a 6 mana 14/14 with overwhelm again?

Either They Who Endure should NOT have Overwhelm (cause a 6 mana XX/XX it's good enough on its own, it doesn't need overwhelm on top of that) , or the mana costs should be tweaked so that you cannot play it along side Atrocity on the same turn. I rather have the first one.

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  • Enemy plays a 6 mana 14/14 with Overwhelm. If you try to block it you die because of Overwhelm. If you try to remove it with say, Will of Ionia, enemy atrocities and you die. 

    The effective answers to this combo are quiet rare (frostbite?).. Why is my enemy able to spawn a 6 mana 14/14 with overwhelm again?

    Either They Who Endure should NOT have Overwhelm (cause a 6 mana XX/XX it's good enough on its own, it doesn't need overwhelm on top of that) , or the mana costs should be tweaked so that you cannot play it along side Atrocity on the same turn. I rather have the first one.

  • Glad you made this thread, because this is the other big contentious deck running around right now. It has a pretty clear weakness against elusives, because all of the chump blockers don't do anything against that deck, but against everything else it turns out that playing a bunch of junk, into a neverglade collector to gain you life, into a they who endure is a little too consistent. You don't even need to run champions for it to be good.

     

    I am guilty of playing the card now and then, which is probably pretty tilting for the opponent.

  • Because it's quite bad without building a deck around it it doesn't get that big otherwise. you can't really look at the card in a vacuum.

    It's not that simple, here you are mentioning the most toxic card in the game currently, Will of Ionia, because of this card cards that cost 5 or more rarely ever see any play because you will just get a massive tempo loss for playing those cards.

    I think there needs to be some change to atrocity and will if anything I will be surprised if the they who endure itself gets changed.

    Anyway we *will* see tomorrow what they are planning (unless they moved patch notes day to Tuesday and I forgot..)

    Think that card won't be touched.. removing overwhelm will just make it easy to chump block, and giving it fearsome is just an "easy" solution, freljord has a lot to do with overwhelm it's a theme the region have, giving it fearsome which is more of a SI/Noxus mechanic feels probably bad.. but if they were to nerf the card I could totally see it being the case.

     

  • Its a win condition card that requires a whole deck built around it too work most of the time. By your logic Accelerated Purrsuit needs a nerf too since it leads into; Catastrophe Card Image

    • Quote From Vincent3383

      Its a win condition card that requires a whole deck built around it too work most of the time. By your logic Accelerated Purrsuit needs a nerf too since it leads into; Catastrophe

      You missed DoubleSummon's logic entirely and your logic is missing a logic.

  • Honestly, I think Atrocity should just become a slow spell card so it can't be chained. That or Endure needs to lose overwhelm. As it stands the card basically counters it's own counter play unless you have Frostbite.

  • I tend to think the real problem is Atrocity. At 6 mana the fast speed makes it a little too easy to use as a soft counter/OTK after your opponent goes to remove your big threat. Other cards like Glimpse Beyond suffer the same problem from a balance perspective, but the cost of removing a large threat is really prohibitive in this case. If you expect your opponent to wait for you to play removal so they can drop Atrocity, then you either need a burst speed answer or you need multiple cheap answers so you can play one after the Atrocity comes down (since one expensive removal card just won't sequence the way you need it to).

    But there isn't much in the way of burst answers. Various Frostbite effects work, and Purify works if we're talking about a unit like They Who Endure, but that's not the only big unit people play with this card. And for the "multiple cheap answers," that's basically dead on arrival. I guess you could happen to have multiple copies of Noxian Guillotine and the right circumstances to play it, but that's a pretty silly plan.

  • Among all cards that have killed me, I honestly think, They Who Endure is the card that killed me the most times. 

    I absolutely agree on removing overwhelm from the card. (They could give it a base P/H of 3/3 and give it +1/+1 for each ally that died in return.) 

    The purpose and flavor of the card in my opinion should feel like they are going to slowly eat you up. They endure and you don't. And not like a one hit plane crash in your face.

     

    And yes to making Atrocity a Slow spell.