Hearthstone
Alternate Spelling - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Submitted 3 years, 6 months ago by
ShadowsOfSense
Competition Theme: Alternate Spelling
We're looking for the latest thing in spellcasting this week - don't stick to the old school!
- You must create a spell of a Spell School not normally associated with that class
- Obviously, your spell can't be neutral either - no sneaking around the restrictions!
- The Spell Schools not allowed for each class are listed in the spoiler below
- Show SpoilerDemon Hunter: Fel, Shadow
Druid: Arcane, Nature
Hunter: Fire, Nature
Mage: Arcane, Fire, Frost
Paladin: Holy
Priest: Holy, Shadow
Rogue: Nature, Shadow
Shaman: Fire, Frost, Nature
Warlock: Fel, Fire, Shadow
Warrior: Fire, Nature
MathU wants us to expand our knowledge base for this competition. Maybe you'll come up with the next big archetype?
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
- Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 17 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, May 22 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, May 22 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, May 23 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, May 23 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, May 24 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
- Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.
Discussion Thread Rules
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Competition Theme: Alternate Spelling
We're looking for the latest thing in spellcasting this week - don't stick to the old school!
Druid: Arcane, Nature
Hunter: Fire, Nature
Mage: Arcane, Fire, Frost
Paladin: Holy
Priest: Holy, Shadow
Rogue: Nature, Shadow
Shaman: Fire, Frost, Nature
Warlock: Fel, Fire, Shadow
Warrior: Fire, Nature
MathU wants us to expand our knowledge base for this competition. Maybe you'll come up with the next big archetype?
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
Welcome to the site!
First batch of cards. Decided to go for flavor on this one.
Intended to pair well with Bolvar, Fireblood and Light's Sorrow. I might increase the cost so I can increase the buff to +2/+4 or something more substantial.
I'm not sure if the Shadow tag goes as well with the card as I thought it would, but I guess I should post it anyway.
Wailor - All of them is nice and flavorfull. Puryfing Flames is strong, but maybe it should be 2 mana? Forest Fire has an interesting combo. Also I think that Hibernate's effect is not allowed, beceuse of "friendly Beast". It's ok for hunter, but bad when other classes gets it.
linkblade91 - Maybe it's just me, but I don't like all this "loses divene shield" stuff.
Demonxz95 - Now it's like a Healing Touch with downvote. I think it should me 2 mana or give more armor
The flavor is almost bound to be a bit off with this theme, but here is what I came up with:
I'm trying to bring the spell generation and the Dragon themes for Priest from Ashes of Outland together in this one. It's a quite powerful effect so maybe 4 Mana is still too cheap.
Feedback:
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Warrior is my favourite Nature spell user.
Ok
Warrior is a very weird class for the prompt, and this is something that we actually spoke about while discussing the specifics of it. Warrior (and to a lesser extent, Hunter) is a class that unlike all the others, does not have a main spell school of choice. They have the least amount of tagged spells in the game at only 5. Fire and Nature were the two biggest ones in the class, both having 2, so we decided to go with that
Follow up question: why did warrior and hunter need 2 schools to begin with when paladin only has holy? Pally has 2 shadow spells but that wasn't forced onto the class.
I can easily see why warrior would have fire for thematic reasons (smelting metal for weapons and armour), even if it rarely makes its way onto cards. But as with paladin's shadow spells, the reasons for the nature tag in warrior are completely external to the class (either a poison from rogue or just because Un'Goro was all about nature) in a way that would be quite fitting for this competition.
In the case of Nature Warrior spells vs Shadow Paladin spells, there are two factors at play here: The flavor of the class as a whole, and the total number of spell cards in the class that have spell types.
2 out 5 Warrior spells with types are Fire spells, or in other words, they make up 40% of Warrior spells with types. Compare that to Paladin Shadow spells, which makes up 2 out of 45 Paladin spells with types, which is only 4.4% of Paladin spells with types.
And then there's class flavor. As you pointed out, fire is an occasional thematic element for Warrior even if it isn't the main focus of the card as it would be for a Mage or Shaman card for instance. While nature is not necessarily a thematic element for Warrior, there is not anti-thematic association either as there is for Shadow spells in Paladin which are supposed to be flavored around being warriors of the light and standing for everything that's right. Shadow spells seem very anti-thematic to the class in a huge way, compared to Fire and Nature to Warrior which are not.
I've seen/read enough man vs nature stories that I'm predisposed to thinking the guy forging metal armour is thematically opposed to nature, but never mind. I'll leave any arguments to whoever wants to make a nature warrior spell (if any such person exists).
Well this semester has been brutal but now I should have the time to compete again. Yay!
This would have released back in Kobolds to support Silver Hand Recruit decks. It's nice that spell schools are retroactive so I can actually use former expansions as a base in this comp.
I'll try to come back and give feedback soon.
-Hordaki (rhymes with Mordecai)
Check out the Tactician custom class!
Got 2 ideas for Frost Warrior:
Feedback
Wailor: Flavor-wise, I like Hibernate the most, though it might be on the weak side. Same for Purging Flame, it could easily cost 2 and deal 4, since it's minion only (I would've said 1 and 3, but then it's just a better Holy Smite). Forest Fire seems fine, since it's in Druid.
linkblade91: Cool idea, but it might get out of hand with
.Demonxz95: It works with the flavor, not so much the mechanic (there's nothing shadow-y about it). Balance-wise, the card seems fine, since it leaves your hero kinda vulnerable.
R: Felocity is absolutely busted, and doesn't really fit rogue at all. Magifincent (Magnifincent would work better) is alright, though I can't really think of a burn-loc deck in shaman (though an OTK deck with it would work).
anchorm4n: This is incredibly weak, you need to cast 3 spells AND pay 4 mana? This could cost 6 and loose the spell cast requirement, though that might loose some flavor. Alternatively, you could make the card cost 3, maybe 2, but that's a stretch.
Hordaki: Seems balanced, even if I initially thought it might be overcosted.
Mage is the only class that I haven't submitted a card for this season, so I decided to go with that. My first thought was that of blood mages who incorporate elements of demonic magic into the usual mage abilites. This represents your hero delving into dark magic for a bit, providing efficient damage at the cost of health. This is also hero power support in mage that it could some more of.
Feedback - I have more time these next few weeks so I'll try to be more active:
The biggest issue with Hibernate is that it is a secret that only affects beasts, which makes it narrow. Normally, secrets refer to minions or spells in general so your opponent can reasonbly activate them. Also, the minion dying and coming back to life doesn't seem like the best fit for the flavor.
Forest Fire has a cool effect and good flavor, but I think giving Druid that much AOE is a bit too far outside their class identity in my opinion. The sacrificing part is fine as a bend, as I expect some of that for this week to fit the flavor. However, I think clearing the enemy board undermines Druid's weaknesses a bit too much. I find Poison Seeds a bit questionable from a class identity standpoint currently.
Some other people have suggested that it could be too strong with Lothraxion the Redeemed, but I don't see how a +1/+2 board buff for 1 mana that takes away divine shield is too strong later in the game unless I read the card wrong.
I'm not sure how powerful Magnifincent is, but I appreciate bridgeing between two different shaman archetypes and the pun.
I have a question - would dual class cards be allowed for these kinds of competitions? What restrictions would be on them?
My guess would be yes, but both halves must respect the rules (example: a Mage-Rogue spell can't be Frost or Arcane, since those are Mage schools). I remember during the plant comp that I wanted to make a Druid-Hunter card and wasn't allowed, since Druid was banned.
My guess is that they can be used, but couldn't use forbidden schools of any class, though it's not me who decides.
Guess it's feedback time!:
@Wailor
@linkblade91
@Demonxz95
@R
Magifincent maybe should cost 1 Mana? I'm not sure, but this may be hard to swarm board with Murlocs and cast spells.
@anchorm4n
@Hordaki
@Nirast
@grumpymonk
Ok
Your initial read is correct: it could buff minions that don't have Divine Shield, and it could stack if there are multiple Shields being stripped away. I plan to make it 2-mana, to remove its availability from Odd Paladin; would that be enough?
I'm really hesitant to go too far with nerfing this, because it is conditional and you're losing something in the process.
Here's something I threw together - what do you guys think? The card is worded this way in order to work with druid's ramp theme.
I've got an idea but I'm not sure in which direction to take it. Here are my two first alternatives of the same flavor. TRIGGER WARNING: One is an iteration of Deck of Lunacy. The other is obviously inspired by Renounce Darkness but I think that card is associated with less PTSD. Yeah, in a way they are basically rip-offs, but I like the flavor and maybe it could work anyway?
The wording is chosen to affect spells in both your hand and deck.
Feedback appreciated: Which one is better? Frozen throne watermark OK? Balanced for its cost/rarity? Are they too unoriginal?
The Snowglobe was rightfully critisized as too complicated, so I dug for some fitting piece of art. Ended up with something pretty cool, here's my first take for it:
What do you think? It's a huge powercreep of Inner Demon, but Druid isn't as aggressive as Demon Hunter and life gain has been a thing for Malfurion every now and then.
More feedback:
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
I think the first one could use a buff - Deck of Lunacy was so strong because it affected your entire deck, and was in a class that could abuse a deck full of those spells. This one targets less spells, in a class with less ways to abuse the high level spells, with a smaller buff than Deck of Lunacy. I think having it replace holy spells with ones that cost 3 more would be better.
Alright, time for feedback.
Purging Flame seems pretty nice, and I could definitely see this card being printed.
Hibernate is fine on balance, though the flavor feels a bit off since it's a bit weird for the Beast to die and THEN sleep.
I absolutely love the idea of Druid having a Forest Fire card, so you get points for me on that front. Even though the setup required to make this card likely makes it balanced, Druids are not supposed to be good at AoE so giving them a cheap way to potentially clear the board even at a huge board sacrifice is slightly bizarre.
Wow, this thread kinda exploded. I wanted to give some feedback yesterday at this time, but only four-ish people posted, so I decided to wait. Now I have a ton of work haha.
But before that, I'll leave here a non-Secret version of Hibernate, that avoids most of the negatives people found about it. Still not sure which of my cards I should go with, though.
And now, feedback:
Very thematically appropriate, both for the tag and for the expansion. The whole minions losing Divine Shield is kinda niche, but it was the main Paladin mechanic in KFT, so it's fine. All in all, pretty well rounded card IMO.
I prefer the 2 Mana version, btw.
I like Shield of Souls' effect well enough, giving Taunt to heroes is an effect that I enjoy a lot, even if it comes up in custom comps every now and then.
My main issue with it is that the effect hasn't a very tight connection with the flavor and, hence, with the tag, but it isn't too jarring.
Felocity doesn't feel like a Mage card, neither in terms of flavor nor in effect (which is more Warlock). In order to mitigate this a little bit, I'd try using Medivh as the character depicted in the card, since he was a Mage that became a Warlock.
Magnifincient could be an interesting finisher for Aggro Murloc Shaman, but the artwork does seem more Nature (with its lightnings and stuff) than it does Arcane.
I like the little pun you pulled out with Shaking the Snowglobe, but the effect seems overly complicated and disconnected.
I initially found Brothers in Arms too DemonHunter-y, but the expansion, the reference to the Stormrage brothers and the fact Druid can also gain Attack kinda changed my mind.
Pretty fine card. I think the balance is on point and the flavor as well.
I think I prefer Forged in Frost, since it uses the Freeze keyword in a way that seems more appropriate for Warrior. Frostbite seems more like a Mage or Shaman card, even if it has a Whirlwind-like effect.
It might be a bit weak compared to Upgrade!, so I'd probably buff it to +2/+2.
Very cool concept, fitting for both Mage and Shadow. The execution is very good, too.
I like the concept a lot, but I'm not sure if it would be too disruptive in case it existed. Then again, Mojomaster Zihi exists, so I don't think it would be too big of a problem.
My main issue with it is that KFT didn't have spell tags, so a card that synergizes with this feature couldn't have existed. Also, I'd change "spell from other schools" for "Shadow spells" or "Shadow and Frost spells", which would be more thematically appropriate.
Feedback:
anchorm4n - While Brothers in Arms is obviously better than Inner Demon, Inner Demon is a basic card and this is an epic from an expansion, so I'm okay with it. It's better than the Snowglobe for sure.
allthehype - As the others have mentioned, you cannot place the cards in KFT and make direct references to spell schools. If I had to choose I would prefer the Renounce Darkness variant; I personally don't like either one, but it could be because my idea was to also make a mirror of RD…just not as blatant, frankly-speaking. We're both making 2-mana Shadow Paladin spells from KFT featuring Arthas; not saying it's on purpose, but it's gonna bug me on some level :/
Ilphelkiir - I don't like this at all. Your opponent is devastated, while you get to continue functioning depending on how much you've ramped. If you played this on me, I would just concede: I'm not starting the game over halfway-through.
grumpymonk - I think it's a little on the weak side; maybe it could cost 0? That's risky, I know, but you still have to spend 2 mana to use the Hero Power (and hurt yourself, in a class with little healing). Still, I like the concept a lot. I made something similar for Shadow Priest in my custom expansion, where their Hero Power did damage but hurt the Priest too.
Nirast - Frostbite is weird because the Warrior wants to utilize Frenzy/when damaged effects as soon as possible, while Freeze forces him to wait. Forged in Frost is worse than Upgrade!, frankly, because you can't attack right away and the +1 Attack isn't worth it (Durability is more valuable). Maybe make it +2/+2?
Hordaki - I honestly don't think it would have seen use in Kobolds & Catacombs…but one expansion later, with Odd Paladin? Quite possible. I like it, but I wonder if it might be too good in the aforementioned archetype.
R - Wouldn't it be "Magfinicent"? I think the I is in the wrong place. Anyway, I think giving your Murlocs Spell Damage is interesting but ultimately weird: it bucks against their minion-focused gameplay, and the Un'Goro set doesn't provide much in the way of support. Are you gonna Volcano your Murlocs? I guess the plan is to burst them down with minions before double-tapping with Lightning Bolt or Lava Burst, but Bloodlust could accomplish a similar thing with less cards. Felocity is a No from me: we've seen what the Mage is capable of when she can draw super efficiently.
Demonxz95 - Already gave you my thoughts on the card :P The Taunt part is 50/50 good or bad depending on the situation, so ultimately it's the Armor you have to look at. Is this better than Shield Block? Currently it is not.
Wailor - I like Purging Flames and your non-Secret Hibernate the most, but I think I have to give the edge to Purging Flames. It's a good, anti-buff removal spell; could probably deal 4 damage, though, to put it in line with Tidal Surge and the like. Hibernate is flavorful, which could be why you go with that one instead, but gameplay-wise I just don't see it. Your ideal home for such a spell would be a Taunt-focused Beast deck, one that isn't worried about being Frozen. But Beasts have a lot of Rush available, and you definitely don't want to lose an attack.
Feedback time for unsubmitted cards:
Wailor: I like the flavor of your cards, but I'd go with Purging Flame or the new Hibernate.
allthehype: You should go with a custom watermark if you're going to directly mention Holy spells. Otherwise I'd go with the Renounce version out of the two, although you might want to clarify in the card text if the spells are from other classes.
Ilphelkiir: That's a really interesting mechanic, I like it.
grumpymonk: It's a good mechanic, but I'm not sure if the flavor fits in Mage.
Nirast: I like Forged in Frost, but it might make more sense to simplify it to just "Give your weapon +2/+1 and Freeze your hero".
R: Magnificent is the better of the two, Felocity feels too much like a Warlock card.
Demonxz95: Good mechanic, but the flavor and school could use improvement.
-Hordaki (rhymes with Mordecai)
Check out the Tactician custom class!
I checked some card interactions and I think my card could be buffed a bit. Do you think it should be 2 or 3 damage, or better left at 1 mana? It requires using the hero power to get the damage, which costs mana, and it is not affected by spell damage unlike Moonfire.
More feedback:
Off of feedback that the flavor of Shield of Souls was not perfect, I decided to make a new card. I've seen a few "Paladin turn evil" cards, but what if I flipped that idea of its head like Renounce Darkness.
Now, a heel-face turn like this doesn't happen instantly. It takes a little bit of time and dedication before you are fully redeemed, hence why Illidan will still keep his demonic minions and interestingly-designed weapons. Illidan is also redeeming himself after all and not anyone else.
Here is a list of Holy spells
The cost reduction might seem strong at first, but Demon Hunter as a whole is not a class that can build decks to take advantage of this lasting effect in the same way that Mage can reliably build an all-spell deck for Deck of Lunacy.
In all honesty, it was your card that inspired me to try out the "Fall of Arthas" theme (one of my favorite pieces of lore). However, my intention was never to plagiarize or piggyback your idea and in my opinion the cards are different enough to stand on their own. But if you (and other voters/mods) consider my card too similar too yours I'd be happy to drop the idea. :)
As for the other feedback: It seems like the Renouce edition is more popular than the Lunacy edition. As for transforming the Holy spells into Shadow spells, that was something I also considered but dropped due to the small pool of options. But if I go with the Renounce idea this won't be as much of a problem compared with Lunacy. I'll probably go this way: Renounce edition into Shadow spells. Maybe change the mana cost to 1? And without the KFT watermark, of course.
Feedback time!
Demonxz95:
grumpymonk:
Wailor:
anchorm4n:
Ilphelkiir:
linkblade91:
Nirast:
Hordaki:
R
Hi Everyone,
I've got one main idea and a backup idea this time that I'm looking for some thoughts on:
Heart of Y'Shaarj is my main idea I'm looking for feedback on - it makes it so you can scale all of your minions up through a game if you're able to hold them. It also can turn Y'Shaarj into a full hand refill of minions.
Toxic Twister is the backup idea, just proving a semi-chaotic flexible removal tool for shaman. Inspired by the Dark Shamans in Siege of Orgrimmar that used corrupted elemental spells.
Don't mind me; I guess I'm just salty. Thought I had a unique angle, but you're not the only one who did it either. I don't know if we'll do well as a group, these various "fallen Paladin" cards aping on each other, but too late now.
I like both of these cards: I've been tinkering with the Heart of Y'Shaarj ever since I included it in my custom expansion, and incorporating Corrupt as-per the new Y'Shaarj's will is spot-on. Goes well with the next expansion in line, as well, seeing as how you want to hold onto minions to use handbuffs like Conditioning (Rank 1). One problem I see is that Corrupted cards are technically different cards; it's not just a simple buff. Minions that didn't normally have Corrupt would have an issue, because they don't change appearance or name, which is how Y'Shaarj, the Defiler flags them.
Toxic Twister seems like a fun card, although you do have a minor error: it should be "its", not "it's".
All-in-all, I feel like Toxic Twister might be the better card to go with, because some voters seem to be uncomfortable with "for the rest of the game" effects...at least from my experience. Could just be a "me" problem lol
Good catch on the twister error, I'll make sure to fix it up.
As for Heart of Y'Shaarj, I dont find it hard to imagine some behind-the-scenes spaghetti to get it working. The game seeing a corrupt trigger from it and just applying the handbuff and the Corrupted keyword for Y'Shaarj to see. (Like giving any other keyword to a minion in hand eg. Val'anyr giving Deathrattle). If i go with Heart I'll make sure to explain the function in the description.
Two extra damage is a Darkbomb, essentially. Perfectly fine output, although it's worse than Frostbolt (which uses 2-mana and a card to inflict 3 damage, but doesn't hurt you and comes with Freeze). I've wavered back and forth on this one, but I think you can get away with the "3 extra damage" iteration.
Seems cool to me! I don't have much else to say.
The warrior card is certainly interesting, but I can't help but think it compares unfavorably to Invigorating Sermon. It makes sense to reduce the cost by half by removing the board buff, but it seems like jumping through many hoops to give the other minions the same bonus. If it gave the ability to corrupt endlessly (like Horrendous Growth) I think it would be powerful enough to build a deck around.
The shaman is solid and I think the effect matches with the flavor of the card very well. Because Blizzard is based in America, they would use "neighbors" instead of "neighbours", not that it matters or anything.
24 hours left to sumbit!
Hello, my idea I'll submit within hour or two, maybe nerfed to 4 Mana
Ok
My first instinct is to say that it might be fine at 3 mana given that your opponent can easily ignore them for one turn and you don't develop a threatening presence until they can attack which gives your opponent plenty of time to do something about it. Three 3/3s for 3 mana is still strong though, so I wouldn't be opposed to putting it at 4 mana.
What I'm not a huge fan of is summoning a 1/1 minion and immediately giving it +2/+2 as opposed to just summoning a 3/3 minion. I get that this is for SHR synergy, but it feels like a weird workaround that tries to force a synergy. It would be like if Libram of Hope summoned a 1/1 SHR, then gave it +7/+7, Taunt and Divine Shield instead of what it does right now.
Yeah, I had similar concerns, although I felt this fits flavour, so I just went with this.
Ok
Congrats, Arkasaur!
I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com
Holy fuck that score is high!
Congrats, Arkasaur!
Maybe I misread the card, but shouldn't it say corrupt endlessly because corrupt is a one-time effect?
Wow, thanks everyone!
Guess I struck onto a good idea with this one.
@grumpymonk - since its "for the rest of the game" and not "give minions in your hand and deck" it should reapply whenever the game see's a minion regardless of if its already been corrupted by this effect, functioning like the horrendous growth.
A little late but congrats Arkasaur! Shows what I know, suggesting you go with Toxic Twister instead lel
I think Heart was still the riskier card to submit, but sometimes that pays off.