In an interview with Inven, Legends of Runeterra's Communications Lead, Dillon Buckner, has confirmed that there are no plans to offer card refunds when cards get changed.
- There will not be refunds when a card gets changed.
- The goal is to make all cards in the game viable.
- If a card change makes a card no longer viable, the goal is to quickly fix it.
The Runeterra team also aims to make sure that all Champions fit into their own "dream" deck and that all Regions remain viable. They've currently done a pretty good job with keeping these goals in mind so we'll have to make sure we hold them to these standards as new Champions and Regions get released.
How do you feel about their philosophy behind card changes?
Quote From Dillon Buckner It’s Beta, so many cards could still change. Has the team thought of a balance approach for when the game launches? And has the team thought of a “card refund” policy yet for cards that get changed?
We patch LoR every other Tuesday, with card updates every other patch (so monthly). When it comes to how much we change in those patches, we’re still learning and want to hear what players think, but we plan to pretty actively adjust cards in pursuit of our gameplay goals and to keep LoR fresh.
I actually handle patch notes for our team, so I’m constantly in touch with the gameplay designers and can share some info on their goals. When we look at balance in LoR and consider changes, we have some high-level, aspirational targets we use to guide our long-term efforts:
- Every champion should have a deck where they're the best fit and their “dream” can be realized.
- Non-champion cards should have at least one deck where they're a good option.
- Regions should have at least one competitively viable deck.
- The meta should support the widest possible array of competitively viable decks.
While buffing cards in pursuit of these targets is the fun part, we will also power down cards where necessary. When we do, we want to avoid over-nerfs (cards should remain playable) as well as minimize collateral damage to cards or decks that aren’t the actual target of a given change.
We fully plan to monitor changes, rather than drop them and forget, and will make further tweaks in future patches as needed. This last bit is particularly critical because we don’t plan to refund cards we’re adjusting—our commitment is that any card a player obtains should remain viable despite changes (or be quickly adjusted again if we miss the mark), and that LoR’s generous card access means players always have options to iterate on their current strategies or pursue new ones.
Comments
Company is still an amateur developer, clearly.
Making every card viable is the funniest part to me. Every other card game has either given up on that idea, or struggle to make that idea work. Magic and Hearthstone has so many draft chaff and weird cards to cover the unviable cards, while Gwent just moves from meta to meta with every balance changes.
Honestly this is a good thing
For one, there's no good way to do refunds in this game anyways since there is no such thing as a dust value.
Furthermore, if they actually did give refunds then we'd just have less balance changes. Moreover they#d have little incentive to keep cards playable.
Also we are more likely to get buffs and nerf reverts this way
Pretty much what i expected, the LOR reward system is pretty generous so far, we shall see how the game progresses when it gets older.
Even if they meet their goal to make every card “viable”, that isn’t going to leave people satisfied:
In short, a game like this needs to be fair AND feel fair. A set of rules that work out logically but still leave people FEELING cheated will not work.
I agree with this coming from Hearthstone.
Then it's a good thing they are being upfront about their no-refund policy. You can decide for yourself if that OP Champion is worth the risk of a future nerf. Seems perfectly fair to me.
On serious note. Many card games have refunds, from the newer ones Eternal Cards also have refunds when card is nerfed (you can dust if for full dust - whatever dust is there called).
Yea Runeterra is quite F2P friendly now. Hearthstone in the first year also was really F2P friendly. There was not that much cards, you received quite a few from start and some packs/dust. Less cards were OP and many basic cards were much more playable.
Hearthstone is 6 years old now. There are hundreds of cards, and yes now Hearthstone is not that F2P friendly. Specially for new players.
I wonder how will Runeterra look even in 3 years from now. If they add to much new factions this will make game less F2P Friendly. Now we have 6 factions. If they add more than 3 new chance to get anything useful from pack will be much less.
But all this is future. Now nonrefundable nerfed cards are no problem. This might be but probably we are good for 2 years or something. It all depends on how much factions and cards in each expansion they will add.
The refund policy of HS was a cheap way to just dump problematic cards without having to actually balance them around: simply throw them away and forgot they've ever existed. It's just a lazy solution for a very complex issue.
LoR's team targets are very ambitious, so let's see how they'll going to achieve them. But I cannot hide that I appreciated their approach.
I totaly understand it i mean they are so f2p already so dont mind if there is no refunds
TBH to get all cards be viable is a hard goal
I don't think this will work out for them. I understand the idea.
Different question though: Are there refunds on Champion nerfs in LoL?
No, you do not receive anything when a champion is nerfed in League. You're given three refund tokens to spend however you want if you don't like a champion or what-have-you, but once they are used up they are gone forever and you never get any more.
There are no refunds in League of Legends.
I honestly think Hearthstone took an odd approach to it, though it was somewhat needed with how expensive the game is and how they have targeted a very casual F2P audience. Outside of MTG Arena taking the same approach as HS, I can't actually think of any other game that offers content refunds upon balance changes now that I think about it.
Hearthstone always wanted the game to feel physical and that stuff wouldn't change because of it. Yet MTG has no problems getting rids of problems they've printed by banning the card, this is just the first time they can easily offer a replacement when players lose their standard cards.
Didn't mean to write a wall of text in response, but it is interesting the different sides that exist.
I would argue the majority of other CCGs offer refunds.
Both Mythgard and TES:Legends do refunds on nerfs.
Mythgard (still on open beta) gave back 100% craft dust value of the nerfed cards on decraft (like HS).
TES:L (in maintenance mode) went even further and gave decraft dust on each nerfed card, just for owning these cards, so you didn't even need to decraft them (if you did then they would be refunded as usual).
edit: typos
With how much more generous Runeterra's reward system is compared to Hearthstone's, I honestly don't mind this.
However, the goal to make every card in the game viable simply cannot happen by virtue of the fact that some cards will always be better than others. Or maybe by "viable", what they really mean is "usable".
I was browsing on a small screen and the first thing I read was 'No Refunds for Card Nerfs', and I was like, WHAT, and then I saw it was for Runeterra. Whew, that was quite the roller coaster.
Anyway, it'd be interesting to see how this design philosophy plays out - hopefully Hearthstone can learn from them (or vice versa).
It's a noble goal and you cannot fault them for trying (until it likely fails and people complain about a lack of refunds I suppose).
Perhaps the real loss is that they might never print any cards that are designed to be bad (e.g. Magma Rager, Majordomo Executus and Desert Obelisk). There are plenty of complaints people throw at the HS design and balance teams, but 'not supplying cards for the meme players' is not one of them.
Sure HS positioned itself at the meme end of the card game market and LoR much less so, but these cards are pretty much free wins for the devs because you know someone will like them no matter how underpowered they are.
I mean with widely different approach to acquiring of cards the no refund policy is fine.
I can't imagine why they used an image of Yasuo for the cover image.
Haha, definitely seemed a little fitting :D :D