The amount of card draw in the game right now is the biggest thing. The more card draw, the more matches begin to feel samey, as you can always guarantee you'll draw the cards you need, usually at the right time. Hearthstone has a smaller deck size than most CCG/TCGs, so card draw has a much bigger impact here.
switch to control to counter aggo -> only face better control/greedy AF value
okay hearthstone. i guess i suck it up, play aggro face decks, and walk into traffic.
edit: faced ~ 10 greedy control decks in a row. okay. switch to kazakstan druid, immediately face OTK mage. makes sense.
next game with kaza druid, face libram paladin, a deck i'd not faced in the previous 10 games.
okay switch back to control warrior. face kaza druid. what is going on.
i wish i was exaggerating. i am ONLY queuing into decks that hard counter me. lost to kaza druid as warrior then immediately faced OTK mage again. switch to kaza druid, face demon seed, twice.
downvoted for posting appropriate content in the correct place. "message boards for everyone else, but fuck this guy in particular" right?
Ehhh, we'll see when we'll see it. I don't mind bringing back board-based things (I really enjoy control decks) but I ain't gonna trust on their "putting effort to make things work" thing, we've got bamboozled so many times like this (Or at least in my opinion) that I'll simply wait to see if their putting effort will work (Which I hope will)
Sure, but again, you are warping all strategies around one card, that removes one of basic HS limitations - fatique.
The meta will only be warped around the card if the deck is still powerful and top tier. But with a loss of multiple self damage/draw tools it is no guarantee to be a strong deck next year (depending on what is Core and what else is printed). And frankly, avoiding printing or including certain cards to avoid a class being too powerful is nothing new.
To be clear I am not, was not, nor have I ever argued the card is fine as printed. I personally think it should not deal fatigue damage to the opponent. But I am also hopeful that without certain tools it will drop in power level and barely be an issue. When it rotates they’ll be forced to address the effect because there are too many things in Wild that make the QL easy and fast. And they can’t leave a Wild only card banned in Wild.
So as I said before, I’m hopeful they will avoid adding too much new support for certain things while pushing for more midrange style and/or control strategies. And I am not going to freak out over any deck being too OP before any of this year’s cards are even announced, and I’m certainly not going to complain about a single card “warping” a future meta when no one outside the dev team knows what that meta might look like
Interestingly, I was able to complete the Priest Mi'da Achievement in Practice Mode, which made it a whole lot easier. However, none of the others I tested after stumbling upon that got any progression that way. Seems to just be a Mi'da thing.
I just hope the "more board-based gameplay" doesn't mean we are going back to aggro, aggro aggro decks. I don't trust the designers behind hearthstone.
Wanna make it more board based? All you need to do is to not print so many mana reduction stuff like Siphon Mana, don't print infinite damage, bring back Loatheb to standard, and perhaps even Unseen Saboteur and Dirty Rat
I dont have anything against OTK decks, when it takes actual effort to win with those things. I take great pride and pleasure at playing malygos rogue 2 years ago because I earned my wins. The whole solitaire meta was only aggravating because there's literally nothing you can do to stop them and as a result they just ignore your board because it doesn't matter. Its not about board, its about interaction. I get annoyed the same way by Sorcerer's Gambit as I do with the worst iterations of face hunter and ramp druid, because these decks don't lose, they just don't win.
I still dont understand why so many people get worked up so much about this fatigue issue with questlock, as though as there's some kind of unwritten rule on how an opponent should be beaten. What difference does it make if its fatigue or death from Garrote bleeds or bombs? The Demon Seed allows it to happen but its hardly a one card show, the whole thing cant function without the help of other cards like Backfire or Hand of Gul'dan.
The main reason why OTK decks are cancerous in general has always been the same: mana reduction and overwhelming draw power. How they kill you is rarely a cause for concern.
THIS. THIS is why the warrior questline is the worst designed card ever printed. they took a perfectly good and powerful deck in pirate warrior and gave it an untouchable minion that cranks out 3 layers of rng every turn for the rest of the game.
shoutouts to blizzard for epicly nerfing the warrior and hunter questlines instead of just banning them from the format. one mini-set later and wild is still completely dominated by RNG warrior and cookie-clicker hunter is on the rise again, but apprentice decks were definitely the ones that needed to be hit the hardest. i legitimately have never seen a more incompetent balance team in any competitive game. wizards of the coast has made some notoriously bad balance decisions with MTG and even THEY would've had this solved by now.
non stop eh? I haven't posted here in months. i was not exaggerating anything here, I was facing mostly old decks with no new cards for two days straight. and no, current control decks do not counter aggro.
Non stop in the fact that every time you do post, they're all similar to this.
Non stop in the sense that I have not seen you post anything positive once.
Current control decks absolutely do counter aggro, what? Libram paladin, quest shaman, fel demon hunter. All of them have an extremely easy time against priests, hunters and warriors that you've been whining about.
most of what i"ve posted here has been in the salt thread. what of it?
idk about fel demon hunter but libram pally and quest shaman are NOT control decks. quest shaman is a tempo deck (arguably aggro, just not hyper aggro kill you on 5), and libram paladin is also a tempo deck.
Due to the popularity of Kazakusan there are a bunch of decks that only play Kazakusan (or relatively few other minions). All you have to do is assemble the combo of [Hearthstone Card (Don't Stand in the Fire) Not Found] + T[Hearthstone Card (otemic Reflection) Not Found] and it should be simple. Kazakusan Warrior is probably the best target for this because they run like 4 other minions max and can't do much else the turn they play Kazakusan.
I did it really quickly using the spells from Kobold Taskmaster. Being able to cheaply give an enemy minion 2 or 4 health means you don't have to rely on the opponent doing anything specific. If you use spells from both Taskmasters you can even buff a lowly 2 mana minion to 10 health.
I feel like the way you mention incentives in your post you think they are adding a reward for winning the board. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying, or how you are saying it, but I can't imagine that being the case. The incentives seemed to clearly just be cards in the Core set and 2022 expansions that will (hopefully) gear the meta towards more board-centric strategies. So they could reduce the amount of burn spells and turn towards more control or minion generating spells. They can reduce or eliminate mana cheating shenanigans, maybe not give Druids any ramp outside of the Guff hero card, etc, to reduce the presence of OTK style decks.
In the example of Demon Seed Warlock, they are losing some of the cards that helped them really stand out, such as Backfire, Raise Dead, Flesh Giant for the sudden big threats, and even the neutral Tour Guide that helped by giving them a discount on the hero power. While they will still have some self damaging cards, they might have to try and get Bloodbound Imp to stick for quest advancement, which you then have at least a chance to remove it before they get the benefit of the self damage. They could potentially take Flame Imp out of Core as well if they feel it necessary to limit Warlock's self damage ability. Not to mention the deck also loses Hysteria as a board clear option, and all the Soul mechanics from Scholomance will be gone for added healing.
So I feel that there are potentially a lot of things that could come from the new year. Will some powerful stuff from this year's meta still exist? Of course! Anything that doesn't lose too much of the core it needs will find replacements and keep trucking along. But even just a few loses here and there could knock certain decks from T1 status to either T2 or even T3. Will some players always try to find the most broken deck possible with the new cards, no matter how hard the HS team tries to make a board centric meta? Of course! Cards may change, but people rarely do, and many will gravitate towards the fastest or strongest strategies rather than trying something new or fun. But that's their right to do so if it's what they want to do.
Regardless, I'm not going to judge next year too much until I see what they are printing. And realistically I play more Wild than Standard, so while I will appreciate their efforts for a more board centric meta in Standard, I can only hope that Wild gets more board centric too without too much crazy power creep going on.
I hope they are not attempting to please everyone with this change. The people who complained about losing to solitaire decks are going to complain about not being able to go first or not drawing on curve when their opponent did.
Edit: Also pointing out, in a board centric meta when your opponent has the board you cannot get it back, which honestly isn't too different than watching your opponent cycle through their deck and kill you with their own fatigue.
The thing that worries me with this comment is that they don't entirely say the way in which they intend to go about adding 'incentive' for board based game play. If they don't intend to remove the mechanics that allow games to be put on a clock so consistently then are they going to have to power creep the hell out of these decks in order to ensure that these combo decks can't out pace them? I am not saying this is the plan but I don't see how they can assure us of anything without that being the case. What if they add all these incentives but players just find it is easier to kill people with a guaranteed win-con instead of actually fighting for the board? I don't really want the warlock quest to warp the meta so that they have to always be trying to out pace it in some way when something like that should never have existed in the first place. I don't even know if the warlock quest is that prevalent since I stopped playing all that often, but I do know that if it is bad it is because they have been forcing it to be bad rather than just addressing the problem and moving past it.
Kazakus, Golem Shaper's achievement was a hairy one to complete, I have to be honest, especially because you don't know which effects you're yet to pick.
My suggestion is to combine it with Brann Bronzebeard in Wild for more Golem generation and Raise Dead for even more Kazakus triggers - this way you should get really close to completing it.
In case you're not very familiar with Wild, Rogue with Shadowstep seems the most efficient way to get the job done.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
They should increase the starting health and deck size to 40. I'd love to have longer games where I have a chance to play bigger cards.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
The amount of card draw in the game right now is the biggest thing. The more card draw, the more matches begin to feel samey, as you can always guarantee you'll draw the cards you need, usually at the right time. Hearthstone has a smaller deck size than most CCG/TCGs, so card draw has a much bigger impact here.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
If they want to make things board-based they'd need to make midrange viable. A LOT of shit needs to change to make midrange viable.
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
switch to control to counter aggo -> only face better control/greedy AF value
okay hearthstone. i guess i suck it up, play aggro face decks, and walk into traffic.
edit: faced ~ 10 greedy control decks in a row. okay. switch to kazakstan druid, immediately face OTK mage. makes sense.
next game with kaza druid, face libram paladin, a deck i'd not faced in the previous 10 games.
okay switch back to control warrior. face kaza druid. what is going on.
i wish i was exaggerating. i am ONLY queuing into decks that hard counter me. lost to kaza druid as warrior then immediately faced OTK mage again. switch to kaza druid, face demon seed, twice.
downvoted for posting appropriate content in the correct place. "message boards for everyone else, but fuck this guy in particular" right?
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
Ehhh, we'll see when we'll see it. I don't mind bringing back board-based things (I really enjoy control decks) but I ain't gonna trust on their "putting effort to make things work" thing, we've got bamboozled so many times like this (Or at least in my opinion) that I'll simply wait to see if their putting effort will work (Which I hope will)
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
They just need to tune down the number of spells that can go face and get rid of charge like they originally intended.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
I have next to no issues on mobile and almost never have. It’s a hardware issue.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
Aggro is the OG solitaire so it was hilarious when aggro players where claiming that about recent decks.
*gasp* “they’re not wasting time with minions clearing my board while I go face and would have ignored theirs! That’s so solitaire!”
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
Hard no on Loatheb. It’ll just get used by aggro like it does in wild so you can’t clear their board on turn 5 when most aoe tends to kick in.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
The meta will only be warped around the card if the deck is still powerful and top tier. But with a loss of multiple self damage/draw tools it is no guarantee to be a strong deck next year (depending on what is Core and what else is printed). And frankly, avoiding printing or including certain cards to avoid a class being too powerful is nothing new.
To be clear I am not, was not, nor have I ever argued the card is fine as printed. I personally think it should not deal fatigue damage to the opponent. But I am also hopeful that without certain tools it will drop in power level and barely be an issue. When it rotates they’ll be forced to address the effect because there are too many things in Wild that make the QL easy and fast. And they can’t leave a Wild only card banned in Wild.
So as I said before, I’m hopeful they will avoid adding too much new support for certain things while pushing for more midrange style and/or control strategies. And I am not going to freak out over any deck being too OP before any of this year’s cards are even announced, and I’m certainly not going to complain about a single card “warping” a future meta when no one outside the dev team knows what that meta might look like
How to Complete Onyxia's Lair's Achievements for Rewards Track Experience - Great Deck Lists!
Interestingly, I was able to complete the Priest Mi'da Achievement in Practice Mode, which made it a whole lot easier. However, none of the others I tested after stumbling upon that got any progression that way. Seems to just be a Mi'da thing.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
I just hope the "more board-based gameplay" doesn't mean we are going back to aggro, aggro aggro decks. I don't trust the designers behind hearthstone.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
Wanna make it more board based? All you need to do is to not print so many mana reduction stuff like Siphon Mana, don't print infinite damage, bring back Loatheb to standard, and perhaps even Unseen Saboteur and Dirty Rat
Thereafter you may print as many Sorcerer's Gambits and The Demon Seed as you wish.
I dont have anything against OTK decks, when it takes actual effort to win with those things. I take great pride and pleasure at playing malygos rogue 2 years ago because I earned my wins. The whole solitaire meta was only aggravating because there's literally nothing you can do to stop them and as a result they just ignore your board because it doesn't matter. Its not about board, its about interaction. I get annoyed the same way by Sorcerer's Gambit as I do with the worst iterations of face hunter and ramp druid, because these decks don't lose, they just don't win.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
I still dont understand why so many people get worked up so much about this fatigue issue with questlock, as though as there's some kind of unwritten rule on how an opponent should be beaten. What difference does it make if its fatigue or death from Garrote bleeds or bombs? The Demon Seed allows it to happen but its hardly a one card show, the whole thing cant function without the help of other cards like Backfire or Hand of Gul'dan.
The main reason why OTK decks are cancerous in general has always been the same: mana reduction and overwhelming draw power. How they kill you is rarely a cause for concern.
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
THIS. THIS is why the warrior questline is the worst designed card ever printed. they took a perfectly good and powerful deck in pirate warrior and gave it an untouchable minion that cranks out 3 layers of rng every turn for the rest of the game.Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
shoutouts to blizzard for epicly nerfing the warrior and hunter questlines instead of just banning them from the format. one mini-set later and wild is still completely dominated by RNG warrior and cookie-clicker hunter is on the rise again, but apprentice decks were definitely the ones that needed to be hit the hardest. i legitimately have never seen a more incompetent balance team in any competitive game. wizards of the coast has made some notoriously bad balance decisions with MTG and even THEY would've had this solved by now.
Meta evolution
most of what i"ve posted here has been in the salt thread. what of it?
idk about fel demon hunter but libram pally and quest shaman are NOT control decks. quest shaman is a tempo deck (arguably aggro, just not hyper aggro kill you on 5), and libram paladin is also a tempo deck.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
Sure, but again, you are warping all strategies around one card, that removes one of basic HS limitations - fatique.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
I just want the client to work. Is that so much to ask? Stabilize the damn client on PC and mobile please for the love of Yog.
Achievement Hunting: Onyxia's Lair edition (fuck this one btw, I hate it)
I did it really quickly using the spells from Kobold Taskmaster. Being able to cheaply give an enemy minion 2 or 4 health means you don't have to rely on the opponent doing anything specific. If you use spells from both Taskmasters you can even buff a lowly 2 mana minion to 10 health.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
I feel like the way you mention incentives in your post you think they are adding a reward for winning the board. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying, or how you are saying it, but I can't imagine that being the case. The incentives seemed to clearly just be cards in the Core set and 2022 expansions that will (hopefully) gear the meta towards more board-centric strategies. So they could reduce the amount of burn spells and turn towards more control or minion generating spells. They can reduce or eliminate mana cheating shenanigans, maybe not give Druids any ramp outside of the Guff hero card, etc, to reduce the presence of OTK style decks.
In the example of Demon Seed Warlock, they are losing some of the cards that helped them really stand out, such as Backfire, Raise Dead, Flesh Giant for the sudden big threats, and even the neutral Tour Guide that helped by giving them a discount on the hero power. While they will still have some self damaging cards, they might have to try and get Bloodbound Imp to stick for quest advancement, which you then have at least a chance to remove it before they get the benefit of the self damage. They could potentially take Flame Imp out of Core as well if they feel it necessary to limit Warlock's self damage ability. Not to mention the deck also loses Hysteria as a board clear option, and all the Soul mechanics from Scholomance will be gone for added healing.
So I feel that there are potentially a lot of things that could come from the new year. Will some powerful stuff from this year's meta still exist? Of course! Anything that doesn't lose too much of the core it needs will find replacements and keep trucking along. But even just a few loses here and there could knock certain decks from T1 status to either T2 or even T3. Will some players always try to find the most broken deck possible with the new cards, no matter how hard the HS team tries to make a board centric meta? Of course! Cards may change, but people rarely do, and many will gravitate towards the fastest or strongest strategies rather than trying something new or fun. But that's their right to do so if it's what they want to do.
Regardless, I'm not going to judge next year too much until I see what they are printing. And realistically I play more Wild than Standard, so while I will appreciate their efforts for a more board centric meta in Standard, I can only hope that Wild gets more board centric too without too much crazy power creep going on.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
I hope they are not attempting to please everyone with this change. The people who complained about losing to solitaire decks are going to complain about not being able to go first or not drawing on curve when their opponent did.
Edit: Also pointing out, in a board centric meta when your opponent has the board you cannot get it back, which honestly isn't too different than watching your opponent cycle through their deck and kill you with their own fatigue.
Blizzard Devs Confirm Next Year Will See More Board-based Gameplay, More Variety in Standard Hearthstone
The thing that worries me with this comment is that they don't entirely say the way in which they intend to go about adding 'incentive' for board based game play. If they don't intend to remove the mechanics that allow games to be put on a clock so consistently then are they going to have to power creep the hell out of these decks in order to ensure that these combo decks can't out pace them? I am not saying this is the plan but I don't see how they can assure us of anything without that being the case. What if they add all these incentives but players just find it is easier to kill people with a guaranteed win-con instead of actually fighting for the board? I don't really want the warlock quest to warp the meta so that they have to always be trying to out pace it in some way when something like that should never have existed in the first place. I don't even know if the warlock quest is that prevalent since I stopped playing all that often, but I do know that if it is bad it is because they have been forcing it to be bad rather than just addressing the problem and moving past it.
Bird Rogue
Portrait Investigator Scabbs
Cardback Year of the Raven
How to Complete Onyxia's Lair's Achievements for Rewards Track Experience - Great Deck Lists!
Glad you appreciate our guides.
Kazakus, Golem Shaper's achievement was a hairy one to complete, I have to be honest, especially because you don't know which effects you're yet to pick.
My suggestion is to combine it with Brann Bronzebeard in Wild for more Golem generation and Raise Dead for even more Kazakus triggers - this way you should get really close to completing it.
In case you're not very familiar with Wild, Rogue with Shadowstep seems the most efficient way to get the job done.