Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but aren't there rewards based on how high the external rating is? If so, that's where the 'meaningful stakes' come in, and its comparable to ranked in traditional HS, where your rank and MMR can be very different.
I got 2 packs this weekend for watching Grandmasters playoffs, and previously the 2 packs for watching the Mercenaries reveal stream, so it doesn't seem related to esports.
you already pretty much said everything in this thread and I fully agree. I don't think it is a bad mode, but it nevertheless feels like a missed opportunity. My biggest point personally is the gameplay or the lack of it. Battles always play out pretty much the same with little variance. Instead of squeezing 50+ mercs in the mode they should have put a little more focus on the actual gameplay and mechanics. Really can't see me spending more than 5 bucks on it in its current form. On the other hand it neatly fits in the recent HS development: Ramp up of monetization with flat or even declining content quality. Again, it is not bad but I would certainly expect more from Blizzard if they want my money.
I think they did it because 1) the matchmaking is so specific in trying to make “fair” match-ups and 2) they may not have been sure of how well received the mode would be. Specifically the PvP portion. On launch I had quick matchmaking and clearly was against a real opponent. Last night, one day post launch, all but maybe one PvP match took forever to find an opponent and were likely AI.
I’ve been having fun with it, but honestly not sure how much lasting power it’ll have with me beyond a certain point. Will need to see what kind of updates Mercs gets down the road.
Firstly, I really really hope that somehow this thread reaches a dev working on mercenaries. Most (if not all) of the points made here are legit and well mannered and seem to come from people that not only know what they are talking about (design-wise) but also care for this game and would like to see it improved.
Now, I've played a few hours of mercenaries so far, didn't pre-order anything but I did buy the 5e bundle. I haven't tried the PvP mode at all yet and I'm around level 25 at Felwood. Based on that (little) progress so far here are my thoughts:
A) The rogue - like aspect is nearly non existent. Great roguelikes tend to get deliberately frustrating at times in various ways. Random and unexpected events that can kill or disable your characters or deny of you of hard earned loot/treasure for the rest of the run or punishing you for going for that 30/70 % chance. The list can go on forever. But that is why said games can feel SO satisfying when beating them. They give you this feeling of overcoming all the odds through correct choices and strategy along with a fair blessing of rng and they left you feeling exhausted. I was thinking that frustration is not something that the light-hearted Hearthstone environment is aiming towards but then I remembered that content like Naxxramas Heroic (Maexxna much?) exists. It feels like Mercenaries has no balls on purpose. Its pretty much linear, it doesn't feel punishing at all and it doesn't surprise you in no way whatsoever. Yes, I know it's game that is not roguelike on it's core but it rather has roguelike elements, BUT, in my opinion it misses on having the elements that make roguelikes well, roguelikes.
B) The game is built on UI that is counter intuitive. Picture this: You just finished an elite fight and you got 3 awesome treasures you can choose from. You want to make a meaningful choice based on the remaining fights on your run, the treasures that you already got and the info about other mercs on your squad (race, equipment, stats etc.). Well, you can't access any of those things because choosing a treasure uses a discover-a-card like mechanic that is not minimizable, forcing you to choose right there and now based only on things you can remember. I found myself in this kind of situation 3-4 times already. Even worse, the choice didn't even matter much in the end (point A) but if eventually the choice does matter we should be able to access all that information.
C) Aesthetics. Well, pretty much what everybody else mentioned before me. This doesn't concern me much though. The hearthstone team has a lot of good artists and developers that in the long run will improve said aspect of the game.
I will be getting to current end game content and to PvP soon. My opinion will be more complete by then, but for now despite the above issues I enjoy Mercenaries. The collecting aspect is fun and I don't mind the grind. But for sure, for the game to become a staple a lot of issues have to be addressed mainly game-play wise.
I've been taking it pretty slow, having only got a couple of bounties into Felwood so far. I have been toying around with lots of different characters though, and not just focusing on 1 team, so I have been making the most of the Barrens while it is level-appropriate, including doing a few of the Heroic bounties.
Overall I'm enjoying it, and have seen myself bite off more than I can chew so I'm not labeling the PvE as too easy. As with Pokemon, it looks like you'll have an easy time if you stick with the same 6 characters throughout, but that's probably because it is balanced to accommodate players occasionally bringing in someone new and lowering their average level.
I know the board being empty is one of the go-to complains, but I don't even notice it when I'm playing so that doesn't bother me. Nor does the limited voice acting or the so-so animations. I guess I find the gameplay itself engaging enough to not need the aesthetics to pull any weight, which makes sense given how much time I have happily spent playing Pokemon over the years.
I'm glad I didn't buy any pre-orders though, and have only bought the welcome bundle because it's too efficient to pass up. While it would be nice in the short-term to have a few more epic and legendary characters to make use of some synergies, I also like that getting those characters over time gives me goals to work towards. Whether that ends up more of a grind than I am willing to take part in remains to be seen.
Finally, regarding the grind, I have little to no interest in PvP, and might end up ignoring it altogether. As such, I'm not daunted by the number of coins it takes to max out characters, since I don't see any need to do so. Heck, I never once cared to EV train Pokemon either; they just got whatever EVs they happened to get naturally and that was good enough for my purposes.
So yeah, it gets a thumbs up from me, though I acknowledge that is helped a lot by being the type of player I am.
hearing 100th time the same voice from a merc is annoying
I do not know how to check the abilitiesmof enemy before/at the beginning of battle
Otherwise it is very repetitive and not really exciting, I may get bored very soon.
You can check what the enemy in PvE is going to do just by scrolling on its pic. It'll show you what they will do, and the speed of the attacks on that turn. Far as I know you cant actually check the enemy's full abilities roster, but no doubt at some point some website will catalog it out.
As for PvP, no clue at all. I think its the similar pokemon deal, where you cant really see your opponent's list of attacks.
Actually I would like to know all abilities at the beginning of battle, so I can select the appropriate team. Also, this would help to plan the battle - for example whom to take out first based on the next moves
Most if not all turn based games dont actually display the enemies' full moveset. Its specifically designed to introduce a learning curve of sorts, to gradually learn what your opponent is capable of and to act according to what presents itself. In any case, Im sure at some point someone will list it all down, so we only have to wait for the wiki to populate.
Hi, I got a pretty good start with my Druid. Went 7-0 at first and from then on it was lose lose lose. Definetly would have gone farther if I hadn't missplayed in critical moments. For example playing Gentleman's Tophat on my only minion and then using hero power on it ^^'
Thank you for all the early support on Mercenaries! I love looking at what kind of parties others have thought of. It would be nice if there was some way to either import or manually select which Mercenaries you own, so you can quickly see if you can build a certain party. Thank you in advance!
For Substitutes: Malf - Guff - Bru'kan are the main ones I'd say you need due to the efficiency of the example Turn 1. The whole comp is built around sped up Nature snipe damage though, so as soon as you stray from that it will get a lot weaker - I tried Thrall, and unless you've levelled up his Doomhammer he just won't cut it really, as having to actually attack into people and take retaliation damage isn't great. Cariel would be an easy sub for Cairne, as she will be a frustrating taunt to come into play from the bench - maybe even Uther since you can target taunt. You could then roll into a Human or Holy build and bring in Anduin as a substitute for Brightwing's heals, or Tirion to frustrate with Divine Shields, or other humans like Jaina, Lich, Varian. Likewise, you could even run Alexstrasza & Warmaster Voone with Brightwing on the bench to create a little threatening Dragon package. PS: For more visual merc news, follow me on Instagram.
hearing 100th time the same voice from a merc is annoying
I do not know how to check the abilitiesmof enemy before/at the beginning of battle
Otherwise it is very repetitive and not really exciting, I may get bored very soon.
You can check what the enemy in PvE is going to do just by scrolling on its pic. It'll show you what they will do, and the speed of the attacks on that turn. Far as I know you cant actually check the enemy's full abilities roster, but no doubt at some point some website will catalog it out.
As for PvP, no clue at all. I think its the similar pokemon deal, where you cant really see your opponent's list of attacks.
Actually I would like to know all abilities at the beginning of battle, so I can select the appropriate team. Also, this would help to plan the battle - for example whom to take out first based on the next moves
Thanks for the great team and guide! Would it be possible to add a small section about which (especially epic and legendary) mercs are absolutely necessary and which can be replaced, and by which other mercs? Look forward to trying it out!
hearing 100th time the same voice from a merc is annoying
I do not know how to check the abilitiesmof enemy before/at the beginning of battle
Otherwise it is very repetitive and not really exciting, I may get bored very soon.
You can check what the enemy in PvE is going to do just by scrolling on its pic. It'll show you what they will do, and the speed of the attacks on that turn. Far as I know you cant actually check the enemy's full abilities roster, but no doubt at some point some website will catalog it out.
As for PvP, no clue at all. I think its the similar pokemon deal, where you cant really see your opponent's list of attacks.
And one last thing; the games quite unimpressive in terms of aesthetics. A small nitpick to be sure, but it is what it is.
So from a design perspective, this game was designed purely for mobile phones and not for desktop. There's a lot of unused space during battles with the board very bare and non-interactive compared to the traditional game boards we used to.
Come to think of it though, the Stormwind game board itself is the least interactive board we've got, so maybe blizzard isn't bothered with aesthetics anymore 😢
Im pretty sure most mobile games these days have plenty of stuff going on and should have no problems filling the screen with animated doodads. I mean, most phones nowadays are fairly robust enough to act as emulators for earlier console games.
If I were to take a guess I think its a deliberate aesthetic choice because its supposed to be a gladiator's arena, which is usually just a flat field. The problem with going with this near realistic take is that its very boring to look at. And of course the game itself is modeled after its progenitor hearthstone, so its only an unfortunate mix of an empty board with flat characters.
It really doesn't compare well with raid shadow legends (which is fully 3d) or even with slay the spire (which though flat, at very least the characters look more than just a pasted on portrait). But these are similar complains early on in battlegrounds, so we'll have to see whether the general audience can look past it
Also, I forgot to stress how important spotting a big individual opponents merc turn coming up, and disrupting it with Bru'kan's Muddy Footing (next ability is 6 slower) which again, combos perfectly into Guff's brambles. It means you can usually kill a big threat before it has a chance to pop off, rather than going for the slower greed of the higher Bru'kan DPS abilities. As for BTX and really aggressive boards; they will usually never expect you to taunt Guff (who even plays Guff?) so he's a pretty great counter to it alongside Malfurions roots - and when Cairne comes in you'll usually have the option of two taunts to confuse them. PS: For more visual merc news, follow me on Instagram.
Incinerate Them - A Full Guide to Piloting Galakrond Warlock on the Wildest of Wednesdays
Great job again ! Thank you :)
Hearthstone Developer Insights - How Matchmaking Works in Mercenaries PVP Mode, The Fighting Pit
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but aren't there rewards based on how high the external rating is? If so, that's where the 'meaningful stakes' come in, and its comparable to ranked in traditional HS, where your rank and MMR can be very different.
Mercenaries 21.4 Patch Known Issues Hotfixes Have Arrived - Battlegrounds Ratings, Bounty Fixes, and More
I got 2 packs this weekend for watching Grandmasters playoffs, and previously the 2 packs for watching the Mercenaries reveal stream, so it doesn't seem related to esports.
This is getting very strange...
So what does everyone think?
Hi there,
you already pretty much said everything in this thread and I fully agree. I don't think it is a bad mode, but it nevertheless feels like a missed opportunity. My biggest point personally is the gameplay or the lack of it. Battles always play out pretty much the same with little variance. Instead of squeezing 50+ mercs in the mode they should have put a little more focus on the actual gameplay and mechanics. Really can't see me spending more than 5 bucks on it in its current form. On the other hand it neatly fits in the recent HS development: Ramp up of monetization with flat or even declining content quality. Again, it is not bad but I would certainly expect more from Blizzard if they want my money.
My rating would be 5 out of 10.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Szafirmag#2937
Region: EU
Trade Only?: Yes
Hearthstone Developer Insights - How Matchmaking Works in Mercenaries PVP Mode, The Fighting Pit
I think they did it because 1) the matchmaking is so specific in trying to make “fair” match-ups and 2) they may not have been sure of how well received the mode would be. Specifically the PvP portion. On launch I had quick matchmaking and clearly was against a real opponent. Last night, one day post launch, all but maybe one PvP match took forever to find an opponent and were likely AI.
I’ve been having fun with it, but honestly not sure how much lasting power it’ll have with me beyond a certain point. Will need to see what kind of updates Mercs gets down the road.
Valeera's Bag of Burgled Spells
Worst brawl EVER
So what does everyone think?
Firstly, I really really hope that somehow this thread reaches a dev working on mercenaries. Most (if not all) of the points made here are legit and well mannered and seem to come from people that not only know what they are talking about (design-wise) but also care for this game and would like to see it improved.
Now, I've played a few hours of mercenaries so far, didn't pre-order anything but I did buy the 5e bundle. I haven't tried the PvP mode at all yet and I'm around level 25 at Felwood. Based on that (little) progress so far here are my thoughts:
A) The rogue - like aspect is nearly non existent.
Great roguelikes tend to get deliberately frustrating at times in various ways. Random and unexpected events that can kill or disable your characters or deny of you of hard earned loot/treasure for the rest of the run or punishing you for going for that 30/70 % chance. The list can go on forever. But that is why said games can feel SO satisfying when beating them. They give you this feeling of overcoming all the odds through correct choices and strategy along with a fair blessing of rng and they left you feeling exhausted. I was thinking that frustration is not something that the light-hearted Hearthstone environment is aiming towards but then I remembered that content like Naxxramas Heroic (Maexxna much?) exists.
It feels like Mercenaries has no balls on purpose.
Its pretty much linear, it doesn't feel punishing at all and it doesn't surprise you in no way whatsoever.
Yes, I know it's game that is not roguelike on it's core but it rather has roguelike elements, BUT, in my opinion it misses on having the elements that make roguelikes well, roguelikes.
B) The game is built on UI that is counter intuitive.
Picture this: You just finished an elite fight and you got 3 awesome treasures you can choose from. You want to make a meaningful choice based on the remaining fights on your run, the treasures that you already got and the info about other mercs on your squad (race, equipment, stats etc.). Well, you can't access any of those things because choosing a treasure uses a discover-a-card like mechanic that is not minimizable, forcing you to choose right there and now based only on things you can remember. I found myself in this kind of situation 3-4 times already. Even worse, the choice didn't even matter much in the end (point A) but if eventually the choice does matter we should be able to access all that information.
C) Aesthetics.
Well, pretty much what everybody else mentioned before me. This doesn't concern me much though. The hearthstone team has a lot of good artists and developers that in the long run will improve said aspect of the game.
I will be getting to current end game content and to PvP soon. My opinion will be more complete by then, but for now despite the above issues I enjoy Mercenaries. The collecting aspect is fun and I don't mind the grind. But for sure, for the game to become a staple a lot of issues have to be addressed mainly game-play wise.
So what does everyone think?
I've been taking it pretty slow, having only got a couple of bounties into Felwood so far. I have been toying around with lots of different characters though, and not just focusing on 1 team, so I have been making the most of the Barrens while it is level-appropriate, including doing a few of the Heroic bounties.
Overall I'm enjoying it, and have seen myself bite off more than I can chew so I'm not labeling the PvE as too easy. As with Pokemon, it looks like you'll have an easy time if you stick with the same 6 characters throughout, but that's probably because it is balanced to accommodate players occasionally bringing in someone new and lowering their average level.
I know the board being empty is one of the go-to complains, but I don't even notice it when I'm playing so that doesn't bother me. Nor does the limited voice acting or the so-so animations. I guess I find the gameplay itself engaging enough to not need the aesthetics to pull any weight, which makes sense given how much time I have happily spent playing Pokemon over the years.
I'm glad I didn't buy any pre-orders though, and have only bought the welcome bundle because it's too efficient to pass up. While it would be nice in the short-term to have a few more epic and legendary characters to make use of some synergies, I also like that getting those characters over time gives me goals to work towards. Whether that ends up more of a grind than I am willing to take part in remains to be seen.
Finally, regarding the grind, I have little to no interest in PvP, and might end up ignoring it altogether. As such, I'm not daunted by the number of coins it takes to max out characters, since I don't see any need to do so. Heck, I never once cared to EV train Pokemon either; they just got whatever EVs they happened to get naturally and that was good enough for my purposes.
So yeah, it gets a thumbs up from me, though I acknowledge that is helped a lot by being the type of player I am.
So what does everyone think?
Most if not all turn based games dont actually display the enemies' full moveset. Its specifically designed to introduce a learning curve of sorts, to gradually learn what your opponent is capable of and to act according to what presents itself. In any case, Im sure at some point someone will list it all down, so we only have to wait for the wiki to populate.
Master Duelist 1.3: Deathly Hallows - Submission & Discussion Thread
Hi, I got a pretty good start with my Druid. Went 7-0 at first and from then on it was lose lose lose. Definetly would have gone farther if I hadn't missplayed in critical moments. For example playing Gentleman's Tophat on my only minion and then using hero power on it ^^'
Anyways, here is the proof.
Mercenaries collection
Hi,
Thank you for all the early support on Mercenaries! I love looking at what kind of parties others have thought of. It would be nice if there was some way to either import or manually select which Mercenaries you own, so you can quickly see if you can build a certain party. Thank you in advance!
Anduin Wrynn
this is so sad that only one bounty gives anduin coins, and i have to collect 500 coint to craft him...
Brightwing
If you want a build to try with this merc, try my "Bro'ken" composition, currently blasting through PVE & undefeated in the PVP training grounds. Includes guide: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/mercenaries/parties/32-broken/
Cairne Bloodhoof
If you want a build to try with this merc, try my "Bro'ken" composition, currently blasting through PVE & undefeated in the PVP training grounds. Includes guide: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/mercenaries/parties/32-broken/
Guff Runetotem
If you want a build to try with this merc, try my "Bro'ken" composition, currently blasting through PVE & undefeated in the PVP training grounds. Includes guide: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/mercenaries/parties/32-broken/
Malfurion Stormrage
If you want a build to try with this merc, try my "Bro'ken" composition, currently blasting through PVE & undefeated in the PVP training grounds. Includes guide: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/mercenaries/parties/32-broken/
Bru'kan
If you want a build to try with this merc, try my "Bro'ken" composition, currently blasting through PVE & undefeated in the PVP training grounds. Includes guide: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/mercenaries/parties/32-broken/
Bro'ken
For Substitutes: Malf - Guff - Bru'kan are the main ones I'd say you need due to the efficiency of the example Turn 1. The whole comp is built around sped up Nature snipe damage though, so as soon as you stray from that it will get a lot weaker - I tried Thrall, and unless you've levelled up his Doomhammer he just won't cut it really, as having to actually attack into people and take retaliation damage isn't great. Cariel would be an easy sub for Cairne, as she will be a frustrating taunt to come into play from the bench - maybe even Uther since you can target taunt. You could then roll into a Human or Holy build and bring in Anduin as a substitute for Brightwing's heals, or Tirion to frustrate with Divine Shields, or other humans like Jaina, Lich, Varian. Likewise, you could even run Alexstrasza & Warmaster Voone with Brightwing on the bench to create a little threatening Dragon package. PS: For more visual merc news, follow me on Instagram.
So what does everyone think?
Actually I would like to know all abilities at the beginning of battle, so I can select the appropriate team. Also, this would help to plan the battle - for example whom to take out first based on the next moves
Bro'ken
Thanks for the great team and guide! Would it be possible to add a small section about which (especially epic and legendary) mercs are absolutely necessary and which can be replaced, and by which other mercs? Look forward to trying it out!
So what does everyone think?
You can check what the enemy in PvE is going to do just by scrolling on its pic. It'll show you what they will do, and the speed of the attacks on that turn. Far as I know you cant actually check the enemy's full abilities roster, but no doubt at some point some website will catalog it out.
As for PvP, no clue at all. I think its the similar pokemon deal, where you cant really see your opponent's list of attacks.
So what does everyone think?
Im pretty sure most mobile games these days have plenty of stuff going on and should have no problems filling the screen with animated doodads. I mean, most phones nowadays are fairly robust enough to act as emulators for earlier console games.
If I were to take a guess I think its a deliberate aesthetic choice because its supposed to be a gladiator's arena, which is usually just a flat field. The problem with going with this near realistic take is that its very boring to look at. And of course the game itself is modeled after its progenitor hearthstone, so its only an unfortunate mix of an empty board with flat characters.
It really doesn't compare well with raid shadow legends (which is fully 3d) or even with slay the spire (which though flat, at very least the characters look more than just a pasted on portrait). But these are similar complains early on in battlegrounds, so we'll have to see whether the general audience can look past it
Mercenaries 21.4 Patch Known Issues Hotfixes Have Arrived - Battlegrounds Ratings, Bounty Fixes, and More
After patch, daily quests completion is broken in Casual mode =(
Bro'ken
Also, I forgot to stress how important spotting a big individual opponents merc turn coming up, and disrupting it with Bru'kan's Muddy Footing (next ability is 6 slower) which again, combos perfectly into Guff's brambles. It means you can usually kill a big threat before it has a chance to pop off, rather than going for the slower greed of the higher Bru'kan DPS abilities. As for BTX and really aggressive boards; they will usually never expect you to taunt Guff (who even plays Guff?) so he's a pretty great counter to it alongside Malfurions roots - and when Cairne comes in you'll usually have the option of two taunts to confuse them. PS: For more visual merc news, follow me on Instagram.