After watching the complete Mercenaries video series by Regiskillbin, I'm actually quite hyped for the mode and can't wait to play it! It really seems to have some depth regarding team composition and tactics. I'm still concerned about the monetization and I won't preorder anything as long as I can't playtest the mode. I think I'll stick to f2p in Mercenaries and see how far I can get.
The 5 mana 7/7 stat line is purely thematic. HS has a history of giving cards thematic stats and costs for the sake of looking nice (see 4/12 dragons, LoE and their SoU counterparts, etc). Anyways, I think that it is kind of pointless to not create content like the mini set because even if they don't the critical mass of impossible to balance cards will be reached and I doubt that 60(ish) cards will make that big of a difference getting there in the first place. I do think that you are right; eventually, this game will end up like Yugioh where there are so many cards it is impossible to balance correctly (though that is partly because of the standard format Yugioh uses).
Fact is that the devs build decks based on "fun" and much slower than the decks can be built. So for example in mage quest deck recipe they put minions. Silly devs.
These decks are definitely made for the newer/more casual player to use/change/improve upon. I seriously doubt that in all their play testing the best deck they could come up with were those recipes… at least I hope so lol
While I refuse to believe that they decided to fuck up every single game mode just to push the new toy, I remember that Battlegrounds' release was Doom in the Tomb's Evolve Shaman era.
Wrong. The devs ruined the standard, wild, and battlegrounds meta so everyone would be so bored that they'd try out mercenaries. Actual galactic brain.
Take the Questlines for example. I feel the dev team didn't realize how easy they were to complete, that's why the rewards are 5 mana 7/7's on top of some of their game ending abilities. I especially feel this is true for mage and warlock.
Fact is that the devs build decks based on "fun" and much slower than the decks can be built. So for example in mage quest deck recipe they put minions. Silly devs.
At the rate we're going, every start of year will start with over 645 cards in rotation, and end with 1020 (not including whatever they decide to do with Core each year), and something about that just seems wrong to me…
You didn't really explain why more cards being in standard is a bad thing other than it makes you feel wrong...
Balancing.
It's the entire reason Standard exists to begin with.
The more cards exist in potential play, the harder it becomes to make sure any new card that is created won't somehow accidentally create an unbalanced combo with some other card(s), or you don't accidentally give a class too much easy access to an ability that shouldn't be available so easily .
Take the Questlines for example. I feel the dev team didn't realize how easy they were to complete, that's why the rewards are 5 mana 7/7's on top of some of their game ending abilities. I especially feel this is true for mage and warlock. Warlock has way too many heals right now for that questline to be considered having a cost, and when you do complete it, the rest of the deck kills you in one turn almost every time, while gaining mana for each card played, while not actually spending mana on cards played to begin with, and I know you know what cards I'm talking about.
I imagine there will be spell school support from something similar to dungeoneers.
At the rate we're going, every start of year will start with over 645 cards in rotation, and end with 1020 (not including whatever they decide to do with Core each year), and something about that just seems wrong to me…
You didn't really explain why more cards being in standard is a bad thing other than it makes you feel wrong...
Thanks! Recently I’m really trying to improve my guides since they do seem to help. For the Shadowburst Priest for example, already 3 people other than me got legend with it and 2 for the first time ever! I got an especially nice comment on wildreddit about it (I shared the deck on wildreddit and linked to the guide):
’‘Been playing since season 3 (2014?). HIT LEGEND FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH THIS DECK.
Thank you for posting and getting me over the hump of rank 3. It's truly been a "wild" ride!
THANK YOU!”
For me, something like that happening definitely makes all the time spent into making a high quality guide worth it.
Plus just for myself it’s nice to go back to old decks and have a place where it’s like a collection of tips and gameplay insights collected over many games.
I actually think the mini-sets are adding too many cards and options to standard and it's becoming a problem.
The Standard Rotation was decided on when there were only about 400 cards in the game. 400 was the point where we were getting tired of seeing the same hyper optimized decks while new cards constantly had to power creep, even just a tiny bit, for anyone to consider buying the set or playing the cards
At the rate we're going, every start of year will start with over 645 cards in rotation, and end with 1020 (not including whatever they decide to do with Core each year), and something about that just seems wrong to me...
It hasn't moved fully because plenty of people still brought the Giants build, because it's a lot more consistent. The Fatigue version is just better against all the other fast combo decks that are often favored in tournaments.
I'm not sure if you even can master it. There's just so many immensly important decisions you have to make every turn while effectively guessing your coming turns because you can't influence draw RNG. The amount of time you'd need to properly evaluate every single turn is just too much for even veterans.
I'm also pretty sure the deck would have to be hotfix nerfed instantly if it was any easier because it can pretty much demolish any deck with very little counterplay other than slamming face and hoping they draw poorly.
I really enjoyed watching the players that "embraced the spirit of Last Hero Standing" (as Sottle put it during Hot Takes) and had a clear strategy in their lineup, such as Bankyugi anf Frenetic.
Interesting to see also how warlock has moved fully towards card draw and deck burn to use Tamsin + fatigue damage as the preferred finisher with the inclusion of Manafeeder Panthara, Hand of Gul'dan, Nightshade Matron, and even Altar of Fire in some cases!
This week really showed just how difficult Garrote Rogue really is. So many misplays at the highest level of play, I really will wonder how much of a menace it will be once people start mastering it.
I really love this Avalon, really adds another fun purpose to the game and makes me enjoy duels more.
That being said I've reached 12-2 on Casual with C'thun Warrior. I've made little changes to the deck advised in the challenge post.
Didn't run Tealan, Twilight Elder and Kresh as they were not battlecry minions and I was aiming for All Together Now - Rally the Troops combo. Instead added Scorpid, and Lord Barov. My 6 drop was my Scrapmetal Demolitionist (Which granted me most of my wins and I lost my second match on Warrior Mirror to the Demolitionist bombs). My last three opponents were Warriors with almost identical treasures/hero powers. Two of them ran Quest one didn't. C'thun wasn't the game winner most of the time but slight board clear plus a 12/12 threat on board at the late game proved very useful on some longer matches.
Congratulations for the 12er! I tried some C'thun Warrior myself, but I failed to get some particularly remarkable runs: I think your changes are very reasonable and needed for the deck to perform better. I'll have a run with your list later today, and I'll let you know how it turns out.
I agree with you that C'Thun should not be treated as a finisher, but more as a tempo-ish play to take control of the board and set up lethal. Moreover, you also have Doomcaller, so you should definitely have no worries about 'wasting' your C'Thun.
On the other hand, I feel like Doomcaller might be a win-more card, especially since you don't really need it in the early matches: I tried Grommash Hellscream for it, but I'm still trying to understand if it's the right call.
On a side note, I particularly appreciated the fact that you already created and labeled your starting deck: you saved me some time. Thanks!
Awesome! I plan to continue trying this challenge as it is some of the most fun I've had in Hearthstone for a while. It's like Duels on hard mode. Hopefully I can push it even higher. Thanks for putting this together!
Well, this is pretty sweet to read: thanks <3
So far, this season has been a lot more successful than the previous one, and we have received a ton of positive feedback: you can believe me when I say we're not going to drop Master Duelist any time soon!
I really love this Avalon, really adds another fun purpose to the game and makes me enjoy duels more.
That being said I've reached 12-2 on Casual with C'thun Warrior. I've made little changes to the deck advised in the challenge post.
Didn't run Tealan, Twilight Elder and Kresh as they were not battlecry minions and I was aiming for All Together Now - Rally the Troops combo. Instead added Scorpid, and Lord Barov. My 6 drop was my Scrapmetal Demolitionist (Which granted me most of my wins and I lost my second match on Warrior Mirror to the Demolitionist bombs). My last three opponents were Warriors with almost identical treasures/hero powers. Two of them ran Quest one didn't. C'thun wasn't the game winner most of the time but slight board clear plus a 12/12 threat on board at the late game proved very useful on some longer matches.
For the Paladin run: yeah, Disks of Legend is fun there too - you just have to include as many Legendary minions as reasonably possible for the system to understand what you're doing lol.
Yeah, it might have just been bad RNG as I've had plenty of runs with enough Legendaries and simply never been offered it. Though, I have been seeing some strange things with Treasure offerings lately that make me think deck-analysis-based Treasures may be turned off or broken. A couple weeks ago my 3 offerings were 2 Deathrattle-based Treasures and 1 Taunt based Treasure for a Warlock deck that contained exactly 0 of both minon types. Maybe they've fixed something since then.
I appreciate you sharing another run, despite the identical results: posting multiple attempts isn't definitely against the rules, and (as you said) it encourages discussion - well played!
Awesome! I plan to continue trying this challenge as it is some of the most fun I've had in Hearthstone for a while. It's like Duels on hard mode. Hopefully I can push it even higher. Thanks for putting this together!
I'm not hopeful for anything that makes quests worse from this next miniset. If anything, the miniset will probably give them even more tools to work with since it is connected directly with this expansion. More fuel to the fire. There is a decent chance that the borderline strong quests gain more support which will push them over the top.
I have been playing Quest Hunter and the deck is already decent. Any good damage spells or card draw might make it strong enough to become another oppressive force in the Standard meta. People playing Wild already know that it is pretty disgusting with the right support. Quest Rogue is less likely to become oppressive but it could become a very strong contender with some additional support. Quest Druid could become a lot stronger with the right support as well. Warrior is probably getting some buffs soon and depending on what is buffed and what the miniset brings it could easily become too strong. Quest Priest can't really overcome its own slow design so i don't have much hope for it. And Quest Paladin doesn't really need any support. It is bad because it's a board based strategy and those will continue to struggle as long as Quest Shaman, Warlock and Mage are still around.
When it comes to other archetypes, it is pretty hard to see anything rising to relevance. Token Hunter (or Rat Hunter, whatever) needs better token generation and a way of leveraging those into real threats. The 3-mana 1/6 is too weak for the job. Fire Mage probably can't compete against Spell Mage because Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are just too strong. And HP Mage simply has no chance. Shadow Priest is about to lose Illucia (i'm 100% certain that she is getting killed in this next balance patch) but it will remain strong. Further support probably won't impact it that much. Other aggro decks don't really need any support (which doesn't mean they aren't getting any). And i don't really see any chance of slower strategies becoming viable again. Sorry for being too negative but i can't help it. I just don't see how things could change without the questlines being touched directly.
Mercenaries: My First Impressions
After watching the complete Mercenaries video series by Regiskillbin, I'm actually quite hyped for the mode and can't wait to play it! It really seems to have some depth regarding team composition and tactics. I'm still concerned about the monetization and I won't preorder anything as long as I can't playtest the mode. I think I'll stick to f2p in Mercenaries and see how far I can get.
Master Duelist 1.2: From Zero To Hero - Submission Thread
We've got another Twitter submission, and it's a spicy one!
Roost442 was able to get a 12-0 with Soul Demon Hunter!
Passive Treasures Chosen
First pool - All Together Now
Second pool - Rally the Troops
Duels · Soul Demon Hunter · by Avalon · 5 years ago
Miniset speculation
The 5 mana 7/7 stat line is purely thematic. HS has a history of giving cards thematic stats and costs for the sake of looking nice (see 4/12 dragons, LoE and their SoU counterparts, etc). Anyways, I think that it is kind of pointless to not create content like the mini set because even if they don't the critical mass of impossible to balance cards will be reached and I doubt that 60(ish) cards will make that big of a difference getting there in the first place. I do think that you are right; eventually, this game will end up like Yugioh where there are so many cards it is impossible to balance correctly (though that is partly because of the standard format Yugioh uses).
Mech Paladin D5 to Legend - feat. Alliance Bannerman
Congrats! That’s one of the best feelings.
Miniset speculation
While I refuse to believe that they decided to fuck up every single game mode just to push the new toy, I remember that Battlegrounds' release was Doom in the Tomb's Evolve Shaman era.
Miniset speculation
Wrong. The devs ruined the standard, wild, and battlegrounds meta so everyone would be so bored that they'd try out mercenaries. Actual galactic brain.
Miniset speculation
Fact is that the devs build decks based on "fun" and much slower than the decks can be built. So for example in mage quest deck recipe they put minions. Silly devs.
Reminder: Full Dust Refunds for Hearthstone's September Nerfs Ending Soon!
Don't forget: type in 'REFUND' while the gettin's good.
Miniset speculation
Balancing.
It's the entire reason Standard exists to begin with.
The more cards exist in potential play, the harder it becomes to make sure any new card that is created won't somehow accidentally create an unbalanced combo with some other card(s), or you don't accidentally give a class too much easy access to an ability that shouldn't be available so easily .
Take the Questlines for example. I feel the dev team didn't realize how easy they were to complete, that's why the rewards are 5 mana 7/7's on top of some of their game ending abilities. I especially feel this is true for mage and warlock. Warlock has way too many heals right now for that questline to be considered having a cost, and when you do complete it, the rest of the deck kills you in one turn almost every time, while gaining mana for each card played, while not actually spending mana on cards played to begin with, and I know you know what cards I'm talking about.
Miniset speculation
I imagine there will be spell school support from something similar to dungeoneers.
You didn't really explain why more cards being in standard is a bad thing other than it makes you feel wrong...
Even Druid
Thanks! Recently I’m really trying to improve my guides since they do seem to help. For the Shadowburst Priest for example, already 3 people other than me got legend with it and 2 for the first time ever! I got an especially nice comment on wildreddit about it (I shared the deck on wildreddit and linked to the guide):
’‘Been playing since season 3 (2014?). HIT LEGEND FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH THIS DECK.
Thank you for posting and getting me over the hump of rank 3. It's truly been a "wild" ride!
THANK YOU!”
For me, something like that happening definitely makes all the time spent into making a high quality guide worth it.
Plus just for myself it’s nice to go back to old decks and have a place where it’s like a collection of tips and gameplay insights collected over many games.
Reminder: Full Dust Refunds for Hearthstone's September Nerfs Ending Soon!
Thanks for the reminder! :O)
Miniset speculation
Hot take, major opinion, bit of a vent.
I actually think the mini-sets are adding too many cards and options to standard and it's becoming a problem.
The Standard Rotation was decided on when there were only about 400 cards in the game. 400 was the point where we were getting tired of seeing the same hyper optimized decks while new cards constantly had to power creep, even just a tiny bit, for anyone to consider buying the set or playing the cards
At the rate we're going, every start of year will start with over 645 cards in rotation, and end with 1020 (not including whatever they decide to do with Core each year), and something about that just seems wrong to me...
Rewards Track: Current progress 3.0
Just hit lvl 90 with this weeks weekly completed. Havent been that motivated for HS this xpac. think i was around lvl 100 last season after 40 days
Hearthstone Grandmasters 2021 Season 2 - Week 4 Results, Decklists, and More! (Spoiler Free)
It hasn't moved fully because plenty of people still brought the Giants build, because it's a lot more consistent. The Fatigue version is just better against all the other fast combo decks that are often favored in tournaments.
Hearthstone Grandmasters 2021 Season 2 - Week 4 Results, Decklists, and More! (Spoiler Free)
I'm not sure if you even can master it. There's just so many immensly important decisions you have to make every turn while effectively guessing your coming turns because you can't influence draw RNG. The amount of time you'd need to properly evaluate every single turn is just too much for even veterans.
I'm also pretty sure the deck would have to be hotfix nerfed instantly if it was any easier because it can pretty much demolish any deck with very little counterplay other than slamming face and hoping they draw poorly.
Master Duelist 1.2: From Zero To Hero - Submission Thread
Yep: everything's showing right now - thanks for fixing it and congratulations for the 12er!
Master Duelist 1.2: From Zero To Hero - Submission Thread
Sorry about that, can u see them now?
Hearthstone Grandmasters 2021 Season 2 - Week 4 Results, Decklists, and More! (Spoiler Free)
I really enjoyed watching the players that "embraced the spirit of Last Hero Standing" (as Sottle put it during Hot Takes) and had a clear strategy in their lineup, such as Bankyugi anf Frenetic.
Interesting to see also how warlock has moved fully towards card draw and deck burn to use Tamsin + fatigue damage as the preferred finisher with the inclusion of Manafeeder Panthara, Hand of Gul'dan, Nightshade Matron, and even Altar of Fire in some cases!
Hearthstone Grandmasters 2021 Season 2 - Week 4 Results, Decklists, and More! (Spoiler Free)
This week really showed just how difficult Garrote Rogue really is. So many misplays at the highest level of play, I really will wonder how much of a menace it will be once people start mastering it.
Master Duelist 1.2: From Zero To Hero - Submission Thread
Hey there, good to see you again!
Congratulations for the 12er! I tried some C'thun Warrior myself, but I failed to get some particularly remarkable runs: I think your changes are very reasonable and needed for the deck to perform better. I'll have a run with your list later today, and I'll let you know how it turns out.
I agree with you that C'Thun should not be treated as a finisher, but more as a tempo-ish play to take control of the board and set up lethal. Moreover, you also have Doomcaller, so you should definitely have no worries about 'wasting' your C'Thun.
On the other hand, I feel like Doomcaller might be a win-more card, especially since you don't really need it in the early matches: I tried Grommash Hellscream for it, but I'm still trying to understand if it's the right call.
On a side note, I particularly appreciated the fact that you already created and labeled your starting deck: you saved me some time. Thanks!
Master Duelist 1.2: From Zero To Hero - Submission Thread
Well, this is pretty sweet to read: thanks <3
So far, this season has been a lot more successful than the previous one, and we have received a ton of positive feedback: you can believe me when I say we're not going to drop Master Duelist any time soon!
Master Duelist 1.2: From Zero To Hero - Submission Thread
Hi All,
I really love this Avalon, really adds another fun purpose to the game and makes me enjoy duels more.
That being said I've reached 12-2 on Casual with C'thun Warrior. I've made little changes to the deck advised in the challenge post.
Didn't run Tealan, Twilight Elder and Kresh as they were not battlecry minions and I was aiming for All Together Now - Rally the Troops combo. Instead added Scorpid, and Lord Barov. My 6 drop was my Scrapmetal Demolitionist (Which granted me most of my wins and I lost my second match on Warrior Mirror to the Demolitionist bombs). My last three opponents were Warriors with almost identical treasures/hero powers. Two of them ran Quest one didn't. C'thun wasn't the game winner most of the time but slight board clear plus a 12/12 threat on board at the late game proved very useful on some longer matches.
My screenshots and the deck is as following
First pool - All Together Now
Second pool - Rally the Troops
Wild · C'Thun Warrior · by Calenmir · 5 years ago
Master Duelist 1.2: From Zero To Hero - Submission Thread
Yeah, it might have just been bad RNG as I've had plenty of runs with enough Legendaries and simply never been offered it. Though, I have been seeing some strange things with Treasure offerings lately that make me think deck-analysis-based Treasures may be turned off or broken. A couple weeks ago my 3 offerings were 2 Deathrattle-based Treasures and 1 Taunt based Treasure for a Warlock deck that contained exactly 0 of both minon types. Maybe they've fixed something since then.
Awesome! I plan to continue trying this challenge as it is some of the most fun I've had in Hearthstone for a while. It's like Duels on hard mode. Hopefully I can push it even higher. Thanks for putting this together!
Miniset speculation
I'm not hopeful for anything that makes quests worse from this next miniset. If anything, the miniset will probably give them even more tools to work with since it is connected directly with this expansion. More fuel to the fire. There is a decent chance that the borderline strong quests gain more support which will push them over the top.
I have been playing Quest Hunter and the deck is already decent. Any good damage spells or card draw might make it strong enough to become another oppressive force in the Standard meta. People playing Wild already know that it is pretty disgusting with the right support. Quest Rogue is less likely to become oppressive but it could become a very strong contender with some additional support. Quest Druid could become a lot stronger with the right support as well. Warrior is probably getting some buffs soon and depending on what is buffed and what the miniset brings it could easily become too strong. Quest Priest can't really overcome its own slow design so i don't have much hope for it. And Quest Paladin doesn't really need any support. It is bad because it's a board based strategy and those will continue to struggle as long as Quest Shaman, Warlock and Mage are still around.
When it comes to other archetypes, it is pretty hard to see anything rising to relevance. Token Hunter (or Rat Hunter, whatever) needs better token generation and a way of leveraging those into real threats. The 3-mana 1/6 is too weak for the job. Fire Mage probably can't compete against Spell Mage because Incanter's Flow and Refreshing Spring Water are just too strong. And HP Mage simply has no chance. Shadow Priest is about to lose Illucia (i'm 100% certain that she is getting killed in this next balance patch) but it will remain strong. Further support probably won't impact it that much. Other aggro decks don't really need any support (which doesn't mean they aren't getting any). And i don't really see any chance of slower strategies becoming viable again. Sorry for being too negative but i can't help it. I just don't see how things could change without the questlines being touched directly.