What exactly is the OTK in the OTK Warrior deck? I know it probably has something to do with Animated Broomstick, but how do you accumulate enough damage for an OTK?
Card rewards, packs from old sets, and Tavern Tickets cannot be used to buy packs...Assigning values to those non-gold rewards is disingenuous because those rewards are not 1:1 equivalent to gold, as they can’t be used to buy packs.
This is not really fair.
Card rewards for legendary and epic cards enable you to buy fewer packs. If I'm planning to get a full collection, then after about 50 packs or so I've got all the common and rare cards. A legendary comes in about 1 out of every 20 packs, so in some sense, that free legendary has saved me the cost of 20 packs. (Note that my math on this does not value a Legendary card at 2000 gold, but the 1 in 20 packs is illustrative of my point that they enable me to buy fewer packs on my way to a full set.) We can reasonably debate what the right gold-equivalent value of those is, but it's clear that anything that enables you to spend less gold on an expansion has a gold-equivalent value.
Tavern Tickets translate to Arena runs and Heroic Duels runs, which net packs of the latest set and gold. They are effectively much better than gold, as you can save them up until the next expansion and spend them to get packs and gold with which you can get more packs (all while completing your daily quests).
Packs from old sets are complicated, but it's clear they're not worth nothing because the dust you get from them can go toward crafting new cards. Where it gets tricky is in determining how much they should be valued.
Let's start with an extreme case, where the player in question has a full collection. Every pack from every set has the exact same value until a new set comes out. When the new set comes out, those new packs have dramatically greater value, but that value difference drops significantly after about 50 or so packs when all that's left to collect is the epics and legendary cards. The new packs are still more valuable because every now and then they'll provide some new card, but oftentimes you'll just get a bunch of common and rare cards you already have, all of which become dust. Those packs are basically the same value as a pack from any other set.
A much more common case is that the player in question doesn't have every card in every set, which shrinks the value differential even further because there are lots of older epic and legendary cards that see play in top tier decks (e.g. Kayn Sunfury and Soulciologist Malicia in Soul DH, Lady Liadrin and High Abbess Alura in Pure Pally, and Dragonbane and Lorekeeper Polkelt in Face Hunter).
Yes, everyone saves up gold to buy cards from the new expansion. But that's not because everyone collected up full collections and don't get anything new from old packs, it's because they know they'll get a lot more out of that gold by buying all the common and rare cards of the next set, plus a couple of legendaries. But that's not a compelling case for saying that a pack from an older set has zero gold-equivalent value. Given that much of the time, packs of each set are worth the same (i.e. some amount of dust because they're all dupes), it's at most a decent case for saying that a pack from an older set has less value than 100 gold (though how much less will vary by player).
I completely agree there is value to those items. Your post seems like a reasonable delve into the value but, ultimately, you agree the value is not 1:1 with gold.
The context is everything here. Again, the concern was absolute and specific: will we earn the same amount of gold in between expansions? The answer is no. It's still no even with the added 1350 on the track, and that is only when compared to the absolute minimum gold earned in the old system. Devs plainly stated we'd earn the same if not more and that is false.
I have very little faith I'll hit level 72 (just to break even) without an event dumping a large amount of XP. I refuse to play the game a different way to earn the same gold. The devs even stated we'd earn more for playing the way we want to play and I haven't even brought that aspect into the discussion, or the free legendary card at launch being moved to the reward track. I don't have any desire to achievement hunt (though I am glad it's available for those that do) and expect I'll fall well short of the achievement totals quoted by Nervig.
Meh. Gambling in China is strictly forbidden (what isn't?) and buying packs (where you don't know what u will get) for money is a gambling. Because of that Blizzard changed this system a little. In China you pay for arcane dust and pack is free bonus to transaction (you know what are you buying - arcane dust, so no problem, right?). But it was makeshift, temporal solution. Now Chinese will get (and pay for) premium currency. Unless gambling in games will be forbidden in USA or EU, you won't see it there.
Card rewards, packs from old sets, and Tavern Tickets cannot be used to buy packs...Assigning values to those non-gold rewards is disingenuous because those rewards are not 1:1 equivalent to gold, as they can’t be used to buy packs.
This is not really fair.
Card rewards for legendary and epic cards enable you to buy fewer packs. If I'm planning to get a full collection, then after about 50 packs or so I've got all the common and rare cards. A legendary comes in about 1 out of every 20 packs, so in some sense, that free legendary has saved me the cost of 20 packs. (Note that my math on this does not value a Legendary card at 2000 gold, but the 1 in 20 packs is illustrative of my point that they enable me to buy fewer packs on my way to a full set.) We can reasonably debate what the right gold-equivalent value of those is, but it's clear that anything that enables you to spend less gold on an expansion has a gold-equivalent value.
Tavern Tickets translate to Arena runs and Heroic Duels runs, which net packs of the latest set and gold. They are effectively much better than gold, as you can save them up until the next expansion and spend them to get packs and gold with which you can get more packs (all while completing your daily quests).
Packs from old sets are complicated, but it's clear they're not worth nothing because the dust you get from them can go toward crafting new cards. Where it gets tricky is in determining how much they should be valued.
Let's start with an extreme case, where the player in question has a full collection. Every pack from every set has the exact same value until a new set comes out. When the new set comes out, those new packs have dramatically greater value, but that value difference drops significantly after about 50 or so packs when all that's left to collect is the epics and legendary cards. The new packs are still more valuable because every now and then they'll provide some new card, but oftentimes you'll just get a bunch of common and rare cards you already have, all of which become dust. Those packs are basically the same value as a pack from any other set.
A much more common case is that the player in question doesn't have every card in every set, which shrinks the value differential even further because there are lots of older epic and legendary cards that see play in top tier decks (e.g. Kayn Sunfury and Soulciologist Malicia in Soul DH, Lady Liadrin and High Abbess Alura in Pure Pally, and Dragonbane and Lorekeeper Polkelt in Face Hunter).
Yes, everyone saves up gold to buy cards from the new expansion. But that's not because everyone collected up full collections and don't get anything new from old packs, it's because they know they'll get a lot more out of that gold by buying all the common and rare cards of the next set, plus a couple of legendaries. But that's not a compelling case for saying that a pack from an older set has zero gold-equivalent value. Given that much of the time, packs of each set are worth the same (i.e. some amount of dust because they're all dupes), it's at most a decent case for saying that a pack from an older set has less value than 100 gold (though how much less will vary by player).
There are certainly some bad-faith arguments in the community. There always are, and always will be because this is the internet and, in general, people are stupid. Lots of old, bad blood comes up that isn’t relevant to the rewards track, and that obfuscates the root problem.
The root problem is simple. The community was specific and absolute in its response to the leaked survey: The gold earned between expansions is saved to buy packs of the newest set. The first iteration of the rewards track looked like it would reduce the amount of gold earned. Card rewards, packs from old sets, and Tavern Tickets cannot be used to buy packs. (This is something Blizzard has pulled before with arena rewards 4-5 years ago, adding packs and cards into the loot boxes to reduce the amount of gold earned.) Assigning values to those non-gold rewards is disingenuous because those rewards are not 1:1 equivalent to gold, as they can’t be used to buy packs.
So, was the gold earned reduced?
For me, the simplest way to calculate the gold earnings is to use a casual, 1 hour per day player. This player can log in, reroll & clear a daily quest, and win 3 games. This player would have earned a minimum of 60 gold each day over the 120 days used in Chad Nervig’s example, linked here. A very simple calculation in the old system (60gold x 120days) shows this player earns a minimum of 7200 gold.
Using Nervig’s charts, we can calculate the total gold under the initial version and the updated version that removed packs and added 1350 gold.
Daily Quests:
120days x 1000xp
= 120,000xp
Weekly Quests:
17weeks x (2500xp + 1750xp + 1750xp)
= 102,000xp
Ranked Playtime:
120days x 1hour x 400xp
= 48,000xp
Darkmoon Achievements:
75% x 14,800xp
= 11,100xp
Duels Achievements:
75% x 12,500xp
= 9,375xp
TOTAL: 290,475xp
290,475 XP puts our player at level 72. In the initial version of the rewards track, level 72 earned our player 6300 gold. The player base went ballistic because it was clear the gold earned would be lower than the minimum we had in the old system. The new rewards track grants a total of 7650 gold at level 72 now, which is better but still below the more accepted total of 8000-8500 gold most would earn in our 1-hour-casual example.
There are also several big issues just with play time and quests:
Our 1-hour Casual player would earn more if they won 6 games in that hour under the old system
Our 1-hour Casual would earn more if they have a few 100 gold quests over that 120 days
This player would earn more if they were gifted any Challenge a Friend quests.
They could earn that minimum in 30 minutes of play with a top deck (this would cut their XP down to 24000, knocking them down to level 66 and removing another 900 gold)
There are also several big issues with the game becoming even more expensive:
Achievements requiring Legendary and Epic cards will deplete a player’s dust reserve while crafting cards that may not be viable in other modes
Mini-set bundling into existing set packs means lower chances to open those new cards (Buy Packs Now!)
Duels has the best starting treasures locked behind collection requirements for DMF epics
On top of all of that, the system makes progress feel much slower. The only time I see any indication that I’ve progressed is when I get the required XP to move up a level. There are complaints by players that want to start an arena/duels run but can no longer grind gold that day, instead being forced to wait several days if they are staring down a few feelsbadman pack levels between their current level and the next gold reward.
Then we add Blizzard’s response via Ben Lee that tells us we didn’t have all the information needed about XP from additional events. Of course, that response didn’t bother to give us any of the information we were missing, only the promise that there will be more XP and bonus events “as needed” and that we should blindly accept that they “will stay true to” their word.
There are positives to the new system but they were crushed by a tidal wave of negatives because of Blizzard's bad-faith gold-equivalent math, substituting rewards that can't buy packs and considering the value assigned to be equal.
Repost from almost exactly a year ago. I don't like doing this, but we need to spread the word because I've seen enough of the screenshots and questions!
Feel free to swap in and out any cards you might want to try. Tickatus is good for mirror matches but not totally necessary. I've sometimes added the new Yogg and that has worked out well once you get past round 1 and pick up more spells.
I play mostly meme decks and have a lot of experience with this concept. What you want to do is telegraph your play to get your opponent to play along. You can do this by 'flashing' cards in your hand. Whenever your opponent's mous goes over a card, hero, deck, minion, or hero power it gets highlighted. So just make that red border flash a few times and leave your mous on the card in your hand or minion on the board you want and your opponent will take notice. The first thing that will cross their mind is that you have lethal. The second thing they will think is that you are trying to do some dumb or elaborate combo. If you are already playing non-aggro off-meta cards then they won't be afraid of lethal and they might play along. You can also try the top emotes to telegraph what you are doing ( Thank you and Wow) at the appropriate times.
I would really like to see nerfs to the power level of aggro to enable more control decks and old gods to be viable. Aggro DH is way stronger than it should be and face hunter isn't unbeatable but it's so annoying to face it constantly because it's still a good and simple deck. OTK control warrior has too many tools with incredible armor game, sticky rattlegores and otk, but I'm not sure what should be hit. Evolve shaman is a high-variance deck, but the evolve weapon draw became more consistent and it's sad this rng fiesta is the only option for shaman.
About nerfs
Someone should try and sink the wild Pirate ship
The Best Standard Meta Decks For Each of Hearthstone's Classes in Darkmoon Faire - Week 2
What exactly is the OTK in the OTK Warrior deck? I know it probably has something to do with Animated Broomstick, but how do you accumulate enough damage for an OTK?
Hot take - Blizzard is actually not that bad
I completely agree there is value to those items. Your post seems like a reasonable delve into the value but, ultimately, you agree the value is not 1:1 with gold.
The context is everything here. Again, the concern was absolute and specific: will we earn the same amount of gold in between expansions? The answer is no. It's still no even with the added 1350 on the track, and that is only when compared to the absolute minimum gold earned in the old system. Devs plainly stated we'd earn the same if not more and that is false.
I have very little faith I'll hit level 72 (just to break even) without an event dumping a large amount of XP. I refuse to play the game a different way to earn the same gold. The devs even stated we'd earn more for playing the way we want to play and I haven't even brought that aspect into the discussion, or the free legendary card at launch being moved to the reward track. I don't have any desire to achievement hunt (though I am glad it's available for those that do) and expect I'll fall well short of the achievement totals quoted by Nervig.
About nerfs
Aldrachi Warblades: lifesteal on equip turn only.
Voracious Reader: either (3) or 2hp
Risky Skipper: either (2) or 2hp
Palm Reading: discount 1 spell only
Lightning Bloom: refresh spent mana (no temporary Ramp)
Raza the Chained: HP costs (1)
The above would arguably fix both Wild and Standard for the time being.
The Best Standard Meta Decks For Each of Hearthstone's Classes in Darkmoon Faire - Week 2
Nohands said on stream that the Libroom Paladin is better than pure paladin
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Not Prismatic Lens, older. thanks for the virtual hug.
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
It's not technically murder if they can't find the murder weapon *think about it meme*
Rewards Track: Current progress
Another minor update, I just hit level 40, which means 61% progress towards level 50.
I hope you are doing well also, good luck y'all! 🤠
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
Meh. Gambling in China is strictly forbidden (what isn't?) and buying packs (where you don't know what u will get) for money is a gambling. Because of that Blizzard changed this system a little. In China you pay for arcane dust and pack is free bonus to transaction (you know what are you buying - arcane dust, so no problem, right?). But it was makeshift, temporal solution. Now Chinese will get (and pay for) premium currency. Unless gambling in games will be forbidden in USA or EU, you won't see it there.
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
Wow - all the comments that got smashed with the downvote in this thread - in todays environment would justifiably be upvoted...
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
I was wondering.... "New currencies? Didn't we hear about these quite a while ago?"
Hot take - Blizzard is actually not that bad
This is not really fair.
Card rewards for legendary and epic cards enable you to buy fewer packs. If I'm planning to get a full collection, then after about 50 packs or so I've got all the common and rare cards. A legendary comes in about 1 out of every 20 packs, so in some sense, that free legendary has saved me the cost of 20 packs. (Note that my math on this does not value a Legendary card at 2000 gold, but the 1 in 20 packs is illustrative of my point that they enable me to buy fewer packs on my way to a full set.) We can reasonably debate what the right gold-equivalent value of those is, but it's clear that anything that enables you to spend less gold on an expansion has a gold-equivalent value.
Tavern Tickets translate to Arena runs and Heroic Duels runs, which net packs of the latest set and gold. They are effectively much better than gold, as you can save them up until the next expansion and spend them to get packs and gold with which you can get more packs (all while completing your daily quests).
Packs from old sets are complicated, but it's clear they're not worth nothing because the dust you get from them can go toward crafting new cards. Where it gets tricky is in determining how much they should be valued.
Let's start with an extreme case, where the player in question has a full collection. Every pack from every set has the exact same value until a new set comes out. When the new set comes out, those new packs have dramatically greater value, but that value difference drops significantly after about 50 or so packs when all that's left to collect is the epics and legendary cards. The new packs are still more valuable because every now and then they'll provide some new card, but oftentimes you'll just get a bunch of common and rare cards you already have, all of which become dust. Those packs are basically the same value as a pack from any other set.
A much more common case is that the player in question doesn't have every card in every set, which shrinks the value differential even further because there are lots of older epic and legendary cards that see play in top tier decks (e.g. Kayn Sunfury and Soulciologist Malicia in Soul DH, Lady Liadrin and High Abbess Alura in Pure Pally, and Dragonbane and Lorekeeper Polkelt in Face Hunter).
Yes, everyone saves up gold to buy cards from the new expansion. But that's not because everyone collected up full collections and don't get anything new from old packs, it's because they know they'll get a lot more out of that gold by buying all the common and rare cards of the next set, plus a couple of legendaries. But that's not a compelling case for saying that a pack from an older set has zero gold-equivalent value. Given that much of the time, packs of each set are worth the same (i.e. some amount of dust because they're all dupes), it's at most a decent case for saying that a pack from an older set has less value than 100 gold (though how much less will vary by player).
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
People are of course free to downvote posts as much as they want, but -22 for a post as innocent as this? Really?
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
That is on purpose, obviously, and not only Blizzard does this. Hell, not only game companies do this.
Hot take - Blizzard is actually not that bad
So right now is when the HS PR team/community manager or w/e put out statements. So it seems their strategy is literally to ignore us.
Hahaha, wow.
So yeah @OP, Blizzard is not that bad, they are awesome :) /s
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
Yeah, I'm hoping this is resolved in the next game update.
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
Ideally Team 5 would fix the client so it didn't sometimes show (as has happened to me) for players it doesn't apply to.
Hot take - Blizzard is actually not that bad
There are certainly some bad-faith arguments in the community. There always are, and always will be because this is the internet and, in general, people are stupid. Lots of old, bad blood comes up that isn’t relevant to the rewards track, and that obfuscates the root problem.
The root problem is simple. The community was specific and absolute in its response to the leaked survey: The gold earned between expansions is saved to buy packs of the newest set. The first iteration of the rewards track looked like it would reduce the amount of gold earned. Card rewards, packs from old sets, and Tavern Tickets cannot be used to buy packs. (This is something Blizzard has pulled before with arena rewards 4-5 years ago, adding packs and cards into the loot boxes to reduce the amount of gold earned.) Assigning values to those non-gold rewards is disingenuous because those rewards are not 1:1 equivalent to gold, as they can’t be used to buy packs.
So, was the gold earned reduced?
For me, the simplest way to calculate the gold earnings is to use a casual, 1 hour per day player. This player can log in, reroll & clear a daily quest, and win 3 games. This player would have earned a minimum of 60 gold each day over the 120 days used in Chad Nervig’s example, linked here. A very simple calculation in the old system (60gold x 120days) shows this player earns a minimum of 7200 gold.
Using Nervig’s charts, we can calculate the total gold under the initial version and the updated version that removed packs and added 1350 gold.
Daily Quests:
120days x 1000xp
= 120,000xp
Weekly Quests:
17weeks x (2500xp + 1750xp + 1750xp)
= 102,000xp
Ranked Playtime:
120days x 1hour x 400xp
= 48,000xp
Darkmoon Achievements:
75% x 14,800xp
= 11,100xp
Duels Achievements:
75% x 12,500xp
= 9,375xp
TOTAL: 290,475xp
290,475 XP puts our player at level 72. In the initial version of the rewards track, level 72 earned our player 6300 gold. The player base went ballistic because it was clear the gold earned would be lower than the minimum we had in the old system. The new rewards track grants a total of 7650 gold at level 72 now, which is better but still below the more accepted total of 8000-8500 gold most would earn in our 1-hour-casual example.
There are also several big issues just with play time and quests:
There are also several big issues with the game becoming even more expensive:
On top of all of that, the system makes progress feel much slower. The only time I see any indication that I’ve progressed is when I get the required XP to move up a level. There are complaints by players that want to start an arena/duels run but can no longer grind gold that day, instead being forced to wait several days if they are staring down a few feelsbadman pack levels between their current level and the next gold reward.
Then we add Blizzard’s response via Ben Lee that tells us we didn’t have all the information needed about XP from additional events. Of course, that response didn’t bother to give us any of the information we were missing, only the promise that there will be more XP and bonus events “as needed” and that we should blindly accept that they “will stay true to” their word.
There are positives to the new system but they were crushed by a tidal wave of negatives because of Blizzard's bad-faith gold-equivalent math, substituting rewards that can't buy packs and considering the value assigned to be equal.
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
This is going to redddit to see if they stop with the "weird bug" and "new feature coming?" posts
Feeling guilty for enjoying the game
Definitely no reason to feel guilty about having fun. I'm still enjoying the game, despite my disappointment with the new system.
New Hearthstone Currencies Coming to China - Arcane Orbs & Runestones
Repost from almost exactly a year ago. I don't like doing this, but we need to spread the word because I've seen enough of the screenshots and questions!
C'Thun Discolock
Feel free to swap in and out any cards you might want to try. Tickatus is good for mirror matches but not totally necessary. I've sometimes added the new Yogg and that has worked out well once you get past round 1 and pick up more spells.
Let's start a trend.
I'm already trying all the things you mentioned. Nothing seems to work. :D
Let's start a trend.
I play mostly meme decks and have a lot of experience with this concept. What you want to do is telegraph your play to get your opponent to play along. You can do this by 'flashing' cards in your hand. Whenever your opponent's mous goes over a card, hero, deck, minion, or hero power it gets highlighted. So just make that red border flash a few times and leave your mous on the card in your hand or minion on the board you want and your opponent will take notice. The first thing that will cross their mind is that you have lethal. The second thing they will think is that you are trying to do some dumb or elaborate combo. If you are already playing non-aggro off-meta cards then they won't be afraid of lethal and they might play along. You can also try the top emotes to telegraph what you are doing ( Thank you and Wow) at the appropriate times.
About nerfs
I would really like to see nerfs to the power level of aggro to enable more control decks and old gods to be viable. Aggro DH is way stronger than it should be and face hunter isn't unbeatable but it's so annoying to face it constantly because it's still a good and simple deck. OTK control warrior has too many tools with incredible armor game, sticky rattlegores and otk, but I'm not sure what should be hit. Evolve shaman is a high-variance deck, but the evolve weapon draw became more consistent and it's sad this rng fiesta is the only option for shaman.