Personally I think everyone's plans for Aggro Demon Hunters are too slow, not aggro enough.
Outcast effects make cards broken, so my plan is to make my deck so cheap that it's almost always easy to get Outcast effects. I'm talking about almost no cards (2) with a mana cost higher than 2.
really? I think that would just hurt their consistency and force you to run a bunch of less powerful cards to fill up 30. Is Zephrys really that important to DH.
It seems like a powerful deck, but the sample size here from that theorycrafting stream is pretty small, and most streamers were trying lots of classes/archetypes (some of which were not very successful), so I'd take that video with a grain of salt.
I generally agree. They're going to be nutty and meta defining. I think counter decking against them is possible though, but who knows.
Paladin
Somewhat disagree. This set seems promising for paladin but it aint no KotFT Warlock. Librams might be too slow and clunky to be used. Paladin looks good but not great.
Hunter
Really not sure here. The loss of zilliax is huge for hunter but if that means aggro/tempo decks are going to be more common that isn't good. Dragon Hunter has little comeback and is just decent at parity. It really shines when it gets ahead because of its ability to stay ahead but if decks are more focused on fighting for the board early it might actually be worse for hunter. Dragon hunter will still be a force though. Face hunter is a meme deck. It's going to be trash in a fast meta or any meta in general.
HIghlander might be better than dragon. Just depends on the meta. If it becomes an aggro meta you'll see warriors/priests do the control thing and highlander is probably much better against that kind of thing.
Rogue
Disagree on Rogue. Gala Rogue will still be tier 1. It's only slow in this meta because it's a slow meta, the deck can be tweaked to be faster by filling the slots its losing with tempo cards like SI Agent, Maiev, etc. Gala Rogue is busted and will remain so. Highlander Rogue with the Gala package seems a bit more sketchy but it could also be a thing.
On the other hand I think secret/stealth rogue is a bait. The secrets are easy to play around and ignore, it doesn't create the double threat that hunter secrets do which is the main reason hunter is the only good secret class. Stealth rogue is also not going to be that good. Playing fragile minions for some early tempo/face damage isn't going to be enough imo. Remember when secret paladin was going to be the nuts in RoS? I get the same vibe from this. Doesn't mean that some of the cards won't see play especially if highlander rogue is a thing. Just don't see it as it's own deck.
Warlock
Zoo will be a thing at the start of the year. It always is. How good or how long it will last remains to be seen.
Gala warlock gets better I think? Gets a few new things, matches up well enough against aggro, has different late game techs.
don't feel like spending brain power thinking about control warlock, but it has potential. you probably just play Gala warlock as your control deck and thats better though.
Druid
Druid is a class i'm really unsure of. With mage losing pocket galaxy and priest losing some things I think quest druid will be uncontested as the strongest late game class. It's super liable to certain kinds of aggro decks though, so it might be trash. It loses two super strong cards in the deck in Floop and Loti, but everything else remains and the package itself is still incredibly strong. Quest druid could still be a thing if the meta doesn't punish it.
Ramp/embiggen/dragon druid could be pretty strong.
Mage
every mage deck except highlander will be trash.
Highlander will be pretty good I think. It'll have to be built less greedy because no pocket but it still has some insane power plays and swingy cards with Zeph, Reno, Conj, Kalecgos, etc. Losing zilliax, the secret girl, pocket, and some other things do make its future questionable. Mage can always scam wins though.
Warrior
I think warrior is going to be good. You can make a gala deck that beats aggro and hits control in the face. battle rage needs to carry the deck but I think it's possible.
Priest and Shaman
Shit classes with bad cards. Might as well delete from the game.
Shaman has potential if they unnerf some shit but they mismanaged and ruined Shaman with descend of dragons. They released the class with one of the most absurd power levels ever seen which is the result of poor testing imo. Then they nerf it once hitting a lot of the wrong cards so people just cut those cards because it was the Gala package that was the busted part of the class anyway. Then they nerf the gala package (arguably the wrong part of it) and now the class is unplayable. The unnerf of Sludge Slurper helped aggro shaman come back but its losing all the cards that make it a deck.
Shaman is my favorite class and I'm super fucking annoyed with how they've ruined it.
Priest is just a walking dumpster fire and I feel the rework might have made it worst. They took away priests best cards and made some of the bad ones decent. I don't think that is a recipe for success. Their new cards look giga shit.
Since rogue is one of the big card draw classes (alongside warlock and druid) the need to draw it twice isn't that concerning. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if trusty old Waxadred gets played alongside Akama to have two great reasons to run Stowaway even before considering more gimmicky shuffle cards.
Man, if I had a coin for every CCG I've seen that has five characters of different colours clearly referencing the Horsemen of the Apocalypse that DO NOT have an instant win effect when you control all of them, I'd have 2. I mean, it's not much, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Show Spoiler
I'll give Wizards this: their horsemen are more thematically consistent.
really? I think that would just hurt their consistency and force you to run a bunch of less powerful cards to fill up 30. Is Zephrys really that important to DH.
You CAN play against AI with Demon Hunter in solo adventures like Galakrond's Awakening. And you don't even need a Fireside Gathering for that. Just play in the normal client. I recommend Finley and Dr. Boom, they're fairly balanced.
Proof?
I've been leveling my DH playing through Nax. Is that proof enough, or should I get you a screenshot?
screenshot, cuz I tried and it doesnt work
Finley is too easy imo. Try Chenvaala instead.
every time I try I get an error message
That's the error that you are getting when you forgot to close fireside gathering. It's not about demon hunter. I got same happened to me with other classes as well. Try click to your fireside gathering and leave it. Then try to start again. That will fix your problem probably.
The error message that client gives when you try to play demon hunter which isn't available in a format is "This class is not active right now". The message you showed us with your screenshot is about fireside gathering. Not about Demon Hunter class.
Uh no, I am not in a fireside right now and it still gives that error
Also, what rogue draw do you speak of? Card generation sure, but their current card draw pool isn't something that couldn't be replaced by some of the new cards. Sprint is too expensive, shiv and fan of knives are too weak and cards like stowaway or candle breath are deck-specific. Greyheart sage requires a specific deck too, but not many rogue cards can draw 2 for 2 mana like dirty tricks. It may be suboptimal as the card draw is delayed, but I can't think of why any of the cards mentioned above would be better in the general case.
Frosty covered the first part. I too had to think about the the card draw perspective and realized that he meant Galakrond and Toggwaggle.
True, running those two I have on occasion come up against a full hand, because the only low drops I can play are targeted (Sap, Backstab) on an empty board or card generating themselves (damn you inconvenient Dranconic Lackey!) But both of those are fairly late game scenarios. Not sure that I agree with the broader opinion.
I tend to do it as well, but without expectations, since having a disadvantage is not really telling of the situation to come.
Also, new cards add further variables.
So, at the end of the day, removing rotating cards in advance is nearly useless: you don't really get a glimpse of the future available plays and meta.
It can help at understanding which packages in a deck survive, and which ones lose too many cards to stay viable, leaving even more room for future development starting Release day.
We know rogue is pretty good already, so there's no need for me to hammer it home. I'll just state some few observations;
Bamboozle is pretty much the strongest of all the secrets if you're playing for tempo since it effectively discourages opponents to trade into any minions. Even a 1 drop can be upgraded into a 4 drop that your opponent cant deal with, and thereby giving you an advantage. This is particularly effective when you have low health, high attack stuff like Spymistress. And if they feel like using a spell, then it might activate Dirty Tricks, giving you a card advantage. Not to mention that your opponent would need to commit resources to do all of that. So you might well see a spymistress simply surviving all 3 turns, best case scenario.
Akama is great, and is very likely better than his prime. My biggest problem with Akama Prime is, first you got to draw akama, then play akama, then allow akama to die, and only then you stand a chance to draw akama prime, and then you have to commit to a 6 mana do nothing. This is basically a slower Waxadred without infinite potential. In any aggro deck, where Akama Prime can possible be useful, even Wasteland Assassin seems like a better card. But because Akama himself is a decent stealth card, this will be seen in competitive play. The tragic thing is if akama gets silenced, that might actually come back to haunt your opponent, not you.
I think the idea is that you "lose" Akama Prime if the regular Akama gets Bamboozled. You're correct that you can't lose the Prime itself to the secret unless some mass Silence happens before that. And at that point you wouldn't mind losing a bare 6/5 minion.
How would you lose Akama prime to bamboozle if it's permanently stealthed? I don't understand your logic at all there.
Also, what rogue draw do you speak of? Card generation sure, but their current card draw pool isn't something that couldn't be replaced by some of the new cards. Sprint is too expensive, shiv and fan of knives are too weak and cards like stowaway or candle breath are deck-specific. Greyheart sage requires a specific deck too, but not many rogue cards can draw 2 for 2 mana like dirty tricks. It may be suboptimal as the card draw is delayed, but I can't think of why any of the cards mentioned above would be better in the general case.
This card is kind of interesting. I don't think it sees play now but it has potential. You drop this between two 1/1s and end the turn with 3 3/3s which is a solid 4 mana play, but its not like fungalmancer because you can't trade or push with the 3/3s that turn. You can still do stuff like trade your 2/3 into a 2/2 and then have it transform into a 3/3 but idk. This does have big synergy with cheap buffs though.
Cool design. Hope it sees play and it might with the right synergy/support.
I've now tried 5 times with Chrome over two days, once with Internet Explorer and once with Safari, and I get exactly the same issue each time. It's especially weird considering I have submitted to the last two competitions without issue.
Is there any alternate way I can submit? Time is rapidly running out.
The best we've been able to figure out is that there may be a limit to how much text is allowed as a description. Other than that, we don't know of any other issues that may be causing this.
Unfortunately there isn't another way to submit. We wouldn't be able to include your card in the voting pool without going through the competition system.
I didn't know that Even Shaman plays Totemic Might. The deck must be crazy OP then to support a card like this. I will play a few wild games to see this with my own eyes. If Totem Even Shaman is a thing, it could provide a model for my sets. Just less OP.
As for Murmuring Elemental, it's a risk I'm willing to take. So far, it hasn't been abused, and it's a good enabler for battlecry decks so it opens more design space than it closes imo. Rumbling Elemental, even buffed, doesn't feel as special.
@Este
My goal here was to boost totems by increasing their numbers and give them more synergy because that was supposed to be part of their identity. But I admit I can't playtest it so I don't know if that's enough. Apparently Totem Even Shaman is cancer in Wild which I didn't know, so totems can be good after all.
Mana Tide was played in the past, also card draw is a shaman weakness. I think it is fine as it is. Flametongue on the other hand is harder to fix because it's OP at 2 mana but sucks at 3 mana. I went with the weakest version because it's for the core sets. I will think about it.
I tried to give shaman early-game tools that are oriented towards defense rather than offense (Hammer of Sparks for instance) to avoid another 2016 midrange shaman.
However I stick to my decision to make Totemic Vigor. It's a very basic effect shaman should have, core cards aren't meant to be viable all the time, but if a token/totem shaman ever everges again, it will be happy to have this at its disposal. Also, giving totems attack and "can't attack" would make them more complicated and run counter to totem's flavor which ultimately are just sticks of wood. Perhaps I could buff them by reducing their cost or give them more health though.
For Overload, the risk when doing low-cost Overload minions is creating a curve of OP minions. Imagine you play Totem Golem on 2. It's very good. Then you play another Totem Golem on 3, which you can because you only have 1 mana overloaded. 3/4 on turn 3 is average. So just had an OP turn 2 because of overload, and because the second overload card compensates for the overloaded crystal you lost, you didn't really lost anything. If shaman is a snowball class, then it becomes unstoppable when its snowballing can't be stopped.
A Weekend of Wild Decks
.... How dare you
TNCAnswer's Highlander Hunter - Masters Tour Los Angeles
Time changes so fast - just a week ago, this was a viable standard deck ; RIP Leeroy - may you prosper on the wild side
Blizzard Lied
Go step by step on how you did it then.
Did you use a copy and pasted decklist?
Legends of Runeterra Official Launch, Mobile Access and New Card Set on April 30!
This is where the fun begins
What You are Looking Forward to Do with Demon Hunter Release
Personally I think everyone's plans for Aggro Demon Hunters are too slow, not aggro enough.
Outcast effects make cards broken, so my plan is to make my deck so cheap that it's almost always easy to get Outcast effects. I'm talking about almost no cards (2) with a mana cost higher than 2.
Our Thoughts on Hearthstone's Ashes of Outland Rogue Cards
This was also my favorite part of this review. Nice one, Shadows
A Weekend of Wild Decks
fuck quest mage.
Ashes of Outland: Meta prediction and Class ranking
It seems like a powerful deck, but the sample size here from that theorycrafting stream is pretty small, and most streamers were trying lots of classes/archetypes (some of which were not very successful), so I'd take that video with a grain of salt.
Ashes of Outland: Meta prediction and Class ranking
Demon Hunters
I generally agree. They're going to be nutty and meta defining. I think counter decking against them is possible though, but who knows.
Paladin
Somewhat disagree. This set seems promising for paladin but it aint no KotFT Warlock. Librams might be too slow and clunky to be used. Paladin looks good but not great.
Hunter
Really not sure here. The loss of zilliax is huge for hunter but if that means aggro/tempo decks are going to be more common that isn't good. Dragon Hunter has little comeback and is just decent at parity. It really shines when it gets ahead because of its ability to stay ahead but if decks are more focused on fighting for the board early it might actually be worse for hunter. Dragon hunter will still be a force though. Face hunter is a meme deck. It's going to be trash in a fast meta or any meta in general.
HIghlander might be better than dragon. Just depends on the meta. If it becomes an aggro meta you'll see warriors/priests do the control thing and highlander is probably much better against that kind of thing.
Rogue
Disagree on Rogue. Gala Rogue will still be tier 1. It's only slow in this meta because it's a slow meta, the deck can be tweaked to be faster by filling the slots its losing with tempo cards like SI Agent, Maiev, etc. Gala Rogue is busted and will remain so. Highlander Rogue with the Gala package seems a bit more sketchy but it could also be a thing.
On the other hand I think secret/stealth rogue is a bait. The secrets are easy to play around and ignore, it doesn't create the double threat that hunter secrets do which is the main reason hunter is the only good secret class. Stealth rogue is also not going to be that good. Playing fragile minions for some early tempo/face damage isn't going to be enough imo. Remember when secret paladin was going to be the nuts in RoS? I get the same vibe from this. Doesn't mean that some of the cards won't see play especially if highlander rogue is a thing. Just don't see it as it's own deck.
Warlock
Zoo will be a thing at the start of the year. It always is. How good or how long it will last remains to be seen.
Gala warlock gets better I think? Gets a few new things, matches up well enough against aggro, has different late game techs.
don't feel like spending brain power thinking about control warlock, but it has potential. you probably just play Gala warlock as your control deck and thats better though.
Druid
Druid is a class i'm really unsure of. With mage losing pocket galaxy and priest losing some things I think quest druid will be uncontested as the strongest late game class. It's super liable to certain kinds of aggro decks though, so it might be trash. It loses two super strong cards in the deck in Floop and Loti, but everything else remains and the package itself is still incredibly strong. Quest druid could still be a thing if the meta doesn't punish it.
Ramp/embiggen/dragon druid could be pretty strong.
Mage
every mage deck except highlander will be trash.
Highlander will be pretty good I think. It'll have to be built less greedy because no pocket but it still has some insane power plays and swingy cards with Zeph, Reno, Conj, Kalecgos, etc. Losing zilliax, the secret girl, pocket, and some other things do make its future questionable. Mage can always scam wins though.
Warrior
I think warrior is going to be good. You can make a gala deck that beats aggro and hits control in the face. battle rage needs to carry the deck but I think it's possible.
Priest and Shaman
Shit classes with bad cards. Might as well delete from the game.
Shaman has potential if they unnerf some shit but they mismanaged and ruined Shaman with descend of dragons. They released the class with one of the most absurd power levels ever seen which is the result of poor testing imo. Then they nerf it once hitting a lot of the wrong cards so people just cut those cards because it was the Gala package that was the busted part of the class anyway. Then they nerf the gala package (arguably the wrong part of it) and now the class is unplayable. The unnerf of Sludge Slurper helped aggro shaman come back but its losing all the cards that make it a deck.
Shaman is my favorite class and I'm super fucking annoyed with how they've ruined it.
Priest is just a walking dumpster fire and I feel the rework might have made it worst. They took away priests best cards and made some of the bad ones decent. I don't think that is a recipe for success. Their new cards look giga shit.
Blizzard Lied
It worked for me after leaving my fireside gathering:
Our Thoughts on Hearthstone's Ashes of Outland Rogue Cards
Since rogue is one of the big card draw classes (alongside warlock and druid) the need to draw it twice isn't that concerning. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if trusty old Waxadred gets played alongside Akama to have two great reasons to run Stowaway even before considering more gimmicky shuffle cards.
Daily Store Deals in MTG Arena for April 4, 2020 - 71% Off 5 M20 Cavaliers
Man, if I had a coin for every CCG I've seen that has five characters of different colours clearly referencing the Horsemen of the Apocalypse that DO NOT have an instant win effect when you control all of them, I'd have 2. I mean, it's not much, but it's weird that it happened twice.
I'll give Wizards this: their horsemen are more thematically consistent.
Our Thoughts on Hearthstone's Ashes of Outland Rogue Cards
"Choose from three great options: Mage, Hunter or Try Again"
Good thing Paladin is a healing class, because, good LORD, that burn!
Ashes of Outland: Meta prediction and Class ranking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6oD0F809VU&lc=z22eh5zqbo2oureenacdp433eocjbye3hd4wlogtxzxw03c010c.1585285326396219
video of firebat dominating with highlander
Blizzard Lied
Uh no, I am not in a fireside right now and it still gives that error
Our Thoughts on Hearthstone's Ashes of Outland Rogue Cards
Frosty covered the first part. I too had to think about the the card draw perspective and realized that he meant Galakrond and Toggwaggle.
True, running those two I have on occasion come up against a full hand, because the only low drops I can play are targeted (Sap, Backstab) on an empty board or card generating themselves (damn you inconvenient Dranconic Lackey!) But both of those are fairly late game scenarios. Not sure that I agree with the broader opinion.
Who has started converting their decks to prepare for post rotation?
I tend to do it as well, but without expectations, since having a disadvantage is not really telling of the situation to come.
Also, new cards add further variables.
So, at the end of the day, removing rotating cards in advance is nearly useless: you don't really get a glimpse of the future available plays and meta.
It can help at understanding which packages in a deck survive, and which ones lose too many cards to stay viable, leaving even more room for future development starting Release day.
Our Thoughts on Hearthstone's Ashes of Outland Rogue Cards
We know rogue is pretty good already, so there's no need for me to hammer it home. I'll just state some few observations;
Bamboozle is pretty much the strongest of all the secrets if you're playing for tempo since it effectively discourages opponents to trade into any minions. Even a 1 drop can be upgraded into a 4 drop that your opponent cant deal with, and thereby giving you an advantage. This is particularly effective when you have low health, high attack stuff like Spymistress. And if they feel like using a spell, then it might activate Dirty Tricks, giving you a card advantage. Not to mention that your opponent would need to commit resources to do all of that. So you might well see a spymistress simply surviving all 3 turns, best case scenario.
Akama is great, and is very likely better than his prime. My biggest problem with Akama Prime is, first you got to draw akama, then play akama, then allow akama to die, and only then you stand a chance to draw akama prime, and then you have to commit to a 6 mana do nothing. This is basically a slower Waxadred without infinite potential. In any aggro deck, where Akama Prime can possible be useful, even Wasteland Assassin seems like a better card. But because Akama himself is a decent stealth card, this will be seen in competitive play. The tragic thing is if akama gets silenced, that might actually come back to haunt your opponent, not you.
Our Thoughts on Hearthstone's Ashes of Outland Rogue Cards
I think the idea is that you "lose" Akama Prime if the regular Akama gets Bamboozled. You're correct that you can't lose the Prime itself to the secret unless some mass Silence happens before that. And at that point you wouldn't mind losing a bare 6/5 minion.
Our Thoughts on Hearthstone's Ashes of Outland Rogue Cards
How would you lose Akama prime to bamboozle if it's permanently stealthed? I don't understand your logic at all there.
Also, what rogue draw do you speak of? Card generation sure, but their current card draw pool isn't something that couldn't be replaced by some of the new cards. Sprint is too expensive, shiv and fan of knives are too weak and cards like stowaway or candle breath are deck-specific. Greyheart sage requires a specific deck too, but not many rogue cards can draw 2 for 2 mana like dirty tricks. It may be suboptimal as the card draw is delayed, but I can't think of why any of the cards mentioned above would be better in the general case.
New Neutral Minion - Replicat-o-tron
This card is kind of interesting. I don't think it sees play now but it has potential. You drop this between two 1/1s and end the turn with 3 3/3s which is a solid 4 mana play, but its not like fungalmancer because you can't trade or push with the 3/3s that turn. You can still do stuff like trade your 2/3 into a 2/2 and then have it transform into a 3/3 but idk. This does have big synergy with cheap buffs though.
Cool design. Hope it sees play and it might with the right synergy/support.
Demonic Obsession - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
I tried reducing the text and it worked. Thanks for the help.
VengaDragon Live
Demonic Obsession - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
The best we've been able to figure out is that there may be a limit to how much text is allowed as a description. Other than that, we don't know of any other issues that may be causing this.
Unfortunately there isn't another way to submit. We wouldn't be able to include your card in the voting pool without going through the competition system.
Cheese's custom revamp of the SHAMAN core sets!
@Neoguli
I didn't know that Even Shaman plays Totemic Might. The deck must be crazy OP then to support a card like this. I will play a few wild games to see this with my own eyes. If Totem Even Shaman is a thing, it could provide a model for my sets. Just less OP.
As for Murmuring Elemental, it's a risk I'm willing to take. So far, it hasn't been abused, and it's a good enabler for battlecry decks so it opens more design space than it closes imo. Rumbling Elemental, even buffed, doesn't feel as special.
@Este
My goal here was to boost totems by increasing their numbers and give them more synergy because that was supposed to be part of their identity. But I admit I can't playtest it so I don't know if that's enough. Apparently Totem Even Shaman is cancer in Wild which I didn't know, so totems can be good after all.
Mana Tide was played in the past, also card draw is a shaman weakness. I think it is fine as it is. Flametongue on the other hand is harder to fix because it's OP at 2 mana but sucks at 3 mana. I went with the weakest version because it's for the core sets. I will think about it.
I tried to give shaman early-game tools that are oriented towards defense rather than offense (Hammer of Sparks for instance) to avoid another 2016 midrange shaman.
However I stick to my decision to make Totemic Vigor. It's a very basic effect shaman should have, core cards aren't meant to be viable all the time, but if a token/totem shaman ever everges again, it will be happy to have this at its disposal. Also, giving totems attack and "can't attack" would make them more complicated and run counter to totem's flavor which ultimately are just sticks of wood. Perhaps I could buff them by reducing their cost or give them more health though.
For Overload, the risk when doing low-cost Overload minions is creating a curve of OP minions. Imagine you play Totem Golem on 2. It's very good. Then you play another Totem Golem on 3, which you can because you only have 1 mana overloaded. 3/4 on turn 3 is average. So just had an OP turn 2 because of overload, and because the second overload card compensates for the overloaded crystal you lost, you didn't really lost anything. If shaman is a snowball class, then it becomes unstoppable when its snowballing can't be stopped.