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Never seen Hir'eek's face that closely. Nightmare inducing!

Quote From DoubleSummon

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Just save cards in your hand don't play any card that has the mana cost equal to the mana you have that turn.

if you are against a deck that you know runs the card, play cards only after ruination, or don't play them when they have enough mana..

If they have 6/3(spell mana) mana open attack.. or just pass. you don't have to play that darius or hecarim.

Well, that was part of my point, their decks are designed to be strong end game so you're kind of up a creek without a paddle.

Your goal is to not make ruination too good of a play, and have reload in your hand, make them float mana, or start playing stuff when their mana is not 9.. they can't float 9 mana forever..

Apply pressure, but not enough so you won't be able to reload.

Either your deck building is flawed, your game play or your conception of board clears..

You know what's the best way to learn to counter a card? just play it! learn how it does.. it's not HS you can just craft a "ruination deck" and play it, if it's so broken get to masters.

But they can do the exact same thing but still do the same minus one card so I don't see how your counterpoint is a counterpoint. (Likely with more because glimpse is a pretty good card and it's in most Isle's decks. (Just so we're alllllll clear I'm in no way claiming glimpse is overpowered, but it is good.))

Quote From Avalon

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"Git gud" or other things.

Your opinion is noted, and discareded

A good laugh here and there might help you to be relaxed even when things are not perfect ;)

Like I said on another, I'm still enjoying the game. I can enjoy a game that's not perfectly balanced. I mean Hell, I played vanilla WoW.

Unstable Felbolt is indeed a weaker Holy Smite, but warlock has something priest doesn't have and that' card draw, so it's weaker by a margin except when played on an empty board.. mostly spells and board clears are played while behind, if you have no board it's a good card, would definitely run it in a handlock deck.. which wants to run shadow council as well, so if it's useless in the matchup and you are ahead, turn it into a +2/+ 2 demon.

What are some of your favorite and slightly unexpected combos?

Mine would be Zed and Single Combat. When attacking his clone is very useful for Single Combat, it's equivalent to 3 (usually) attack buff, and can actually bypass shield and (usually) frostbite.

And from a fluff perspective, it's funny that Lucianis a good combo with the Dead Isles.

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Quote From DoubleSummon

Just save cards in your hand don't play any card that has the mana cost equal to the mana you have that turn.

if you are against a deck that you know runs the card, play cards only after ruination, or don't play them when they have enough mana..

If they have 6/3(spell mana) mana open attack.. or just pass. you don't have to play that darius or hecarim.

Well, that was part of my point, their decks are designed to be strong end game so you're kind of up a creek without a paddle.

Your goal is to not make ruination too good of a play, and have reload in your hand, make them float mana, or start playing stuff when their mana is not 9.. they can't float 9 mana forever..

Apply pressure, but not enough so you won't be able to reload.

Either your deck building is flawed, your game play or your conception of board clears..

You know what's the best way to learn to counter a card? just play it! learn how it does.. it's not HS you can just craft a "ruination deck" and play it, if it's so broken get to masters.

Quote From NerdExtrodinare

Quote From Avalon

"Git gud" or other things.

Your opinion is noted, and discareded

A good laugh here and there might help you to be relaxed even when things are not perfect ;)

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Well, Blizzard has said multiple times that they aren't a fan of no-counterplay OTKs (which is what basically all combos in this game are) so they've gradually decreased combo support, especially for the classes known for it.

Druid still gets some, just look at Ysiel and Imprisoned Satyr. Rogue also is able to play Malygos quite well, but they don't exactly have the tools to survive that long. Mage got basically kicked out of the combo game when they removed Ice Block, and now Priest is gone too

They did say that ... and they keep introducing cards like Kaelthas. Just because we dont see an OTK deck right now does not mean they wont rise again when tools like this exist. Just you wait.

oh of course, it's not like they completely eliminated the concept, but they intentionally make these things harder to pull off and much less "viable".

Look at Hunter, they got like..a bunch of different OTKs, but nobody plays them because it's Hunter and therefore impossible to pull off consistently...and that's how it should be.

OTKs in a game like this shouldn't be competitive because it makes the game one sided and frustrating (I don't think anyone wants Freeze Mage back).

Wild doesn't count.

I just instantly concede when I see the quest played, if it's a terrible matchup anyway, saves loads of time xD

Well, Blizzard has said multiple times that they aren't a fan of no-counterplay OTKs (which is what basically all combos in this game are) so they've gradually decreased combo support, especially for the classes known for it.

Druid still gets some, just look at Ysiel and Imprisoned Satyr. Rogue also is able to play Malygos quite well, but they don't exactly have the tools to survive that long. Mage got basically kicked out of the combo game when they removed Ice Block, and now Priest is gone too

Quote From RandomGuy

Them: See on HSReplay and VS that everyone is playing Bomb Hunter
Also them: Play token druid to counter
Me: Plays tempo rogue - destroys both.

<insert smart meme>

You don't have to adapt to the meta if you dictate the meta 

I was playing Even Shaman on the wild ladder, queued into Toggwaggle Druid - but didn't knew just yet - the druid rushed trough his deck, and only has 2 more cards into his, which was already a strong hint of his game plan. I played The Lich King who gave me Death Grip. Used it the following turn, stole King Togwaggle ; won the game 

That felt like an epic outcome!

Year of the Dragon is a tempo meta.  Combo is kind of dead and the only (good) combo decks from Year of the Dragon are rotating in combo priest / holy wrath paladin.  There is always Maly druid but it'll probably be super bad.

Seems like the devs don't really like combo that much, are at least the ones who make final decisions don't want to push it.  They've said more or less the same thing in some quotes.  I mean a lot of combo decks are supported by "accident".  Stuff like Holy Wrath pally, Shudderwock Shaman, Topsy priest aren't things they ever saw coming, at least they didn't see them being real decks coming.  Sometimes they print cards that have clear combo implications but they don't support it as hard as control/aggro.  It's rare you see a card like Mechathun, and they're usually bad (Hakkar).

Reading the dark portal's text made me think of a certain red panda

Demonx95's review for Keli'dan the Breaker and the Heart of the cards analogy got me like  

Isn't Unstable Felbolt made for a specific deck, and not just to function as a Holy Smite? (Looking at you, Egg lock). 

It would fit perfectly in such a deck, as it's cheap, deals damage of your choice and destroys one of your eggs.

Late game Plot Twist could work for Keli’dan. Deathrattles like Enhanced Dreadlord also works well in that deck. Early game is still missing though

Quote From DoubleSummon

Just save cards in your hand don't play any card that has the mana cost equal to the mana you have that turn.

if you are against a deck that you know runs the card, play cards only after ruination, or don't play them when they have enough mana..

If they have 6/3(spell mana) mana open attack.. or just pass. you don't have to play that darius or hecarim.

Well, that was part of my point, their decks are designed to be strong end game so you're kind of up a creek without a paddle.

Quote From Almaniarra

Just here to see your reasoning after seeing the title but well, your reasoning is poorer than your statement.

Good luck on your card game life. With this consideration skills, it won't take much time for you to stop playing.

I'm enjoying the game, thank you very much. Though I know you were actually being a sarcastic jerk. Cheers

Quote From meisterz39

To preface all of this, I think you're probably wrong about The Ruination being OP - in fact, I think it's being punished by a separate and more insidious issue with the game's balance. But let's break this down a little bit.

 

Quote From NerdExtrodinare

Runeterra, card economy is supremely valuable. Any card that gives you the card advantage is supremely valuable. Ruination is that on steroids.

 

The part about card economy is entirely true. Card draw is limited, there's no "enemy discard" tools, and there's not a ton of AoE. On top of that, the powerful AoE in the game is fairly slow (e.g. Shadow Flare, Trueshot Barrage, Judgment, and The Ruination - all are expensive, and all of which have a power level that scales with cost.)

The Ruination gives you a lot of card advantage, but it's very slow, so I'm not sure "on steroids" is quite right.

 

Quote From NerdExtrodinare

It's never a bad draw. Ever. Either you're already winning on the battlefield in which case you're good. If you're not, it's a complete wipe of the board. And unless the opponent has been playing slow (giving just more opportunity for the ruination deck to draw said card) you'll kill pretty much everything they have.

 

This is plainly wrong, and frankly it's kind of obviously wrong based on your point about card advantage.

Control decks rely on card advantage and inevitability, so in a game where it's harder to get card advantage, aggro is "naturally stronger." That doesn't mean there cannot be any effective control decks, or bad aggro decks, it just means it's easier than usual to make optimal aggro decks, and harder than usual to make optimal control decks.

So, because the game favors board-centric and aggro strategies, there will always be match-ups and turns where drawing a 9-drop spell is terrible for you. Your "two exceptions" basically demonstrate that aggro issue, but interestingly your first argument for it never being bad is exactly when it would bad in a control mirror. If you draw a big, expensive board wipe in a game where the board is under control, that's bad because that's exactly when you want to be drawing your big threats.

 

Quote From NerdExtrodinare

It only costs 9. That's by sixth turn. And unless the opponent is playing a facedeck you'll get there.

 

…

I'm all for balancing things, I just can't think of any way to make Ruination not stupidly overpowered. Making it cost 13 would help, but it'd still be a soft "I win" button.

 

Notably I'm skipping the middle sentence here (mostly because I think the theme of killing your own units in Shadow Isles is a good one, and that it's okay for The Ruination to play well with that in general).

I think this actually highlights the real balance problem, and it's a problem I've been thinking about for a little while with Runeterra. I think the Spell Mana bank is actually a bad thing for balance.

The Spell Mana bank was one of the things that originally drew me to Runeterra because it seemed like a really cool concept to enable players to think several turns ahead, and to enable "unusually powerful" cards like Warmother's Call. Part of having that bank, though, is a requirement that any spell that costs less than 10 mana must be balanced against being played three turns early or essentially "for free." I think there are a lot of CCGs where a 6 mana symmetric board wipe is actually considered very fair. Because of the Spell Mana bank, though, you could never make The Ruination cost 6 - it would be able to come down way too early. So, The Ruination (and really all of the AoE and big card draw tools) incurs a tax on its cost to make up for that mechanic.

But as anyone who has played Hearthstone for long enough can tell you, mana cheating a card out is one of the biggest threats to balance, and Spell Mana basically represents a constant threat of mana cheating. And decks playing spells right on the sweet spot for the mana bank (2 or 3 drop spells), making your cards essentially free is a much more powerful and problematic thing than making your AoE come down a little early. In fact, this cheap spell balance problem is exactly why Deny had to be nerfed from 3 to 4 mana - to get it out of this "free spell" breakpoint in the Spell Mana mechanic.

Some might say that you're not really cheating the mana - you're paying for it by making inefficient plays on previous turns. But in the early turns your opponent doesn't have enough mana to punish you that much for your inefficiency, and in the late turns the issue is moot because you've got enough mana to play everything you want to.

A good example of this false payment was the Solitary Monk + Stand Alone combo - dropping a 7/6 elusive unit on turn 3 is a major threat, and the 1/1 or 2/2 that your opponent has been threatening you with hasn't pressured you enough to make that combo bad. (I know the meta has kind of moved past this combo and the Lux/Karma decks, but it makes for a good example of what I'm talking about.)

I'd disagree with the disagreement, but that's for the obvious reason that it was my original point :D

I very much agree with the spell pool point. I like the idea, but yeah, balancing it is... Questionable. 

And thank you for not being an ass.

Quote From Avalon

"Git gud" or other things.

Your opinion is noted, and discareded

Captain's Log // Stardate 768-Alpha

I read this while hearing my roommate watching TNG in the other room 

Legends speak of a time when all five pieces of Guldan are completed, instant victory will be achieved.

Quest Summons 1 - Fungal Gargantuan

Rush - Fungal Bruiser

Taunt - Fungal Guardian