Normally when a deck is super popular, I take a look at the stats but in this case ...
Looks like it wins its worst matchup is almost 60% of the time, which is hilarious. This is a 41k sample size, so it's not some kind of fluke.
Wow, that's just disgusting. I am curious to see how the meta will look like in a couple of weeks and I really hope wild doesn't have that AK74 problem again.
Class matchups aren't very reliable though. It destroys any and all forms of OTK paladins and (I guess) it's slightly unfavored against odd paladin. Which is why its winrate is still positive. Deck to deck winrates are far more reliable, but unfortunately hsreplay doesn't offer those for wild.
@RavenSunHS: Best option is to switch to druid or warrior who can out-armor their burn, yeah. Secret tech doesn't seem to help much.
lol, it was a lot of cards this time. I never realized before writing it that there were so many faceless scattered though so many card sets. I appreciate your appreciation for the work.
Played 2 games with this in wild casual. First against a jade shaman. I thought I was losing, but eventually won. Second was against a warlock. He cleared my board a few times, but eventually went big and left my totems up, probably thinking they were worthless. Devolve, totemic surge, ancestral knowledge into jade lightning. This deck is so sleeper.
To be fair I wonder why nearly no one (except some Shamans in the form of Earth Shock) doesn't run Silence.
Because there isn't a whole lot of magnetize synergy going on. Not enough to warrant running silence cards anyway.
And silencing Zilliax on its own is absolutely useless. By the time you get to interact with it it's already lost the majority of its perks (divine shield, rush and the first lifesteal). At that point you're silencing a 3/2 with lifesteal and taunt...
I like the idea of generating dragons out of thin air for "if you're holding a dragon" synergy. Tho the token should cost 1 mana, paying 4 mana to play a 2/2 is beyond abysmal.
PS: Make your cards (images) smaller, ideally 200-220 in width, since we dont have spoiler function implemented yet, having a lot of cards with large images is very off-putting to the reader.
Is Zola and Bog Slosher even desirable for that deck? I ran Zola before the quest came out to get more fuel but with the new hero power I have more than enough gas to overwhelm enemies, and Zola thus felt both redundant and terribly slow, and Slosher seems to make the Shudder boards worse, as it both fills my hand with Lackeys and then mills the bounced Jades.
I have found them both useful in many situations. Helping finish your quest faster with your Lackey generators, shutting down opponents turn after turn with Loatheb, Eater of Secrets, getting ridiculous heals from Antique Healbot, more Jades from Jade Spirit, and shutting down aggro boards with additional [Hearthstone Card (Sandstorm Elementals) Not Found]. Most of my games aren't won with Shudderwock anyways, and I have never felt it negatively effect my Shudder boards in any ways.
Thank you for the kind words. Honestly, the introduction of Omega cards through Boomsday has really made me reconsider the potency of invokes at high cost, because those can offer fairly substantial rewards for having 10 mana without actually costing more and yet very few saw any play, including Omega Agent, which is almost definitely better than Trouble, though that was never really intended to be a great card. The keyword definitely provides a design challenge when making high invoke cost cards for that reason, it's often like making two cards at once and balancing them against each other.
I love my Paladin Quest. I have had more quits from opponents when they see me drop lifesteal minions and copy them than not. Also, copying a magnetized mech like Mechanical Whelp with a Zilliax, is just wonderful
I've been playing Jade Quest Shaman with Eater of Secrets instead of Kezan and without Healbot (double Lifedrinker though) and I don't think it's a good matchup. Even with healbot, the issue is most frequently both completing the quest before you die (you essentially have to get both Sludge Slurper and Cable Rat in order to do so in time) and, above all, controlling the board. You can Antique Healbot all you want but they're not really spending that many spells burning you down, they just beat you up reoeatedly with minions and nothing you play sticks. Secret Mage has an absurdly fast early game while Quest Shaman barely does anything impactful until turn 4. Once they start landing their Crystal Runners and Cloud Princes, all you got is a hope and a prayer that you've had your Hagatha's Scheme in hand from turn 1 and that the secret they have up isn't Counterspell (cause you don't really have that many cheap, throwaway spells, nor the time to play them). My Jade Shudder Shaman has been doing very well a day or two ago and over the entirety of its existence it has lost exactly one game to Warlocks (and I play against them all the time, so that's an amazing statistic), but Paladins (mech handbuff, Flying Machine variety) and Secret Mages started appearing a lot more now and keep holding me down. My Mage winrate with that deck is tear-inducing, despite beating up on Reno Mages.
I've been building my jade quest shaman the other way. That is, making it faster in attempts to prevent the early chip damage and threaten lethal myself sometimes rather than take damage and try to heal it after. I find that a lot of mages even at high ranks are wasting burn on my scary minions. My winrate has been fair, but like I said earlier, I'm looking for something that counters mage a bit harder
The typical secret mage hard runs 3*4+6*6=48 points of direct face damage, not including variable explosive runes damage. Even druids and reno decks are going to struggle out healing that amount of damage, especially considering that their secrets are preventing you from reliving minion pressure easily. I suspect the control strategy of trying to turtle up might not be the best way to beat them. If you really want to go with this line though, I suggest adding Doomsayers as most lists run two Mirror Entity and otherwise healing for 7+ is not bad
Priest and warrior are classes to look at. A lot of the mage minions have a 3 HP statline and those classes have great ways of dealing 3 along with the ability to play a tempo game with well statted minions. Zilliax should be an inclusion in any deck trying to beat mage as it lines up well, heals for a bit and somewhat deals with runes
Eggs might be another thing to look into because of their interaction with mirror entity and runes, though egg based decks are pretty sketchy in a competitive context. I've tried to test out a bit of egg priest. It absolutely stomps control mage and beat the one secret mage I queued into but amount of losses I racked up vs other classes told me beating mage (which I haven't gathered enough data to suggest it does yet) wasn't worth it
Well all shamans I face are quest ones. So Shaman only plays that deck now it seems. Paladin has 2 decks left, one is the quest the other is the OTK/combo one. Hunter quest I see rarely, mage quest never. I have 0 winrate with it. Do not even know how to buff that one properly. Priest quest is strong. Warrior would be OK if warrior did not have even stronger T1 decks to choose from.
Realy - what server are you playing on? because im playing EU and the Shamans i face are mostly murloc Shamans - sure some Quest Shamans pop up now and then but mostly Murlocs.
Only had one opponent playing the Hunter Quest since the new expansion and i personaly think that it is not that good - Mage i saw some at the start of the Expansion but now not a single one!
Priest Quest is pretty strong in some sort of Rezz/Wall Priest and Warrior could maybe work in some sort of Aggro Build i guess. Warlock Quest also does not realy see play right now and the only build i saw with the Quest that i realy liked was some kind of Mecha'thun build - but to slow/weak for the ladder.
Man, imagine if something like this would actually got implemented in real game... Dreaming is nice. Good job on class, very creative! Maybe we could see something similar to Invoke mechanic in the future, it is very cool :)
(Warning! This class is lore-loose, so if something isn't canon don't freak out.)
Dragon Tamers are people that can communicate, befriend and, as you can expect, tame Dragons. Of course, some Dragons (Like Dragon Aspects) are highly intelligent creatures that you can't treat like a pet, however most of them are just animals acting on their instincts. This class has 3 main flavors: tamed Dragons, wild Dragons, and breeding Dragons. Tamed Dragons are mainly used for battle, but also have their uses as guards, observers or transport. Tamers also create tools to immitate Dragons, or protect from them. Wild Dragons are mostly dangerous and are force no mere human can stand against. They have nests and they hunt. Tamers don't tame every Dragon they encounter, they also keep the free ones save and they help them in their time of need.
Prince Mroggus Lore - Prince of Corrupted Dragonflight, one of the last of his people. Selfproclaimed Corrupted Dragonflight was a tribe of creatures who gave up their civilized selfs to N'Zoth, with whom they made a pact. They offered their aid to him in exchange for making them one with the Dragons. Old God agrred and changed their bodies, along with their senses. They were annihilated during Cataclysm, with only few survivors. Prince Mroggus now seeks revenge and wants to rebuild his lost glory.
Hero Power: Due to lack of draw and card generation, I wanted to give this class something to do when it has ran out of resources. (Upgraded HP will come along with TGT)
Basic Set:
Generic card for new players to expirience some Dragon action.
Tempo card for early game. 3 damage for 1 Mana is pretty big and this card
has a very easy activator considering that most cards are Dragons.
Is Zola and Bog Slosher even desirable for that deck? I ran Zola before the quest came out to get more fuel but with the new hero power I have more than enough gas to overwhelm enemies, and Zola thus felt both redundant and terribly slow, and Slosher seems to make the Shudder boards worse, as it both fills my hand with Lackeys and then mills the bounced Jades.
If you ask me, this isn't that much of a problem. As long as you play a lot of jade summoners prior to Shudderwock, you will have plenty of jades on the board, which will threaten the opponent. Personally for me, both of those cards are fine, as it doesn't hurt to gain extra value from Sludge Slurper, EVIL Cable Rat and Jade Spirit against Reno or Taunt Warrior. Sometimes I play Shudder, in order to refill my hand and protect my value from an annoying Dirty Rat. Oftentimes I copy/bounce Loatheb, in order to shut down the opponent's board clears.
But this is only regarding all matchups beside burn mage. I agree with you, as I've said it before, that jade quest shaman isn't good in a meta, where burn mage is running rampant.
I've pushed out an editor update that may resolve the issue.
Pretty strange we're only hearing about this one in particular now. If the issue does persist, can you confirm it also exists when you disable all your browser addons? Sometimes those can do evil against sites.
Is Zola and Bog Slosher even desirable for that deck? I ran Zola before the quest came out to get more fuel but with the new hero power I have more than enough gas to overwhelm enemies, and Zola thus felt both redundant and terribly slow, and Slosher seems to make the Shudder boards worse, as it both fills my hand with Lackeys and then mills the bounced Jades.
Normally when a deck is super popular, I take a look at the stats but in this case ...
Looks like it wins its worst matchup is almost 60% of the time, which is hilarious. This is a 41k sample size, so it's not some kind of fluke. I've played a few decks that have been fair against mage, but those are by no means counters. If anyone figures out how to do it reliably, I'd love to hear about it too
I've been playing Jade Quest Shaman with Eater of Secrets instead of Kezan and without Healbot (double Lifedrinker though) and I don't think it's a good matchup. Even with healbot, the issue is most frequently both completing the quest before you die (you essentially have to get both Sludge Slurper and Cable Rat in order to do so in time) and, above all, controlling the board. You can Antique Healbot all you want but they're not really spending that many spells burning you down, they just beat you up reoeatedly with minions and nothing you play sticks. Secret Mage has an absurdly fast early game while Quest Shaman barely does anything impactful until turn 4. Once they start landing their Crystal Runners and Cloud Princes, all you got is a hope and a prayer that you've had your Hagatha's Scheme in hand from turn 1 and that the secret they have up isn't Counterspell (cause you don't really have that many cheap, throwaway spells, nor the time to play them). My Jade Shudder Shaman has been doing very well a day or two ago and over the entirety of its existence it has lost exactly one game to Warlocks (and I play against them all the time, so that's an amazing statistic), but Paladins (mech handbuff, Flying Machine variety) and Secret Mages started appearing a lot more now and keep holding me down. My Mage winrate with that deck is tear-inducing, despite beating up on Reno Mages.
I've been playing Jade Quest Shaman too, and have had a few matches I was able to keep Burn Mage under control, but for the most part don't stand a chance. It comes down to drawing either Antique Healbot or Eater of Secrets. If you can bounce the eater back to your hand with either Zola the Gorgon or Bog Slosher, it's GG. Otherwise, you don't stand a chance.
Thanks for checking out my deck! I really like this deck, however, it might not be that great against Reno decks. The only reason I say this is because you don't control when your bombs go off and if you're unlucky your opponent might use Reno before he draws a lot of your bombs. It does produce an absurd of amount of damage though, so feel free to try it.
Another deck you can try is a hyper aggro mech hunter deck.
I really like the Invoke mechanic. I think Choose One-like effects are always really interesting for card games (in this case: play it earlier or later but with more impact). Cards that make you take a decision before playing them, thinking on the long-term game, are my favorites.
I'm really glad you're enjoying this deck! I can't blame you for not wanting to craft Millhouse Manastorm. I think I only use him in 2 out of over 100 decks, so it's really not worth it. Keep tweaking it, I'm sure all my decks will require a bit of changing since I don't tailor them to the current meta, but instead try to create the best possible deck list for each archetype. Good luck with your ranked climb and have fun!
BoB - Best of Both
also did not find any use for Storm Chaser
SoU Wild meta
Class matchups aren't very reliable though. It destroys any and all forms of OTK paladins and (I guess) it's slightly unfavored against odd paladin. Which is why its winrate is still positive. Deck to deck winrates are far more reliable, but unfortunately hsreplay doesn't offer those for wild.
@RavenSunHS: Best option is to switch to druid or warrior who can out-armor their burn, yeah. Secret tech doesn't seem to help much.
Dragon Tamer (26.08.2019 - Basic)
yeah, I didn't notice that at first, but flight is terribly overcosted.
The Old Gods, Masters of Madness - Traversing Azeroth
lol, it was a lot of cards this time. I never realized before writing it that there were so many faceless scattered though so many card sets. I appreciate your appreciation for the work.
Dragon Tamer (26.08.2019 - Basic)
Maybe I'm missing something, but compared to stealth flight seems really weak
The Old Gods, Masters of Madness - Traversing Azeroth
It's never too late mate, lol. I'll take feedback or complements anytime.
Toteven Shaman
Played 2 games with this in wild casual. First against a jade shaman. I thought I was losing, but eventually won. Second was against a warlock. He cleared my board a few times, but eventually went big and left my totems up, probably thinking they were worthless. Devolve, totemic surge, ancestral knowledge into jade lightning. This deck is so sleeper.
Zilliax
Because there isn't a whole lot of magnetize synergy going on. Not enough to warrant running silence cards anyway.
And silencing Zilliax on its own is absolutely useless. By the time you get to interact with it it's already lost the majority of its perks (divine shield, rush and the first lifesteal). At that point you're silencing a 3/2 with lifesteal and taunt...
Dragon Tamer (26.08.2019 - Basic)
I like the idea of generating dragons out of thin air for "if you're holding a dragon" synergy. Tho the token should cost 1 mana, paying 4 mana to play a 2/2 is beyond abysmal.
PS: Make your cards (images) smaller, ideally 200-220 in width, since we dont have spoiler function implemented yet, having a lot of cards with large images is very off-putting to the reader.
SoU Wild meta
I have found them both useful in many situations. Helping finish your quest faster with your Lackey generators, shutting down opponents turn after turn with Loatheb, Eater of Secrets, getting ridiculous heals from Antique Healbot, more Jades from Jade Spirit, and shutting down aggro boards with additional [Hearthstone Card (Sandstorm Elementals) Not Found]. Most of my games aren't won with Shudderwock anyways, and I have never felt it negatively effect my Shudder boards in any ways.
Fan Community Spotlight - Maxlot's Summoner Class
Thank you for the kind words.
Honestly, the introduction of Omega cards through Boomsday has really made me reconsider the potency of invokes at high cost, because those can offer fairly substantial rewards for having 10 mana without actually costing more and yet very few saw any play, including Omega Agent, which is almost definitely better than Trouble, though that was never really intended to be a great card. The keyword definitely provides a design challenge when making high invoke cost cards for that reason, it's often like making two cards at once and balancing them against each other.
Possibility of buffs regarding Quests
I love my Paladin Quest. I have had more quits from opponents when they see me drop lifesteal minions and copy them than not. Also, copying a magnetized mech like Mechanical Whelp with a Zilliax, is just wonderful
The Old Gods, Masters of Madness - Traversing Azeroth
Awesome writing and loved the article. Looking forward for the next part and keep up the good work!
SoU Wild meta
I've been building my jade quest shaman the other way. That is, making it faster in attempts to prevent the early chip damage and threaten lethal myself sometimes rather than take damage and try to heal it after. I find that a lot of mages even at high ranks are wasting burn on my scary minions. My winrate has been fair, but like I said earlier, I'm looking for something that counters mage a bit harder
The typical secret mage hard runs 3*4+6*6=48 points of direct face damage, not including variable explosive runes damage. Even druids and reno decks are going to struggle out healing that amount of damage, especially considering that their secrets are preventing you from reliving minion pressure easily. I suspect the control strategy of trying to turtle up might not be the best way to beat them. If you really want to go with this line though, I suggest adding Doomsayers as most lists run two Mirror Entity and otherwise healing for 7+ is not bad
Priest and warrior are classes to look at. A lot of the mage minions have a 3 HP statline and those classes have great ways of dealing 3 along with the ability to play a tempo game with well statted minions. Zilliax should be an inclusion in any deck trying to beat mage as it lines up well, heals for a bit and somewhat deals with runes
Eggs might be another thing to look into because of their interaction with mirror entity and runes, though egg based decks are pretty sketchy in a competitive context. I've tried to test out a bit of egg priest. It absolutely stomps control mage and beat the one secret mage I queued into but amount of losses I racked up vs other classes told me beating mage (which I haven't gathered enough data to suggest it does yet) wasn't worth it
Possibility of buffs regarding Quests
Realy - what server are you playing on? because im playing EU and the Shamans i face are mostly murloc Shamans - sure some Quest Shamans pop up now and then but mostly Murlocs.
Only had one opponent playing the Hunter Quest since the new expansion and i personaly think that it is not that good - Mage i saw some at the start of the Expansion but now not a single one!
Priest Quest is pretty strong in some sort of Rezz/Wall Priest and Warrior could maybe work in some sort of Aggro Build i guess. Warlock Quest also does not realy see play right now and the only build i saw with the Quest that i realy liked was some kind of Mecha'thun build - but to slow/weak for the ladder.
Fan Community Spotlight - Maxlot's Summoner Class
Man, imagine if something like this would actually got implemented in real game... Dreaming is nice. Good job on class, very creative! Maybe we could see something similar to Invoke mechanic in the future, it is very cool :)
Dragon Tamer (26.08.2019 - Basic)
(Warning! This class is lore-loose, so if something isn't canon don't freak out.)
Dragon Tamers are people that can communicate, befriend and, as you can expect, tame Dragons. Of course, some Dragons (Like Dragon Aspects) are highly intelligent creatures that you can't treat like a pet, however most of them are just animals acting on their instincts. This class has 3 main flavors: tamed Dragons, wild Dragons, and breeding Dragons. Tamed Dragons are mainly used for battle, but also have their uses as guards, observers or transport. Tamers also create tools to immitate Dragons, or protect from them. Wild Dragons are mostly dangerous and are force no mere human can stand against. They have nests and they hunt. Tamers don't tame every Dragon they encounter, they also keep the free ones save and they help them in their time of need.
Prince Mroggus Lore - Prince of Corrupted Dragonflight, one of the last of his people. Selfproclaimed Corrupted Dragonflight was a tribe of creatures who gave up their civilized selfs to N'Zoth, with whom they made a pact. They offered their aid to him in exchange for making them one with the Dragons. Old God agrred and changed their bodies, along with their senses. They were annihilated during Cataclysm, with only few survivors. Prince Mroggus now seeks revenge and wants to rebuild his lost glory.
Hero Power: Due to lack of draw and card generation, I wanted to give this class something to do when it has ran out of resources. (Upgraded HP will come along with TGT)
Basic Set:
Generic card for new players to expirience some Dragon action.
Tempo card for early game. 3 damage for 1 Mana is pretty big and this card
has a very easy activator considering that most cards are Dragons.
Remember Power Overwhelming? This serves the same purpose but is
(I think at least) more balanced.
Cheap damage (an upgraded Elven Archer).
A draw that tutors! Mainly for drawing AoE.
HP and Dragon support.
Not a complete Immunity but does its job. You want to protect an important card?
Here you go.
Assassinate that does damage.
Vanilla stated minion. Good for beginners to counter Boulderfist Ogre.
Big AoE.
PS: Classic is done but I'm lazy so I'm gonna update it later.
SoU Wild meta
If you ask me, this isn't that much of a problem. As long as you play a lot of jade summoners prior to Shudderwock, you will have plenty of jades on the board, which will threaten the opponent. Personally for me, both of those cards are fine, as it doesn't hurt to gain extra value from Sludge Slurper, EVIL Cable Rat and Jade Spirit against Reno or Taunt Warrior. Sometimes I play Shudder, in order to refill my hand and protect my value from an annoying Dirty Rat. Oftentimes I copy/bounce Loatheb, in order to shut down the opponent's board clears.
But this is only regarding all matchups beside burn mage. I agree with you, as I've said it before, that jade quest shaman isn't good in a meta, where burn mage is running rampant.
Text on comments keeps Dissapearing after posting
I've pushed out an editor update that may resolve the issue.
Pretty strange we're only hearing about this one in particular now. If the issue does persist, can you confirm it also exists when you disable all your browser addons? Sometimes those can do evil against sites.
SoU Wild meta
Is Zola and Bog Slosher even desirable for that deck? I ran Zola before the quest came out to get more fuel but with the new hero power I have more than enough gas to overwhelm enemies, and Zola thus felt both redundant and terribly slow, and Slosher seems to make the Shudder boards worse, as it both fills my hand with Lackeys and then mills the bounced Jades.
SoU Wild meta
I knew it was bad, but this is just wow...
SoU Wild meta
I've been playing Jade Quest Shaman too, and have had a few matches I was able to keep Burn Mage under control, but for the most part don't stand a chance. It comes down to drawing either Antique Healbot or Eater of Secrets. If you can bounce the eater back to your hand with either Zola the Gorgon or Bog Slosher, it's GG. Otherwise, you don't stand a chance.
Aggro: Face Warrior
Hey Xarkkal,
Thanks for checking out my deck! I really like this deck, however, it might not be that great against Reno decks. The only reason I say this is because you don't control when your bombs go off and if you're unlucky your opponent might use Reno before he draws a lot of your bombs. It does produce an absurd of amount of damage though, so feel free to try it.
Another deck you can try is a hyper aggro mech hunter deck.
Fan Community Spotlight - Maxlot's Summoner Class
I really like the Invoke mechanic. I think Choose One-like effects are always really interesting for card games (in this case: play it earlier or later but with more impact). Cards that make you take a decision before playing them, thinking on the long-term game, are my favorites.
Aggro: Lakkari Warlock
Artic Fox,
I'm really glad you're enjoying this deck! I can't blame you for not wanting to craft Millhouse Manastorm. I think I only use him in 2 out of over 100 decks, so it's really not worth it. Keep tweaking it, I'm sure all my decks will require a bit of changing since I don't tailor them to the current meta, but instead try to create the best possible deck list for each archetype. Good luck with your ranked climb and have fun!