^ I've seen plenty of pro players hold Tracking on the mulligan and play it on turn one. Of course the difference between competitive play and ladder is that you typically know what your opponent is playing, often down to the exact decklist, so you can formulate a game-plan and anticipate what cards you are going to need several turns from now.
Still, I don't think holding tracking is a rookie mistake per se, I think the real distinction is in whether the player makes the correct decision when offered a tough choice or just picks the Zul'Jin ten times out of ten.
Thanks! the mulligan and turn 1 use of it will still be the hardest to correctly understand for me
I agree with almost everything in favor of tracking that has been said in this thread except for that "Lethal 100% of the time" comment which I think was an attempt at sarcasm. I laughed a little, anyway, because if you've ever faced a Hunter using tracking late game and you're down on health you've probably held your breath a little!
In my attempt to be helpful, I'll share how I use it in my Hunter decks and the reason why I might not include it. Not including it has nothing to with discarding cards. As a lot of people have mentioned, you're not really discarding them because you haven't received them in your hand yet. The concept behind using it wisely is this: You don't need all the cards in your deck to win the match. You need the right cards. Tracking helps you get the right card when you need it.
Here is a list of how, when, and why I play tracking. I hope it helps the OP out in the quest for the Golden Rexxar (keep in mind I don't play in Wild format):
Mulligan: I hardly ever keep Tracking unless I think I'll need it early on in the game. If I suspect I might need it early on in the game it's because I'm going first so I don't have an extra card with a coin and the situation makes me think I might want to keep a card that costs 4+ so I keep the 4-mana card and Tracking so I can fish for something to play on turn 3 or 5 if necessary. An example: I think my Mage opponent is going to have a Mountain Giant. A spell dealing 4 or more damage to a minion is a keeper because I probably don't need to put anything on the board on turns 1 or 2. For most situations, it's better to throw the Tracking back into the deck and draw something else because Tracking is a good late game card and not so good early in the game.
Against Bomb Warrior or any other opponent that shuffles cards into my deck: After my opponent has shuffled a lot of garbage into my deck I look for a chance to play Tracking. This allows me to eliminate the bombs or whatever other damaging cards that were shuffled in and I can draw a useful card.
Bomb or Mech Hunter: Tracking is very handy for fishing for Leeroy, Venomizer, or any other necessary card that can be used to wipe the board or finish off the opponent.
Midrange Hunter: A good late game card to use when you're in need of the card you know is in there but hasn't surfaced. The later into the game you play your Tracking, the better your chances will be of finding what you're looking for and disregarding what you don't need because your deck is lower on cards. It isn't really for card draw anymore because of Master's Call, which is far better for that need to draw cards. This is why a lot of Midrange decks only have one copy of Tracking these days (or none at all).
Secret Hunter: Tracking is not useful for this deck, usually, if you have Subject 9, so it isn't usually included in the deck.
A lot ofplayers that don't have a lot of experience with Hunter or with Hearthstone often use Tracking when they're going first and have only 1 mana available, thinking that this is a good way to use a turn that would otherwise be passed without playing anything. This is usually not the best way to use Tracking. Tracking is much more powerful, in most situations, later in the game.
I hope this helps a little and good luck in getting your golden hero! I'm working on getting Rogue and Warrior golden portraits at the moment.
Dude, without wanting to be disrespectful to all the others, your two comments were the most complete of those I read, THANKS! The points 2 and 3 are the ones I got to understand easily by myself and use instinctively. The rest, especially the explanation in 1, I'll have to train myself and the mindset used to play hunter. I've reached golden hero before posting this, was in fact one of the reasons behind it, having gold hunter and not understanding the mechanics behind one basic card so widely used. That said, the hero I got after it was rogue, much of it thanks to the tempo rogue glory days, but I think there is a chance now with the agrro rogue advertised by dekkster in here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj-ZAe5PAQs&t=418s
As for warrior, I would like to achieve it also, one of my favorite hero arts, but to achieve it nowadays, with the infamous 40min+ mirrors you are not certain to win..., it's going to be tough, good luck on that!
Although already a bit experienced in the game and with hunter, I never got why everyone puts this into decks. Discard 2 cards, really? If someone can explain me I would be very grateful.
it is wrong to think about it as discarding two cards. the truth is, you never had those cards. You are not discarding them, you are just not drawing them. it is one mana to choose one card out of three from your deck to draw. sure, you are removing two cards from your deck, but that it just making your deck more consistent. and in mid-range/aggro hunter, where the card is most commonly used, you don't really have any must-draw cards. everything is expendable. so not having drawn those two cards is not much of a downside because you are just drawing different cards instead.
I see that I have still much to learn about playing hunter. I get really attached to all the cards that I get in a deck when playing to win, and in this thread I've come to realize aggro hunter has a different mindset to obey. Thanks
Tracking fills the niche of card draw of a class defined by poor card draw (just counting the basic & classic set). Even though it is not particularly good for that purpose, it still sees use because there aren't a lot of really good alternatives that don't require specific conditions to be met (read: Quick Shot and Master's Call).
tl;dr: How you hunter is you topdeck like a GOD. Tracking is not the greatest tool, but it can help you get the resources you need, when you need them.
e: If it decides it likes the cut of your jib, that is :\
So, basically a "YOLO" card. Seems fair, one just must be aware of the consequences and play it when it feels needed. Thanks!
The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.
That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.
This is the best answer.
Tracking is low-key the best Hunter card in basic/classic, and most decks should always play 2x. The caveat being Zul'jin. A number of midrange hunter decks cut a copy of Tracking so Zul'jin won't deck them out in long games. Personally, I still play 2x Tracking in every deck with Zul'jin, and I just won't play both copies against Warrior. But Warrior (and sometimes Shaman) are the only times this tends to come up.
As an aside, why are we still calling Master's Call Hunter a "midrange" deck?
It really hurts having Zul'jin burning the rest of the deck... Then again, I understand that against warrior, if one is reaching the point of playing Zul'jin, the game is lost nonetheless :
It depends on the deck, but generally, I'd say yes. It is great, because it allows you to filter cards out of your deck, and find what you need based on the situation. Sure, sometimes you get hosed and you're forced to discard 2 good cards, but 90% of the time it's great.
E.g. I get to filter through my Unleash the Hounds in the warrior matchup, or maybe I can have a good chance of finding Leeroy Jenkins for lethal.
TLDR; It's generally a great card because of it's selection and ability to find you what you need based on the situation.
One of the situations I really find it usefull is against bomb warriors, with 3+ bombs in deck that I need to get rid of. Thanks!
The logic behind it goes something like this: unless the game goes to fatigue, you won't see every card in your deck. That being the case, would you rather draw the card you need Right Now, well, right now, or two turns later? Burning cards from the deck rarely matters more than finding the right answer, setting up a combo or curving out. One way to think about burnt cards is to pretend they were actually the bottom card of the deck.
That said, I'm probably not the best Tracking advocate, I've never quite been able to overcome the FeelsBadMan aspect of tracking over juicy cards, doubly so when you know you're going to cast Zul'jin and burn even more value. But you have to realise this is more of an emotional attachment than a logical response.
Has said above, it's that FeelsBadMan feeling I can't get over with, but after all the answers, I think I start to understand better the reasoning behind it
So... first off, I REALLY do not like playing Hunter. To me it's the worst class by far. With that in mind, I am trying to get my Golden Hunter class and I have learned to like Tracking because it allows you to root through the top 3 cards of your deck and grab the 1 that you need at that moment. I only do it when I am looking to get the situational kill card. For example, my opponent is down to 6 life, I have 7 mana... I'm digging for Leeroy Jenkins or Kill Command
True, this is the way I've been trying to use it, but I really hate when, for example, I have nothing to play except tracking and I get those two cards out of it, having to dispose one of them.
First, thanks to all of the inputs I got here, just realized today someone had answered (no notifications whatsoever) and was very surprised by all these constructive responses! That said, I'll try and answer all of the comments. Again,thank you all!
Quest shaman actually kinda sucks. Pretty sure the quest will get dropped soon and shaman will be all murlocs, or aggro token.
Bomb warriors disappeared. I thought with Highlander returning, warriors would still run bombs. But instead they're just running more broken crap to bring their boring board clearing control deck to the max.
Priest still sucks (not truly surprised, but figured there might be one deck that shined)
Not surprised by much else. Becoming pretty disappointed with how the meta is shaping up. Hopefully some new powerful decks emerge soon to start shaking things up.
This needs to be part of a template full of useful links for every fan created card competition on OoC. This is the kind of documentation I write in IT professionally. (Screenshots, treat the user as brand new.) Nice work!
I wish there were more options to customize the auto disenchant button. I don't DE any rare, epic, or legendary just in case there is a nerf. I only DE commons. I type "extra common" in the search function and DE anything that is extra. I sometimes DE gold versions first for extra dust if the gold version isn't in a deck already. If it is in a deck I don't DE it since I don't want to fix my decks.
What is the list you are running? Did you upload it to OoCards? Or can you share a link? I wouldn't mind giving it a go to see if it can be improved. I'm just sitting at Rank 10 trying a bunch of different things right now, so if it sucks it won't bother me rank-wise!
There you go. If you have thought I'm happy to hear them but the main issue as above was the OTK Combo need so much it's too slow to pull off either for win or loss.
But yeah this thread wasn't to whine about my bad deck, more to see if anyone else had something fun/good in mind before launch that turned out awful.
Honestly, with this expansion coming out I think my main thought was on the quests and which quests could be viable. I didn't think much about other decks outside of those or Highlander decks. I felt like Quest Priest was going to be really strong, but haven't seen many people playing it, and also don't have it to try it out myself.
I have seen a few lists for Boar OTK that use it as a way to try and survive, I guess? I was thinking after seeing this post that the best approach might be to try and stick Amet on board and make it a two turn kill so you can use Mass Dispel for taunts. But if your opponent has a brain and figures out what you're planning they'll likely just kill him immediately, or at least damage him. Perhaps with Amet and some Reborn taunts he can stick seeing as the Reborn minions would go to 7 health when they summon instead of 1. Then if Amet took damage use Circle before Dispel and Boar combo.
While I was waiting on your response I started playing around in Wild with Amet and Boars, but eventually swapped Boars for a Dragon package. I also added a Void Ripper since the deck is now more about winning the early and mid game, get some high health minions on board, then Dispel and stat swap for a nice, quick burst. Can still win the old fashioned way of Spirit x 2 > Inner Fire. Don't have a Confuse but I may craft one if the deck seems good without it, just to have an extra stat swap card, and one I can find with Shadow Visions
Thanks for the inspiration at least! If I play around with Boar OTK I'll let you know what I find.
It's no trash by any means, but I'm so far a little bit disappointed with Quest Druid. Yet community is experimenting, combining quest with tokens, OTK Malygos and other stuff, so some kind of Quest Druid will probably find decent spot in the meta.
I just wanted to see something done about the onslaught of token decks, mostly paladin. I lived through the MSoG tokens, and was glad to see them go from Standard... and here they are again.
What is the list you are running? Did you upload it to OoCards? Or can you share a link? I wouldn't mind giving it a go to see if it can be improved. I'm just sitting at Rank 10 trying a bunch of different things right now, so if it sucks it won't bother me rank-wise!
There you go. If you have thought I'm happy to hear them but the main issue as above was the OTK Combo need so much it's too slow to pull off either for win or loss.
But yeah this thread wasn't to whine about my bad deck, more to see if anyone else had something fun/good in mind before launch that turned out awful.
I usually keep a play set, combined normal and gold, and DE everything else. If I have 2 gold of something, I always DE the normal versions.
As for other cards, if a card is just unplayable I get rid of it. Or if it has been nerfed into worthlessness, Naga Sea Witch I'm looking at you, then I just rid my collection of it. But that is me. MY view is different though in that I am closing in on getting my last 2 golden heroes and once that happens, then I will just Gold craft everything for choice class.
I just copied Murmy instead of Micro Mummy b/c they are tough to distinguish under the reborn glow. Playing over lunch so I have a window at the minimum size option of 1024 x 768, which doesn't help. That's still bigger than mobile screens, for the most part, though.
What is the list you are running? Did you upload it to OoCards? Or can you share a link? I wouldn't mind giving it a go to see if it can be improved. I'm just sitting at Rank 10 trying a bunch of different things right now, so if it sucks it won't bother me rank-wise!
Since xpacs are developed in advance, it is safe to assume blizz knew how useful Twinspells would be in the highlander playstyle that they had planned for the hero classes.
Yeah. Blizzard, like any other serious company out there, works in a planned and very organized way. I really don't understand how some people might think otherwise, they are one of the most important video game companies out there for a reason... :/
Tracking - is it worth it?
Thanks! the mulligan and turn 1 use of it will still be the hardest to correctly understand for me
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Mehrshad#1300
Region: EU
Trade Only: Yes, you go first.
Tracking - is it worth it?
Dude, without wanting to be disrespectful to all the others, your two comments were the most complete of those I read, THANKS!
The points 2 and 3 are the ones I got to understand easily by myself and use instinctively. The rest, especially the explanation in 1, I'll have to train myself and the mindset used to play hunter.
I've reached golden hero before posting this, was in fact one of the reasons behind it, having gold hunter and not understanding the mechanics behind one basic card so widely used.
That said, the hero I got after it was rogue, much of it thanks to the tempo rogue glory days, but I think there is a chance now with the agrro rogue advertised by dekkster in here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj-ZAe5PAQs&t=418s
As for warrior, I would like to achieve it also, one of my favorite hero arts, but to achieve it nowadays, with the infamous 40min+ mirrors you are not certain to win..., it's going to be tough, good luck on that!
Tracking - is it worth it?
I see that I have still much to learn about playing hunter. I get really attached to all the cards that I get in a deck when playing to win, and in this thread I've come to realize aggro hunter has a different mindset to obey. Thanks
Tracking - is it worth it?
So, basically a "YOLO" card. Seems fair, one just must be aware of the consequences and play it when it feels needed. Thanks!
Tracking - is it worth it?
It really hurts having Zul'jin burning the rest of the deck... Then again, I understand that against warrior, if one is reaching the point of playing Zul'jin, the game is lost nonetheless :
Tracking - is it worth it?
One of the situations I really find it usefull is against bomb warriors, with 3+ bombs in deck that I need to get rid of. Thanks!
Tracking - is it worth it?
Has said above, it's that FeelsBadMan feeling I can't get over with, but after all the answers, I think I start to understand better the reasoning behind it
Tracking - is it worth it?
True, this is the way I've been trying to use it, but I really hate when, for example, I have nothing to play except tracking and I get those two cards out of it, having to dispose one of them.
Tracking - is it worth it?
First, thanks to all of the inputs I got here, just realized today someone had answered (no notifications whatsoever) and was very surprised by all these constructive responses!
That said, I'll try and answer all of the comments.
Again,thank you all!
Pleasant Surprises from Uldum
Quest shaman actually kinda sucks. Pretty sure the quest will get dropped soon and shaman will be all murlocs, or aggro token.
Bomb warriors disappeared. I thought with Highlander returning, warriors would still run bombs. But instead they're just running more broken crap to bring their boring board clearing control deck to the max.
Priest still sucks (not truly surprised, but figured there might be one deck that shined)
Not surprised by much else. Becoming pretty disappointed with how the meta is shaping up. Hopefully some new powerful decks emerge soon to start shaking things up.
Fan Creations Tutorial - How to Use HearthCards #1: The Basics
This needs to be part of a template full of useful links for every fan created card competition on OoC. This is the kind of documentation I write in IT professionally. (Screenshots, treat the user as brand new.) Nice work!
How do you handle 'mass disentchant'?
I wish there were more options to customize the auto disenchant button. I don't DE any rare, epic, or legendary just in case there is a nerf. I only DE commons. I type "extra common" in the search function and DE anything that is extra. I sometimes DE gold versions first for extra dust if the gold version isn't in a deck already. If it is in a deck I don't DE it since I don't want to fix my decks.
Surprisingly bad decks?
Honestly, with this expansion coming out I think my main thought was on the quests and which quests could be viable. I didn't think much about other decks outside of those or Highlander decks. I felt like Quest Priest was going to be really strong, but haven't seen many people playing it, and also don't have it to try it out myself.
I have seen a few lists for Boar OTK that use it as a way to try and survive, I guess? I was thinking after seeing this post that the best approach might be to try and stick Amet on board and make it a two turn kill so you can use Mass Dispel for taunts. But if your opponent has a brain and figures out what you're planning they'll likely just kill him immediately, or at least damage him. Perhaps with Amet and some Reborn taunts he can stick seeing as the Reborn minions would go to 7 health when they summon instead of 1. Then if Amet took damage use Circle before Dispel and Boar combo.
While I was waiting on your response I started playing around in Wild with Amet and Boars, but eventually swapped Boars for a Dragon package. I also added a Void Ripper since the deck is now more about winning the early and mid game, get some high health minions on board, then Dispel and stat swap for a nice, quick burst. Can still win the old fashioned way of Spirit x 2 > Inner Fire. Don't have a Confuse but I may craft one if the deck seems good without it, just to have an extra stat swap card, and one I can find with Shadow Visions
Thanks for the inspiration at least! If I play around with Boar OTK I'll let you know what I find.
How do you handle 'mass disentchant'?
option 1
i never bothered myself with saving cards for potential nerf
i always just click the mass disenchant button and always disencahnt my golden cards if i have normal versions
Surprisingly bad decks?
It's no trash by any means, but I'm so far a little bit disappointed with Quest Druid. Yet community is experimenting, combining quest with tokens, OTK Malygos and other stuff, so some kind of Quest Druid will probably find decent spot in the meta.
Pleasant Surprises from Uldum
I just wanted to see something done about the onslaught of token decks, mostly paladin. I lived through the MSoG tokens, and was glad to see them go from Standard... and here they are again.
Fan Creations Tutorial - How to Use HearthCards #1: The Basics
Awesome starter’s guide on what is honestly my favorite site! Keep up the good work!
Surprisingly bad decks?
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/6497-amet-boar-otk-priest
There you go. If you have thought I'm happy to hear them but the main issue as above was the OTK Combo need so much it's too slow to pull off either for win or loss.
But yeah this thread wasn't to whine about my bad deck, more to see if anyone else had something fun/good in mind before launch that turned out awful.
How do you handle 'mass disentchant'?
I usually keep a play set, combined normal and gold, and DE everything else. If I have 2 gold of something, I always DE the normal versions.
As for other cards, if a card is just unplayable I get rid of it. Or if it has been nerfed into worthlessness, Naga Sea Witch I'm looking at you, then I just rid my collection of it. But that is me. MY view is different though in that I am closing in on getting my last 2 golden heroes and once that happens, then I will just Gold craft everything for choice class.
Slight Dropdown issue on Safari
Glad it's not just me :-), however not a biggie IMO
[66% WR] SoU Aggro Hybrid SHAMAN
Glad to hear that!
Reborn and Frozen
I just copied Murmy instead of Micro Mummy b/c they are tough to distinguish under the reborn glow. Playing over lunch so I have a window at the minimum size option of 1024 x 768, which doesn't help. That's still bigger than mobile screens, for the most part, though.
Surprisingly bad decks?
What is the list you are running? Did you upload it to OoCards? Or can you share a link? I wouldn't mind giving it a go to see if it can be improved. I'm just sitting at Rank 10 trying a bunch of different things right now, so if it sucks it won't bother me rank-wise!
Twinspells and Highlander
Yeah. Blizzard, like any other serious company out there, works in a planned and very organized way. I really don't understand how some people might think otherwise, they are one of the most important video game companies out there for a reason... :/