I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it turns out after further deck refinement that galakrond shaman and quest-shaman work better as individual decks rather than a weird hybrid. Since the quest autocompletes rather than giving you a quest reward like the Un'goro quests, you can't hold your Heart of Vir'naal until after playing Galakrond, so you'd be sacrificing all that quest progression for a pair of 8/8s. Seems like a bad deal.
It's day 1 guys.
Yeah I totally get that it's Day 1 so this thread is definitely "I'm bored at work so let's spitball," but for me the genesis of this thread is that Shamanstone has been so oppressive for the last 2 months I was earnestly hoping the deck fell into a bottomless pit and the fact that it obviously still has a ton of strength makes me a sad panda.
I think they will wait to see how the meta shapes up. Yes shaman will be strong but if theres like 3 or 4 at the top i guess it evens out.
The mogu minion might be an issue but if things are stable they just might wait for shudder and life drinker to rotate. Honestly galakrond battlecry depends on the invoke cards and it rarely has a curve active. The problem is shuddeewock to play it again plus kronx that gets the devastation active and u can seriously highroll.
Shaman as a clas will be nerfed in some way, I'm just not sure it's gonna be the Quest.
Mogu Fleshshaper (which hasn't gotten any weaker) was on the watchlist
Galakrond's Battlecry might be nerfed to summon an increasing number of 4/4s (1,2,4) instead of scaling up two.
The Quest itself might be nerfed to increase the requirement given how easily it is completed. However, I'm not sure if that really changes anything (anyone remember Quest Rogue).
The rotation will do its part (without Shudderwock and LIfedrinker the deck won't nearly do as well in any given context), but overall the big tempo swings are just too much in relation to the already tempo focusseed gameplan.
It's curious to me that you both mention Mogu and Shudderwock since, in my (admittedly limited play against them), Shudderwock hasn't even come into play AT ALL. The game is over long before the opponent needs it. Ditto for playing Galakrond itself - all the games I've played against this, the opponent just uses the Invoke to spawn those little elementals, same with Kronx, and then goes nuts. The win condition for the deck isn't a big Shudderwock turn or monster turn 5 evolve as it was the last few months, it's more of a token + spell "grinds you down while constantly flooding the board for virtually free."
Mogu obviously still a problem but IMO just nerfing Mogu won't affect the power level of the overall quest and all the fun new powerups Galakrond and the Invokers give the deck.
I think they will wait to see how the meta shapes up. Yes shaman will be strong but if theres like 3 or 4 at the top i guess it evens out.
The mogu minion might be an issue but if things are stable they just might wait for shudder and life drinker to rotate. Honestly galakrond battlecry depends on the invoke cards and it rarely has a curve active. The problem is shuddeewock to play it again plus kronx that gets the devastation active and u can seriously highroll.
Yes! It's too soon, Majordomo!
People are still experimenting the new cards. In one or two weeks they will get tired and just try to counter that deck. If nobody finds a way through, then the nerfs will come. If this happens, my guess is that it will follow the same path as the Caverns Bellow; i.e. first they will increase the quest activation requirement (like 8 battlecry cards), then it won't suffice, then the Hero Power will change to just affect the first battlecry.
That's my guess
That's a good guess - a wave of sequentially ineffectual nerfs like Caverns Below.
Will preface by saying: this isn't a salt thread; I'm not a big ladder player and I don't actually see many Quest Shamans in Casual (thank the freaking lord). I'm genuinely asking for people's thoughts and opinions.
Okay so every knows it's been Evolve/Quest Shamanstone since the Halloween event, and now (from obviously just 1 day's data) it seems Quest Shaman is somehow even stronger with the ability to QUADRUPLE-Invoke with Corrupt Elementalist and to Summon 4 8/8s when actually playing Galakrond. And that's on top of everything else still in tact from the deck.
So: I (and I assume many others) are rightfully expecting a nerf. So many questions are:
1. Do YOU think a nerf is warranted/coming?
2. What will it look like?
For me, yes I think warranted and coming. Even hyper aggro decks struggle against this deck because it's a weird mix of both aggro, tempo, and token. I would be shocked if, after all Blizz heard/saw about Evolve taking over the game for the last two months, they'd let ANOTHER insane Shaman deck rule until rotation - which, as I'll point out, WON'T actually hurt the deck that much! What's rotating that the deck uses? Lifedrinker - that's about it.
As to what the nerf would look like: there I'm conflicted. My bet is - as much as Blizz hate to nerf Legendaries if they can avoid (thinking about when they changed the lifesteal card instead of Kingsbane itself - they have to hit the quest itself. Any one tiny piece won't be enough to stymie the deck at all. So what would that look like? They almost certainly won't change the cost since Hero Powers are fairly static at 2. The three most obvious/likely options would be:
a. Increase the requirement - instead of play 6 battlecries, maybe change it to 10. or 12. 8 won't make any difference to a deck with as many cheap battlecries/2 dedicated lackey generators. This is my guess and I think the most likely to happen - slow the reward down and the deck would get countered by hyper aggro at least.
b. Change the mechanic of the reward - your NEXT Battlecry is played twice instead of all the rest for the turn. I still think this will be OP because generally you only really NEED one doubled-up battlecry per turn to wreak havoc, but seems a fair guess.
c. Early rotation - like Genn and Baku they might just decide to rotate the quest early. I think this is the "nuclear option" and least likely, but if playtesting shows that no "good" nerf exists then it's certainly not an unprecedented move.
Yeah I totally get that it's Day 1 so this thread is definitely "I'm bored at work so let's spitball," but for me the genesis of this thread is that Shamanstone has been so oppressive for the last 2 months I was earnestly hoping the deck fell into a bottomless pit and the fact that it obviously still has a ton of strength makes me a sad panda.
It's curious to me that you both mention Mogu and Shudderwock since, in my (admittedly limited play against them), Shudderwock hasn't even come into play AT ALL. The game is over long before the opponent needs it. Ditto for playing Galakrond itself - all the games I've played against this, the opponent just uses the Invoke to spawn those little elementals, same with Kronx, and then goes nuts. The win condition for the deck isn't a big Shudderwock turn or monster turn 5 evolve as it was the last few months, it's more of a token + spell "grinds you down while constantly flooding the board for virtually free."
Mogu obviously still a problem but IMO just nerfing Mogu won't affect the power level of the overall quest and all the fun new powerups Galakrond and the Invokers give the deck.
That's a good guess - a wave of sequentially ineffectual nerfs like Caverns Below.
Will preface by saying: this isn't a salt thread; I'm not a big ladder player and I don't actually see many Quest Shamans in Casual (thank the freaking lord). I'm genuinely asking for people's thoughts and opinions.
Okay so every knows it's been Evolve/Quest Shamanstone since the Halloween event, and now (from obviously just 1 day's data) it seems Quest Shaman is somehow even stronger with the ability to QUADRUPLE-Invoke with Corrupt Elementalist and to Summon 4 8/8s when actually playing Galakrond. And that's on top of everything else still in tact from the deck.
So: I (and I assume many others) are rightfully expecting a nerf. So many questions are:
1. Do YOU think a nerf is warranted/coming?
2. What will it look like?
For me, yes I think warranted and coming. Even hyper aggro decks struggle against this deck because it's a weird mix of both aggro, tempo, and token. I would be shocked if, after all Blizz heard/saw about Evolve taking over the game for the last two months, they'd let ANOTHER insane Shaman deck rule until rotation - which, as I'll point out, WON'T actually hurt the deck that much! What's rotating that the deck uses? Lifedrinker - that's about it.
As to what the nerf would look like: there I'm conflicted. My bet is - as much as Blizz hate to nerf Legendaries if they can avoid (thinking about when they changed the lifesteal card instead of Kingsbane itself - they have to hit the quest itself. Any one tiny piece won't be enough to stymie the deck at all. So what would that look like? They almost certainly won't change the cost since Hero Powers are fairly static at 2. The three most obvious/likely options would be:
a. Increase the requirement - instead of play 6 battlecries, maybe change it to 10. or 12. 8 won't make any difference to a deck with as many cheap battlecries/2 dedicated lackey generators. This is my guess and I think the most likely to happen - slow the reward down and the deck would get countered by hyper aggro at least.
b. Change the mechanic of the reward - your NEXT Battlecry is played twice instead of all the rest for the turn. I still think this will be OP because generally you only really NEED one doubled-up battlecry per turn to wreak havoc, but seems a fair guess.
c. Early rotation - like Genn and Baku they might just decide to rotate the quest early. I think this is the "nuclear option" and least likely, but if playtesting shows that no "good" nerf exists then it's certainly not an unprecedented move.
So - what does everyone else think?