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Hearthstone | Posted by | 6 years, 9 months ago
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Tired of Mech Warriors

This may come off as a rant but I'm a little tired of Mech Warrior still being so proliferate as it is.  It's just not fun when they get Boom on curve and then proceed to just grind out the rest of the game with constant nearly infinite answers.  Nerfing Archivist to 9 mana didn't change much.  All it did was force warriors who get the coin to just hold onto it.

As for Dr Boom Mad Genius himself.  I honestly don't see how he wasn't hit with the recent nerfs a few weeks ago.  Not only that but it restricts design space and balance for the next 2 expansions this year for any neutral or warrior mechs releases, since they have to assume rush will be in play when that mech is used in warrior decks, thus lowering the power of any possible neutral mechs in the future.

My proposal is simple:  Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game.  An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.  The hero power can stay roughly the same as it was with ONE exception.

Since my suggestion would take away the passive of ALL mechs the warrior plays no longer having rush I would suggest that the hero power Micro Squad be given rush instead.  That way warriors can still magnetize onto them and have rush in a RNG fashion, which fits in with Dr Boom's theme of being "random and crazy".

Sorry if this comes off as a rant.  It probably is in retrospect.  I'm just tired of facing them game after game.  Sure I can win against them sometimes, but that doesn't negate the fact that the card as it stands is overly oppressive in the meta.  

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  • This may come off as a rant but I'm a little tired of Mech Warrior still being so proliferate as it is.  It's just not fun when they get Boom on curve and then proceed to just grind out the rest of the game with constant nearly infinite answers.  Nerfing Archivist to 9 mana didn't change much.  All it did was force warriors who get the coin to just hold onto it.

    As for Dr Boom Mad Genius himself.  I honestly don't see how he wasn't hit with the recent nerfs a few weeks ago.  Not only that but it restricts design space and balance for the next 2 expansions this year for any neutral or warrior mechs releases, since they have to assume rush will be in play when that mech is used in warrior decks, thus lowering the power of any possible neutral mechs in the future.

    My proposal is simple:  Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game.  An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.  The hero power can stay roughly the same as it was with ONE exception.

    Since my suggestion would take away the passive of ALL mechs the warrior plays no longer having rush I would suggest that the hero power Micro Squad be given rush instead.  That way warriors can still magnetize onto them and have rush in a RNG fashion, which fits in with Dr Boom's theme of being "random and crazy".

    Sorry if this comes off as a rant.  It probably is in retrospect.  I'm just tired of facing them game after game.  Sure I can win against them sometimes, but that doesn't negate the fact that the card as it stands is overly oppressive in the meta.  

  • Blizzard won’t nerf hero cards, they refused to do it with Bloodreaver Gul’dan and Frost Lich Jaina who were both much more oppressive. They have also stated they think boom is fair because he hero power is random which is a laughable excuse. Unfortunately he’s gonna be around for a while.

    • Quote From turn1manawrm

      Blizzard won’t nerf hero cards, they refused to do it with Bloodreaver Gul’dan and Frost Lich Jaina who were both much more oppressive. They have also stated they think boom is fair because he hero power is random which is a laughable excuse. Unfortunately he’s gonna be around for a while.

      They didn't nerf those heroes because Knights of the Frozen throne released equally oppressive heroes for each class.  It's kind of the age old adage "if everything is broken, then nothing is really different"

      Now that those have rotated, we are left with 3 hero cards: Dr Boom, Hagatha, and Zuljin.  (not really counting Jarraxus since I don't recall him being played in the meta that much recently)

      The idea of hero cards should be to create interesting new dynamics with cards in the meta.  

      Zuljin doesn't really do anything except create a single super-power turn.  The hero power doesn't really change much in terms of the overall goal of Hunters.  

      Hagatha, while she can create more value: only generates spells and can often give useless spells or flood your hand with spells that are far too conditional (i.e. Totemic Might, Storm Bringer, Eureka, etc)

      Dr Boom, unfortunately despite the RNG of his rotating hero power, is not broken because of his hero power: he's broken because in addition to getting what most people would stricly say is a better hero power he gains an ADDITIONAL passive of rush for all mechs the rest of the game. 

      I'm bolding that because it's unusual that people are focusing so much on hero power or battlecries in this thread.  

      So I'll repeat my original statement in a much more succinct form now:

      Dr Boom, Mad Genius doesn't need passive Rush.  It pushes the card from thematic, fun, and strong, to overtuned.

  • If a round of nerfs hit Warrior and take it down a notch or two, you can bet that Aggro Shaman will run roughshod over the meta. Would you like that? 

    Warrior isn't fun to play against right now, but the class functions as a necessary evil to maintain balance in the meta. Though it's boring to play against, it's not oppressive by all means--it has miserable matchups against Bomb Hunters, Mech Paladins, and Conjurer Mages with their waves of big threats. Murloc Shamans can beat it too. 

    • Quote From Tetsuo

      If a round of nerfs hit Warrior and take it down a notch or two, you can bet that Aggro Shaman will run roughshod over the meta. Would you like that? 

      Warrior isn't fun to play against right now, but the class functions as a necessary evil to maintain balance in the meta. Though it's boring to play against, it's not oppressive by all means--it has miserable matchups against Bomb Hunters, Mech Paladins, and Conjurer Mages with their waves of big threats. Murloc Shamans can beat it too. 

      I don't believe that's necessarily true.

      Warrior has PLENTY of tools even if you took away Dr Boom Mad Genius entirely. (which I'm not suggesting, and again: the "nerf" I prorposed in my post up top shifts the passive rush of the card onto one of the random hero powers;  Warriors would still have rush in a limited capacity, but it would be in a more balanced environment other than "all mechs you play the rest of the game have rush". )

      Some of the tools they have to combat "aggro" decks (without Dr Boom) currently in most Mech Warrior decks.

      • Warpath (x2)
      • Shield Slam (x2)
      • Execute (x2)
      • Weapons Project (at least one)
      • Omega Devastator (x2)
      • Brawl (x2)
      • Dyn-o-Matic (x2)
      • Zilliax

      I'm not even going to include cards like Eternium Rover (stall anti aggro card) or Milita Commander because those are sometimes not run in versions of those decks.

      The point being.  Warrior has ALL of those tools to delay the game until they play Dr Boom.  All of those tools are dynamic on being used for early game control or even late game control.  Some of them can generate insane value (like Warpath) or have really good tempo (like Dyn-o-Matic).  

      Overall the problem I'm seeing with Warrior as it stands is that ALL OF THIS coupled with Dr Boom coupled with the fact that all mechs get rush after Boom is played, creates an extremely oppressive deck that leaves very little room for counterplay.  (Read: Counterplay does exist, but it's extremely niche and involves praying that your opponent doesn't have the 2nd copy of Brawl or Warpath in their hand while you push for lethal)


      As for your comment regarding aggro shaman running over the meta,  you don't counter aggro with control decks.  You counter aggro decks with midrange decks or faster/better aggro decks.  And the decks that are ACTUALLY keeping murloc (aggro) shaman in check are midrange mech hunter decks, zoolock, and token druid.

       

  • I agree, warriors are too dominant and especially annoying to play against.

  • My proposal is simple: Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game. An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.

    And how would the new battlecry look like? (:D) It would have been nice to add a solution for the proposed change. Btw I have seen other people discussing this topic before and they suggested, that the first mech *you PLAY each turn* should get rush. I would like to hear out your idea for the new or alternative battlecry for the warrior hero card.

    • Quote From Kovachut

      My proposal is simple: Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game. An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.

      And how would the new battlecry look like? (:D) It would have been nice to add a solution for the proposed change. Btw I have seen other people discussing this topic before and they suggested, that the first mech *you PLAY each turn* should get rush. I would like to hear out your idea for the new or alternative battlecry for the warrior hero card.

      I suggest you go back and re-read my original post.  There's a proposed change in there already.  This lets me know that you didn't actually read the entire post.  You skimmed over it, made your snap-reaction comment (with some snarkiness added in to boot) and clicked "leave comment".  

      This is 100% me being legit.  When you are replying to people, whether it's a job posting somewhere, on a forum post, reddit, in a text message, whatever: take the time FULLY read things please.

      • Quote From Sykomyke
        Quote From Kovachut

        My proposal is simple: Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game. An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.

        And how would the new battlecry look like? (:D) It would have been nice to add a solution for the proposed change. Btw I have seen other people discussing this topic before and they suggested, that the first mech *you PLAY each turn* should get rush. I would like to hear out your idea for the new or alternative battlecry for the warrior hero card.

        I suggest you go back and re-read my original post.  There's a proposed change in there already.  This lets me know that you didn't actually read the entire post.  You skimmed over it, made your snap-reaction comment (with some snarkiness added in to boot) and clicked "leave comment".  

        This is 100% me being legit.  When you are replying to people, whether it's a job posting somewhere, on a forum post, reddit, in a text message, whatever: take the time FULLY read things please.

        Why are you so offensive? FYI I initially read your post thrice and now I read it once again. I didn't find any information regarding the battlecry, but only the hero power:

        My proposal is simple:  Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game.  An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.  The hero power can stay roughly the same as it was with ONE exception.

        Since my suggestion would take away the passive of ALL mechs the warrior plays no longer having rush I would suggest that the hero power Micro Squad be given rush instead.  That way warriors can still magnetize onto them and have rush in a RNG fashion, which fits in with Dr Boom's theme of being "random and crazy".

        You just want to take away the passive. Fine, but that's why I wanted to hear out your idea for a new battlecry.

        • Quote From Kovachut
          Quote From Sykomyke
          Quote From Kovachut

          My proposal is simple: Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game. An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.

          And how would the new battlecry look like? (:D) It would have been nice to add a solution for the proposed change. Btw I have seen other people discussing this topic before and they suggested, that the first mech *you PLAY each turn* should get rush. I would like to hear out your idea for the new or alternative battlecry for the warrior hero card.

          I suggest you go back and re-read my original post.  There's a proposed change in there already.  This lets me know that you didn't actually read the entire post.  You skimmed over it, made your snap-reaction comment (with some snarkiness added in to boot) and clicked "leave comment".  

          This is 100% me being legit.  When you are replying to people, whether it's a job posting somewhere, on a forum post, reddit, in a text message, whatever: take the time FULLY read things please.

          Why are you so offensive? FYI I initially read your post thrice and now I read it once again. I didn't find any information regarding the battlecry, but only the hero power:

          My proposal is simple:  Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game.  An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.  The hero power can stay roughly the same as it was with ONE exception.

          Since my suggestion would take away the passive of ALL mechs the warrior plays no longer having rush I would suggest that the hero power Micro Squad be given rush instead.  That way warriors can still magnetize onto them and have rush in a RNG fashion, which fits in with Dr Boom's theme of being "random and crazy".

          You just want to take away the passive. Fine, but what would be the new battlecry?

          Why does there have to be a new battlecry?  The battlecry is you are gaining a BETTER hero power (and 7 armor).  Just because the hero power swaps every turn doesn't make it worse.   Also, offensive?  Just because I called you out on not fully reading my post doesn't mean you have to get all indignant.

          Secondly.  The reason I didn't add a new battlecry is because the current one (in my proposal) got shifted TO one of the hero powers

          If you take offense to that, oh well.  I can't control how you get so easily offended over someone calling you out on your poor reading comprehension skills.

      • Quote From Sykomyke
        Quote From Kovachut

        My proposal is simple: Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game. An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.

        And how would the new battlecry look like? (:D) It would have been nice to add a solution for the proposed change. Btw I have seen other people discussing this topic before and they suggested, that the first mech *you PLAY each turn* should get rush. I would like to hear out your idea for the new or alternative battlecry for the warrior hero card.

        I suggest you go back and re-read my original post.  There's a proposed change in there already.  This lets me know that you didn't actually read the entire post.  You skimmed over it, made your snap-reaction comment (with some snarkiness added in to boot) and clicked "leave comment".  

        This is 100% me being legit.  When you are replying to people, whether it's a job posting somewhere, on a forum post, reddit, in a text message, whatever: take the time FULLY read things please.

        He's talking specifically about the battlecry effect, which you are removing. This would make Boom the one hero card not to have a battlecry. Maybe take your own advice and read what others post before jumping down their throats.

        • Quote From AliRadicali
          Quote From Sykomyke
          Quote From Kovachut

          My proposal is simple: Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game. An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.

          And how would the new battlecry look like? (:D) It would have been nice to add a solution for the proposed change. Btw I have seen other people discussing this topic before and they suggested, that the first mech *you PLAY each turn* should get rush. I would like to hear out your idea for the new or alternative battlecry for the warrior hero card.

          I suggest you go back and re-read my original post.  There's a proposed change in there already.  This lets me know that you didn't actually read the entire post.  You skimmed over it, made your snap-reaction comment (with some snarkiness added in to boot) and clicked "leave comment".  

          This is 100% me being legit.  When you are replying to people, whether it's a job posting somewhere, on a forum post, reddit, in a text message, whatever: take the time FULLY read things please.

          He's talking specifically about the battlecry effect, which you are removing. This would make Boom the one hero card not to have a battlecry. Maybe take your own advice and read what others post before jumping down their throats.

          Are you going to contribute to the conversation or just be a vitriolic "justice" poster?  What you are referring to is called "Appeal to Tradition" that "if X has always done this then it has to continue to be so".  Which it doesn't.  Again,  I was just posting a suggestion on how they could balance this. 

          If you don't like it that's fine, but others could contribute more of their opinions on balancing as well, as opposed to just dedicating their time to shoot down my opinions.

          Clearly I got all the Mech Warriors in this thread "Paper is fine, nerf rock" - Love Scissors.

          • Quote From Sykomyke
            Quote From AliRadicali
            Quote From Sykomyke
            Quote From Kovachut

            My proposal is simple: Warriors are a control class, but they don't need a passive RUSH mechanic given to every mech they play the rest of the game. An easy, simple, elegant solution is to take away the passive of Dr Boom (No more rush) which forces warriors to play more proactively.

            And how would the new battlecry look like? (:D) It would have been nice to add a solution for the proposed change. Btw I have seen other people discussing this topic before and they suggested, that the first mech *you PLAY each turn* should get rush. I would like to hear out your idea for the new or alternative battlecry for the warrior hero card.

            I suggest you go back and re-read my original post.  There's a proposed change in there already.  This lets me know that you didn't actually read the entire post.  You skimmed over it, made your snap-reaction comment (with some snarkiness added in to boot) and clicked "leave comment".  

            This is 100% me being legit.  When you are replying to people, whether it's a job posting somewhere, on a forum post, reddit, in a text message, whatever: take the time FULLY read things please.

            He's talking specifically about the battlecry effect, which you are removing. This would make Boom the one hero card not to have a battlecry. Maybe take your own advice and read what others post before jumping down their throats.

            Are you going to contribute to the conversation or just be a vitriolic "justice" poster?  What you are referring to is called "Appeal to Tradition" that "if X has always done this then it has to continue to be so".  Which it doesn't.  Again,  I was just posting a suggestion on how they could balance this. 

            If you don't like it that's fine, but others could contribute more of their opinions on balancing as well, as opposed to just dedicating their time to shoot down my opinions.

            Clearly I got all the Mech Warriors in this thread "Paper is fine, nerf rock" - Love Scissors.

            I'm not saying you can't make the argument that Boom's battlecry is not really a battlecry, nor that there couldn't conceivably be a hero card without one, but you actually have to make that case, which your OP does not do. Instead, at the mere mention that you didn't address the battlecry issue, you get indignant and start furiously projecting and making personal attacks.

             

            And FYI, I strongly dislike Warrior ATM.

            • Looks like things got a bit de-railed here. I don't believe there's any reason this discussion had to escalate as it did, and i think both sides unintentionally instigated the other a bit. Let's try to keep discussions civil and respectful rather than taking jabs at each other due to something minor that may have annoyed you. Everyone has their right to form their own opinions and express them, but there's no need for insults or passive belittling of any sort. I think we're better than that! 

              The subject of this thread definitely has some merit for discussion, however i will lock this particular thread rather than dismantle it. You are more than welcome to discuss your ideas further in a new thread, however we do ask that we maintain a reasonable level of civility in responses from everyone and keep the stones on the ground.

              Thanks =D

  • Warrior is super annoying. Sadly they won’t nerf Dr Boom though. A nerf to brawl where the highest cost or highest attack or something minion always wins rather than RNG.

    TBH I dislike bomb warrior more than control. But warrior in general is dumb

  • You nerf warrior and something else will simply become the proliferate match-up you face most often. Should we then continually nerf whatever is at the top and overplayed in the hopes that for some reason people will stop playing optimized decks?