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Hearthstone | Posted by | 5 years, 5 months ago
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Blizzard LIED and it's NOT FINE

People on Reddit did the calcs.. the rewards are not the same,

Everything that is wrong:

-The exp per game played is pathetic

- The rewards are less than they used to be

-Pack rewards are terrible (Specially year of the dragon packs.. at level 45...)

-The tavern pass is not part of the preorder

-Blizzard makes content creators to shut up about it or ELSE (this is the worst part tbh..)

I will let zeddy talk:

I am hovering over that uninstall button.. not china.. not other controversies done it. not the fact that I was barely playing anymore anyway.. this.. is just the last straw I was expecting this system hoped it would be awesome and all.. but nope it's a big slap in the face!

My go to card game is gonna be LoR from now on, was for a while anyway, see you there.

Edit: uninstalled the game.

 

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  • People on Reddit did the calcs.. the rewards are not the same,

    Everything that is wrong:

    -The exp per game played is pathetic

    - The rewards are less than they used to be

    -Pack rewards are terrible (Specially year of the dragon packs.. at level 45...)

    -The tavern pass is not part of the preorder

    -Blizzard makes content creators to shut up about it or ELSE (this is the worst part tbh..)

    I will let zeddy talk:

    I am hovering over that uninstall button.. not china.. not other controversies done it. not the fact that I was barely playing anymore anyway.. this.. is just the last straw I was expecting this system hoped it would be awesome and all.. but nope it's a big slap in the face!

    My go to card game is gonna be LoR from now on, was for a while anyway, see you there.

    Edit: uninstalled the game.

     

  • Its still too soon to see if they would double down on this. I'm fairly certainly they will eventually tweak the rewards, maybe before the release of Darkmoon, or somewhere around 2 weeks to a month.

    Its obvious right now that nearly every player is hating it and if they don't resolve this shit then its likely that all future events would be drown out by this particular period of history.

    Not that I subscribe to the conspiracy theory of where corporate pushes unacceptable bs now and then later hailed as heroes for fixing the mess they started in the first place, but if they do fix this system, that would be a good start to reset relations.

    Friendly
    • Quote From dapperdog

      Its still too soon to see if they would double down on this. I'm fairly certainly they will eventually tweak the rewards, maybe before the release of Darkmoon, or somewhere around 2 weeks to a month.

      I highly doubt that Blizzard would try to change the new system that they just released. The earliest time they would probably change the system is probably the next expansion after Darkmoon Faire, and I think that by itself is already an optimistic prediction. They took a while to implement the tavern pass system in the first place and if they are probably going to change it drastically, it's probably going to take a lot of effort and that's something they probably don't have anymore.

      • Quote From FenrirWulf
        Quote From dapperdog

        Its still too soon to see if they would double down on this. I'm fairly certainly they will eventually tweak the rewards, maybe before the release of Darkmoon, or somewhere around 2 weeks to a month.

        I highly doubt that Blizzard would try to change the new system that they just released. The earliest time they would probably change the system is probably the next expansion after Darkmoon Faire, and I think that by itself is already an optimistic prediction. They took a while to implement the tavern pass system in the first place and if they are probably going to change it drastically, it's probably going to take a lot of effort and that's something they probably don't have anymore.

        Probably not. Its all speculation obviously, but one good thing from this entire bs of a system is that its easily tweaked, from simply granting more xp on games to increasing the gold gained, maybe from 100 to 150.

        Given all the fire and brimstone hanging around, if they still hope to sell even a small bundle out without causing a major backlash, then a quick fix would seem the sensible solution.

        Friendly
        • Quote From dapperdog
          Quote From FenrirWulf
          Quote From dapperdog

          Its still too soon to see if they would double down on this. I'm fairly certainly they will eventually tweak the rewards, maybe before the release of Darkmoon, or somewhere around 2 weeks to a month.

          I highly doubt that Blizzard would try to change the new system that they just released. The earliest time they would probably change the system is probably the next expansion after Darkmoon Faire, and I think that by itself is already an optimistic prediction. They took a while to implement the tavern pass system in the first place and if they are probably going to change it drastically, it's probably going to take a lot of effort and that's something they probably don't have anymore.

          Probably not. Its all speculation obviously, but one good thing from this entire bs of a system is that its easily tweaked, from simply granting more xp on games to increasing the gold gained, maybe from 100 to 150.

          Given all the fire and brimstone hanging around, if they still hope to sell even a small bundle out without causing a major backlash, then a quick fix would seem the sensible solution.

          They know the whales don't care. They know the content creators with large followings won't speak out about it, they know reddit will forgot about it in a week just like before, they know nothing will happen. So why should they change anything.

           

          Content creators are coming out making fun of people for trying to get them to spread awareness for this. Even leaving in the bit where someone mentions why they won't bring up these issues because they'll lose sponsorship from blizzard.

          https://twitter.com/DaneHearth/status/1328009093496365058

  • Honestly we should really begin asking ourselves how the Hearthstone monitisation is even ethical anymore. Blizzard expects us to drop 80$, more than any AAA-game on release date, three times a year - and you get like 30% of the expansion, not even all of it!

    I shiver when I think how much money they got from me over the years.

  • Just like every other blizzard Activision controversy they will just sweep it under the rug and people will still play. Reddit will soy for the game after a couple weeks and forget all about this when trolden or some other reactionary posts a video about yogg or some dumb shit. I foresaw this coming when this system was announced. Itll be shit, people will complain, actiblizz wont do shit about it. People will forget and move on. Just like them changing the card art for china. Just like them banning casters for no reason just like everything.and I pity you if you thought this wouldn't happen. An orangutan can notice patterns better than this.

  • Probably the second worse Battle Pass I've seen behind The Avengers Battle Passess. This system as it stands completly kills F2P and has now become P2W. It incentivises you to buy both preorders just to make sure you have enough cards to compete in the meta and have fun decksperimenting. Probably by the time you complete it and start earning and saving gold as you level up (You know, the thing that people want to do before the next expansion), the new expanison will be just around the corner. And let's not forget the mini-expanison in-between that. This is probably f**king Activision getting their greedy hands on Blizzard's games and monitizing the s**t out of them just to increase profits. Well you are going to turn alot of heads for both Veterans and new players if things stay the way they are. 

     

    As AngryJoe would say: 

  • Also not to mention... by adding 35 card miniexpansions (which is great) they increase the cardpool by 30%, so you should be able to earn 30% more resources just to keep up. But no, you will earn less.

  • I really hoped against all hope that Blizzard would not fuck this up, and it really ruined my mood for this whole expansion. 

    We as paying customers deserve at least some level of decency, especially since Blizzard seems content to just continue milking us without actually doing anything. Its a whole one step forward, three steps back.We need to keep Blizzard to at least some fucking standards, even after the Blizzard employee comes out and gives every synonym on the book for “sorry, we’ll try harder in the future”.

  • Yes, this changes pretty much suck. Now just to wait and see if they make some changes.

    If something, they really can’t make a system that gives too many things at first or they will need to tune it down eventually and they “will be taking away things" from the players and everyone will really get pissed. So, I think they are at first introducing something that they can tune up and “give us extra things” and people will be happy instead.

    I hope it is something like that.

  • Mother of god... I am happy I am done with this game. Hearing about this new reward system and reading about people feeling scammed after pack openings (pack system is really a terrible system) makes me feel so happy about playing LoR. I put a few bucks in the game to start with to get my collection going and now I am self-sufficient and can craft the remaning cards and the upcoming the expansion if I wanted to - and keep in mind that I am not a hardcore grinder.

    What a cash grab Hearthstone has become. 2x pre-orders (140 EUR) AND a battlepas (20 EUR) AND you will probably still miss 50 % of the expansion? My fucking god. 

  • My prediction: Blizzard is testing how far they can go, that is pretty obvious. Due to the backlash they will backtrack and improve the system (not to the previous level though), then issue a statement how sorry they are and how much they listen to player feedback (bla bla bla) and that they therefore have decided to improve the system. The improvement however will not be enough to reach the previous level. And then discussions will die down until the next time.

    I am pretty pissed off right now, especially as I bought the pass on launch day (believed them that everything will be fine). Not ready to quit HS yet but I have decided to go full F2P for the foreseeable future. No longer paying money for this game is the only language they understand.

    P.S. Also the timing of the release and lack of information before borders on insolence. They clearly timed this to not hurt the DF pre-sales, which tells us that they were fully aware of the fact that players will be worse off. I would go so far to say that some statements they made were on the border of intentional lies.

     

  • Solem followed in Zeddy's footsteps, he posted a rant against the new system (and everything wrong with HS, basically) in his channel. I hope other major streamers follow suit, though that's unlikely. 

    I still enjoy this game, but I have to admit that it's not worth spending money on anymore. I've been suckered into buying the pre-order bundles every single time since Witchwood just so I could play some competitive decks, but in the back of my mind I've always known how foolish it was to spend so much on something that won't even guarantee you getting all the cards in the expansion, or at the very least the legendaries or cards you want. But I bought them anyway because the F2P way is such a grind, it was just easier to give Blizzard my hard-earned money just so I could keep enjoying this game I love. 

    Like the other posters in this thread, I'm going to be F2P from now on. My collection's pretty good now and I've hoarded lots of dust, so it might not be too bad. I just feel bad for all the F2P and casual players that this new system is spitting on; the XP gain is so low, it doesn't matter how much rewards they could get since they'll need to grind 12+ hours just to level up. It's insane. 

    Even if the devs fix this issue with the Battle Pass, there's still the issue of how expensive the game has become. That reminds me, they'll be releasing another mini-expansion so w'll be forced to pony up again. Unless this game becomes cheaper, I won't be spending money on it anymore. 

  • I've seen a few videos now from several HS creators and I'm inclined to agree with them. 

     

    I generally play most days, and whilst not being exclusively FTP (buying the bundle per expansion) there is a definitive difference in terms of rewards for play. 

    I half expect Blizzard to respond through re-instating the 10g per 3 wins, that way they keep their brand new system and satisfy the demand for change. 

    However, this is blizzard so you never know. 

  • I'm going to say something unpopular.

    I don't think Hearthstone is too expensive.

    Card games by nature are expensive and if anything, Blizzard has helped move it in the other direction. Prior to the Year of the Phoenix starting, we received a huge update that gave us duplicate protection for all rarities.

    Now, I know this doesn't help with the legendary problem, where players want more legendary cards than they get because they are arguably the most important cards in the game, but at a baseline, Hearthstone did get cheaper to play.

    But, back the battle pass. The math is definitely not working for a chunk of the players as it stands right now which has been disappointing. My biggest issue though with the whole problem is that we don't have the full picture yet. Yes, Blizzard fucked up and should have provided us with the full picture and it would have been great if they were to actually provide us with a preview of this before it went live. Of course, they did not because they can't write a blog post to save their own lives, but when they do, they do so to bump some unfortunate soul's card reveal.

    Blizzard needs to announce either an immediate boost to the base level of experience or they need to tell us what we can expect from legendary quests. Are we going to have quests appear that give us 20k experience? If so, completing a handful of those is going to net you some huge swings in progression as we get deeper into the pass and it would be in line with receiving a few packs from a legendary quest.

    And yeah, honestly, the premium pass should have been included in the mega bundle. In fact, a big change that I'd like to see, and I was even considering doing an article for it because I think it makes for an excellent discussion point, is I'd love to see them move the cosmetic Hero that comes with the mega bundle into the premium rewards track.

    We now know that they are willing to bring expansion pre-order bonuses back to the shop and they have mentioned wanting to do this with heroes. I have my doubts that the most important item to boost pre-orders is the addition of a cosmetic hero so if they just dumped that into the pass, it provides two ways of obtaining it. The more expensive way, buying a ton of packs and getting the pass alongside it, and the cheaper way of just buying the pass.

    They definitely have some work to do with their communication. It really hurts to see because I've always heard we're improving, things are going to be better, we're excited to interact more. Then it falls flat multiple times during a year. Blizzard doesn't really seem to value their community team as much anymore and instead focus their efforts on streamers. I get it, they have huge, live audiences with a measurable impact which is perfect for the execs that just love to talk those live numbers.

    I'm sure many of you remember when we'd get bundles of packs to giveaway (as did other community sites) or cards to reveal and now that isn't a thing anymore for the non-streamers. It isn't that big of a deal since the traffic for a dedicated card reveal doesn't really matter much (it just ends up as an image across twitter, fb, reddit so you get no clicks) but it was one hell of a nice gesture. Sure, I loved the Scholomance Robe and Shoes that they gave me, and the stuff that came in the Warglaive box (that was super awesome), but that isn't something we get to share as a community. The card dump is wasted potential after the final stream is over - not everyone needs to get exciting cards, had them out in batches of 3 or 4 and let people create some cool content around them.

    Ultimately, yes, they have a lot to work through with the new rewards track. I think it's a good start though and we're going in the right direction with it provided they open up and give us the full picture so we can continue to do the math on it.

    Ramble out.

    • Quote From Fluxflashor

      [Good point]

      There's a point where it's not a coincidence anymore and we've reached that i believe. There was a reason it took them so long to show EXACTLY how much experience we would be getting and how that equates to rewards. And i don't think it's fair comparing hearthstone to other card games in model because there is no resell value. When blizzard decides the game is over it's over. You get nothing. You lose. Good day sir. And unlike "WoW expansions played as they were then" there won't be a huge community backlash that blizzard will ignore for years before suing the pants off community members that recreated their game before they bring it back, they won't bring it back at all. Even artifact had a resell system. Where you got rewards in game that lead to the ability to get in game currency to buy packs and sell cards on the steam market. Wish hearthstone you get the dust system. Unpack a legendary for a class you don't like playing or will never see play? Guess what you can dust it for 1/4th of what it was originally worth. Tough luck buddy get 3 more lorewalker chos and you'll get something good. In yugioh or MTG or even pokemon cards you can buy a pack from a store for cheap and have the chance of selling what's inside for more based on the card's competitive value(anyone who's watched any maxmoefoe video will tell you that) but in hearthstone you get nothing, it's a closed loop system. And the returns are diminishing based on how much you put into it. In hearthstone you keep cards not because you want to use them but because you hope they get nerfed so blizzard finally gives you an excuse to get a good dust conversion for them. And lately they've even been finding ways to weasel out of that.

    • Quote From Fluxflashor
      Card games by nature are expensive

      I don't think this is a fair point. You might make the argument that physical card games need to a bit expensive to offset the cost of printing, packaging and shipping the packs, but especially for digital card games this is not the case. There is nothing inherent in the nature of card games that forces them to be expensive, quite the contrary actually when you consider the development costs of a digital card game compared to a AAA game like GTA or RDR. Pretty much all card games are expensive, yes, but that's more of a consequence from MTG showing that people are willing to shell out that much money for them than something inherent to the genre. They could sell the complete expansion every 4 months for €50 and it would not change the nature of the gameplay, only the collection aspect by making it less predatory. I think saying that card games are expensive by nature is a dangerous thing to say, because it convinces people that it's normal to have to pay €600 a year to fully play the game, while this would be rightfully considered ridiculous in any other genre. I love card games, but the cost is absurd to a degree it does not need to be.

    • Quote From Fluxflashor

      I'm going to say something unpopular.

      I don't think Hearthstone is too expensive.

      Card games by nature are expensive and if anything, Blizzard has helped move it in the other direction. Prior to the Year of the Phoenix starting, we received a huge update that gave us duplicate protection for all rarities.

      Now, I know this doesn't help with the legendary problem, where players want more legendary cards than they get because they are arguably the most important cards in the game, but at a baseline, Hearthstone did get cheaper to play.

      But, back the battle pass. The math is definitely not working for a chunk of the players as it stands right now which has been disappointing. My biggest issue though with the whole problem is that we don't have the full picture yet. Yes, Blizzard fucked up and should have provided us with the full picture and it would have been great if they were to actually provide us with a preview of this before it went live. Of course, they did not because they can't write a blog post to save their own lives, but when they do, they do so to bump some unfortunate soul's card reveal.

      Blizzard needs to announce either an immediate boost to the base level of experience or they need to tell us what we can expect from legendary quests. Are we going to have quests appear that give us 20k experience? If so, completing a handful of those is going to net you some huge swings in progression as we get deeper into the pass and it would be in line with receiving a few packs from a legendary quest.

      And yeah, honestly, the premium pass should have been included in the mega bundle. In fact, a big change that I'd like to see, and I was even considering doing an article for it because I think it makes for an excellent discussion point, is I'd love to see them move the cosmetic Hero that comes with the mega bundle into the premium rewards track.

      We now know that they are willing to bring expansion pre-order bonuses back to the shop and they have mentioned wanting to do this with heroes. I have my doubts that the most important item to boost pre-orders is the addition of a cosmetic hero so if they just dumped that into the pass, it provides two ways of obtaining it. The more expensive way, buying a ton of packs and getting the pass alongside it, and the cheaper way of just buying the pass.

      They definitely have some work to do with their communication. It really hurts to see because I've always heard we're improving, things are going to be better, we're excited to interact more. Then it falls flat multiple times during a year. Blizzard doesn't really seem to value their community team as much anymore and instead focus their efforts on streamers. I get it, they have huge, live audiences with a measurable impact which is perfect for the execs that just love to talk those live numbers.

      I'm sure many of you remember when we'd get bundles of packs to giveaway (as did other community sites) or cards to reveal and now that isn't a thing anymore for the non-streamers. It isn't that big of a deal since the traffic for a dedicated card reveal doesn't really matter much (it just ends up as an image across twitter, fb, reddit so you get no clicks) but it was one hell of a nice gesture. Sure, I loved the Scholomance Robe and Shoes that they gave me, and the stuff that came in the Warglaive box (that was super awesome), but that isn't something we get to share as a community. The card dump is wasted potential after the final stream is over - not everyone needs to get exciting cards, had them out in batches of 3 or 4 and let people create some cool content around them.

      Ultimately, yes, they have a lot to work through with the new rewards track. I think it's a good start though and we're going in the right direction with it provided they open up and give us the full picture so we can continue to do the math on it.

      Ramble out.

      I totally agree with this  completly 
      Is the system perfect no def not 
      But keep in mind that its just there and they will adjust it if they have some data to work with>
      Also there wil be events & legendary quest that indeed can you maye a boost 
      So we dont have all te info and data yet and tbh zeddy is renting 70% of the time just as insomia .
      So yeaah i beleave in blizzard 

      • you believe in Blizzard? they are doing stuff in bad faith. they might fix it. but they did it in bad faith and thats a huge slap in the face of the community

  • My feelings are almost exactly in line with Flux's post above.  Hearthstone is 'expensive' but so are card games in general.  As far as digital CCGs it has set the standard.  MTGA is no less expensive.  Not sure about LoR but it doesn't look that different to me.  

    I'm also going to give blizz more than a business day to make a statement or change.  It's only been a whole business day on friday and most of the complaints amassed over the weekend.  If they don't say something this week then I will start to feel some type of way.

    It's also pretty disappointing that they would release it like this in the first place, because this isn't a "oh the community figured out it was too low for us".  They knew.  

    If they just adjust the late track rewards, adjust the exp rate, i'll be fine.  The new system itself is cool.

     

     

    • Quote From duppie

      My feelings are almost exactly in line with Flux's post above.  Hearthstone is 'expensive' but so are card games in general.  As far as digital CCGs it has set the standard.  MTGA is no less expensive. Not sure about LoR but it doesn't look that different to me. 

       

      The difference between the economy in MTGA/HS and LoR is massive. It's not even close. And this is coming from a former HS whale

    • Quote From duppie

      My feelings are almost exactly in line with Flux's post above.  Hearthstone is 'expensive' but so are card games in general.  As far as digital CCGs it has set the standard.  MTGA is no less expensive.  Not sure about LoR but it doesn't look that different to me.  

      It's somewhat apples-to-oranges, but the F2P rewards in LoR are roughly analogous to 6-9 HS packs plus a wildcard redeemable for 1 legendary of your choice every week in exchange for about the same amount of effort as clearing your daily quests in HS.

      Most of LoR's revenue comes from cosmetics: you can buy emotes, boards, card backs, and in-game pets which are all very popular but don't alter game play. You can also buy crafting resources, but that's usually only for brand-new and/or impatient players -- if you're playing regularly then you can craft pretty much whatever you want after your first ~2 months.

  • LoR system makes the most sense you can get cards mostly from the class(region) you choose, you get cards at a much reasonable rate, you know which type of cards to expect, you get a weekly legendary of your choosing and at least enough dust to craft another by just completing quests daily.

    Also the game is just better in general the only reason I was with HS is sunk cost and familiarity I guess (all my friends quit :( )

    but now the decision is easier I was thinking about quitting but expected the new system to let me want to stay..

    To top it off did you look at the new cards.. do they even look fun? except the 4 old gods? I am looking at them and they are either "more of the same" memes.. or one archtype I maybe want to try but it's probably bad and will cost me 10000 dust.

    HS is expensive, when you buy the preorder you don't feel it as much..

  • I won't be talking much about new progression system because it was perfectly clear three weeks ago, when they officially announced it and showed some of the rewards, that we're getting ripped of our "free" resources, mainly gold. Only thickest of planks that keep their head deep in their behind we're believing that things will change for better before launch because "Blizzard said that nothing we've seen is final". Yeah, right.

    What I'm disappointed in is the battle pass. It was a great opportunity for Blizzard to get additional funds from large portion of player base that don't spend any money on the game because, let's face it, Hearthstone packs and bundles are very expensive. Pricing was done right and I also like that they didn't include any additional packs or resources rewards, only cosmetics are available in order to avoid p2w arguments. Where they completely failed is xp bonus. 10-15-20% system is a joke, and it's a bad one too. Who would spend 20$ to get marginally more gold at the end of the season, and that's only if they play the game for several hours every day? Only someone who doesn't care how much gold they earn each expansion, because they buy their packs with real money anyway.

    Sadly, it only shows that people at Blizzard are completely out of touch with reality. Instead of going for larger, and in a long run more stable and profitable, paying player base, they've decided to milk small number of whales for few extra bucks. Great job guys, give yourself a tap on the back and keep it up!

  • I honestly feel really bad about this, I'm really hyped for the new expansion but seeing that in the long run I won't be able to sustain the cards I always want feels terrible.

    It's goo to see so many content creators talking about it in YT, I hope this keeps spreading and Blizzard does something about this.

    I'm happy as long as I get 100 ore for playing two days minimum as we did before.

  • Ok, so when the Battle Pass (BP) idea was announced in the first place, I was skeptical. When Ben Lee came and answered questions regarding the BP around 3 months ago, I was annoyed at the answers (a big understatement, but I don't want to swear). But as time wore on and as we got closer to today and as we got constantly reassured that the new system would be better than the existing one at the time, I actually started giving Blizzard the benefit of the doubt. And that benefit of the doubt came for two reasons: because, if the system would be crap, the backlash could be gigantic (which is kinda happening right now) and because of Raid Shadow Legends, of all things.

    Because about a year ago, I actually tried RSL, that crap excuse of a "game". My experience: the thing played by itself, every single aspect of it revolved around RNG and there was nothing but shining particles and pretty effects that would sometimes give you that dopamine rush to disguise the fact that you every single thing implemented in RSL was designed to squeeze money out of you (and no, they didn't squeeze it out of me). Those aspects made me eventually uninstall RSL after playing it for around 4 months because the game was literally gambling except there was no chance in hell you'd get money back.

    But the only thing in RSL that actually made me think about spending money was the BP system they implemented, because it was well designed for what the game was about. Everything given in that system was very generous for the reality of the game and there was actually no gambling associated with it. And I thought "if RSL, the most predatorial piece of shit (again, an understatement and I still don't want to swear but with RSL it's impossible not to) got the BP right, I can afford to give HS a chance to do this right". That was the other reason I gave Blizzard the benefit of the doubt.

    Now, after looking at what the BP in HS is about, the first thing that came to mind (after actually giving it a few days experimenting with it instead of throwing a random hothead rant on the internet) was: "What were the original numbers?" Because let's not forget. After the whole "I get around 5000G per expansion" debacle Ben Lee threw at us, Blizzard told us the numbers would be better. The current version is not the one that should be improved, the current version is be improved version. The original BP would be even worse!

    The second thing that came to my head was: what would a better BP system be? Well, I believe we should take the example of the competition: in this case, of MtGA. They had a BP that was pretty ok back when I was playing the game and some of those characteristics could be implemented in the current HS game. So, here's what I believe HS's BP should have:

    1. Experience per level should be flat. The same experience throughout the entire expansion cycle would give the BP a similar feeling to what the old dailies system gave: a feeling of constant progression.
    2. NO LEVEL CAP! Both RSL's and MtGA's BPs were reward systems that were introduced to complement their daily based original reward systems, not replace them. So a level 100 cap, for example, (with enough time to spare to complete the full BP) makes sense there. However, when maybe 90% of the reward system in your game revolves around the BP (the other 10% would be arena rewards and Brawl packs), a level cap is detrimental to give you a reason to play the game past a certain point. I know it's incredibly farfetched, but what if someone actually reaches level 150? How would that player actually have any motivaton to play the game after that? No level cap, or infinite level cap, could solve those issues.
    3. This one was touched in zeddy's video: restruture the reward order and the rewards themselves. At level 47 and 49, we get 300G. At level 48, we get a Year of the Dragon pack. Now, let's ignore the fact that Year of the Dragon cards have, right now, a 4 month life in standard. Why are we getting 300G in two levels and only the equivalent of 100G between those levels? And if we actually consider these are Year of the Dragon cards, that's 100G forcefully spent on basically wild packs (if you play only standard, that's an even more rotten reward). Which lead me to my next idea:
    4. Pack tickets. I get that, by giving us diferent packs throughout the BP, you're making the BP look more varied with every level giving out a unique reward. But, in reality, packs are dimished value. With pack tickets, the BP can still have a similar gold/packs/arena tickets/cosmetics ratio it currently has while literally giving us more value.
    5. Experience events. These would go extra handy in a world where the BP has no level cap.
    6. (EDIT) Totally forgot about this one, because it's more of a quality of life change: show how much XP you gain after every match. Not only for clarity, but also as a way of showing that every game you play matters and gives you progression.

    So, I didn't touch the gold numbers there. They should, of course, simply be higher, especially when compared to the old monetization system and if suggestions number 2 and 5 never become a reality. The BP system, by itself, is not a bad system. The current iteration definitely is. Especially when it seems the usual special quests and random legendary were probably slapped into the first levels as a "hey, look at all the cool stuff you already won with our new reward system" while pretending they don't already give us that through those special quests and logins on expansion day. 

    EDIT: I didn't touch the achievement system. Honestly, it's really good right now. I believe achievement points could be used in someway but even if they end up being just a number that shows up next to your name, they're still fine. Maybe a bit underwhelming in that scenario, but still fine.

  • Everything about this situation feels like a calculated move on Blizzard's part. Even the thematic choice of the expansion is starting to feel like a way to mitigate backlash. The original Old Gods are arguably the most iconic cards in the game's history and their reintroduction will certainly help distract people from this whole fiasco.

    • Quote From SLima

      Everything about this situation feels like a calculated move on Blizzard's part. Even the thematic choice of the expansion is starting to feel like a way to mitigate backlash. The original Old Gods are arguably the most iconic cards in the game's history and their reintroduction will certainly help distract people from this whole fiasco.

      It's a magic trick. They wave the old gods in front of you, and behind their back they're giving you the finger

  • I typically don't read the subreddit - is it a known issue that some folks aren't earning 400 XP per hour in Ranked?

    Within my own group of friends, one complained that he had played for about three hours, and only received 12 XP. We figured out that he had started the day with 100ish XP, levelled up a few times without noticing, and finished the day with 112ish XP at his new, higher level. There seem to be quite a few bugs with the new patch, and from my own experience, the new "scrolling XP bar at the bottom of the screen" rarely appears after finishing a game, and I can only check how much XP I've earned by leaving the Queue screen, and opening up the new Reward Track window to take a look. As it is, I'm regularly earning 460ish XP per hour, having purchased the +15% bonus. With a little bit of math, it looks like I receive an additional +20% XP bonus for winning.

    As far as HS being too expensive - it's worth remembering that the game became much cheaper about seven months ago. Extending "no duplicate" protection to our entire collection more than doubled the value of gold - it takes less than half as many packs to collect a new set, and much less than half as many packs to collect all the "good" cards that actually see play (looking at the HSReplays numbers, only 33 cards from Scholomance, for example, have play-rates above 5%, while only 57 have play-rates above 2%.)

  • Solem and Deckster followed in Zeddy footsteps. Big thing for Decks since he actually was on the good side of Blizzard, receiving card reveals etc. Lets hope he doesnt get blacklisted.

    On the other side Kibler a community favourite is hiding his head in the sand

    • I calculated for myself, who plays minimally but passes all the quests, I get less gold, but with other rewards I get almost the same value (albeit still less than before). 

      That would be okay for me, if for all of this I didn't have to more than double my play time. The key here are weekly quests, which are specific and/or require winning, which is much more demanding than before. You don't want to play that BG weekly? You can switch! Oh look, another BG quest.. And you'll find yourself entering the game every day just so you can switch those, which creates pressure, at least for me. Also, there will be times when luck fails you and those 7 ranked wins will be painful.

      If you truly want the same reward fot the same time as they promised, you have to count out all xp from weekly quests, and the majority of xp from achievements (plus, xp from passive gameplay is much lower than they have stated in their calculations). See where that amount will get you on the reward track. All this without mentioning the lame old packs on later levels and the upcoming miniset. They openly lied and the backlash is deserved.

      • Quote From Ethardoth

        I calculated for myself, who plays minimally but passes all the quests, I get less gold, but with other rewards I get almost the same value (albeit still less than before). 

        That would be okay for me, if for all of this I didn't have to more than double my play time. The key here are weekly quests, which are specific and/or require winning, which is much more demanding than before. You don't want to play that BG weekly? You can switch! Oh look, another BG quest.. And you'll find yourself entering the game every day just so you can switch those, which creates pressure, at least for me. Also, there will be times when luck fails you and those 7 ranked wins will be painful.

        If you truly want the same reward fot the same time as they promised, you have to count out all xp from weekly quests, and the majority of xp from achievements (plus, xp from passive gameplay is much lower than they have stated in their calculations). See where that amount will get you on the reward track. All this without mentioning the lame old packs on later levels and the upcoming miniset. They openly lied and the backlash is deserved.

        Yeah, that is my biggest gripe with the system as well, lot of those Quests are WIN not PLAY, which can actually mean dozen or tens of dozen of hours a difference during the expansion cycle spend playing, if you lose a lot.

        I get it, they try to incentivize playing Ranked and make ppl buy the new packs, i cant say if being more pro-community friendly and getting better PR wouldnt help the sales more while making the players happy overall, guess we will never know.

        I do hope they change it to PLAY eventually. Not to mention that they disallowed for some reason to complete certain quests (play X class) in Tavern Brawl (havent really checked them in other game modes), which just sounds stupid.

        Staff

  • indeed i mean its a new system ofcourse its not perfect and need adjustement but to make the good adjustements they need data 
    it just implementen for a couple of days  xd 
    I mean come on give it a chance an know first everything

  • It's very difficult to look at the timing and feel like Blizzard is actually being honest.

    The feedback was brutal when first announced and we were told we'd definitely earn more. The system was introduced just prior to the set release and that, in retrospect, seems like a calculated move to ensure bundles were purchased prior to seeing the full structure. The response to the massive outrage is essentially to say "sorry, we'll add a bit over 1k gold" and "but wait, there's more!" like a shit TV ad. 

    I won't be purchasing anything unless the system changes in a way that is transparently designed and shows the earnings will be better than they were before. 

  • Prior to staring my usual Sunday morning routine (Hearthstone and some Forzathon Live runs) I decided to redo the math on the rewards track. I'm a bit sluggish and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet, so I could certainly be off or have omitted something. 

    In the old system of daily quests and daily gold I am assuming earnings of 8500 gold per expansion, which is a low estimate based on 70g per day if 50g quest plus 6 wins. Better quests / re-rolls should have most above this figure playing a short time each day.

    This calculation ignores:

    • all cosmetics and all packs from prior sets since they cannot be saved to purchase packs from the next set, which is what gold was saved for in the prior reward structure. Blizzard knows these packs are trash rewards and is insulting us by including their “value” in calculations.
    • the first legendary at level 1 since that was previously given out when a new expansion launched, anyway.
    • the second legendary at level 25 to offset the massive amount of dust required to craft legendary & epic cards needed to chase achievements, and that's being super generous.

    This calculation includes:

    • all 7 Darkmoon Faire packs since they can be acquired while the pack is still relevant, though level 40 and 46 may be too late.
    • both Tavern Tickets since they certainly have a 150 gold value, even if it’s not useful to all players.

    At level 50 we will have earned 5200 gold, though 700 is "spent" on packs and 300 on arena/duels entry. (Gold calculation: 7 MDF packs = 700, 2 Tavern Tickets = 300, 12 levels reward 100 = 1200, 6 levels reward 150 = 900, 6 levels reward 200 = 1200, 3 levels reward 300 = 900)

    At level 50 we still need 3300 gold to reach the 8500 gold mark. Which means we need 22 more level up rewards @ 150 each. At level 72 we hit the mark, which is the low end of what the original system allowed.

    One of my big complaints is that we were told we'd be rewarded for playing the same way we've always played. To me, that meant rewards weren't tied so heavily to ranked and reaching prior earnings could be done in any game mode, as I saw fit as the player. Instead, I am forced to play the way Blizzard prescribes in this system, including blowing through my dust to reach achievements. I don't care about achievements to begin with. Now am I forced to do them to earn gold and they cost me my dust, as well as my time digging around the interface to find them, then building & playing decks to achieve them. It looks like a huge, huge time sink, requiring more time playing (to reach achievements) and browsing the track to find & accept achievement rewards. 

    To me, there are only 2 possible explanations, both are bad. Either Ben Lee lied when telling us we'd earn the same amount or the devs have zero control over final earnings and the monetization team is to blame. There's no way any developer could look at this (original or now-patched version) and be surprised by the backlash. 

    I fully expect to be starving for gold by mid-December (I have about 3800 atm) if not earlier. This whole thing makes me rather sad as a fully invested player that started on day one of open beta. I absolutely refuse to engage in this terrible system. I'll stick around while I have in game gold and dust to spend with the hopes they'll fix this but I have no more faith in this company.

    It seems wise to keep this conversation in view. Blizzard's band aid is not enough and they shouldn't be allowed to let this fade.

    I've already downloaded and started playing LoR. 

     

    • Quote From AbusingKel

      I've already downloaded and started playing LoR. 

      You are very welcome :)

      I didn't quit for a lot of things other people decided to quit: balance, China incident, boring expansions(I deem this expansion boring btw), burning out, disappointing balance, bad metas, not having a deck to play NOPE kept playing,

      Probably cause of sunken cost and sunken time (preordered 4 expansions, 2 small bundles I think.. an adventure, and a starter bundle over 6 years), Also for the feeling of missing out(FOMO) , on new expansions, monthly card back (Didn't miss any since October 2014), since I started studying I am mostly F2P managed to keep up with dailies and previews dust.. (had a lot of dust in extra commons which I didn't dust).

      I was hoping for this reward rework + achievements that was the thing I was looking forward to and why I kept playing, I didn't expect this to be a worse system, anyway the more I read about this incident and previous ones the more I am mad about the stuff I didn't quit for

      I could give another run down of things I am mad about but you know what? **** this game.