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Hearthstone | Posted by | 3 years, 7 months ago
Fan Creations

Infuse The Situation - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

Competition Theme: Infuse The Situation

Oh no, my minions keep dying! What am I to do with all this Anima?

  • You must create a card with Infuse
    • Back to Nathria we go - though of course your card doesn't have to be from Nathria if you don't want it to be

AeroJulwin has notified us of some mysterious deaths going on - it'd be a shame if they all went to waste, wouldn't it?

As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

Competition Phases

Here are the phases of this card design competition

  • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Aug 8 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Aug 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Aug 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Aug 14 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Aug 14 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Aug 15 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

Discussion Thread Rules

No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

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  • Competition Theme: Infuse The Situation

    Oh no, my minions keep dying! What am I to do with all this Anima?

    • You must create a card with Infuse
      • Back to Nathria we go - though of course your card doesn't have to be from Nathria if you don't want it to be

    AeroJulwin has notified us of some mysterious deaths going on - it'd be a shame if they all went to waste, wouldn't it?

    As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Aug 8 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Aug 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Aug 13 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Aug 14 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Aug 14 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Aug 15 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

  • This competition is about to get... bloody!

    EDIT: Here is Party Greeter, playing off of the Dinner Performer mechanic. Because this competition doesn't already have enough Priest, Warlock, or 3-Cost cards (lol).

    Friendly Staff

  • I have two ideas this time around:

    Jealous Shade kind of plays like Circus Medic, where you have to be mindful of the Corrupt (or Infuse in this case) because the two outcomes are quite different. There's a use-case for both of them: the initial Battlecry is good after a Pelagos pop-off turn, while swapping stats is good against enemies in a Thief Priest kind of way. The Shade represents a marriage of both Nathria Priest archetypes :)

    Edit: I found better flavor and art for my Paladin card; it is now called Well Fed. It's the WoW buff you gain for eating food - this is a double entendre, because vampires feed off the living. It functions similarly to Wailor's Legendary from a few comps ago, giving a minion stacking Divine Shields to make them very sticky: the more you eat, the harder you are to kill!

    Edit2: If you don't like stacking Divine Shields, I made another version of Well Fed. After the Infuse (2) it's a cheaper Mark of the Wild, with the potential to be even better.

    Friendly

  • Kinda surprised there wasn't any card like this in the expansion. I guess the miniset will have one.

    I like the minion a bit more, but both need a better flavor (especially the minion).

    Edit: I've come up with Lysa Sinsong. It's probably the worst pun I've ever made a card from.

    I made this card really quick, so it's probably very unbalanced (the Infuse requirement should probably be higher, and maybe it could use a higher Cost)

  • The maze feeds off its victims to grow even more dangerous.

    I photoshopped the red color to resemble anima for the Infused version. It's my first time trying, so I think it's pretty decent.

  • Hey guys im not dead!

  • Early Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    MenacingBagel - Welcome back :D Being not-dead is good, right? Anyway, in regards to your card, unfortunately while I find it amusing I don't think it's good. Switching from restoring Health to dealing damage is a nice twist - Circus Medic had a flexibility that was handy - but the Infuse cost is massive. If you plan on throwing a bunch of people to their deaths to Infuse someone, why not just go all-out with Sire Denathrius? He gives you the damage *and* the healing :(

    AeroJulwin - I could see this winning the comp and I'm jealous of you vis-a-vie its existence. I can't think of anything to nitpick at the moment.

    Wailor - I think Vampiric Awakening has better flavor than the minion, but that doesn't mean I think it should be allowed to exist lol. Resurrect Priest pisses off enough people already, and that card in that particular deck is a scary thought. Redeemer of Sins is neat, but I think it needs to say "Infuse (1): Gain "Battlecry: Resurrect…" because right now the Infuse isn't "attached" to anything as a modifier. See: Stoneborn Accuser. I think with all the Imps around Lysa would be annoying to deal with, because there's a bunch of obvious cheap minions to throw away for the Infuse (and the steal). It would be like Tickatus, in my opinion; you'd never play it before Corrupting/Infusing anyway.

    Demonxz95 - Party Greeter has great art: unless I'm missing something obvious, it looks like it came straight from the game. I don't think "Costs" should be plural like that, though. I like it more than Spectral Split. Spectral Split is a fine card, but the Infuse is pretty high and the best use-case for it - when there's a board full of enemy minions - doesn't correlate into a good situation for the player to be casting the spell ('cause you're spending Mana not-clearing said minions). If you want to go with the Priest spell, maybe up the Cost and the effect, but leave the Infuse alone: like a 5/6-Mana "Summon a 3/3 copy…Infuse (5): 5/5 copies." Now you're getting a big bang for the buck, and are more likely to be building bigger minions than your opponent; i.e: an actual threat that can't be ignored like the 1/1s or the 3/3s.

    Friendly

  • New iteration of Lysa Sinsong.

    She's now a Stoneborn, like Stoneborn Accuser. This is to make her fit better with the flavor of the expansion, but it also means she's no longer a Demon.

    I think the Infuse requirement, stats and Cost are balanced now, but I wonder if the Infuse should let you pick the enemy minion you want. Keep in mind she's meant to be a Token/Zoo card.

    Some early feedback:

    Demonxz95
    Spectral Split is a very believable card, both for the straight-forward effect and for the high quality artwork. Very solid contender.

    Party Greeter is more interesting from a gameplay perspective, but it's quite hard to judge if it's balanced. I mean, I initially thought it was OP, since it's a targeted draw that comes with a body and can be upgraded, but then I realised this card will rarely do anything if played on curve.

    For this reason, I think Spectral Split is a better option, even if I prefer Party Greeter after sitting on it for a bit.

    linkblade91
    I really like Jealous Shade. The effect is very nuanced, and the flavor fits very well with the expansion. The artwork is a bit boring, but it's one of my favorite cards so far.

    About Well Fed, I don't recommend going with the version that stacks Divine Shields, as the card I submitted some comps ago ended up last place amongst the finalists. If you do, however, I recommend an epic rarity, as the effect is quite unique.

    The other version of Well Fed is cool, although I prefer Jealous Shade.

    AeroJulwin
    Very cool card. The Choose One into Choose Twice is a very inventive idea, and both effects fit the flavor very well.

    Not sure if I would submit the Choose One tokens as I think they'll add to much noise, if that makes sense. They are cool as heck, however. Maybe add them as images in the description of the submission?

    MenacingBagel
    Welcome back!

    I like the effect, but the artwork isn't good. In my opinion, it's better to find a single good piece of art and submitting the non-Infused version than to find a mediocre artwork that has two versions.

    I also agree with linkblade that the Infuse requirement should be lower. Maybe 7, to have that nice feeling of having all numbers be the same?

    Finally, maybe Priest would be a better class for this than Neutral.

  • I must say Mr Arthas I loved your work at Stratholme

    Took some advice

  • Feedback time!

    Linkblade91

    Jealous Shade looks pretty solid, although the name is a bit weird.

    I think Well Fed is pretty good. I reckon the second version will probably win more people over.

    Wailor

    I think the reason we never saw a card like Redeemer of Sins is because it's too difficult to play properly. You can kinda see this in the existing cards that they avoid Infuse effects that are dependent on specific minions dying (Sinfueled Golem being a minor exception, and also incredibly terrible). That's not to say that the card is bad or anything. In fact, I think it's quite fine and it's likely to do pretty well, but Link is correct in that it needs to reed 'Gain "Battlecry:…'

    Vampiric Awakening should be best avoided. Regardless of its balance, resurrection cards in Priest tend to get a visceral reaction out of people unless they're designed in a specific way that encourages a playstyle other than just walling with big minions. This will probably affect the voting.

    Lysa Sinsong may be okay, or it may not be. The steal effect is incredibly powerful (although it's not entirely clear that it's random), and Warlock has a ton of ways to throw small insignificant minions out to help get the Infuse counter up. I do like the fact the base version can be used on minions with bad effects to give them to your opponent like Treachery, although the Infuse ends up hurting that as you can't fully control when it upgrades.

    You have some pretty good ideas that could just use a little bit of extra touches.

    AeroJulwin
    I do appreciate the "Choose Twice" route instead of the obvious "do both" route. The card is fine, and in my opinion, just fine. Not amazing or terrible. Just, pretty alright. I do think the artwork is not very Hearthstone-y, but I can imagine that it's probably difficult to find good art that fits what you're trying to do.

    MenacingBagel

    I'm not exactly sure why the "instead" is italicized. You should fix that when you get the chance. I think the name is a bit too bloated as well. Maybe get rid of "Pestilence" and just call it "Purger Paul" or you could then even replace "Paul" with something a little bit more pizzazz-y.

    Even though dealing 7 damage is obviously a lot stronger than restoring 7 Health, I'm not really a big fan of the effect that the effect is technically a sidegrade and not a strict upgrade, although this is entirely personal preference on my part.

    Friendly Staff



  • First proposal for this week's competition:

    Since this week's prompt specifically mentions that the Infuse card doesn't have to be from Murder at Castle Nathria, I tried to imagine what an Infuse card would look like in an older Hearthstone expansion. The idea for a vacuum cleaner card became this GvG concept. Other than the flavor feeling very much on point to me, I think this would be a pretty cool card to have in the game as some Spare Parts have some interesting effects. Some classes that care about generating cards that didn't start in their decks might also consider this card.

    Might not be my final submission. I have another idea but I need to find some fitting flavor for the effect I have in mind.


    Some feedback:

    Show Spoiler


    Demon –     Party Greeter feels much more convincing to me than Spectral Spirit, for sure. My only doubt when it comes to your design comes from the text being maybe a bit unclear: when the game checks if I can afford to play the minions, does it check if I have the mana for one of them or both?

    Say I have 4 mana and play this. Does it draw a 1-Cost minion or two? If two, why? I only have the mana to afford one. If two, that's fine, but it would be something a player has to learn, which is meh. Maybe this kind of effect would be more fitting on a lower cost minion?


    Linkblade –     Not much to say here. Out of the three options, I prefer the second Well Fed. The first one has a cooler effect but until stacking Divine Shields are introduced in the game, the only way you could realistically make a similar effect would be on a Legendary card.


    Wailor –     Of the three designs, I personally prefer Redeemer of Sins. Vampiric Awakening is absolutely unprintable at that Mana cost (Lesser Diamond Spellstone and Mass Resurrection were run in Wild Big Priest not that long ago, look at the Mana difference).

    Lysa Sinsong is also priced pretty agressively. Not sure if she'd be overpowered (I don't love the idea of giving Zoo decks a 4 Mana Mind Control) but at the same time, Infuse (5) is a decently difficult ask. Overall I like it, but it's hard to evaluate.


  • Hey guys im not dead too! So which version wuold you prefer

  • A lot of people are missing Infused version of their cards.

    Feedback

    Demonxz95
    I like Spectral Split better. It seems fun to play. I think it shouldn't get an upgrade for the reason link mentioned: you'd have less mana to spend on removing the copied minions.

    Party Greeter is still a good alternative. Did you change the hue on Spectral Split yourself? In that case you might be able to do the same for Party Greeter, making the portal more purple-ish or something for the uninfused version and using the original art for the infused one.

    linkblade91
    I like Jealous Shade. Would avoid Divine Shield stacking, at least on non-Legendaries. Not much more to add.

    Wailor
    I never considered you could add them to the description. I might do that.

    I like Redeemer of Sins over Vampiric Awakening. Do note that it currently resummons the minion the second it dies while Redeemer of Sins is still in your hand. The new version of Lysa Sinsong says "the opponent" instead of "your opponent" and should probably specify that the enemy minion is random on the uninfused version as well. I'm not sure whether I like Redeemer or Lysa better.

    MenacingBagel
    The new version looks pretty good. I like the name. The previous art really didn't fit Hearthstone. Changing it to Priest was a good decision. Of course it makes sense with the healing effect, but Priest also doesn't have access to the vast amount of tokens some other classes have, so you'll still have to put in the effort to get the powerful effect. When it's not in Neutral it also can't be used together with Sire Denathrius in a token deck.

    Moondreamer
    I don't know enough about GvG/wild meta- or balancewise. I enjoy the flavor, but the effect seems a little simple, so I'd like to see your other idea as well.

    adamsleungcn
    I think adding a Battlecry should be consistent with Stoneborn Accuser. But since that wouldn't fit, I think it makes more sense to have the first effect be a regular Battlecry and then the other effect(s) can upgrade said battlecry. Most Infuse minions already work like that and I don't think these really have a reason to do it differently. Their uninfused versions are currently quite underpowered.

    Grave Horror is a little too close to Insatiable Devourer for my liking. It's also weaker than Insatiable Devourer most of the time despite being a Legendary. "And all copies of it" also seems odd to give a requirement since it already requires an unlikely situation. It would also need a name change. Grave Horror already exists.

    Scheming Deckhand is also a bit close to Bootstrap Sunkeneer. Perhaps it could steal the minion instead and put it in your hand?

    Does anyone know whether submission descriptions show up during the finalists voting for people who didn't vote during the first phase?

  • I need to stop posting my cards so soon, because they end up being very unrefined and I post a ton of iterations of them. Sorry, I promise I won't be so spammy in the future XD

    Ehem, since Redeemer of Sins was my best received idea, I made a new version of it.

    I also have an alternate form which is closer to the original Redeemer: it would be like a Razorfen Hunter with Infuse (1): Summon the minion that Infused this instead.

    Show Spoiler

    More feedback:

    MenacingBagel
    The word instead shouldn't be written in italics, but it goods look otherwise.

    Moondreamer
    The flavor is good and I don't mind it being from GvG, but many people didn't play back then, so they might not know what Spare Parts did.

    That said, I'd like to see your other idea, even if it's initially presented with a very basic flavor.

    adamsleungcn
    I agree with AeroJulwin: the first Infuse should be part of the basic Battlecry in both cards.

    Once this is fixed, I think I prefer Dcheming Deckhand (it's supposed to be Scheming, right?), but the flavor doesn't fit the expansion, so I'd encourage you to find a cool vampire artwork or something like that.

    AeroJulwin
    Descriptions don't show up in the finalist phase, but I still encourage you to post the Choose One tokens in it, as they are too distracting otherwise. Not sure if I'm alone in this, though. The tokens themselves are very cool.

  • Shrewd Broker is an attempt to help the desperately lacking Relic Demon Hunter by providing the ability to draw a Relic on curve, but also to boost them up prior to actually playing one, since Relics are a bit underwhelming without one or two upgrades. The flavor idea is that he'll "sell" you a relic, but will sweeten the deal if you throw in some anima.

    Conspicuous Conspirator was made primarily because I liked the name and art, but I'm worried it might be a smidge too similar to Sketchy Stranger. I think it could make for some interesting plays prior to being Infused, but that it might be too good after being Infused.

    Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    Demonxz95: I like Spectral Split because it supports a board-based Priest that doesn't rely on massively buffing a single minion or two. It feels a tad weak and could have the Infuse lowered to 4. Party Greeter feels simultaneously too situational and potentially game warping. I'm already against Blizzard's recent trend of giving Warlocks easy mana discounts like Runed Mithril Rod, and Greeter could lead to some swingy combo deck down the line. Mainly though, you're more likely to play this on turn 5-6 and play it alongside discounted 2 or 3 drops, which honestly feels kinda weak.

    linkblade91: I like Jealous Shade, but that may be because I designed a similar card back in the multi-target competition :P Regardless, it's simple, in flavor, and feels an appropriate power level. I'm not a fan of the stacking Divine Shield designs in general, so I prefer the Well Fed with different buffs. I don't think it needs the 'as well' for the last buff though.

    Wailor: Val'kyr Soulkeeper looks good, but I also really liked the oringal Redmeeer of Sins. Either would do well. As a side note, good lord that is some horny art of Soulkeeper.

    AeroJulwin: I really like this card. Part me is worried it might be a smidge weak and could use +1 Attack or Health, but that might tip the Infused version to be too strong. A bit sad it doesn't synergize with Hedge Maze at all, but oh well. Great card all around.

    MenacingBagel: In terms of what the card does, it looks pretty good to go. Some worry in giving Priest 7 face damage, but Infusing 7 isn't the easiest think for most Priest decks either. I suggest renaming and possibly reflavoring the card a smidge though, since there are characters in the Warcraft universe such as Grand Apothecary Putress who fit the bill as well. 

    Moondreamer: Putting newer mechanics in older expansions is pretty contested and might lose you a couple of points when it comes to voting. Especially with a mechanic like Infuse, where the current flavor is that the card becomes empower by anima. The card is otherwise pretty solid.

    adamsleungcn: The formatting is off on these, you don't need to say 'Battlecry: Infuse(x)'. These should have a battlecry baseline so they aren't just a pile of stats and then the battlecry becomes enhanced when infused. Scheming Deckhand feels like it's going to be too similar to [Hearthstone Card (Boostrap Sunkeneer) Not Found]. There is already a Grave Horror in Hearthstone, so it would need major reflavoring. The card is also kind of a worse Flik Skyshiv with how conditional it is comparatively.

  • Descriptions don't show up in the finalist phase, but I still encourage you to post the Choose One tokens in it, as they are too distracting otherwise. Not sure if I'm alone in this, though. The tokens themselves are very cool.

    I get where you're coming from, but I kind of want everyone to be able to see them, since I think they add greatly to the flavor. I assume some people only drop by for the finalists voting and with other finalists unable to vote, I think I'll need it if I want to have a shot at winning.

    Wailor
    I know the Infuse (1) version is difficult to pull off right because you're dependant on the boardstate when you draw it, but I think the double resurrect can have some scary best (or y'know, worst) case scenarios. So I expect the alternate form might do better in the voting. I think it will be valuable regardless of what you resurrect and the Infuse (1) is easy to complete.

    BloodMefist
    I like Shrewd Broker better. I think DH is missing the tutored draw for Relics and the Infuse works well too give you value, but prevents the player from getting too much tempo on curve. Also, despite the great name, Conspicuous Conspirator's text gets quite cluttered. And the Infuse makes you miss out on the fun effect :(

  • Yes it is "Scheming", it's a wrong word. And the idea that make "steal" is awesome! So I remake my cards

    If you don't have enough strength to fish, then the fish go back to sea, but if you are powerful ( have already been Infused), you can get fish!

     

    Angele Ziegler is from OW.

     

    Edit.

    The Angele Ziegler is similar to Wailor's card, then I make another card.

  • Extra feedback time.

    Moondreamer

    Congrats on your win last week. I look forward to what you have for next week's competition.

    First thing is first. Do not make Infuse cards for expansions other MaCN. The competition may say that you can, but that doesn't mean that you should. I admire the creativity, but it will cause you to lose some point from a few voters. Myself included particularly. I am quite vocal about the fact that I penalize cards for breaking the game's continuity like this. This was a problem that I had with Nash when it won last week, but it seemed that voting the card on other merits ended up making up for the penalties you may have had.

    If you do decide to use the card anyway though, then the card seems fairly okay, but it should have Stoneborn Accuser wording and say Infuse: Gain "Battlecry: Add 3 different Spare Parts to your hand."

    To answer your question about Party Greeter, it is intended to draw two minions that you can afford to play regardless of whether or not you can afford both of them right now. You may only be able to play one of them this turn and the other on the next turn, but you will still be able to afford either of them to play now. This isn't too relevant though as I've already submitted Spectral Split.

    Adamsleungcn

    Both of these card share many of the same problems. Namely the fact that they both need Stoneborn Accuser wording and say Infuse: Gain "Battlecry…". They also also don't really do anything if they aren't Infused, which just makes them extremely terrible if they don't have any infusions. Most Infuse cards do something if they aren't Infused, and the very few that don't are pretty terrible cards. I also think that both of these cards have a bloated textbox. I think you could cut the first Infuse on both of these cards which will improve their balance and clean their textbox.

    Dcheming Deckhand appears to have a typo, so it's good to have that changed. It also appears to be a worse Bootstrap Sunkeneer which we just saw in the previous set. Fishing Deckhand looks better, but it does still have the problem of not being from Murder at Castle Nathria.

    Grave Horror has a problem in that its name is both not suitable for a Legendary minion, and is already taken by a card in the game also called Grave Horror (which is a Rare, emphasizing my point about the name not being Legendary). The upgrade from Infuse 3 to Infuse 6 is also very insignificant a lot of the time. Rogue has immediate access to Flik Skyshiv which can do the same thing for 1 less mana and no infusing necessary, and its effect to destroy all copies of whatever it destroys has varying levels of relevance where it's sometimes quite strong and sometimes does basically nothing. This however didn't stop the fact that it was still a 6 mana 4/4 minion that came with a free hard removal and was a good target for Rogue tricks. The card also compares quite unfavorably to Insatiable Devourer which has the same effect do devour and gain stats without any infusing necessary, and a bonus effect that is more relevant and powerful in most situations and it also easier to achieve.

    Angela Ziegler has an effect that is very obvious, but is still perfectly serviceable and may give you a high score if the card is refined a bit better. I think the added flavor text of "Heros never die!" is unnecessary, but if you decided to keep it anyway, they it shouldn't be bolded. Instead, it should be italicized. The card shouldn't have an Angel tribe tag as it's not a minion type in Hearthstone, and the card also shouldn't use the Classic watermark either. I assume this is mostly to show off a proof of concept rather than a finished idea, but it's never a bad reminder to have if you decide to go with this idea as your submission. I do also think that taking a character from another media universe and making it into a card is probably going to hurt your score pretty significantly unless the competition is specifically based around doing this, so that's something to keep in mind.

    EDIT: Anesthesia Shooter is an okay idea (if possibly weak given that Maiev Shadowsong is a card), but the artwork doesn't belong in Hearthstone.

    Wailor

    I think I prefer the alternate form of Val'kyr Soulkeeper personally, and I think it's good that this version has a Battlecry effect at baseline. It is perhaps a little bit weird that the card has anti-synergy with the second copy of itself because of the 1/1 Soul, but I feel like this is probably just unavoidable with this type of design.

    Your Epic Val'kyr Soulkeeper is more flashy, which might do better. I'm really not so sure how to proceed forward with the card actually.

    BloodMefist

    Wow, I really like Shrewd Broker. It's fairly simple, but it's elegant Relic DH support. I say great job!

    Conspicuous Conspirator has great flavor, but I'm not as big of a fan of the effect as I am with Shrewd Broker. I do agree that it steps on the toes of Sketchy Stranger a bit too much, and it also falls into a design that I'm not personally a huge fan of which are Secrets that reveal themselves to the other player since that completely removes the secretive aspect of the Secret.

    I say definitely go with Shrewd Broker.

    Friendly Staff

  • Alright, this is my final design and the card I'll be submitting. There shouldn't be any mistakes or inconsistencies in the text. I'll explain the idea behind this design directly in the voting page.

    I'm a bit surprised to see how strong the pushback was on the idea of making a card using a newer mechanic for an older set. I'll play by the (unspoken) rule but I think it's a really silly reason to deduct points from a design. If anything, since these are custom cards that will most likely never make it in the actual game, we could really use the extra freedom the developers wish they had when it comes to bringing back old keywords, mechanics, etc.

    Anyway, and consider this a minor spoiler -- if Shadows allows me, at least for next week everyone will be encouraged to break this silly rule :)

     

    • Quote From Moondreamer

      I'm a bit surprised to see how strong the pushback was on the idea of making a card using a newer mechanic for an older set. I'll play by the (unspoken) rule but I think it's a really silly reason to deduct points from a design. If anything, since these are custom cards that will most likely never make it in the actual game, we could really use the extra freedom the developers wish they had when it comes to bringing back old keywords, mechanics, etc.

      Anyway, and consider this a minor spoiler -- if Shadows allows me, at least for next week everyone will be encouraged to break this silly rule :)

      It's not silly in the slightest.

      These cards will never be in the game, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be expected to follow guidelines of card design. There's a lot of extremes that this can be taken to. If we let the thought process of "this will never be in the game" dominate everything, then we could theoretically justify a lot of crazy things like blatantly OP and problematic cards or removing an entire class from the game. If they're never going to be added to the game, then they're technically of no consequence, right? Taking this argument to a much more grounded area, watermarks on cards are one such place. If a card has an incorrect watermark for the context of when the card exist, the card's realism is completely erased and thus the card becomes non-believable. Since this is a detail that is incredibly easy for both the creator and the viewers to spot, it also comes off as unprofessional. In general, people want their cards to feel like they could be real cards, and watermaks are not one of the most basic and easiest ways for this to shine through, but also one of the most integral.

      Watermarks may not affect the actual balance of the card itself, but it can be quite important in other areas. The most prominent example I see of this are cards that are dependent on mechanics that didn't exist yet, or Secrets from other classes in Standard rotations where they have no other Secrets. If you make for instance, a Priest Secret in Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, well then it's unfortunately just tough shit since there's no other Secrets for them in Standard rotation, making it the only Secret that the class has access to, rendering the Secret non-functional as a Secret. Similarly, I sometimes see a card that requires spell school synergy, but is placed in a set before Forged in the Barrens. Is the card believable as a card in that set? Not only is the card, but also cannot function in the environment it is placed it.

      Any card that falls into one of these two traps are cards that I automatically rate 1-star regardless of how well designed they may be otherwise. In the content of when/where they exist, their effects are completely non-functional. This exact reason is why our Top Three-cret prompt from last season asked us to make 3 Secrets for a class instead of 1, and it's also the reason why existing Hearthstone sets that add Secrets for Rogue add 3 Secrets instead of 1. In the case of Vacuuming Butler, even if the card can't be a GvG card because it uses a mechanic that didn't exist yet, it would still be functional as a card, meaning that the most it would get is probably a 1-star penalty, but this is still an example as to why the context of where your card is placed is often quite important. If your card is not designed with any particular set in mind (existing or custom), then just any custom watermark will suffice and it will make the card look better.

      There's nothing wrong with theorizing how past mechanics would work in current sets or current mechanics in past sets. If you're making a funny little set built around that's idea, then that's absolutely fine. It's not horrible if it's on a card presented as a proof of concept that it clearly not intended to be a finished product, but on something that is presented as a final build for a card, then it just feels like the person who created their card literally just didn't care about their own card and it makes it almost impossible to take them seriously. Perhaps I've just seen too many people make this exact mistake in the way that comes off just like I described, but that's just the way that it feels almost 100% of the time without context as part of a larger project. I know that quite a few people here have this mindset too, so for your own sake, it is better to avoid this. It not only makes your cards look better, but it also makes you look better as a card creator, and it should give your cards better average scores.

      Do understand that I'm just very passionate about quality in card design, so if I sound like my rough side is coming out a lot, then that would be why (lol). I can see that you have quite a bit of potential as a card creator. We're all here to help each other guide one-another in the right direction. One of the great things about the FC community is that we're all students and teachers at the same time. Absolutely all of us can learn from another person here, and we're all eager to help each other become the best that they can be.

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      • Quote From Demonxz95
        (Response)

         

        I agree with some of the things you are saying. I'm obviously not saying we should pretend entire classes don't exist in the game or that we should justify blatantly overpowered designs. I've never thought that should be the case and that's just pushing my argument to its logical extreme.

        I agree with you on the fact that you can't print a single Secret for a class that doesn't have any others. Obviously that would be terrible as the card would be non-functional and fundamentally broken.

        But the rest of your post has not convinced me in the slightest that I'm wrong when it comes to my idea that creators should be allowed to break some rules. I think you are stating your opinion in a way that's trying to be objective, when clearly it's a matter of personal preference. As long as the card is functional, I really don't see any reason why Infuse couldn't be in a previous set or why a card made for a modern set couldn't utilize a previous keyword. Take one of your examples. Sure, before Forged in the Barrens we didn't have Spell Schools. But now we do and we know the Spell Schools of previously released spells. Take Rogue's set from Journey to Un'Goro: looking at it now, we can see that every spell they received except the Quest is a Nature spell. Would designing a Rogue card that interacts with Nature spells in that set be that bad? It's fine if you think so, I'm not judging your opinion on the matter. I just disagree.

        When I said that creators should be able to break some rules, I meant minor ones. Take, for example, Full-Blown Evil, printed in Fractured in Alterac Valley. If that were a custom card, I'd see literally no reason not to use Echo instead of "Repeatable this turn." I understand why the developers don't do it and I agree with them. But the thing is, this is a custom card forum with (supposedly) highly engaged players that have access to the entire card database. Confusing new players is not an issue. In my opinion, if that card were to be a cusotm card, I think there would be no reason why it should have Repeatable this turn instead of Echo.

        Again, it's fine if you feel like penalizing cards that don't submit to your personal standards, I'm just saying that's something that you are deciding to do, not something that's in the rules or that's objective in any way, shape or form. There's not a standard when it comes to scores, unless a forum member has specifically created a post where they describe in detail how they assign votes, so in the end I don't think this is such a big deal. Just as you penalize participants that break these rules, I could easily give them extra points because in my eyes they are being original. It's just a matter of personal taste.

  • Just under five hours left to submit!

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  • Good luck to the finalists :)

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  • Oh hey, I'm the winner: thanks everyone who voted for me <3

    3.94444; so close to that 4.0 in the opener.

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