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Hearthstone | Posted by | 6 years, 9 months ago
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Is Netdecking that bad?

Hi all... 

 I know. Its a little bit of a clickbait title isn't it? But I'm of the opinion that sharing decks with people is a good thing.

 I'm not talking about those decks that become Behemoths in the field. Those Page One Monsters that everyone plays because "Day One Legend In 25 games! EZ!!". Nope. Not those.

Dig a little deeper and you find some real gems. Look for a Random card in your Collection that appears terrible (Arena Treasure Chest for instance) and search for a deck built around it. In the depths of the Internet there are many and varied ones that will appear.

 This is the beauty of 'Netdecking'. Finding those crazy decks that might just work out for you because everyone else is playing those Page One Monsters. 

 Maybe it's just me. But that's the whole point of the Internet isn't it? To share ideas? 

 When I started playing MtG around '95 or so my friends and I had to rely on word of mouth and Magazine Articles for the newest and baddest decks out there. Now it's easy.

 So I implore you all, just because someone says Netdeck it should not be a bad thing. On the contrary, let's embrace it. 

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  • Hi all... 

     I know. Its a little bit of a clickbait title isn't it? But I'm of the opinion that sharing decks with people is a good thing.

     I'm not talking about those decks that become Behemoths in the field. Those Page One Monsters that everyone plays because "Day One Legend In 25 games! EZ!!". Nope. Not those.

    Dig a little deeper and you find some real gems. Look for a Random card in your Collection that appears terrible (Arena Treasure Chest for instance) and search for a deck built around it. In the depths of the Internet there are many and varied ones that will appear.

     This is the beauty of 'Netdecking'. Finding those crazy decks that might just work out for you because everyone else is playing those Page One Monsters. 

     Maybe it's just me. But that's the whole point of the Internet isn't it? To share ideas? 

     When I started playing MtG around '95 or so my friends and I had to rely on word of mouth and Magazine Articles for the newest and baddest decks out there. Now it's easy.

     So I implore you all, just because someone says Netdeck it should not be a bad thing. On the contrary, let's embrace it. 

  • I agree. I hate the current meta tbh. I'm all about finding out new decks. Right now I want to make something that easily can eat mage's giants. With secret hunter I have a good winrate, it's "ok" with warrior too. But when I play warrior I always face mech hunters and I hate having Dyno-matic at turn 5 versus them. So many things I wanna do and try out, I rarely play anymore lol. 

  • Agreed. This isn't meant to be an insult, but some people are honestly terrible at deck building. Net decking opens up avenues for those players to actually expand what decks they might otherwise try or be able to build themselves.

    • Quote From LyraSilvertongue

      Agreed. This isn't meant to be an insult, but some people are honestly terrible at deck building. Net decking opens up avenues for those players to actually expand what decks they might otherwise try or be able to build themselves.

      Yeah, everything competetive finds a meta. Everyone wants to be the best. Gaming, sports or even trends that sell the most. Everyone keep track of what is most efficient. 

      It is boring for people who want to do their own thing, but obviously a Ferrari wins over a horse wagon so why bother being bad  :p 

  • I honestly have to agree as well. There is a thread on hearthpwn about this topic too, but with the opposite argument in the OP. 

    Even though it makes the game less diverse, I often run out of deck building ideas, and the internet seems great in that situation. 

  • Well if it weren't for Blizzards new deck helper those would be valid points, but the new deck helper makes you able to finish your "deck idea" with some decent choices.

    At least that's my opinion.

    Not saying netdecking is bad per se, but I think there is another solution for the arguments given.

    • Quote From Cleef2

      Well if it weren't for Blizzards new deck helper those would be valid points, but the new deck helper makes you able to finish your "deck idea" with some decent choices.

      At least that's my opinion.

      Not saying netdecking is bad per se, but I think there is another solution for the arguments given.

      I don't think that's how it works though? I'm not sure but I think it works by picking the very best deck available with the cards that you have. There are a couple of different 'layers' that the Deck Helper uses. The first one being the 'Meta Layer' which is an algorithm that looks at the most popular decks being played at your Rank. Then it proceeds to create a deck built around that.

       So in effect you are creating a Meta Deck. Just with the cards you have. True its not 'Netdecked' per se but it is as close to a Tier One deck as you can get.

       Which wasn't really the point of my OP.... 

      • Quote From EndlessTides
        Quote From Cleef2

        Well if it weren't for Blizzards new deck helper those would be valid points, but the new deck helper makes you able to finish your "deck idea" with some decent choices.

        At least that's my opinion.

        Not saying netdecking is bad per se, but I think there is another solution for the arguments given.

        I don't think that's how it works though? I'm not sure but I think it works by picking the very best deck available with the cards that you have. There are a couple of different 'layers' that the Deck Helper uses. The first one being the 'Meta Layer' which is an algorithm that looks at the most popular decks being played at your Rank. Then it proceeds to create a deck built around that.

         So in effect you are creating a Meta Deck. Just with the cards you have. True its not 'Netdecked' per se but it is as close to a Tier One deck as you can get.

         Which wasn't really the point of my OP.... 

        I think that happens when you just hit the deck helper button without any cards. If you put in 10-15 cards (in your op including the treasure cheat) and have no idea on how to continue the deck helper will give you other synergetic cards (where the winrate is not horrible). At least that's how I understood the deck helper works.

        • Quote From Cleef2
          Quote From EndlessTides
          Quote From Cleef2

          Well if it weren't for Blizzards new deck helper those would be valid points, but the new deck helper makes you able to finish your "deck idea" with some decent choices.

          At least that's my opinion.

          Not saying netdecking is bad per se, but I think there is another solution for the arguments given.

          I don't think that's how it works though? I'm not sure but I think it works by picking the very best deck available with the cards that you have. There are a couple of different 'layers' that the Deck Helper uses. The first one being the 'Meta Layer' which is an algorithm that looks at the most popular decks being played at your Rank. Then it proceeds to create a deck built around that.

           So in effect you are creating a Meta Deck. Just with the cards you have. True its not 'Netdecked' per se but it is as close to a Tier One deck as you can get.

           Which wasn't really the point of my OP.... 

          I think that happens when you just hit the deck helper button without any cards. If you put in 10-15 cards (in your op including the treasure cheat) and have no idea on how to continue the deck helper will give you other synergetic cards (where the winrate is not horrible). At least that's how I understood the deck helper works.

          WELLLLL....

          The deck doesn't really hunt down synergies.  It isn't that smart.  

          The deck is focused on win rate.  It tries to make the best winning deck you can using the cards you added in.  This is why adding 1-3 cards doesn't change the actual deck it suggests, because "the best deck + 3 bad cards is till the best deck".  

          To get a different deck, you have to put in cards where 'the generic best deck' can't work well with the cards you added.  At around 10 cards, it becomes VERY hard to make a deck that ignores your cards work so it's going to end up with a deck that actually uses the cards you added in.  The better the cards and synergies, the faster it hits the point when it hits that point.

          So it's a very basic mentality that just happens to work out for what people will tend to want.  If you aren't putting many cards in, you probably are just after a good deck.  If you have most of the deck filled, you want cards that fit with the deck you made.

          The only way this fails is the "make a deck around THIS card" mentality.  

           

          Note that the entire concept is "find the deck everyone else is doing well with."  The deck helper isn't an alternative to netdecking. It's Netdecking Easy Mode.  

           

          As far as netdecking, that's not something you can force not happen.  Like the deck helper, whatever limits you put into the game doesn't prompt creativity and uniqueness: just a new meta.  Ban every used card and you'll create a meta different from the main meta, but it'll still be A meta and whatever decks come from it will be netdecked and played over and over.  Just like how no matter what cards you put into the deck helper, whatever deck it'll make it'll KEEP making over and over.  Even if you put some complicated rules, all players will do is game the rules to the detriment of everyone else.

          Choosing to change things up for the sake of changing things has to be a choice by the players involved.  You can't force people to do it. The best you can do is a whitelist, so that only those who play the way you like are together playing the way you want.  

  • Our first Netdecking post! We should take a picture or something... :-)

    Just kidding  (Actually I can't verify that as I've not scoured the list)

    Anyway, on a more serious and back to your topic: 
    There is something really useful about netdecks - they give people a chance to play decent decks if they don't have the skills in deck creation that others do.

    This is important for some players because they can be really skillful players, but would struggle to make an optimised deck, so it is a case of relying on the help of others to get the best game play.

    An additional thing about netdecking is that the problem usually isnt the netdecks themselves, it's something that is more intrinsic to card-based games in general and that's the lack of diversity that can often come from only a small number of decks that end up ruling the meta. 
    Because these decks are so strong, they are super-popular, and people naturally want to win, so they look for and choose what seems to be the easiest road to obtaining that win.

     

  • In a competitive environment, in the age of Internet, people will always find somewhere what the best option is and will copy it. But it's ok, it's not something that can be avoided even if it leads to a meta. But if you're really a competitive player than you actually want to play against the best, so no problem here.

    The good side of the situation is that those who are not interested in competitivness but are willing to find new and funny ideas can also search around for those. The issue here rise (on HS) because there isn't an environment that is not filled with netdecks, making that almost terrible to go out and actually have some fun. We need a real Casual mode where the top tier decks are not allowed.

  • I think it should also be pointed out that even when someone netdecks a very strong deck there is still the upside for you that you almost everything in that deck and know exactly how the deck aims to play. If you bring a less popular netdecked idea your opponent may not have that advantage over you. So if anything it benefits you if your opponent netdecks against you.