With nightfall I think that the theme is quite independant from it's champions which is why you see several stables like Pale Cascade being used outside of nightfall decks.
Nocturne and Diana more have the purpose to enable a deck based on the nightfall mechanic.
Lurkers however... don't let me get started with this parasitic mechanic that basically takes away deckbuilding and allows to autopilot the deck.
Nothing about lurkers exite me from the lack of interaction over reliance on lurk triggers (often rng) to it's play patterns of just fullswing overstatted units until eighter the opponent is dead or you run out of units... if any mechanic feels like it should not be a part of the game (because it oversimplyfies the game)I think lurk as a whole takes the cake
That's a very valid criticism, the ratio of region support vs archetype support is not something they always get right, but nightfall is not a good example of that.
Let's take a look a some nightfall cards for Shadow Isles we have Doombeast, Unspeakable Horror who are centered around the drain mechanic and we also have Stygian Onlooker which is a fearsome unit both of these mechanic are core to shadow Isles. As for Targon we have cards like Pale Cascade which a buff again that is core to Targon. These cards do see play in non-nightfall decks.
Nightfall is actually a good example about how you can introduce a new mechanic that can also help the region as a whole without breaking it's identity.
I think a more accurate example would be Tahm Kench and his followers the champion does introduce a new mechanic to Bilgwater which is self damage even though Bilgwater doesn't have access to any form of healing or any unit that benefit from being damaged, their design only make sense when paired with Targon since the region offer plenty of healing and a win con based on healing so you want your unit to be damaged.
If youre looking for value, 45 packs is always better than golden packs because there's an average chance to get at least 2 legendaries out of it (20 packs per legendary on average). 10 golden packs doesn't even come close. In terms of dust, assuming no epics or legendaries, they're about 100 dust apart, so there's no reason to buy golden packs for better dust.
But if youre rich or want to experience what's it like to suffer from buyer's remorse, then 10 goldens is definitely, positively, the best choice.
Pretty sure you're looking at the promo right now, so those golden packs promo will get you 1 golden legendary. If you have a target and don't want to chance it, then getting those golden legendaries does guarantee you the dust to craft it. But I still would rather go for 45 packs than 10 goldens.
Ooh I missed this at the start. Just hit 69 (nice) today as well as finished my High Warlord Quest. I got a Vanndar early on but dusted him as I got closer to the golden reward. Been enjoying the expansion with a variety of decks. Favorites are Big Spell Mage and Ichman Hunter! Not good decks but so fun.
This time I did get the pass. Got a decent haul on Legends too so far. Enjoying this set a lot as a casual ranked player. Looking forward to end of month rewards and the mini-set to come.
Yeah, not a great idea from the start but when you're frazzled for something, you just gotta do with what you got.
But I did nonetheless come up with something else. Tried to spin around Druid's tendency to benefit from a wide board (particularly modeled after Soul of the Forest) into building one from your opponent.
I wasn't sure if 4 was the right cost for the card. I just thought "Vivid Spores is 4 mana, and this basically that card in reverse so, 4 again? It does have the potential to allow for some wide board building, though Druid doesn't have strong AoE to combo with it.
Just use the salt threads to vent if that's the goal. Use discussion forums to have discussions. If you pour salt all over the forums then don't be too surprised to see everyone tell you off for it. Its not about others taking offense from your personal expressions, its about using the proper channel to do it.
If you want to spark a discussion about netdecking, and how you dont think that's healthy for the game, then say so, leave the excessive sarcasm and apparently funny insults in reddit where it belongs. This is hardly the first time: if you feel the community is not getting your valid points because its coated with shit, then leave the shit behind and bring up the points.
In any case, the only true simple deck you've listed is pirate quest warrior, where turns practically plays itself. The very definition of curvestone in 2021. But netdecking doesn't make anyone a legend player, it merely simplifies the deck building process. With that comes its own risks, because really good players would then know what to play around and ups their chances. That's why pirate warrior winrates decreases as the rank goes higher and higher.
I don't get offended by it. I've been incarcerated before and grew up in a dicey neighborhood so the written word of some gamer I've never met doesn't make me bat one eye.
However on the ethics of etiquette I will point out that I was calling out a general group of players while you are singling out one. So which of us is the rude one?
Also someone has to make threads here! These forums are barren. I'm just trying to start conversation and, hey, it's working....
If you get offended by this, that speaks volumes about you. I'm using a few literary techniques to annunciate a point. Satire, repetition, avant garde. Please take with a grain of salt.
Here's my feedback, a day late and a dollar short. Meant to get it up yesterday but I was having too much fun playing Gunfire Reborn lel:
Show Spoiler
Demonxz95 - You really like resetting the game to the start lol :P I am not a fan, to be honest, because as AeroJulwin alluded to there isn't much advantage to be had here. Celestial Alignment's positives can be exploited; this is just a hard reset that drags out the game and/or forces you to double-down on the ramp to get back up to speed.
R - Going the Prime route is a great idea; kind of upset I didn't think of it first. That said Xavius Prime should not produce Dream cards, unless it is explicitly Nightmare. It's a major disconnect to the whole flavor. I would not be against something as simple as "Add three copies of Nightmare to your hand", to try and extend for lethal, although I imagine there are more creative things to do with it.
AeroJulwin - I think the card is neat, but I wonder if I would ever use it. Theoretically the Druid wouldn't be as punished because ramp can mitigate the cost, but I wonder if such a thing would make more sense in the Warlock. That or some other class that can burn through its deck faster; lets you screw with your opponent without hurting yourself as much. If your deck is slower, you have more to lose from this.
Wailor - My concern with this effect is that you would just use it to guarantee someone's death: if they're low on Health they literally can't do anything but skip their turn and await your lethal hit. Fever Dream is especially bad because you can cast it twice in a round for double the trouble. Xavius might be fine, given it's an expensive Legendary, but it's definitely not a fun card to be around IMO.
BasilAnguis - Immune is dangerous; always makes me nervous. Two turns is a lot, as well. I don't know, it just seems like a small downside when you can turn off like a token or something small for what could be a major play.
TheHoax91 - It's certainly an interesting idea: you would naturally play this last in a turn, after doing what damage you can. I think it might seem unintuitive for some, and that could cost you points.
Could be talking about the Dollmaster Dorian + Plot Twist, Bloodbloom + Cataclysm combo. I think the Bloom nerf killed that.
At launch of Barrens a list similar to this one that ran Hemet could win by turn 8 if you had the Coin and got lucky draws. Same idea: 0 mana minion, Shadow Hunter to swap with the only other minion in your hand, Mecha’thun, and then Cataclysm. 9 mana total for the combo turn. Just had to make sure you didn’t play Hemet until after you draw a 0 mana minion.
Played a deck like this with a few alterations and absolutely breezed Diamond to Legend this month, went 22-3 with it. Deck felt incredibly OP if im being honest. Heals/Armour to keep you alive, decks that want the board you can freeze over and over again and rats to help you with combo decks
For what it's worth, I think you're right about how the Riot design philosophy works here - Champions are about fulfilling a particular fantasy regardless of their region. I guess it's a big part of why I got frustrated with the game, but for folks that have no issue with that, the game is probably totally reasonable.
As far as I'm concerned, if it were just Champions in isolation that broke the regional identites, it might be fine. But Champions often need Followers that directly support their unique game plan in order to work (e.g. the Diana and Nocturne need a lot of Nightfall units to work, and Rek'Sai's payoff is worthless if your deck isn't full of Lurkers). The result is that huge chunks of expansions are dedicated not to the core regional identities of regions, but to the Champions' identities.
I think creating a Prime is a great idea. Similar to linkblade's 7-cost Corrupt, it requires some setting up. That allows you to go a little nuts with the effect, which is exactly what a lot of the cards for this prompt need.
That being said, the Prime effect isn't very interesting to me. It already exists on Ysera the Dreamer and why Dream cards? Isn't Xavius suppose to be on the opposite side?
Demonxc95
The effect fits Druid and although it may look similar at first, in practice it works quite different from Celestial Alignment.
However, I just don't think it's very appealing. It's effectively a hard reset, which makes the match progress very slowly and will remove the advantage of any extra mana crystals Druid is so fond of getting.
I think how offended people get by my posts really speaks volumes. I'm using a few literary techniques to annunciate a point. Satire, repetition, avant garde. Please take with a grain of salt.
Yes, fun IS subjective but when my sort of fun is being oppressed I feel I have all rights coming out swinging like this.
let's try an example as you would rather me state it:
"Oh jeez man I rly don't like how these easy to play decks are everywhere. It'd make the game better if ppl played more interesting decks like burgle rogue"
Do you see how ineffective and tired that paragraph is? Why not just enjoy the show? Are you really that easily offended? My point is valid if insulting but should be worth thinking about.
Or maybe Trump, Kibler, Regis and many more are wrong too...
It might be unnecessaryly complicated, but I phrased that sentence like this on purpose: If 2023 finds Shadows happy and healthy, that means that 2022 has been a good year for them ;-)
Honestly, you should really stop starting threads like these. I'm not even sure if this is a serious attempt to start a discussion anymore or one of those opportunities to point someone to the Salt Thread. I give you the benefit of the doubt and take it as an invitation to debate netdecking, but as several people have told you before: check your manners mate. You can't expect us to happily exchange opinions with you when you start the discussion with such a haughty tone that borders on insult. And don't come back at me again with that freedom of speech stuff, it's not like your threads get locked (yet?). I for one won't reply to your rants anymore if you don't improve your choice of words.
What's really difficult is trying to come up with something that makes sense for the competition, but at the same time, not going against the core philosophies of how Druid cards are designed. Some designs I can think of in my mind that make sense are like "oh, that's kinda cool, but... it I can't break that weakness of Druid."
Nonetheless, I did manage to get something out that doesn't fall into that trap.
You are not wrong on that, you can translate a champions ability in way that stay true to region identity, it's exactly what they did with LeBlanc.
In league Leblanc is a squishy burst mage who either one shot you or die so her LOR equivalent has high power with quick attack and low health, they also made her a combat oriented to fit within Noxus play style. The thing is most of the player base hated that design even dubbing her Lebland, because the majority of the player base care more about the champion fulfilling a certain power fantasy than how honest they are to a region identity.
That's why region identity for me at very least is tied more to the generic tool that a region have rather than the champions themselves. So if they release a champion like Urgot for example and made him a very good combat centric unit which is something that P&Z isn't supposed to be good at, that wouldn't bother me but if they start releasing a bunch a good generic combat centric cards that any P&Z deck could use then that would a problem.
Does each region have enough of an identity?
With nightfall I think that the theme is quite independant from it's champions which is why you see several stables like Pale Cascade being used outside of nightfall decks.
Nocturne and Diana more have the purpose to enable a deck based on the nightfall mechanic.
Lurkers however... don't let me get started with this parasitic mechanic that basically takes away deckbuilding and allows to autopilot the deck.
Nothing about lurkers exite me from the lack of interaction over reliance on lurk triggers (often rng) to it's play patterns of just fullswing overstatted units until eighter the opponent is dead or you run out of units... if any mechanic feels like it should not be a part of the game (because it oversimplyfies the game)I think lurk as a whole takes the cake
Does each region have enough of an identity?
That's a very valid criticism, the ratio of region support vs archetype support is not something they always get right, but nightfall is not a good example of that.
Let's take a look a some nightfall cards for Shadow Isles we have Doombeast, Unspeakable Horror who are centered around the drain mechanic and we also have Stygian Onlooker which is a fearsome unit both of these mechanic are core to shadow Isles. As for Targon we have cards like Pale Cascade which a buff again that is core to Targon. These cards do see play in non-nightfall decks.
Nightfall is actually a good example about how you can introduce a new mechanic that can also help the region as a whole without breaking it's identity.
I think a more accurate example would be Tahm Kench and his followers the champion does introduce a new mechanic to Bilgwater which is self damage even though Bilgwater doesn't have access to any form of healing or any unit that benefit from being damaged, their design only make sense when paired with Targon since the region offer plenty of healing and a win con based on healing so you want your unit to be damaged.
Opening Packs
Yeah, I didn't played HS for some years. So I need dust and new cards. Thanks for reply. And happy new year!
Card Design Conversation - Zero Regrets
Too much thinking required that early in the morning :D
Opening Packs
If youre looking for value, 45 packs is always better than golden packs because there's an average chance to get at least 2 legendaries out of it (20 packs per legendary on average). 10 golden packs doesn't even come close. In terms of dust, assuming no epics or legendaries, they're about 100 dust apart, so there's no reason to buy golden packs for better dust.
But if youre rich or want to experience what's it like to suffer from buyer's remorse, then 10 goldens is definitely, positively, the best choice.
Pretty sure you're looking at the promo right now, so those golden packs promo will get you 1 golden legendary. If you have a target and don't want to chance it, then getting those golden legendaries does guarantee you the dust to craft it. But I still would rather go for 45 packs than 10 goldens.
Opening Packs
Which one variant is better? 45 regular packs or 10 golden packs?
Rewards Track Progress: 4.0
Ooh I missed this at the start. Just hit 69 (nice) today as well as finished my High Warlord Quest. I got a Vanndar early on but dusted him as I got closer to the golden reward. Been enjoying the expansion with a variety of decks. Favorites are Big Spell Mage and Ichman Hunter! Not good decks but so fun.
Legendaries: Opened: Mulvrick, Ichman, Caria Felsoul, Saidan , Bru'kan (hero) , Dreadlich Tamsin
Redwarded: Drek'thar, Vanndar, Korrak, Lokholar
Crafted: Dawngrasp(hero), Xyrella (Hero)
This time I did get the pass. Got a decent haul on Legends too so far. Enjoying this set a lot as a casual ranked player. Looking forward to end of month rewards and the mini-set to come.
Nightmare On Emerald Street - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Yeah, not a great idea from the start but when you're frazzled for something, you just gotta do with what you got.
But I did nonetheless come up with something else. Tried to spin around Druid's tendency to benefit from a wide board (particularly modeled after Soul of the Forest) into building one from your opponent.
I wasn't sure if 4 was the right cost for the card. I just thought "Vivid Spores is 4 mana, and this basically that card in reverse so, 4 again? It does have the potential to allow for some wide board building, though Druid doesn't have strong AoE to combo with it.
I am a human. You are a robot.
Just use the salt threads to vent if that's the goal. Use discussion forums to have discussions. If you pour salt all over the forums then don't be too surprised to see everyone tell you off for it. Its not about others taking offense from your personal expressions, its about using the proper channel to do it.
If you want to spark a discussion about netdecking, and how you dont think that's healthy for the game, then say so, leave the excessive sarcasm and apparently funny insults in reddit where it belongs. This is hardly the first time: if you feel the community is not getting your valid points because its coated with shit, then leave the shit behind and bring up the points.
In any case, the only true simple deck you've listed is pirate quest warrior, where turns practically plays itself. The very definition of curvestone in 2021. But netdecking doesn't make anyone a legend player, it merely simplifies the deck building process. With that comes its own risks, because really good players would then know what to play around and ups their chances. That's why pirate warrior winrates decreases as the rank goes higher and higher.
I am a human. You are a robot.
I don't get offended by it. I've been incarcerated before and grew up in a dicey neighborhood so the written word of some gamer I've never met doesn't make me bat one eye.
However on the ethics of etiquette I will point out that I was calling out a general group of players while you are singling out one. So which of us is the rude one?
Also someone has to make threads here! These forums are barren. I'm just trying to start conversation and, hey, it's working....
I am a human. You are a robot.
I hope you stop making threads one day.
If you get offended by this, that speaks volumes about you. I'm using a few literary techniques to annunciate a point. Satire, repetition, avant garde. Please take with a grain of salt.
Nightmare On Emerald Street - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
No, its like after Nightmare Lord Xavius's death Emerald Dream is freed from the corruption. (:
Updated my Prime version!
Nightmare On Emerald Street - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Here's my feedback, a day late and a dollar short. Meant to get it up yesterday but I was having too much fun playing Gunfire Reborn lel:
Demonxz95 - You really like resetting the game to the start lol :P I am not a fan, to be honest, because as AeroJulwin alluded to there isn't much advantage to be had here. Celestial Alignment's positives can be exploited; this is just a hard reset that drags out the game and/or forces you to double-down on the ramp to get back up to speed.
R - Going the Prime route is a great idea; kind of upset I didn't think of it first. That said Xavius Prime should not produce Dream cards, unless it is explicitly Nightmare. It's a major disconnect to the whole flavor. I would not be against something as simple as "Add three copies of Nightmare to your hand", to try and extend for lethal, although I imagine there are more creative things to do with it.
AeroJulwin - I think the card is neat, but I wonder if I would ever use it. Theoretically the Druid wouldn't be as punished because ramp can mitigate the cost, but I wonder if such a thing would make more sense in the Warlock. That or some other class that can burn through its deck faster; lets you screw with your opponent without hurting yourself as much. If your deck is slower, you have more to lose from this.
Wailor - My concern with this effect is that you would just use it to guarantee someone's death: if they're low on Health they literally can't do anything but skip their turn and await your lethal hit. Fever Dream is especially bad because you can cast it twice in a round for double the trouble. Xavius might be fine, given it's an expensive Legendary, but it's definitely not a fun card to be around IMO.
BasilAnguis - Immune is dangerous; always makes me nervous. Two turns is a lot, as well. I don't know, it just seems like a small downside when you can turn off like a token or something small for what could be a major play.
TheHoax91 - It's certainly an interesting idea: you would naturally play this last in a turn, after doing what damage you can. I think it might seem unintuitive for some, and that could cost you points.
The Era of Flesh Has Ended - A Full Guide to Mecha'thun Warlock on the Wildest of Wednesdays
https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/mechathun-warlock-118-legend-合纵连横-wild-s83/
For the record, thanks. Might be viable still, who knows. Only much linear, with no plans B and C and loses hard to Rat
The Era of Flesh Has Ended - A Full Guide to Mecha'thun Warlock on the Wildest of Wednesdays
Could be talking about the Dollmaster Dorian + Plot Twist, Bloodbloom + Cataclysm combo. I think the Bloom nerf killed that.
At launch of Barrens a list similar to this one that ran Hemet could win by turn 8 if you had the Coin and got lucky draws. Same idea: 0 mana minion, Shadow Hunter to swap with the only other minion in your hand, Mecha’thun, and then Cataclysm. 9 mana total for the combo turn. Just had to make sure you didn’t play Hemet until after you draw a 0 mana minion.
Shudder Freeze Shaman
Played a deck like this with a few alterations and absolutely breezed Diamond to Legend this month, went 22-3 with it. Deck felt incredibly OP if im being honest. Heals/Armour to keep you alive, decks that want the board you can freeze over and over again and rats to help you with combo decks
Does each region have enough of an identity?
For what it's worth, I think you're right about how the Riot design philosophy works here - Champions are about fulfilling a particular fantasy regardless of their region. I guess it's a big part of why I got frustrated with the game, but for folks that have no issue with that, the game is probably totally reasonable.
As far as I'm concerned, if it were just Champions in isolation that broke the regional identites, it might be fine. But Champions often need Followers that directly support their unique game plan in order to work (e.g. the Diana and Nocturne need a lot of Nightfall units to work, and Rek'Sai's payoff is worthless if your deck isn't full of Lurkers). The result is that huge chunks of expansions are dedicated not to the core regional identities of regions, but to the Champions' identities.
Nightmare On Emerald Street - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
That being said, the Prime effect isn't very interesting to me. It already exists on Ysera the Dreamer and why Dream cards? Isn't Xavius suppose to be on the opposite side?
However, I just don't think it's very appealing. It's effectively a hard reset, which makes the match progress very slowly and will remove the advantage of any extra mana crystals Druid is so fond of getting.
I am a human. You are a robot.
I think how offended people get by my posts really speaks volumes. I'm using a few literary techniques to annunciate a point. Satire, repetition, avant garde. Please take with a grain of salt.
Yes, fun IS subjective but when my sort of fun is being oppressed I feel I have all rights coming out swinging like this.
let's try an example as you would rather me state it:
"Oh jeez man I rly don't like how these easy to play decks are everywhere. It'd make the game better if ppl played more interesting decks like burgle rogue"
Do you see how ineffective and tired that paragraph is? Why not just enjoy the show? Are you really that easily offended? My point is valid if insulting but should be worth thinking about.
Or maybe Trump, Kibler, Regis and many more are wrong too...
Card Design Conversation - Zero Regrets
You fell right into my trap!
It might be unnecessaryly complicated, but I phrased that sentence like this on purpose: If 2023 finds Shadows happy and healthy, that means that 2022 has been a good year for them ;-)
I am a human. You are a robot.
Honestly, you should really stop starting threads like these. I'm not even sure if this is a serious attempt to start a discussion anymore or one of those opportunities to point someone to the Salt Thread. I give you the benefit of the doubt and take it as an invitation to debate netdecking, but as several people have told you before: check your manners mate. You can't expect us to happily exchange opinions with you when you start the discussion with such a haughty tone that borders on insult. And don't come back at me again with that freedom of speech stuff, it's not like your threads get locked (yet?). I for one won't reply to your rants anymore if you don't improve your choice of words.
Card Design Conversation - Zero Regrets
That's quite some foresight you got there. But don't forget about 2022, the year that we're about to get into. *insert tongue out emoticon*
Nightmare On Emerald Street - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
What's really difficult is trying to come up with something that makes sense for the competition, but at the same time, not going against the core philosophies of how Druid cards are designed. Some designs I can think of in my mind that make sense are like "oh, that's kinda cool, but... it I can't break that weakness of Druid."
Nonetheless, I did manage to get something out that doesn't fall into that trap.
Card Design Conversation - Zero Regrets
Thank you for all your work and dedication Shadows. May 2023 find you happy and healthy!
Does each region have enough of an identity?
You are not wrong on that, you can translate a champions ability in way that stay true to region identity, it's exactly what they did with LeBlanc.
In league Leblanc is a squishy burst mage who either one shot you or die so her LOR equivalent has high power with quick attack and low health, they also made her a combat oriented to fit within Noxus play style. The thing is most of the player base hated that design even dubbing her Lebland, because the majority of the player base care more about the champion fulfilling a certain power fantasy than how honest they are to a region identity.
That's why region identity for me at very least is tied more to the generic tool that a region have rather than the champions themselves. So if they release a champion like Urgot for example and made him a very good combat centric unit which is something that P&Z isn't supposed to be good at, that wouldn't bother me but if they start releasing a bunch a good generic combat centric cards that any P&Z deck could use then that would a problem.
Anyway that my personal view on the subject.